Reply #153: OK, but

[forgethell]

how many Bill Clintons does this party have? 1!! and he can't run again. Hilary will be no substitute.

Clinton, despite his faults, had a lot of charm. The same cannot be said for any other Democrat that I can see. When you say "framed" and "talked about differently" what you are saying is "misled", or even "lied". Remember "He kept the promises he meant to keep"?

That is to say, despite what many, maybe most, people on this board think, "rural" is not the same as "stupid, and neither is "conservative", "Southerner", or "pro-life". They remember, and nobody likes being talked down to.

"Framing" will not work for people who look at actions rather than words. They are interested in the results, not explanations or excuses. We have values, they have values. And the smart ones look to see how their values are being treated.

But as you say, abortion is not the only issue that "rural" people are concerned about. High taxes (in their opinion), gay-marriage, run-away courts, national security, etc. As a lone liberal in a conservative workplace, I talk to these folks alot, and I pretty well know what they think, and why they think it. They prefer the issues be addressed head-on, and frankly, so do I. We disagree with each other, but we know where we stand and remain friends. "Framing" seems too much like 1984 for my tastes.

"Focus" now. I like that. I think we should talk about the issues that we think are important, and try to keep our attention, and theirs, on them. Always remembering, of course, that their issues are as important to them as ours are to us.

Let me ask you this: Would we give up our positions on the social issues if we could get our way on the economic ones? Well, I would, myself, because, as I have stated previously, I am an economic Democrat. But most here wouldn't. And that's fine. But then, why do we expect social conservatives to cave for their own economic benefit, if we wouldn't do it?

I don't really know the answer as to why we don't win elections, but I suspect it has a lot to do with pushing the social envelop faster, not further than we should.