Reply #44: articles of faith are articles of faith

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yes, there is one god and you shan't accept others before me is as much an article of faith as Jesus Christ is lord, or there is one god and Muhammad is his prophet. Revelatory religions are unique in how they exclude people from other faiths.

That said... not all Christians (I find it odd I have to point this out since I am not one) are that exclusive. For that matter not all Jews are like that or Muslims (just dealing with the three major revelatory religions)... but the fundies among them are.

There is a role for the righteous and a path to salvation for those who are not Christian in some Christian denominations. What bothers me is that a significant group of Christians do not recognize either good works... (yes Christ made those central in the new testament... will deal with who wrote it in a second)... were central, or that the righteous can achieve salvation without the revelation. The revelation just helps... but if you are a righteous person you too can be saved. It is a very JEWISH concept and given that Christ was a Rabbi in the classic sense of the word... it should surprise none. Just Gentiles were seen among Jews as just as righteous as Jews... well there is this little dark secret that Judaism did not have a sense of hell, in the classic sense either... so that is fairly recent for jews that is.

As to who wrote it... the old testament, we know this now, was commissioned by one of the late kings... and a minor one at that. We know it was written by four groups of people... and you can see it in the stylistic differences. The first character mentioned in it that can distantly be called historical is david... and he was no king, but a clan leader.

The New Testament, we know it was written anywhere from 100 to 300 years after the fact... and in fact there were far more books than entered the Canon at Nicea... my personal favorite is one by that lady who was a prostitute and was a member of apostles... I have no idea why the Council would like to suppress that one... nope not a one. But the Essenes had a point there... and the faith would have gone in a very different direction if they prevailed.


There was a very valid reason for the reformation. Yes the corruption of the apostolic church was legend (some might argue still is) but I find it of interest that things like a wealthy man cannot go through the eye of a needle to get into heaven has been replaced with... wealth indicates salvation, since the saved are chosen to lead us... and wealth is the true indicator of it.

I am also amused that a large minority truly has ignored the almost commandment for good works, which are part of the morals of the church, with deep ties to actually ancient Judaism...

But some of this... like the law was given to the people at Sinai by God, or these books were revealed by god... are matters of faith, and you cannot argue faith.

I know that my life path has taken me increasingly away from any belief in god... but I still find the HISTORY of all of this damn fascinating. I also know that if we have another bout of antisemitism... it ain't gonna matter what I personally believe in. But to me the actual history is far more fascinating than the mythology.