You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The Real DNC Rules about the FL/MI debacle are posted, and it gets very quiet. [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 05:44 AM
Original message
The Real DNC Rules about the FL/MI debacle are posted, and it gets very quiet.
Advertisements [?]
Edited on Tue Apr-29-08 05:47 AM by Tyler Durden
I've posted portions of "The Rules" several times, and every time I do, people stop posting. I'm assuming this is because they've read them, and notice that I've made an important point they can't refute.

Since then, I've let my anger with both campaigns be well known, and a whole new crop of "They violated The Rules!" ranters have stopped by to chat. So here it is, a "liberal" education in "The Rules."

Now if you want to rant, start your own thread. This is an education for those constantly saying "Michigan and Florida broke THE RULES." It's also an education for those constantly saying "Hillary Signed!" as there is nothing in the Rules about signing Anything. The only thing the Clinton Campaign signed was the Michigan redo plan that the Obama Campaign torpedoed 2 days before a deadline set by the Republican controlled Michigan Senate for consideration of the primary redo.

First off, The oft cited, and immortal DNC DELEGATE SELECTION RULES (their caps, not mine).

http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/de68e7b6dfa0743217_hwm6bhyc4.pdf

Now let's jump right to the meat of the issue, Rules 11 and 20.

First, the big one:

11. TIMING OF THE DELEGATE SELECTION PROCESS
A. No meetings, caucuses, conventions or primaries which constitute the first determining stage in
the presidential nomination process (the date of the primary in primary states, and the date of the
first tier caucus in caucus states) may be held prior to the first Tuesday in February or after the
second Tuesday in June in the calendar year of the national convention. Provided, however, that
the Iowa precinct caucuses may be held no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in
February; that the Nevada first-tier caucuses may be held no earlier than 17 days before the
first Tuesday in February; that the New Hampshire primary may be held no earlier than 14
days before the first Tuesday in February; and that the South Carolina primary may be held
no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February. In no instance may a state which
scheduled delegate selection procedures on or between the first Tuesday in February and the
second Tuesday in June 1984 move out of compliance with the provisions of this rule.


Hey, seems a lot of states broke this rule. And where is the "waiver clause" allowing deviation? You guessed it: there isn't one. So all five states have broken the letter of this rule, and the actual result of their machinations actually changed nothing: IA, NH and SC all got their "ME FIRST!" ego trip as usual.


Now the payoff:

Rule 20.C. 1. a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party
provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes
the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior
to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the
event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after
such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to
the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by
fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty
(50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National
Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from
that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state’s delegation. In
determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state’s
delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the
nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the
next nearest whole number.


If you're having a problem wading through this, the gist is that a state violating Rule 11 is subject to having its delegates reduced by 50%. NOT 100%. There is even a formula for resolving fractional portions of a delegate. Note that there is No Exception in this clause for Any State violating Rule 11, which means that IA, NH, and SC SHOULD have the same penalty as MI and FL. The absurdity of the 100% punishment is shown in the next paragraph:


b. A presidential candidate who campaigns in a state where the state party is in
violation of the timing provisions of these rules, or where a primary or caucus is
set by a state’s government on a date that violates the timing provisions of these
rules, may not receive pledged delegates or delegate votes from that state.
Candidates may, however, campaign in such a state after the primary or caucus
that violates these rules. “Campaigning” for purposes of this section includes,
but is not limited to, purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that
reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring
campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; holding news
conferences; coordinating volunteer activities; sending mail, other than
fundraising requests that are also sent to potential donors in other states; using
paid or volunteer phoners or automated calls to contact voters; sending emails or
establishing a website specific to that state; holding events to which Democratic
voters are invited; attending events sponsored by state or local Democratic
organizations; or paying for campaign materials to be used in such a state. The
Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are
covered by this section.

So any candidate who performs any of the following:

"purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that
reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring
campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; holding news
conferences; coordinating volunteer activities; sending mail, other than
fundraising requests that are also sent to potential donors in other states; using
paid or volunteer phoners or automated calls to contact voters; sending emails or
establishing a website specific to that state; holding events to which Democratic
voters are invited; attending events sponsored by state or local Democratic
organizations; or paying for campaign materials to be used in such a state. The
Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are
covered by this section."

in FLORIDA has violated the Punishment Clause. But wait...why is there any mention of this at all? ALL the delegates have been disallowed. But that's not what clause a. says, and if that's true then why are IA, NH and SC absolved? What's this WAIVER shit? None of that in the "Rules."

So you see, any blaming of FL, MI or their Legislators is moot, because if you hold them accountable, then IA, NH and SC are accountable, EVEN THOUGH THE ORDER OF PRIMARIES NEVER CHANGED.

So lay off with the "HILLARY SIGNED THIS OR THAT." Read the rules, show me where this unequal and unfair treatment of Michigan is allowed.

But you know something? All of THAT is moot. The two campaigns could have Solved this: the agreement was there on the table in Michigan. Team Clinton signed. The Party Signed. Team Obama Rescinded their agreement made on the previous Sunday on Tuesday with a Thursday deadline. So no new primary.

Now if you say "Well they broke the rules," you're right, but if you support the penalty, then you're wrong.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC