Reply #37: And you still can’t answer a straight question-

[ironbark]

And any minute now your going to actually answer a prior point question and tell us how the fuck a psychologist is going to gain insight from a client and reach for his diagnostic DSM WITHOUT HAVING FIRST ESTABLISHED A > “therapeutic relationship” <….????



“1/We're not talking about church or community here, we're talking about a therapist who should be actually doing his job. So that's bullshit on one count.”

Building community or establishing “therapeutic relationship” …you are on record as crapping on both propositions. Loudly and vigorously.
Your only interest/understanding of Welfare related issues resides in the opportunity to slap religion.
Beyond that you clearly do not know or care

Bullshit cover up one exposed.

“2/What I called "horseshit" was NOT the idea of surrogate community, but the idea that it could only be provided by church or faith communities. Bullshit on two counts.”

On atheism and charity. Darkstar3, 45#
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x243764#244307

“substitute surrogate community or some horseshit in there at will”

That’s you dismissing the very notion of ‘surrogate community’ as “horseshit”.

Bullshit cover up 2 fails.

“3/ I said the Fire Department, Police Department, and other public services WERE "front line" defense agencies, and that the church didn't qualify.”

Absolutely false.
In the context of a discussion on child protection you rejected any and all church >AGENCIES< (schools, foster care etc) as being in the front line of child protection and claimed-

“ the REAL role that protective agencies like police, fire, and EMT organizations’.

Priests abuse children at same rate as everyone else, Darkstar3, 125
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x244610#245417

And you never could or would explain how the Fire Brigade played any role in protecting children from child abuse.

“Your attempt to state simply that I believe the fire brigade will run down child beaters is bullshit on a third count.”

It’s right there in black and white, according to you church schools aren’t involved in child protection the “REAL role” belongs to the police and fire brigade.

Bullshit cover up 3 fails.

“When in doubt, spin and baffle with bullshit.”

Yea…But you keep getting caught out and exposed. So why bother?

“Moving on, don't forget that you accused ME of being the one to conflate psychology and general therapy….”

You can keep cutting/ignoring the obvious/valid “therapeutic relationship” commonality between psychology and general therapy/counselling…but it wont excuse or cover up your conflating and confusing the differing roles preformed or your crapping on the very notion of “therapeutic relationship” .

“Your ideas on counselling are so far outside the norm of what actual professional counselling and help really are,”

LOL.
Reduced so soon to the vague and oblique reference? “so far outside the norm” but you cannot/will not specify how or why?

And now instead of answering the points/questions raised you stoop to argument by projected assumption-
“… I can only assume your prior experience with counselling has been limited to pastors and church personnel.”

Yea Darkstar…They advised me that in cases of child abuse I should pray that you ring the REAL protective fire brigade.

“I find your example of the 14 yo ward of the state appalling. There is absolutely no reason that an adult counsellor should engage in wrestling or roughousing with a 14 yo boy in need of guidance and care.”

Ah huh. And I am in like manner appalled at your lack of insight, interest and understanding of what actually goes on in the welfare sector and what is required for the “guidance and care” of adolescents.
Pre planned structured and monitored “wrestling or roughhousing” can serve several therapeutic purposes.
You want the scientific insight/understanding of the principle?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsKPMBn6irE


“It violates the very tenets of leadership, credibility, authority, and objectivity needed in order to maintain a proper non-familial guidance relationship with the child.”

Bwahahahahahahaha!

Then you sit yourself down with your Psychologist armed with DSM and diagnose an abused adolescent State Ward with no adult male role model to healthy “non-familial” adulthood.
Good luck with that ;-)

“non-familial guidance relationship with the child”?
We tried that with children in orphanages at the turn of the century. Without the “familial” provision of a daily hug children under 12months simply die. Because they are not mechanistic materials that thrive on pure science…and nor are adolescent males.

Like I said. If there was any indication of any understanding or interest I would elaborate…but your only intent is to piss on notions you do not understand- surrogate community- therapeutic relationship.

“You are willfully ignorant of the professional nature required of all counsellors and therapists.”

You asked- “Do you deny that professional distance and objectivity are required of all counselors, sex- or otherwise?”

I answered and gave you the exception to the general rule. “non-familial guidance” is not always what the client seeks or needs.

“You are also willfully ignorant of the English language, consistently (and possibly deliberately) misreading sentences that go beyond an eigth grade reading level…”

As always- go for it. Cite, substantiate, provide example.

Spelling/grammar flame?
Ok.

In your two prior sentences you have wilfully as willfully and eighth as eigth and follow up in the next
Passage with favourite defence as favorite defense.

So do let me know when spelling/grammar becomes a hallmark of intellectual superiority.


“ I wasn't foisting someone else's POV onto you, which BTW seems to be your favorite defense claim...I was merely trying to illustrate for you the fact that the very arguments you so consistently trot out…”

Crap. You have had every opportunity to address what I have actually said on the issue of churches/charity/community across three+ threads. You flee that opportunity and throw up someone else’s pov AS IF it had anything to do with mine.
Cheap stunt and failed intellectually bankrupt gambit.