Reply #180: I think these kinds of lawsuits are important

[Cats Against Frist]

This is one of those sticky situations, like after-school, non-school-organized prayer groups, or Christmas decorations, where culture, and religion and the state are all intermingled.

I agree that the crosses should not be displayed on public property. Those who are arguing otherwise forget that the crosses being there in the first place like "in God We Trust," are already victories -- not for those of "common sense," but of religious zealotry.

There is no "middle ground." You're either a secular state, or you're not. In the case of the after-school prayer groups, they can fully be organized without the school's permission. A church can park a bus across the street, and shuttle the kids to a church, for their program. There is a way around it, without having it have to be endorsed by the state -- and the children who wish to participate still have the option of attending a prayer group. The problem is, this ISN'T what the fundies and evangelicals want. They want prayer in school, they want a non-secular state.

I was reading, in the "when freepers send their kids to public school" thread, the signs of "revisionist" history, which was basically more lies and propaganda, by the freep side. While it is true that "more" of the founders were Anglican, Orthodox Christian, etc. (rather than the clearly deistic Jefferson, Paine and Franklin), the ideology behind our nation WAS fully born out of the tradition of deism, and the idea of a "natural god," from Rousseau, and the Enlightenment theories and writings. The Declaration of Independence speaks only of a "Creator," and the Constitution only mentions that those serving should not have to pass a religious test.

This nation was meant to be a secular nation, wherein people could turn to whichever religion that they liked, for guidance. Tradition has long dictated that Christianity is given a favorable position, but that doesn't mean that that was necessarily the founders' intentions. Like slavery, the decisions made, at the time, were products of the time.

It is never wrong to push back against religious zealotry, no matter how much "ammo" it gives the "other side." Each victory that they have, further cements the superiority of Christianity -- THEIR Christianity, of the time -- which is an odd, fascist amalgam of some biblical mysticism, consumerism, racial supremacism and nationalism. This must always be pushed back against, no matter how small or "insignificant" the battle might seem.

Remember, Christianity should die the death it deserves, and will -- the patriarchal oppression of the religion, as well as the philosophies of "order," are merely pushing back, against the Enlightenment, which has won -- which IS winning. We are being tested by our founders, as we sit here and breathe. Questioning these things are necessary to keep people from forgetting, and letting these constructs of order and mythos from crushing the possibilities of the human mind.