Reply #68: missing the point

[iverglas]

A restraining order is a piece of paper with ink on it. All it provides is a quick and easy way to have the restrainee arrested if he or she violates it. Judges and lawyers and cops all acknowledge that it's a weak instrument, and too often becomes applicable only after something bad has happened.

Huh, that's not all a restraining order does in the fairytale land I live in.

It generally comes complete with a firearms prohibition order, authorizing police to seize firearms in the possession of the person against whom the order is made.

That being pretty much the point I already made.

I think you are making a huge leap of faith assuming that lack of a firearm would have prevented this particular crime.

I'm very sure that I didn't assume, or state that I assumed, any such thing.

I can name a number of factors that plainly make it reasonable to think that there is a good chance that the killings would not have happened absent a firearm. And I did.

You haven't presented any evidence other than your own conjecture to support the - Wild-assed guess? - that he wouldn't have sought and promptly found some other way of killing her.

The fact that I know what I'm talking about makes what I think about what might have happened absent a firearm something quite different from a wild-assed guess, unfortunately for you.

A really really quick google would help you learn some of the things I know. Here's an easy example:

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001376.htm

The findings in this investigation should be interpreted with caution because the sample size was limited and restricted to homicides in six urban areas and because the sample size was further reduced as a function of the number of offenders who could be included in the study. In addition, this study investigated homicides between family members, relatives, or friends, and the results may not be generalizable to other types of homicide. However, the results from this investigation are useful in planning future investigations of possible risk factors for firearm-associated homicide among family members, relatives, or friends. In particular, several findings from this investigation suggest that the homicide was an impulsive act committed with a readily accessible firearm: in the majority of homicides, the offender and/or victim had consumed alcohol and/or drugs before the incident; approximately half the offenders fired the weapon within 15 seconds of brandishing it; approximately half the offenders did not intend to shoot the victims when they drew the weapon; and a substantial proportion of firearms used in these homicides were kept loaded and in an unlocked location.

These are non-drug-dealer cases, y'see.

And another:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourceBook/executiveSummary.htm

Firearms are weapons with significant killing potential. As a result, the availability of a firearm is more likely to escalate the consequences of impulsive interpersonal anger, or thoughts of suicide, into death or serious injury. Of the major firearm types, handgun use accounts for the majority of human death and injury.

... Firearm injuries pose a particularly large threat to life and limb, thereby requiring continued advances in medical services. The increasing prevalence of handgun use, especially semi-automatic weapons, has changed wounding patterns, resulting in multiple wounds and higher death rates. ...

Efficient. Effective. Low risk.

The whole document, worth some reading: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/FirearmInjuryResourceBook.pdf

http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/en/research/other_docs/factsheets/suicide/default.asp

In the context of research on homicide, given an attack, firearms are more likely to result in serious injury and death than if another weapon is used. Firearm attacks are about three times more likely to result in death than knife attacks and many times more likely to be lethal than attacks involving other methods.

You see?? It just is *not* as easy to kill someone without a gun. And *I* really don't talk out of *my* ass. My agenda is based on the facts; I don't have to twist facts to fit an agenda.

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