Reply #17: Some replies

[supernova]

Some replies:

Just because something is theorised to have been philosophically based on another belief does not mean that its progenitor is required to be around after it has been fully developed.

It's not a requirement, exactly. For me personally, with the passage of time, I tend to think of Xtainity and Judaism as faith siblings, related by a common history and growing in parallel lives. The central characters in the xtian narrative are all Jews, afterall. I think of this analogy: Xtianity and Judaism are two kids in the back seat sort of arguing about whom their mutual parent loves best. God is behind the wheel saying "Stop it! I love you equally!" LOL!

Christians do not need Jews to be around. At least not to form the core of their belief.

Actually, I argue that we do need it. Though not many will admit it. I tend to find that in a lot of churches there is little to no incentive to learn the history of the church. WHere it came from. Where the central ideas came from, how they developed over time. Who the first xtains were (mostly Jews and Greek pagans). That there was a variety of thought in the early church. The notion of Jesus's divinity was entirely up for grabs, for example. In some cases, Jesus and his camp have been stripped of their Jewishness, sanitized for our protection. If you go to sunday school, you hear they went to "temple" without relating it to the fact that there are present-day Jews also go to temple and belong to a synagogue. Or that one of the pet names for Jesus was "Rebbe", "teacher."

It's getting better in the Presby church, I hear more of this discourse now than I did when I was young. But I'd like to see more. In fact I hunger for it. I have no idea what the fundamentalist churches are teaching on this aspect. Honestly, even here in the bible belt, I don't know anyone who is fundamentalist.

Part of this is in any modern church, there is a natural emphasis on the here and now. You get caught up in the day to day runnings of the church (who's on what committee, are we meeting our budget?, I hate that hymn!) the institution, rather than more activities designed to let you, the individual, contemplate your navel about the nature of God. Being an individualist who rather enjoys the one-on-one experience, that is an aspect of the modern church I struuggle with.

Anyway, after getting OT, I think if xtians did study more about Judaism, it would help to highlight our own theology and provide more of a context in which to place xtianity, rather than letting people grow up with the idea that Xtianity is the "most special religion, ever," and the spiritual chauvanism that can come with it.

It is an irony of history that the fate of the Jews was written into the prophesized ends times of the Christian bible. Thus they had a reason not to eradicate them. Thus they survive.

Like the poster above, I'm not so sure this is tied strictly to religion. It might just be a cultural thing on the part of northern Europeans with a drive for empire. There is little evidence of hate crimes against the Jews in Europe until the Crusades. The two ideas seemed to be linked somehow. Also, if we learned more about how xtainity formed, I think there would be a lot less vitriol all the way around.

edit: Also, Revelation is John's private "sleep depravation and extreme isolation diary" is how one poster put it. I think that's apt. I tend to leave John with his own personal torment. Personally, I don't think much of end times theology. And I think the current focus on it is sick.

I would also say that this isn't limited strictly to Christianity. Human history is filled with examples of one idea supplanting another. The alphabet supplanted the oral tradition. The wheel supplanted the horse and oxen. Agriculture supplanted namadic hunting and gathering. It's possible that at some point in the future Christianity or Islam will spawn their own spin-off religions.