Reply #85: Here's what I don't understand...

[Fokker Trip]

What does Israel see as the endgame to all of this?

People on both sides debate and fight about who did what to whom. I have my own opinions, but they are just that...opinions.

The realities as far as I can tell are these.

-The only reason Israel can be as belligerant as it is is because of the money and weapons that the US supplies them with each year. Without this money and these weapons Israel would have no recourse but to negotiate with the people who live in neighboring countries and with the Palestinians.

-The US empire is winding down...there will be no lasting recovery as there are no underpinnings to allow one. Things are going to get a lot worse for the majority of Americans and its hard to see how they will get better. It will very likely come to a point where the US experiences hyper-inflation or massive deflation and under these conditions will the aid that goes to Israel really be a high priority? Will the US public go along with that?

-Israel only seems to be getting more determined in its aggression and is alienating large swaths of the public worldwide who had previously supported the "self-defense" meme.

-Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that orthodox Jews in Israel are having a lot more kids than secular/non-orthodox Jews. At the same time my understanding is that orthodox Jews don't serve in the army as part of their beliefs. The settlers who carry guns must be the equivalent of the army when it comes to orthodox Jews defending themselves(?). As time goes by it will be more and more a case of fundamentalists running the country and the armed forces (its already largely that way)

At the same time the Palestinians are having way more kids than anyone in Israel is and as these kids are born in what are essentially prison camps they are not well adjusted and happy kids. I would think that they grow up feeling rather angry at Israel. They too are becoming fundamentalists.

-No other country in the world will/can step into the shoes of the US in regards to Israel.

So what does the Israeli government see as the endgame to all of this? Is it the forced deportation of all the Palestinians? is it the slow extermination of the Palestinians?

If the Palestinians renounced all aggression would Israel really lighten up on them? After all the vitriol and rhetoric?

I've read about the "Samson option", where Israel would blow itself and its neighbors up with nukes if it looked like they were going to be overrun, but what else is likely to happen in the end?. Israel seems to have a siege mentality but how does that work in a small country with really limited resources? Surely starting to de-escalate the situation is in the best interests of everyone

If Israel did ever use nukes the Israeli people would die in droves...there isn't enough space there to escape all of the fallout and other effects of nuclear detonations. As well they would become a pariah in the world and with the US empire greatly diminished or gone the US could not do much to help them.

The way the situation is now can go on for quite some time yet, but the one constant in the world is that everything changes over time and the trends don't look good for Israel if it continues on its present course. The knee-jerk reaction to ANY questions that are raised regarding what Israel does indicate that Ideology is becoming more important than reality to the Israeli leadership and its supporters.

Can anyone paint a picture for me of what they think the next 30 to 50 years will look like for Israel and the Palestinians?

I fully support Israels right to exist..but its like watching a friend leave your house in some way impaired and get behind the wheel of a car...there's a good chance things won't go well for that person. Surely Israels supporters are just a little worried about whats going to happen over time.

It seems to me that everyone involved is always just reacting with little thought to the future. But the facts are what they are and they will assert themselves regardless of what people wish for or argue over.