Reply #17: dare I add something?

[OnTheOtherHand]

Well, maybe two.

Amaryllis, obviously I come from a different starting place than you do, and that does not trouble me.

Wilms is absolutely right that this forum is public, but I would add a qualifier to the question about frames. It does not trouble me that folks feel they can frankly express here the view that the 2004 election was stolen, even if they would not use that argument in public presentations. I don't think Wilms intended to advocate self-censorship in the interest of "framing."

That said, I know that folks who make factual arguments are subject to personal attacks. I came to this forum because I was sick of watching Febble getting treated like a pinata. I don't really care much who believes what about the 2004 election, but I think we should make every effort to get our facts straight. And I really don't think that this board has the right to trash its own credibility the way that it too often does -- not because its members disagree about stuff, which I welcome, but because of how it handles disagreements.

Wilms, it is hard for me to overstate how much I agree with your basic point. I have tried to spend time both inside ER and in 'the outside world' so that I can report to each from the perspective of the other.