We’re losing. And we’re losing big.

[Cyrano]

We Democrats/Liberals/Progressives, or whatever we choose to call ourselves, have spent the last 30 years playing defense. Somewhere along the way, we forgot how to fight back. And we don’t play defense very well. We’re being buried by banks, oil companies and all the rest of that one or two percent who, in effect, “own us.”

“Own us.” What a despicable idea. I’m talking about those who own almost the entire media. They own most of our federal and state “elected” politicians. And they own many of the next generation of “elected” whores at the local level, who are waiting to sell their souls for influence, wealth and power.

The peasants are kept in line because their votes are guaranteed through fear of “immigrants,” “Muslim terrorists,” “real black equality in America,” and through every other despicable tactic that can be brought to bear. It’s not that hard to exploit ignorance.

So here’s where we are. We Dems seem to have been castrated since the day that the amiable imbecile, Ronald Reagan, infested the Oval Office?

Can this political “game” be turned around? Perhaps. It may take a dozen or a hundred years. And even then, who knows if a new Renaissance will come about? But by then, Earth’s ecological system may have ended us.

So what do you think? Are we losing big? Or are we just in a slump? You already know my opinion.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. I agree with you.

[INdemo]

26. No ..Republicans have been trying for 80 years to get to the point where

they are now..They are in a position to destroy SS...Well lets say everything that was from the New Deal era..and the hell of it is we have a Democrat that is helping them achieve their goals.

[Carolina]

39. he's not a Democrat

he's a Trojan Ass

[cliffordu]

57. And you? What are you???

:hurts:

[vssmith]

118. Homer

[Carolina]

158. you obviously

didn't catch the double meaning. Maybe you'd have understood if I said Trojan Donkey!

Anyway, you don't have to be so crappy with your remarks. BGWY

[dotymed]

120. They HAVE destroyed almost all New Deal legislation.

That is why America is where it is today, another Depression, one that helps Wall Street to the detriment of all of the rest of us.

[jwirr]

122. Actually they have destroyed more of LBJ's legislation on civil

rights. We still have the basic New Deal programs and that is what they are going after now. If we do not win in the election of 2012 then they will take out the New Deal items. Even if we win and we continue to try to make peace through bi-partisan deals we will lose. This deal stuff is crazy IMO. I think he has learned to compromise in his life in order to live in this damned bigoted world and he thinks he can do that with the present day rethugs who are the worst of bigots. We need to understand that nothing is going to work with them. They hate.

[dotymed]

136. I agree to a point.

Obviously, LBJ's legislation has been gutted even though most of it is nothing but enforcing the Constitution.

FDR regulated capitalism so that we would never find ourselves in our current economy again (a Depression). They destroyed Glass-Steagal and either shrank our regulatory commissions so they were incapable of doing their job, bought them off, or totally scrapped them. That was the beginning of the end for Main street.

[jwirr]

163. On that I agree - I was thinking of the safety net as programs for the

poor.

[formernaderite]

156. term limits

We need them NOW. Why?
Having worked in DC 30 years ago, I see nothing has changed. What happens is these reps make friends with each other... I don't think the public gets how the sound bytes are pure sportsmanship for the elected elite. Then they go out to dinner and drinks with each other. I'm not saying we should be enemies with anyone, however it's very hard to fight for principles when you're having dinner later that night.

[FiveGoodMen]

2. I think we might be past the point of no return.

And I don't think we're even ready to fight back yet!

THE most discouraging fact is that so many DUers continue to defend the indefensible (Obama's continuation of Bush's policies).

That suggests there is no hope whatsoever.

[tblue]

27. The only good thing about the Bush years:

We were all on the same side. Now we are divided up the yingyang. A bunch of us defending everything the president does. And a bunch of us using the same yardstick to measure him that we used on Bush. How the heck do we coalesce again when we can't even agree that up is up and down is down?

Tell you what though, I would bet my life that if Obama was an outspoken, dedicated, and skillful fighter for all our Democratic principles, we wouldn't be having these arguments, and this op would not even need to be written. We would all have the same rallying point. We'd be formidable. But no. Can't have that. He's not helping.

[swilton]

64. I thought Kerry was the same way

Rather than standing up to the Republican orchestrated Swift Boat attacks Kerry just caved. I guess he was ashamed of his past...

If he had celebrated his peace activism rather than cave and run away (thereby validating the arguments/lies against him) he and the Democratic Party would have demonstrated that they stood for something...

Those were the years when Terr McCauliff headed the Democratic Party - and beginning of the Democrats trying to 'out defense' the Republicans...
The Democratic Party supported a primary candidate in Florida against Janet Reno - the candidate against Reno had a military record and was a real estate developer (I think) but not the name recognition of Reno..The candidate opposing Reno won the primary with Democratic Party establishment help and then lost the election for governor. Similarly, Lt. Gov. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend's governor's race in Maryland - she picked as a running mate a naval Admiral - no other political experience - and against many strong African American politicians in Maryland...Townsend and the Admiral lost in the main election.

[Little Star]

121. Being from MA I always respected Kerry. I thought of him as a fighter..

When he didn't fight back against those swift boaters with all he had my eyes were opened. He is weak. That makes me sad.

[totodeinhere]

147. And he didn't fight back when they stole the election from him in 2004 either. n/t

[november3rd]

131. It was deception

The people are on one side and all the politicians, corporations and banks are on the other (with the Pentagon brass).

We're still all on the same side. We're just misinformed and confused about who's who and what's what.

Blame the media.

[stockholmer]

146. spot on

[Hell Hath No Fury]

143. "...if Obama was an outspoken, dedicated, and skillful fighter -"

" -for all our Democratic principles, we wouldn't be having these arguments..."

Man, you just said a mouthful.

If he had, I would be an unabashed Obama Booster -- I would be waving the pom-poms 24-fucking-7. I would be proud to be a Democrat and proud that Democratic Party principles were leading and healing the country.

But we got re-warmed trickle down economics, amped up war, continued civil rights violations, and the shitty state of affairs to prove that is was the wrong path. :(

[SusanaMontana41]

51. I despair for those same reasons, and because,

like that of so many of our young people, my son's enthusiasm for all things politics has been destroyed. He's ready to leave the country.

[rhett o rick]

66. I agree. I can understand the gullible republicans, but the gullible democrats are what

get to me. We are past the tipping point. There will be a revolution but it will fail.

