Reply #57: the originals from 1948 are refugees, their children are not

[shira]

I don’t wish to cast a damper on your hilarity, but where exactly did I imply that?

You imply that well before 1920, when there was some slim chance of a Jewish homeland being somewhere else in 1905 or 1910 that Jewish leadership nixed the idea b/c they were a bit more interested in disenfranchising the indigenous people of Palestine under Ottoman rule. Therefore, the Jews of that time thought they could pull a fast one over on the Ottoman Empire, maybe defeat them militarily, take Israel by force.

:eyes:

You ask “Then what explains the 1967 war?”...Do you really want to go into Israel’s attack on Egypt?...What relevance has it to Palestinian hostility caused by the occupation?

What does Israel's attack on Egypt have to do with anything? You believe Israel should have waited until their civilian population centers were bombed first? Israel didn't attack Jordan first....and that's what resulted in the W.Bank being taken. The point is, you believe regional Arabs would be less hostile to Israel if there wasn't an occupation - and you know that's a dumb, false assertion.

First - The Palestinians wishing to return to their villages are not immigrants – they are returning refugees with all the international rights associated with being refugees….You comparing them to African and Asian immigrants is an insult to them.

Palestinians from 1948 are refugees, not their children - they'd be immigrants, don't you agree? And there wouldn't be refugees had there not been an Arab war of aggression against Israel in 1948. Many chose to split due to Arab pressure, but many also chose remain in Israel and are still there.

Second – Many of the olim since 1980 have been from Europe and the Bronx – hardly places where Jews are being persecuted… They would not seem to qualify as “persecuted and homeless Jews”.

True, but what do you do with those who are persecuted and homeless? Right, they're shit outta luck in your world view.

You are correct in that most countries give preference to people with an ancestral connection to the country concerned….Israel however, does the exact opposite…It gives no preference to those people whose forefathers were born there and in fact has declared they will never have a right to live in Israel.

You know the only reason they REMAIN refugees and that's not Israel's fault. I asked before, why didn't you answer - why have they remained refugees the past 61 years? Why weren't they absorbed into other countries as all other refugees from that far back in history?

I ask you again - Why does Israel do this?...Is it simply to ensure that the Jewish race remains dominant in Israel?

Yeah, that's it....has nothing to do with historical persecution, that's so yesterday and doesn't happen anymore.

I have made it clear that Balfour was wrong to force Palestinians to accept unlimited Zionist immigration…The 1939 white paper made some attempt to recover the situation but failed to offer refugee Jews sanctuary in other parts of the world.

So would you have voted in favor of the 1939 british white paper? Yes or No?

I would expect world Jewry to condemn the restrictions on immigration imposed by the USA, etc but for some reason they do not do so….Why?

condemn the USA's immigration policy regarding Jews or all people? I don't understand the question.

I might have guessed that your idea of re-paying this debt would be to simply offer them a small part of their own land and agree that they could have sovereignty (limited!) which they would have had anyway if the Zionists had not forced themselves onto Palestine.

right, zionists - meaning jews - forced themselves onto Palestine during Ottoman rule in some conspiracy to overthrow the Turks and steal Palestine from them. :eyes:

oh, but maybe you mean 1920's- 1930's immigration....by then there was already Int'l consensus on a Jewish homeland there. No zionists 'forcing' themselves onto Palestine, but rather immigration BASED ON that Int'l consensus (League of Nations decision).

Remind me never to rescue a drowning Israeli – He’d probably end up stealing my boat and then think he was repaying his debt by tossing me the life belt!

you typify the mindset of the most hardline Arab leadership.....this conflict will NEVER be resolved if you cannot in any way admit that the Jews' claim to Israel is as legitimate and just as Palestinian claims. Reminds me of Arafat denying the Jewish Temple ever existed in Jerusalem - in an effort to show that Jews have ZERO claims to the land. Or those who say Jews are really Khazars and not the descendents of Jews who have always lived in Israel. Helps when they make their claims about jews "stealing" land...they're thieves because they're not really Jews, it was never their land, there was no Temple, etc. You're no different from them.

Some challenge!.....Like any other state, Israel has an obligation to allow refugees to return to their homes…..It has consistently failed to do so and that is why after 61 years they are still in refugee camps.

Refugees have been absorbed into other countries the past 61 years but the Palestinian problem is different - why?

You think Palestinians are still in refugee camps WITHIN gaza and the w.bank due to Israel, after BILLIONS of dollars have been given to PA leadership the past 2 decades? With those billions, Palestinian refugees in Gaza and the W.Bank could be living in their own settlements by now. But they're still refugees, just like Palestinians in Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq.