Reply #174: Let me break your illusion ...

[RoyGBiv]

You're not a nice guy. That's not an insult. It's an observation.

Here's a clue. A cad who tells the truth is still a cad.

When you start asking for advice about women, and two dozen women tell you that you're being insulting, to be mild, just by the way you ask the question, and you respond to that criticism with passive-aggressive pleas for pity for being truthful, that does not make you a nice guy. A nice guy examines his own behavior and modifies it without having to be beaten about the head and ears.

Nothing in your written behavior in this thread in any way indicates you are one of the "nice guys" of song and story. Your language does not indicate any sense of your having an ability to maintain genuine intimacy, understand anything about a woman's feelings, or actually give pleasure. I assume you've heard the phrase that the mind is the most powerful sexual organ? This is not a trite saying. It is a fact. Learn what that means, and you might be on your way to understanding why your words here have irritated just about everyone.

Let me be more direct. You are inept with women because you see them as conquests. You view sexual intimacy as "getting some." (Have you ever read anything by Betty Friedan or one of her contemporaries? Try doing so, and *maybe* you'll understand why that phrase, whether you call it an ordeal or not, is incredibly insulting, or to be more blunt, sexist. Or better yet, listen to what the women in this forum are telling you.) You view a massage as "settling" for less than you want, and you're pissed because you can't even get that, so you ask for advice about why women won't let you grope them when you really, really, really will "settle" for "only" a massage if that's "all" they will allow you to do. You want, you need. You have to have, but (pout, pout - poor, poor me) are willing to settle.

Did you ever, once, stop to think what the woman wants? Let me tell you what she wants. She wants to be respected as a person, not a conquest, not some blob of flesh from which you "get" something to achieve your goal. She doesn't want you to plant a flag on her, and she doesn't want your shaking, sweating palms burning with lust running across her skin when she's had a really hard day and really just wants to relax with someone who understands, or at least tries to understand what she is feeling in her soul.

Here's a thought experiment. Let's say you're a completely straight male who lusts after women. Let's say you know a homosexual male who is very sexually attracted to you, is constantly flirting with you, and always throwing off body language that indicates your mere presence makes him feel all warm and bubbly. Let's say you two are alone one night. You've been talking, having a nice time. He moves a little closer to you, smiles an awkward smile, and says, "Hey, can I give you a massage?" You hesitate, so he adds, in a breathy, stammering voice, "I promise, if that's all you want, I'll settle for that." You can see him blush.

What do you do?