[CarmanK]

111. You are wrong! The TBAGGERS Are exposed!! It is OUR TIME!

Obama is not perfect, but then again he has been up against some pretty awful stuff. It is hard for him, as it is for me, to understand that there are some americans who really will sell out their country and their neighbors for a buck and for power. It is hard to believe, that such people are positions of power and are willing to send our troops to their deaths for OIL, IT is hard to believe that this society of ours is willing to tolerate: lying, stealing, cheating and murder as justified in pursuit of profit. the greatest example is of course: Gov. Rick Scott of FL, the Super thief in chief-who got rich stealing millions from medicare and then was given the keys to the FL treasury. The information is out there. Rick Perry is the personification of the new US ORDER should we sit back. He will be the leader, not of the US of AMERICA, but a new TPARTY NATION served by TPARTY corporate PATRIOTS and governed as an oligarchy. Remember all those repug arguments that govt should be run like a business. Well, we now know what that means: Order from the top down, the rich get richer and workers are expendable. The states newly formed fiefdoms (in Rick Perry's words, made up of like minded persons) would be controlled by the largest corps within their boundaries. Look at what is happening to BENTON HARBOR, MI. It is a disgrace, that WHIRLPOOL now rules the town while the new EFM does the bidding of his corporate masters. Even, Snyder doesn't have the power that Whirlpool has over BENTON HARBOR. They are the poster child for TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. Danger is there though,some people are really starting to accept the new RULERS without protests, it is so much easier just to play along. get along.

[CoffeeCat]

125. That's the big issue...

If Democrats no longer stand for Democratic principles, how in the hell can *anything* change?

Democrats who toe the party line, in effect, sanction the corporate takeover of our nation. They
are as bad, if not worse, than the neocon faction of the Republican party who justified Bush's
every move.

Corruption is corruption. I don't give one whit if the corrupt politician is a Republican or
a Democrat. The labels a person wears should not blind us from their actions. But then again,
that is what these corrupt politicians are counting on. That we won't see.

I get more depressed reading the caving from some DUer's, than I do from reading the nonsense
on Free Republic. We expect the right wingers to be lunatics. They always have been over
the edge. The Democrats have been the ones that save the day--and stand up to those who
want to destroy our democracy, our freedoms, our civil rights. If the Democratic party
loses those long-held values, then really--there is nothing left in the political system
that can turn things around. The system will have rotted on all sides.

Very sad.

[demwing]

3. We're are losing, but it aint over till we quit

are you quitting?

[Cyrano]

33. There's a difference between losing and being sold out.

[peace frog]

97. It's a huge difference

but one the ConservaDem/Obama apologists on DU stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.

[rhett o rick]

67. This doesnt have anything to do with quitting. We are losing and past the tipping

point, but we will continue to fight.

[demwing]

71. If its too late to do anything

then whats the point?

If you fight on, you must believe there is hope.

And if there's hope, then we haven't lost yet.

[defendandprotect]

88. Agree - things can always get worse -- we have to get the nuke reactors shut down...!!!

And stop Obama from financing a new generation of nuke reactors in America!!

And one of the best kinds of strikes is everyone slowing down -- !!


Productivity is up 35% in the last decades which wages are stagnant and losing due

to inflation!

[rhett o rick]

151. I will continue to fight even if there is no hope. nm

[tk2kewl]

4. our leaders have by and large been bought

we need new ones and we need to work to elevate the few real liberals we still have in the party

[defendandprotect]

90. We also need to do what Repugs did ... TARGET those in our party and their party who work against

human interests --

Repugs radicalized the NRA to target not only liberals and moderates in the Dem Party

but liberals and moderates in their own party!!

[hedgehog]

5. My impression of Mondale was that he felt America's best days

were past. He seemed to be campaigning on a platform that we were past peak oil and therefore the only direction was down. He seemed to suggest that manufacturing was never going to recover, so we should forget the notion of a middle class. The fact that he lived in a gated community in Minnesota back then didn't make any points in my book, either. Now, this is what my impression of the man was at a time when all I had was Newsweek, the local paper and the 3 networks. Still, if that's what the Democratic candidate seemed to be promising, you can maybe understand how Reagen won. Ironically, Reagen's policies delivered Mondale's America to us!

[Mimosa]

32. ^ Very true ^

I wonder Mondale and other Democrats did not tell us what we could do to stop the downward slide?

We do need jobs making things here. Most poverty, depression and crimes are caused by an economy which provides no hope.

[ieoeja]

52. Have you ever thought to ask yourself, "do we need jobs?"

Mind you, it is a pretty big question as it is a whole other way of thinking. But the fact is, technology has replaced about a zillion more jobs than any other cause.

A Caterpillar factory in Indiana used to employee thousands, now employees dozens, and manufactures more equipment than ever. No jobs lost overseas. No jobs lost because the demand for the product is gone. Simply replaced with improved technology.

Growing up, planting and harvesting on the family farm took our whole family working together for two or three weeks. It is now done in two days by a couple guys.

I look around the office where I work and see layers upon layers of "thinking" jobs being continually added to the infrastructure. It's like we are manufacturing jobs just so people can have a job.

If the work is not needed, why are the jobs? Because that is the manner in which we have structured our economy.

Maybe what we really need is a restructured economy.


But ... if we must go the jobs route, may I suggest an idea offered up by labor unions during the Great Depression: 6 hour day, 30 hour week. For a 24x5 shop that adds another shift (theoretical employment increase of 25% ignoring all other realities).

[harmonicon]

117. You are so right.

I say this sort of tongue in cheek, but I think we should focus on a future where the only job is robot designer.

The problem is the economic system, and there is no political solution that will fix the problem if the entire economic system is not overturned.

The west won the cold war not because of a "better" economic or political structure, but was destined to so long as the east decided to compete. You can not compete with capitalism, because capitalism relies on that. It's like turning up to a NASCAR race with the greatest volleyball players on earth - they can't win, no matter how good they may be at what they do.

It is capitalism that runs the world now and the only way to stop it is to simply STOP IT. It can't be competed out of existence.

[Tumbulu]

Good point- I have observed the same thing

we need fewer work hours and thus more people will have work.

The simplest solution is to stop tying the expensive health insurance costs to full time positions.

[defendandprotect]

89. Peak Oil could be an opportunity had we reacted during the Carter years ... !!!

We might have moved on Global Warming sufficiently to make it survivable --

What we need to do now is get the nuclear reactors shut down --

takes 6 months to properly shut down the type we have in US --

takes 1 year to shut down Fukushima design --

and don't know if in either case that includes appropriate disposal of the WASTE --

if there is even is such a thing!




:nuke:

[femrap]

6. It's all one big

Party that is beholden to the multi-national corporations and the top 400 Richest in the nation....Fascism, I guess.

There is no democracy. And campaigns are just a Circus for the masses. But the masses are running low on Bread!

[woo me with science]

7. There is a groundswell of anger out there just waiting to be tapped.

Polls show it. Recent history shows it.

Fully 70 to 80 percent of Americans back cutting military spending, defending Social Security and Medicare, and taxing the rich. NONE of these options are being seriously offered by either party. The original Tea Party protests were actually about the bailouts, before the Tea Party movement was co-opted by the corporate and religious Right. Politicians and CEO's are stealing from Republicans, too. Approval ratings for this President and Congress are as low as they are ACROSS party lines, because people are sick of the games and the shock doctrine tactics. They are sick of having legislation shoved down their throats before they even get to see it, and they are frightened and enraged by their constantly declining standard of living, even while the rich rake in record profits.

Democrats are the party most equipped to tap into this anger. We have always prided ourselves on standing up for ordinary Americans...But as long as we let the Third Way corporate elements of our party run the show, it will not happen.

[AverageJoe90]

18. Amen! K&R. n/t

[marions ghost]

36. we do need a movement

to coalesce somehow. We are just not being heard.

[swilton]

65. Democratic Party won't be there

It's lost its identity...

I think a new party is in order.

[liberation]

73. The Democratic party will be there

to absorb and then subdue and subsume any disruptive movement before it may have a chance to become able to threaten the status quo. Just like they have done for the past 100 odd years.

[Mimosa]

74. Woo Me, you speak for the voiceless, ieoeja you have agood point too.

BUT in the meantime people are suffering to the point of despair, no jobs, no futures.

[defendandprotect]

92. Two fights that would change things -- ending wars/MEDICARE FOR ALL...

That would stop the bankrupting of our Treasury --

MEDICARE FOR ALL would create jobs --

Not to be so foolish as to think they wouldn't immediately find new

wants to steal from Treasury, but morally these wars must be stopped.

MEDICARE FOR ALL would improve condition of many Americans while stop

the bankrupting of Americans via insurance company fraud --

and the health costs that are bankrupting citizens beyond their health.

It would also save government money and create 2.3 million new jobs.

Both things would put us on a better fights would put us on a better

footing to protect SS and Medicare!


Simpler to just fight for reregulation of capitalism but capitalists have

control of government -- the most sucidial of them -- OIL and COAL industries!

[defendandprotect]

93. Agree with your analysis ... but Third Way is running Dem Party .... !!

Do we really have any idea what's left of the party?

PLUS we have a Goebbels' style corporate-press protecting this corporate crime --

Democrats could tap into this anger -- but we've seen over 3 decades now on all the

issues their SILENCE is simply fostering a right wing take over -- unchallenged.


The WILL OF THE PEOPLE is simply being ignored --

while at every turn the public is being bankrupted by corporate crime -- !!

[dotymed]

123. IF we can take over "our" government, we can re-instate

The Fairness Doctrine and enforce it. That rule protected us against propaganda for decades.

There are many projects that would create jobs (if we keep this capitalist system). we can retool for green energy (thanks Obama), remake a vastly improved infrastructure, implement medicare for all...,many things.

There will come a time when these projects will be finished. What then?

The first thing we must do is mobilize the citizenry. The majority of citizens want the same things. Many are intolerant of other lifestyles, but we will have to fight those battles as they occur. I think October 6 is a great starting point.

I just hope it attracts different political parties. Plain Americans who are sick of Fascism.

[defendandprotect]

167. Taking back government would mean a new Dem candidate for 2012 ....

maybe even a new party?

Also means overturning Congress including rw Dems who are ignoring the will

of the people --

We need to end these wars simply based on their illegality and immorality -- but

they are also bankrupting our Treasury and we're going into second decade now!

We also need MEDICARE FOR ALL which would save government money, but especially

to put American citizens back on their feet and out of danger of loss of homes,

etal -- and health, well-being!

[leveymg]

8. We had a window of opportunity in 2009 but Obama and the Dem Senate leaders quickly threw it away

Obama had a mandate for a Second New Deal but squandered it playing political softball and footsie with Wall Street.

He'll end up in the history books along with Herbert Hoover as a competent technocrat who lacked the imagination and ideological orientation to push for any real reforms or control over the banks while the country sank into Depression.

[Cyrano]

35. I really, really hope you're wrong, leveymg. Yet, I can't come up with

a good argument to refute your opinion.

Herbert Hoover sucked a lot. The idea of Obama's presidency falling into the Hoover sewer is too depressing to contemplate.

[leveymg]

43. I hope I'm wrong about that, too, and will gladly eat my words

and my favorite hat if things really turn around, as I dearly hope they will. :hi: :kick:

[tblue]

48. OMGOSH!!! I KISS YOUR FEET! THANK U!!!

It seems no one else understands this, about the mandate and opportunity wasted.

It's not and never was about a bad policy decision here or there, or giving too much to Republicans. It is about the GINORMOUS opportunity, and the huge political capital, thrown on the junk heap and we may never see it again in our lifetime. We had such an opportunity, we had 2 years to at least TRY Democratic ideas, and we didn't even do that. "it's only been X years!" people screamed at me, as if we had forever to get this right. Meanwhile, we lost the House. Now, look at us. Still on the brink of disaster and fingers pointed at all the wrong people.

I have been saying what you said til I am blue in the face. I'm so glad someone else says it too.

[leveymg]

62. Even if we're completely wrong, it's good to have such nice company in

our perceptions. We're not the only ones. Nobel Prize winning economists Joseph Stiglitz and Paul Krugman have been saying and writing the same thing about the lost opportunities for financial reform, and how much that will end up costing us in the long run.

[tblue]

91. We're not wrong.

No way to prove something would have happened but I'd bet good money if we could.

[peace frog]

98. It sickens me still

to recall with what casual unconcern they threw away their best opportunity to turn around the crimes of the Bush years. UGH.

[stockholmer]

148. and there is no FDR waiting in the wings to replace Obama, even if he wins in 2016, the US

will be staring at 2016 and the rise of a truly destructive political force to deliver the coup d' grace.

[FSogol]

9. The sky is falling!

*shakes head*

[tblue]

49. I think it done falled.

I think we need to raise our standards a little.

[Skittles]

96. are you really THAT fucking blind?

REALLY? :thumbsdown:

[peace frog]

99. It's down around our ears already

but there are none so blind as those who will not see.

[formercia]

10. The Earth will heal itself

even if we don't survive as a species.

[savannah43]

114. Yes, keep your head right up there.

This attitude absolves you from doing anything about it, doesn't it?

[formercia]

153. So, what did you do Today to protect Mother Earth?

Jus' Askin'

[bengalherder]

139. I don't give two shits about humans disappearing

But that our collapse is going to kill everything here else except cockroaches and rats is sickening. That 'earth will heal crap' is just another way of not taking responsibility.

[formercia]

159. I take responsibility every Day

Do You?

[TeamsterDem]

11. With great sadness I have to agree with you. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

12. From February of '08 . . . .

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Husb2Sparkly/44

[PufPuf23]

31. Good and sad journal.

Those of us that were adults pre-Reagan lived in a better USA. I wish the younger DUers had the same opportunity and perspective.

Civil rights had advanced. We stopped Vietnam. Nixon resigned. There was hope in the air.

Yuppies were new and urban sprawl was nothing like today.

Reagan was an evil shithead but did not realize how bad things were until the stolen election of Fall 2000 followed by 9-11 and the reign of GWB et al.

Dropped out to my childhood home in the mountains in 2003 and have worse health and financial security than ever in my life.

Sheesh I would feel better about myself and the world if I ignored the internet and TV and spent my time reading and playing in my garden.

I am certain I will die before the USA improves.

The environment should be the most important issue but jobs/income, health, and wars are much more immediate for most of us.

