Reply #91: wishes and frames

[Iverson]

QuestioningStudent, as I noted in the response title, my scan of your argument was very brief, so my reservations about it should hardly be taken as conclusive. However, your defense of those points I did bring up seems tragically flawed. To summarize:

"legitimacy would be an objectively establishable characteristic"

This is wishful thinking. Legitimacy is a subjective abstraction by its very nature. Even if one applied a reliable measuring device, it too would be bound by the subjective preferences of those who establish it.

"I would say that legitimacy would also to a certain extent exist on a spectrum as well"

Glad you see this.

"the legitimacy of a republic may be called into question if it begins impinging upon the freedoms and liberties of its citizens..."

I assume that you mean a government, not a republic, lest every non-republic suddenly become the target of Operation Enduring Apocalypse. However, in any case this is insufficient since governments and laws by definition impinge upon freedoms and liberties of at least some citizens.

"permanence would have to be resolved on a matter of practicality"

This too is a fine abstraction, but it is easy to see that practicality is a subjective measure, and there may be important differences between practicality for an occupying power, an occupied power, and third parties.

"I would not say my argument rationalizes the whole '(m)ight makes right' idea ..."

That may not be the intent, but since you have presented it in your title as an argument in favor of the current invasion, we must all take it as such. That's the context.

Your search for justifying criteria could have been answered, at least in part, by those very institutions we've been undermining (e.g.- Constitution, UN Charter). Our invasion didn't meet those criteria, but they were things upon which many people agreed once upon a time.

I also caution that framing your question in terms of logical fallacies does not exclude other meaningful criteria. I could discuss logical fallacies all day, but the most compelling idea to me is this notion, also a subjective one, of civilization. There is very little in the way of a logical process that can convince me that killing distant civilians is wise and just.