Reply #85: So your opposition is only based on ideological, existential reasons, then?

[conturnedpro09]

First, 'Squatch' is a true patriot who is doing the right thing. The war he fights is good, just, and necessary. While I understand that there is a branch here on the Left that will always see war through the paradigm of money/greed/corporations, I am with (what I believe is) the majority of Democrats that give our uses of force a fairer look. In the case of our continued mission in Afghanistan, it is truly, as TIME magazine put it, "the right war."

Second, as I said in my subject line, it seems that your rationale for steadfast opposition is based on existential reasons. You, along with many others here, clearly, utterly despise the concepts of "American empire," "US imperialism," "war profiteering," "puppet governments," etc., etc., etc. That's totally fine. For the most part, I cringe at these ideas too.

But don't kid yourself by thinking that our mission in World War II had absolutely no financial interests in mind, nor any ideas of global hegemony in mind either. That's nonsense. Of course it did, and that's okay! Because good, just, and necessary things took place. A fascist empire was destroyed. An imperialist emperor was dethroned. The notion of an Aryan race ruling the world was thrown into the trashheap of history. And dozens of satanic death camps were liberated.

And if opposing the achieving of US interests (yes, that may include financial interests combined with others) is your criteria for opposing war, then for the sake of shunning hypocrisy, please tell us that you would've opposed WWII as well. I'd sincerely appreciate the intellectual consistency and honesty, I would just shutter at what our world would look like had it all gone your way. :scared:

In Afghanistan, extreme social injustice ran amok for years. An extremist, fundamentalist government ran the country and oversaw a society deprived of even the simplest notion of human rights. There are many books on the Taliban that you can read by liberal, conservative, and nonpoltical authors that describe the conditions of the people under the Taliban's rule and rules. Simply put, it was pure hell.

And on top of the brutal treatment of its people, the Taliban gave great support and sanctuary to a network of killers we all know as al Qaeda. This group of monsters grew in global strength, power, and influence while being harbored by the Taliban. Their vision for the world based on the perversion of the otherwise peaceful, noble, and fascinating world religion of Islam went unquestioned during this time. They often made clear of their murderous intentions, and regretably, nobody listened.

Then came 9/11. And the rest is history. And hopefully, because of a surge in Afghanistan, all the remnants of the Taliban and al Qaeda will be as well.

And if a free, democratic, somewhat secular Afghanistan that ensures the basic rights of its people and opposes terrorism remains our new ally, so what?! What is bad about that? Nothing really, nothing at all.

If some here are fine with young Muslim girls being forced to keep their faces hidden as long as the "American empire" doesn't grow and (to quote Peace Patriot) "circumvent Iran/Russia" in the favor of the US, then I truly hope that they do not openly call themselves liberals or Democrats. Surely the likes of JFK and FDR and Obama would be thankful.

Peace Patriot also states, "The war on Afghanistan has nothing to do with 9/11! There is no one we can kill in Afghanistan that will make us 'safe.' No one!"

This is true for Iraq, which is why most of the free world (at least the people if not the governments) rightfully opposed our invasion of it. The aforementioned statement on Afghanistan, however, is only true if you find ideological reasons to force yourself to believe it. Luckily, most just don't. Including President Obama.

So Squatch, with all due respect to 'Peace Patriot,' I'm sure you know that most of your fellow citizens back home don't hold his/her worldview and that while overseas, you and the rest of our men and women in combat just ought to ignore it. :patriot:

(Oh, and it any DUers happen to agree with me, not that it really make/breaks my case, please feel free to say so! I think the other branches of our party need a voice on this forum too! :hi: )