[Carolina]

41. "Those of us that were adults

pre-Reagan lived in a better USA..." How right you are. My profound sadness about the world I see today is that my son and his peers have no idea what a different and in many ways better world it was.

I am glad I was born when I was :hi:

[Carolina]

42. self delete

somehow hit 'post' twice

[abelenkpe]

13. Cycles have always existed

Dems/Liberals have been losing since the days of Reagan. It's is time for the pendulum to swing the other way. I still have hope....

Sometimes

[Cyrano]

46. "There is no spoon" (pendulum ).

A reference to one of the best lines in "The Matrix." (If you haven't seen it, watch the original, ignore the sequels.)

[and-justice-for-all]

14. We need a congress full of Graysons, Frankens and Sanders..nt

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rocknrollgangster]

16. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

The Wave Speech
Hunter S. Thompson

http://youtu.be/uk4LLvlMsjM

"“Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Five years later? Six? It seems like a lifetime, or at least a Main Era — the kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of. Maybe it meant something. Maybe not, in the long run . . . but no explanation, no mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive in that corner of time and the world. Whatever it meant. . . .

History is hard to know, because of all the hired bullshit, but even without being sure of “history” it seems entirely reasonable to think that every now and then the energy of a whole generation comes to a head in a long fine flash, for reasons that nobody really understands at the time — and which never explain, in retrospect, what actually happened.

My central memory of that time seems to hang on one or five or maybe forty nights — or very early mornings — when I left the Fillmore half-crazy and, instead of going home, aimed the big 650 Lightning across the Bay Bridge at a hundred miles an hour wearing L. L. Bean shorts and a Butte sheepherder’s jacket . . . booming through the Treasure Island tunnel at the lights of Oakland and Berkeley and Richmond, not quite sure which turn-off to take when I got to the other end (always stalling at the toll-gate, too twisted to find neutral while I fumbled for change) . . . but being absolutely certain that no matter which way I went I would come to a place where people were just as high and wild as I was: No doubt at all about that. . . .

There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda. . . . You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .

And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting — on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark — that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.”

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. "All politics is local." Tip O'Neill

Obama won in 2008 because Bush was such a lousy president and screwed things up so badly that the people wanted a change. It was because people realized that the Republicans were really bad at running the country and it effected them locally. In their pocketbooks and their aspirations for a secure future.

The party that sells the people the idea that it is going to "fix" things in bad times or keep things going in good times usually wins.

Obama convinced the people that he would fix things. He hasn't and all the reasons, rationales, excuses, don't mean squat. Obama is a good salesman but he doesn't have much to sell except more of the same and "not as bad".

That said, I think he'll win in '12 because the Repugs are selling pure snake-oil and their salesmen/women are obviously buffoons.

But, there's a whole lot of monkey wrenches that can screw things up to the point that the people will vote for almost any change from any quarter.

[Kalidurga]

25. Yes, Obama will probably win and even though it is the same o same o

here is why that is not a bad thing. First the Supreme Court, I don't even want to think of what a Bachmann or Perry would do to the Supreme Court. Second, while Obama may not have delivered much, if we can get more Democrats in congress then just maybe we can turn things around for people locally. I just can't see Republicans winning the white house and not getting more seats in congress if they were to win the white house. So we either go big or go home.

[LeftinOH]

19. We may have to lose the Empire first. Becoming a normal country instead of

an "exceptional" one (to use a RW term) could change everything.

[QC]

20. The Right has spent the past 40 years developing an intellectual infrastructure,

while the Left spent those same 40 years taking over the English Department.

Good article here: http://wonkette.com/452223/happy-40th-birthday-to-justice-lewis-f-powells-war-on-the-american-left

[OnionPatch]

59. Boy, isn't that the truth.

It's all about controlling the message, and sadly, the right has that all wrapped up.

[madlefty]

107. I can't listen to the MSM anymore, I am trying too

watch some of the morning news shows now and I can't believe all the crap they ALL try to feed us to keep us sedated.

[newspeak]

142. I call it a propaganda infrastructure

I don't see it as very intellectual; unless intellectual means how can we get our greedy friends more moolah and power while hoodwinking the plebes with utter fabricated BS.

[QC]

150. Economic theories that used to be the fringe are now mainstream

because the right put funding and effort behind polishing up those theories and creating a rightist media machine that could present them to the public at every level, from the academy to the middlebrow set to talk radio enthusiasts.

Today, virtually everyone in the country--including President Obama--believes that so-called "free markets" are the only possible way to organize a society and government cannot create jobs.

While the Right was bringing this about, the Left mostly retreated into academia, where all that old stuff about haves and have-nots quickly became old hat, to be replaced by things like applying poststructuralist critical theory to Madonna videos.

We need to be speaking to the public.

[Angry Dragon]

21. It starts with the pardon of Nixon

or even the murder of JFK

TPTB and corporations have been grabbing a little piece here, a little piece there
until we find ourselves dealing with a huge usurpation of citizen rights and freeedoms

[provis99]

47. It started with hypocritical slave owners complaining they wanted their liberty.

[dotymed]

128. Did you watch that video post a few days ago?

It was by bush,Sr.'s secretary of housing. She said she had been warning of the housing bubble for a decade before it popped. She said she was poisoned, her animals killed, she was run off the road and threatened.

The "big boys" of finance will do ANYTHING to protect their money and future earnings, no matter what laws they break, even murder.

We must be willing to fight that. I hope for a non-violent revolution, they will do anything to prevent that.

During the 60's Anti-War protests, they sent undercover operatives in to create violence seemingly from the protestors. This gave them the "right" to protect Americans from the "violent hippies".

It will be even worse this time (if there is a "this time"). The enemies of Democracy who now run our country, will stop at nothing to retain control. Maybe a "dirty bomb planted by the protestors" would give them the

excuse they need. It doesn't matter how many lives are lost. I have been labeled a "Truther" by folks on DU. They consider that an insult, yet they cannot answer the tough questions with plausible answers.

History is full of "false flag" operations. I cannot understand how anyone who is aware of this cannot (a least) consider the possibility and seek the truth. IMO. we are quickly becoming an Idiocracy. I thought this

was just a cheesy movie until I saw the similarities between the movie and America's direction, especially in education. "They" want charter schools that have no accountability and public schools that are way underfunded

and teach to a standardized test. They do not want thinkers, only followers who will not question the status quo.

Of course, the elite have their private institutions that teach their students how to become wealthier at any cost.

[bbgrunt]

138. well said. btw, do you have a link for that video?

[dotymed]

164. No but you should be able to find it on DU. It was posted less

than a week ago.

[dotymed]

165. Here is the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x612562

[bbgrunt]

166. thanks a lot!

[TacticalPeek]

22. Done, ruined, fucked.

At the same time, struggle is good for the soul.

[OHdem10]

23. The Righties are planning 50 year reign in power. If you want

to have a country in which the Rich live in their gated
communities with body guards to get their kids to school
and the masses are working poor and poor.

