Reply #30: I agree with a lot of what you say here

[Tom Rinaldo]

And your position about "bluffing" and accepting the resultant consequence about being lied to as part of that process is refreshingly candid. That might be easier for me to swallow, as distateful as it inherently is, if I did not fear that there are too many true believers in both parties who are not bluffing when they take that position. I don't think those who express such sentiments inside Israel are bluffing (unless their hawks are amazingly better poker players than virtually all Americans - they sure would have me fooled in that case) and I doubt that their supporters here in the U.S. are bluffing either. Cheney I am sure is not bluffing. The PNAC agenda has been fixed for a decade.

Meanwhile I strongly agree with your statement regarding diplomacy and the positive funciton that pushing the Bush Administration into even a half assed effort now would serve. And yes we have been woefully short of carrots throughout the Bush Administation, and over supplied with sticks.