Check out Texas, they are becoming the model for the
rest of the country. As Republicans De-regulate and
cut taxes, deregulate again, Business totally runs
things. What does Business always want. More and
More deregulation means lower and lower wages, fewer
benefits. Lower and Lower Taxes means less money to
run the government and fewer and fewer therefore fewer
services for people. Personal Responsibility

If we take a attitude of nothing can be done, then
happy landing in a RW Country. This is where we
are headed.

[Jakes Progress]

24. It started with reagan and has culminated

with an administration of reagan democrats.

[madrchsod]

28. ......wisconsin.....

[socialist_n_TN]

29. Well most people will know what I say about it

If we are fucked, I'm going down swinging. That's why I'm a Marxist. In spite of it's sectarianism, it's the ONLY unabashedly anticapitalist group/philosophy out there. And it's NOT "play nice" when it comes to the class war being waged on us. We do our best to FIGHT BACK.

Hell it's better than giving up.

[saras]

30. They don't own me any more than a sick monkey "owns" the Ebola virus

[marions ghost]

38. good analogy

:thumbsup:

However, Ebola is lethal to us monkeys. Semantics may not matter if we die out.

How do we resurrect the spirit of all those dying and suffering monkeys? There is a depressive malaise in this country.

How do we pull ourselves out as a group?

[dtexdem]

34. We've been losing, and losing big, for 30 years.

[Carolina]

37. We've lost

[Romulox]

40. Nothing that a war in Libya, a little "austerity", and "free trade" with Korea won't fix up!

Er... :shrug:

[EFerrari]

53. Plus, don't look back.

When both parties decide the rule of law doesn't apply to all of us and when both parties think dismantling our institutions is the way to go, they are dismantling the state we agreed to.

[bvar22]

44. When the Working Class...

When the Working Class and The Poor realize we have MORE in common with each other
than we have in common with the Elite Class Politicians now controlling BOTH dominant political parties,
THEN we can demand "CHANGE".
As long as we remain divided, the Status Quo WILL be maintained.

There IS a successful Blue Print for this "CHANGE".
It has been given to by our neighbors in Latin America.
They have achieved nothing less than near bloodless revolutions,
but they had one advantage.
Their elections are transparent, verifiable, and monitored & certified by International agencies.
We don't have that in the USA,
and neither political party is remotely interested in giving that to us.
So, we have some work to do.

"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales

FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights,
but THAT "Democratic Party" died about 30 years ago.
It was killed by the DLC (3rd Way/Centrist" Blue Dog, "New Democrats") who opened the door to BIG Corporate Money and sold out the Lower 98%.


I suspect it will get worse before it gets better.
Take care to protect yourself, and spread the word.

VIVA Democracy!
I pray we get some here soon.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[OmahaBlueDog]

45. The election of Reagan really marked the emergence of three ideas

The election of Reagan really marked the emergence of three ideas:
- Government, particularly the Federal government, is a bad actor
- The common good is subordinate to individual prosperity (it's about me, not about we)
- Material wealth is a measure of your value as a person (if your poor, it's all your own damn fault)

I'm NOT saying Reagan brought us these three ideas. On the contrary, I'm saying that the emergence of those ideas brought us Reagan. The days of the Great Depression and Great Society were gone. Government was no longer viewed as a problem solver. Problems, it was reasoned, could be better, more cheaply, and more efficiently solved by private enterprises, and non-state actors, such as churches.

[hay rick]

61. "Entrepreneurs " were the new heroes.

Entre-manure.

And the mythic story of America changed from the dynamic change and progress wrought by democracy to the triumph of capitalist society.

[wiggs]

50. Yes. 'We' meaning ALL of us, left/right, conservative/progressive, rich/poor, atheist/deist,

DUer/Freeper, leftie/RW nutbag, scientist/fact-denier, NPR fan/dittohead...etc. ALL OF US are losing big. We are losing opportunities to follow pathways that are much more humane, moral, progressive, enlightened, hopeful, and that have more potential besides creating a few winners and a bunch of losers.

[spanone]

54. naw

[amborin]

55. K&R

[cliffordu]

56. Nope. We.Are.Dead.

It's been over since 2000. maybe before.

Now that corporations are people you and I are just the duff at the bottom of the bag.

Embrace the horror.

[RagAss]

58. I agree 100%. The only good news is, since we are "already dead" there is hope.

The most dangerous enemy to have is not an angry person. An angry person still has hope in the system they are angry at. The most dangerous enemy to have is instead an enemy who sees them self as "Already Dead"......you just can't hurt them anymore. And I would never want one as my enemy.

[cliffordu]

68. When the duff stop being afraid of blood, they that rule are fucked.

Just sayin'

[Jim_Shorts]

155. We now live in a 100% "corporate state"

"we get to choose the rhetoric and manner in which we are deceived and dis-empowered. Nothing more" - Chris Hedges

Does anyone here think that we could even pass one meaningful piece of legislation. The people overwhelmingly wanted health-care passed (like all of Europe has) and the Dems and Repugs were all bought off.

And the world is not fucking flat, it's round and always has been with all of the inequalities that comes with such a world. To say our wages and standard of living is the same as Asian countries is absurd and it is now a race to the bottom with multinationals reaping the profits. (and not paying a dime in taxes for it) I found it interesting that the head of Exxon is now making deals with Vladimir Putin that allows Russia to be part of the drilling operations in the Gulf of Mexico.

We are not in a slump, the system is now corrupt to its core and I give us very little chance to get the money out of politics and take our country back.

[RegieRocker]

60. The reaon

Alienating. The party is a master at this and it has worked it's way to the top.
Need a partial list that you can add to. OK.

Guns
Religion
Corporation Love (bail outs etc.)

[Shagbark Hickory]

63. Identifying the problem is pretty easy. Coming up with a solution...

not so much.

[Zax2me]

69. We have White House, Senate, and until recently House.

How are we losing badly?

[ldf]

70. we are being handed defeat

lock, stock and barrel, by our democratic leaders.

they have a unique knack for pulling crushing defeats out of glorious victory.

(although at times i believe it is actually a concerted effort that is achieving exactly what they want.... to stay in power.) they have been bought and paid for, wholesale, by the corporations who fund them, their new constituents, their new "persons" to represent.

until they are removed, nothing is going to change.

and the democratic party power machine is NOT going to let change "that you can REALLY believe in", happen.

we must look elsewhere. or convince the few remaining that deserve our support, to strike out with us, on our own.

there has to be a new party.

[liberation]

72. It depends what you mean by "we"

is it in the royal "we" sense?

[totodeinhere]

149. If you mean "we the people," no we never had them. Almost all politicians have been bought,

and that includes most Democrats.

[scentopine]

75. democrats are happily following in the slipstream of the right wing shock troops....

Obama is letting centrists, republicans, baggers and other right wingers take control of the political direction for the nation. The right wing is moving at an incredible pace. The republicans softening us up with the tea bagger extremists. We have become completely desensitized.

Meanwhile, Democrats are "conserving" energy by drafting behind the right wingers. Both parties are moving to the right at exactly the same speed. Dems just have to stay 1 millimeter to the left of the extremists to appear as an alternative.

Today's neo-dem has no articulated public policy, no ideals, no principals, absolutely fucking zero. The neo-dem leadership doesn't want to be encumbered by these quaint notions of representational government. That would take stick-to-it commitment and passion - dirty words to the modern calculating and triangulating neo-dem. For a neo-dem, it's enough to not be George Bush or Rick Perry. Neo-dems have no expectations, corporate money talks.

Neo-dems make no secret of their hatred of liberals, unions and teachers. Today's democratic leadership is quick to defend torture and citizen surveillance and big oil. The neo-dem believes that decisions must be made based on pragmatic principals of greed and political expediency.

Today's neo-dem believes in a two tier justice system - one for the rich who pay to play, and a separate one for poor people, handing out harsh prison terms for petty crimes.

The neo-dem argues the value of outsourcing millions of jobs to unregulated slave labor markets in Asia, while starting a third war before finishing the other two.

The dem party is completely lost. We need to put their picture on milk cartons and see if anyone recognizes it.

[bbgrunt]

140. so true and you say it so well!

[scentopine]

161. Thank you! -nt

[chill_wind]

144. Another very excellent description

of what is happening.

[scentopine]

162. Thank you -nt

[PBass]

76. I certainly disagree about liberals "losing" or playing defense.

There was a massive cultural shift in the 60s and 70s, which WE WON.

For example, racism is now taboo. Racism certainly hasn't gone away, and it's still a problem. But to be branded a racist now in America is hugely shameful. 50 years ago, that wasn't true.

Similarly, women, gays, environmentalists, artists, atheists, pacifists, and multi-culturalists (I'm sure there is a better term for this... universalists?) etc etc all made significant, lasting gains. All of these things are now considered MAINSTREAM, basically, or well on the way. You might get some friction in some places in America if you are an atheist for example, but it's not considered some fringe cult that you can't discuss, if you are discussing religion. Recycling? Prosecuting sexual harrassors in the workplace? Gay marriage on the horizon? A black president? That wasn't happening, 50 years ago.

Understand? WE WON BIG. HUGE.

Politics can be like a pendulum, we have also lost ground in some respects (recently, tax cuts for millionaires) but those things are transient, compared to the big cultural shifts that Liberalism accomplished.

Think about this... someday in the not so distant future, young people will be confounded when they hear that gay people used to be denied the right to marry, the same way we currently find it bizarre that mixed race marriages were once forbidden.

Don't be discouraged, we are losing some battles, but winning the war. THINK LONG TERM.

[kimsarah]

77. Please don't confuse

progressives with liberals or Democrats.

[PBass]

78. Actually, please DO confuse progressives, liberals and Democrats.

We should consider Liberal Democrats to be the norm, and Blue Dog Democrats to be an aberration, one that is short-lived hopefully.

[democrank]

79. Starting tomorrow....

We need to reclaim the message rather than participate in the nonsensical prattle wafting from the Beltway cesspool. For instance, every chance we get we need to elevate the definition of liberal and progressive. Since when is it a "leftist" idea to solve the problem of homelessness or demand that soldiers not be sent to a war zone NINE TIMES? We need to put our money where our mouths are and start supporting progressive candidates, progressive television programs, progressive businesses, progressive ideas.

Let the Third Way-ers/DLCers/Centrists do their thing and continue to support President Obama`s versions of George Bush policies. Let them do all the hand shaking with "our friends across the aisle" and let them vote once again for the same policies they were against under George Bush. Let them "move forward" and ignore Bush administration war crimes and "move forward" with another few years of killing Afghan civilians. Heck, they can even "move forward" by bashing teachers and defunding after school programs or claiming people facing foreclosures are just foolish twits that shouldn`t have had a house to begin with. They can "move forward" partnering with Big Pharma and cheer over the $57-dollar-a-bottle pills that cost 48 cents to produce.If Third Way-ers stick with the current "leadership" they might be able to help craft new legislation (again with their "friends across the aisle") that will make criminals of all gays and lesbians or women who have abortions. They can fight for bigger class sizes AND bigger tasers, bigger tax breaks for banksters AND bigger fines for drug addicts. They can put the brakes on all PBS programming for Aroostook County, Maine potato farmers and stop any further actions against BP. There is just no end to "moving forward" as long as you come up with plans Republicans support.

On the other hand, progressives/liberals should continue working for and voting for REAL change, not the nifty slogan kind. We can sharpen our communications, pool our money and agree to not vote for fakes. We must reclaim our message of social and economic justice and focus on supporting local and state candidates with the same principles. Above all, we must stop making excuses for feckless "leaders" who talk the talk but don`t even bother to walk the walk because they believe we`ll vote for them no matter what.

Time to get the message out, just like we did during the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement. When "leaders" in our own party are so detached they need a commission to figure out how to take funding from the neediest so the wealthiest can keep their tax breaks, it`s time for REAL change.When "leaders" in our own party waste month after month after month trying to "compromise" with Republicans while a giant chunk of the country suffers, it`s time for REAL change. The excuses for this administration that I read on DU is the lipstick.The obscene mess in Washington is the pig.

[Le Taz Hot]

104. This should be a separate post.

Bravo(a?)! :thumbsup:

[chill_wind]

116. Excellent assessment of reality.

The first and most important step of all is to stop acknowledging or responding to the lipstick in any way, except for calling it exactly what it is. The useless excuse makers and all the message warriors trying to continue to sell us all mediocrity and failure cannot be given one further inch of credence or respect. They continue to be facilitators themselves for the rotten crumbling mess as much as anyone to their further right.

[dotymed]

134. And, in order to thwart another R/Wer for President,

We must primary the current administration with a proven commodity. I would choose Sanders but it must be a majority decision. Progressives CAN WIN, no matter what "they" tell us.

The first step is to not let "them" pick our candidate. We are ALWAYS left with the lesser of two evils. This time lets get a candidate who IS the greater choice to lead America in the direction that our majority want.

And then pray that our election system actually works...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

145. Bravo!

We need to bypass the current Democratic power system entirely. Money, time, and votes ONLY to those who stand with the People.

The current Democratic power structure believes that they will always have the votes of the left/FDR Democrats because we "have nowhere else to go" -- they count on us having a conscious and doing the right thing at the end of the day, no matter how tightly we have to hold our nose to do so.

Sorry, but it is way past time to put the fear of god in them. :shrug:

It will be a tough fight -- look at what they did to Howard Dean, the last real non-establishment Dem to try to challenge the Dem system. Torpedoed right out in favor of the more establishment Kerry.

[democrank]

80. Reply #44 is worth a reread.

[begin_within]

81. We wanted to fight back, but the ruling class bought off our team.

[WCGreen]

82. Oh god I feel the same way...

Just wrote a post about my personal epiphany about the whimpyness of the Democratic party.

[pam4water]

83. K&R

[Skittles]

84. we could have done MUCH BETTER than this

people need to PAY ATTENTION to who they are voting for - there are DUers STILL defending this crap, fer chrissakes

[Hubert Flottz]

85. Simply stated...

We are up shit creek in a very leaky boat, rudderless and without any means of propulsion. Totally at the mercy of wave after wave of more shit, as far as the eye can see, or the nose can smell.

They(the republican traitors)have reduced Flottz to flotsam, in very short order.

[Skittles]

95. we will all be Tucker Barnes

:(
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/08/28/2011-08-28_fox_weather_reporter_tucker_barnes_gets_covered_in_sewage_reporting_on_hurricane.html

[Hubert Flottz]

115. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

OM-GAWD It's a sign!

Repent Rupert!

That dude is doing a shitty job!

[andym]

86. cynicism toward government that predated Reagan laid the groundwork for the defeat

of liberalism. Perhaps in their own ways LBJ (Vietnam) and Nixon (Vietnam and Watergate) were most responsible in building a distrust of government. Carter and Ford contributed by demonstrating the weakness of government. Then came Reagan and the "government is the problem not the solution," which became deeply embedded in our culture.

The federal government is still mistrusted today even on DU (stories of inefficiency, or corruption by corporate power abound).

Until the federal government is again seen as a friend of the people, efficient and effective, the conservatives will tend to crush the liberals, since they tell a story of "freedom," while liberals tell a "discredited" story of big government.

Question is how to change the narrative.

[defendandprotect]

87. Global Warming will end their reign ... but it will also end our species!! Capitalism is suicidal.!

Unfortunately, Americans haven't been political and they previously had FDR and

Democrats who had protected them -- people they could trust.

As things began to change, they didn't catch on quickly enough!!

Ralph Nader has been telling the public for 30/40 years what was going on --

but too many voters trusted politicians if they had a "D" after their name!!


"Congress is under the control of the OIL and COAL industries" -- Al Gore/Rolling Stone ]

Heard something today on this -- 82% of the oil money financing Repugs --

72% of the Coal money financing Repugs --

Presume balance goes to Dems?

[lonestarnot]

94. Ask disastered pugs who have no homes that Cantor does see fit to help out by funding FEMA who they

are going to vote for 2012 in about 2 more weeks. :evilgrin:

[ThomThom]

100. We are losing, the whole world is losing because of our

failure to deal with the right wing people that control the economy of the world. Their philosophy needs to be exposed and power removed but that will never happen.

[Demeter]

101. Yes, I Agree, and I Notice that Some Don't Think So

because their ox has yet to be gored to death....

[Safetykitten]

102. Beyond losing. We would have to make up a word.

[AnnieK401]

103. Totally agree

This is spot on.

[spooked911]

105. same as it ever was-- the elites, the Powers that Be, the Puppet Masters, keep us in line

all we can do is fight back and hope to stem the tide.

[dothemath]

106. Losing big?

We have lost, my friend.

Regrouping and standing up for ourselves is possible, but it may be awhile before that happens. My sense is that Americans won't wait as long as some mid-eastern countries (thousands of years), but it won't happen in my lifetime.

[Marblehead]

108. this cuts to the

heart of the matter and I believe is the key to regaining our sovereignty aka country back...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ

[rasputin1952]

109. Here's part of the deal, and it's not pretty...

We are a diverse party, often described as "trying to herd cats", but it goes beyond that to a degree.

Just read DU for a bit, there are people who post here with great ideas on how to tackle problems and situations, and, there are people who post here that are single issue voters and are distressed because their particular issue was not addressed precisely as they wished.

We should be fighting for the common good of all citizens, in fact, most of us do, but it appears as if we are all on different pages of the script.

How many times can one read, "I'm not going to vote so I can teach, (insert name here), a lesson!" Then, we get R's and Teabaggers in office...some lesson! One reason we lost the House was because D's sat out the election on some obscure reasoning that somehow a "lesson" was needed for D's...we got Boehner, Cantor, Issa and other morons running the show...now that was a "lesson" well deserved.

The bottom line is that we will never get everything we want, but to just toss in the towel on everything to "prove a point" is insane. The only "point" proven in that is that point is at the top of one's head.

We want progress, we want our country back...we have to WORK for it, and whining isn't work, it's whining.

I go to GOP meetups just to ask questions that piss people off...but those questions make people,l think too. I'm working on the Elizabeth Warren campaign and damn proud of it...I'll go to Scott Brown's Clown Halls as well...but he's gonna feel heat, and I'll be tossing anthracite just to bring up the temperature. I've worked my ass off in politics my entire life, working to get progressives and liberals in office...I'll be doing that till the day I die, (maybe even after that). I don't have time to whine, I have work to do...and if we work in our districts, states and nationally, we can crush the GOP 0nce and for all.

I have no sympathy for whiners, I don't hand out crying towels. I'll work with anyone who will work to destroy the neo-com/GOP agenda, and I'll work hard. We'll never get a "perfect" candidate...but we can't afford another round of GOP stupidity.

VOTE...make a difference!


Edited for dumb typo's...:blush:

[JTFrog]

124. Great post.

:thumbsup:

[Bluenorthwest]

137. I've never met a single issue voter. Who are they?

I have, however, seen a few people who knew how to herd cats. It is easy, but you have to deal with them as cats, not sheep or goats or cows.
So it is very possible to herd cats. And I do not believe in these 'one issue voters' you claim to meet. I think that is a sort of code word you are using. Never met any single issue voter. Like the God in the President's Mix, I think it is a made up device of rhetoric. A label. A dog whistle, at times.

[rasputin1952]

160. Just read DU, single issue voters are all over the place...

There are many issues that individuals care about, but for some, an issue simply means more than other issues or the collective.

It makes no difference what the issue is, they vary by individual...but how many times have you read something to the effect of..."Obama didn't get us jobs", (not his job)"; "Obama didn't fight in WI", (again, not his job). Then there is the usual, "I'll never vote for "R", let's impeach him or primary him!"

Point is, the alternative is Republican, and that sucks.

[chill_wind]

154. Here's who stayed home. And it wasn't DU boomers and middle-aged hippy liberals

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2010/results/polls/#val=USH00p1

It was angry Independents who turned out hard, but not for Dems.

It was called the Jobless Effect.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/07/20/unemployment-fuels-independent-voters-anger/

The party has to find a way re-ignite the AA and youth vote as well, if not most of all.

Look at the turnout. It says it all.

Fixating wrongly on small numbers of DUers who might have declared they were staying home in the mid-terms isn't what happened in the large scheme or what got us what we got in 2010, and continuing to ignore the reality won't be the solution. The same for the single-issue voter straw man IMHO. The problem is of much greater proportion. People are incredibly angry, disenfranchised, fearful and frustrated beyond comprehension across a wide- WIDE- array of issues and very bad directions that have been taken by this admin.

Obama determinedly ignored every sane progressive economist's voice out there for almost 3 years.
They said at every turn "Focus on Jobs. Not deficits!" What did he do? He ordained the Deficit Commission, elevated it to the top national political and media priority and devoted almost a year of his presidency to it. Along with coddling the banksters, ignoring due justice for the Bush-Cheney war criminal cabals, the ongoing perma-wars and our ever expanding National Security State, we continue to reap the consequences of pandering to Republican neofascists. They have been horrible policies, but the excuse making (and liberal bashing at every bad juncture and protestation of it) has been legion. They were horrible directions under Bush. They continue to bleed us dry economically and morally as a nation still now. That's just fact.

[Chimichurri]

110. This is because we vote and support Corporate Democrats who are no better than

Republicans. This includes *gasp* Barack Obama.

[NorthCarolina]

119. Yep.

It's all locked up because the Democratic party machine will only financially back the campaigns of Corporate flavored Dems. Liberal/Progressive candidates are given ridicule by the party, which is in turn parroted by the MSM to make such a candidacy a futile effort at best. We don't have the luxury of voting for the candidates we prefer, we simply choose from the corporate sponsored candidates we are permitted to vote for, and Diebold handles the rest.

[Javaman]

112. Until Citizens United is overturned, our voice in modern politics has effectively been muted. nt

[savannah43]

113. "...infested the oval office..." I love it!

A soon to be classic description of the republican insects. Well put.

[Bosso 63]

126. One chunk of the population drinks the republican kool aid.

Another chunk that doesn't know/care one way or the other.
Then you have a chunk that would like to see change, but feel it's pointless to try.
The last chunk are the people that want change AND are still willing to do something about it.

It comes down to motivating those who feel powerless and educating the ignorant. I don't know what that will take, but the Arab Spring tells me it can happen.

[hue]

127. We are not losing it...

We are not losing it, tho that is what the oligarchy would want you to believe. Success and failure are first realized in the mind in order to be actualized just as everything tangible that has come into being: a home, marriage, a degree, wars and peace and so on. It may seem as tho we are "losing it" because so much of what has been going on for so many years is now coming into the light. For those who grew up in a better time I say to them that ALEC has been around for more than 40 years and has covertly/quietly exerted its influence and ideas and has grown to control legislature, policies and practices of our economy/banking and markets (much moreso on the right)on both sides or all sides. Nothing is beyond them, so they think, because they already have enough $$, its power and control they lust for.
Yet at the same time the oligarchy (Koch Bros. and their ilk) are more vulnerable now than ever. They are coming into the spotlight and some of their tricks are being found out. People are waking up from their idyllic dreams. Its not Mr. Roger's neighborhood any more. There is a new generation rising up and they are more aware and able to communicate than those who were more easily controlled. The Arabs are not the only ones experiencing spring; the world is! So tho they rear their ugly heads, and believe me those who are not so noticeable are just as bad if not worse than those we know about, the game is not over yet. This game is played on many levels and yes I think the Dems need to start playing hard ball. Indeed demonstrations are ignored by the media, but much coming together, awareness, camaraderie/organization and planning was born in those get togethers.
So (IMHO) I say we should not give up the ship! It is the oligarchy that has much to loose--they are most afraid of losing big!

[bertman]

129. I agree with you, Cyrano. But I haven't lost hope. Feeling discouraged though,

especially after meeting with a group of retired 70+ year old liberals yesterday who, for the most part, seem to have lost the strength or desire to do anything other than TALK about our problems. Lots of discussion about moving to another country instead of trying to change this one.

I'm counting on the younger generation and today's working class to fight the battles, with us older folks supporting them in any way we can.

REC.

[salinen]

130. Correct

Basically, Washington had a sale, the price was too high for the commons, so now we have a government of CEO representatives who only do their bidding. How to turn this around? It'll be very ugly.

[Obama2012_4Peace]

132. We aren't losing..

I used to be one of "THEM".. Now I am one of "YOU"...

The GOP can go straight to hell for they have done, and continue to do! They had me so brainwashed, I wasn't able to see all of the positive things YOU people were doing, and all of the destructive things "They" were/are doing.. Well I see right through them now.

I was banned from this website when Speaker Pelosi was made Speaker of the House.. I claimed, ignorantly, that "Your Queen Pelosi isn't going to do anything to stop the war crimes".. I was banned for that, as I should have been.. And I sincerely apologize..

I just want you all to know that I will do everything in my power to make sure this Country Progresses.. I will stand with Obama and "YOU" no matter what.. And if the GOP and their merry band of "Right-Wing gun toting thugs" want to try me.. Well, so be it..

I do not want war anywhere.. I wish there was a peaceful non-violent solution to all the World's woes.. Unfortunately, it looks like they want war on our streets.. Let's hope God intervenes before that day comes.

Unbelievably Sad!

I Love You All!

[bbgrunt]

133. One of my great awakenings was seeing the

"focus" groups in the great election robbery of 2000. This group had several public school "teachers" who were avowedly republicans and determined to put W in office.

I didn't think anyone who chose that role in life could be a republican. I was so naive. But I still have a hard time understanding how people who choose such a mission can really be republicans.....

In any case, once the republican agenda captures the teachers and the minds of the future generations, the future is truly bleak.

[Chimichurri]

135. I was having a conversation with a union guy who despised his union, loves Ron Paul

and thinks Perry will bring tons of jobs to the U.S. He also said he will forgo Social Security because it's a Ponzi scheme :eyes:

He has been a union member for 30 years, hates being one, yet there he is - working a good paying job, benefits and STILL a union guy.

I don't understand it. Up is down, down is up and it's no longer quaint, this myopia is becoming increasingly dangerous.

[Tumbulu]

141. this is a result of the endless brainwashing of Rush Limbaugh

and the wrong wing media. The power of this multiple decade propaganda is stunning.

And the trouble is that educated people in urban areas never believe what a powerful grip this talk has had on the rest of society.

[Gregorian]

152. I see this as a monkey with it's hand in a coconut.

This may seem like a reply to a different topic. But it is related at the very foundation of what we're discussing.

What I mean is that we are at the mercy of our own actions. We're looking outside for an answer.

Over the years of living on farms and ranches, I've had the rare opportunity to meet some older people who saw what happened before and then after the time period around World War 2. Farms that were natural and healthy that ran into financial trouble. What were dairies turned into beef raising land. Farms that were in the clear turned into farms that were in financial need. A pivotal role was played by corporations. The companies that served as dealers in artificial fertilizers, weened these farmers into a way of life that gave the corporations great power and wealth, at the expense of farming, and those who farmed.

This is one example. One of how we became dependent. Look at our dependency now. I've made a few enemies in my family when the 4th of July comes around, and I'm very open about calling it Dependence Day. Most people don't get it.

I'm not going to finish this. I feel like I'm talking to an alcoholic. Preaching to the deaf. I was deaf. And blind. Only when I could see did I turn my life around. But that's personal. We're talking about getting an entire society to turn around. In a nutshell, when we support the corporations, we open ourselves up to being squashed by them. This isn't happening in a vacuum. We're the ones. It all starts at your personal consumption.

[Zoigal]

157. When i get discouraged i think of the people in

Wisconsin and their fight against their
current governor and his policies.
Renews my hope.....z