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Obama can halt Gay discharges with Exective Order, study shows

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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:00 PM
Original message
Obama can halt Gay discharges with Exective Order, study shows
This study conducted by Military Law Experts was released on May 11th, 2009. It shows that the U.S. president does have the legal authority to stop Gay discharges with a single order:



NEW STUDY: OBAMA CAN HALT GAY DISCHARGES WITH EXECUTIVE ORDER

SANTA BARBARA, CA, May 11, 2009 – A study released by the Palm Center and written by a team of military law experts shows that the president has the legal authority to end gay discharges with a single order.

After the Palm Center first proposed the executive option, the idea of ending the ban by presidential order gained momentum. Congressman Rush Holt endorsed an executive order and National Security Adviser James Jones was then asked about it by George Stephanopoulos.

Prior to the release of Palm's study, many had argued that only Congress can lift the ban on service by openly gay troops. But according to the study, Congressional approval is not needed. Dr. Aaron Belkin, Director of the Palm Center and a study co-author, said “The administration does not want to move forward on this issue because of conservative opposition from both parties in Congress, and Congress does not want to move forward without a signal from the White House. This study provides a recipe for breaking through the political deadlock, as well as a roadmap for military leaders once the civilians give the green light.”


The study says there are three legal bases giving the President this authority:

First, Congress has already granted to the Commander in Chief the statutory authority to halt military separations under 10 U.S.C. § 12305, a law which Congress titled, “Authority of President to suspend certain laws relating to promotion, retirement, and separation” Under the law “the President may suspend any provision of law relating to promotion, retirement, or separation applicable to any member of the armed forces who the President determines is essential to the national security of the United States” during a “period of national emergency.” The statute specifically defines a “national emergency” as a time when “members of a reserve component are serving involuntarily on active duty.”

The second and third bases of presidential authority are contained within the “don’t ask, don’t tell” legislation itself. The law grants to the Defense Department authority to determine the process by which discharges will be carried out, saying they will proceed “under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of Defense… in accordance with procedures set forth in such regulation." Finally, the law calls for the discharge of service members “if” a finding of homosexuality is made, but it does not require that such a finding ever be made.


Emphasis mine.

'Don't ask'! So if no one asks, then there can be finding. I wonder if someone tells without being asked, a snitch eg. can that be dismissed under the law since no one asked?

Stop Loss

How does 'Stop Loss' apply to Gay Troops?


Diane H. Mazur, Professor of Law at the University of Florida College of Law and another study co-author, said the presidential authority to stop firing gay troops, known as “stop-loss,” is different from the highly unpopular stop-loss policy that the Army recently announced it would phase out. “That use of stop-loss forcibly extends service by those who wish to leave the military,” she said, “whereas suspending discharges for homosexuality would do the opposite: allow ongoing service by those who wish to remain in uniform.” The study says the provisions of the stop-loss law, which are granted by Congress, are “sensible because they give the President authority to suspend laws relating to separation when a national emergency has strained personnel requirements.”


Are we still in a State of Emergency

Yes. America is Still in an Official State of Emergency

On September 11, 2001, the government declared a state of emergency. That declared state of emergency was formally put in writing on 9/14/2001:


NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, I hereby declare that the national emergency has existed since September 11, 2001 . . . ."
That declared state of emergency has continued in full force and effect from 9/11 to the present.
On September 10 2009, President Obama continued the state of emergency:
The terrorist threat that led to the declaration on September 14, 2001, of a national emergency continues. For this reason, I have determined that it is necessary to continue in effect after September 14, 2009, the national emergency with respect to the terrorist threat.

That declared state of emergency has continued in full force and effect from 9/11 to the present.


On September 10, 2009 President Obama extended the State of Emergency before it ended:

The White House

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
___________________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release September 10, 2009

TO THE CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES:

Section 202(d) of the National Emergencies Act, 50 U.S.C. 1622(d), provides for the automatic termination of a national emergency unless, prior to the anniversary date of its declaration, the President publishes in the Federal Register and transmits to the Congress a notice stating that the emergency is to continue in effect beyond the anniversary date. Consistent with this provision, I have sent to the Federal Register the enclosed notice, stating that the emergency declared with respect to the terrorist attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, is to continue in effect for an additional year.

The terrorist threat that led to the declaration on September 14, 2001, of a national emergency continues. For this reason, I have determined that it is necessary to continue in effect after September 14, 2009, the national emergency with respect to the terrorist threat.

BARACK OBAMA

THE WHITE HOUSE,
September 10, 2009.


This seems to eliminate all the arguments against the POTUS being able to issue and executive order halting the dismissal of Gay Troops under DADT.

The recent ruling by a Federal Judge seems to back up this study:

Federal Judge Orders 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Injunction

SAN DIEGO (Oct. 12) -- A federal judge ordered the military Tuesday to immediately stop enforcing its ban on openly gay troops, bringing the 17-year "don't ask, don't tell" policy closer than it has ever been to being abolished.

Justice Department attorneys have 60 days to appeal the injunction but did not say what their next step would be.

President Barack Obama has backed a Democratic effort in Congress to repeal the law, rather than in an executive order or in court.


I do not know why this is such a problem anymore. A majority of Americans now support the repeal of DADT:

Poll: 78 percent favor repealing 'Don't ask, don't tell'

More than three-fourths of Americans favor repealing "Don't ask, don't tell," according to a new CNN poll.

A full 78 percent of respondents said that "people who are openly gay or homosexual" should be able to serve in the armed forces. The results are similar to what CNN found in December of 2008 (81 percent) and May of 2007 (79 percent).

There doesn't seem to be any political risk for Democrats by the repeal of the law. Those numbers cross political lines and are verified in other polls.

So what is holding up granting Gays their civil rights on this issue?

Just do it!




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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. sounds like that would only last untill stop losses ended.
not a very permanent solution and just kicking the can down the road IMHO.
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. He can stop the obvious injustice NOW, while working hard to make it permanent.
Like the fierce advocate promised he would.

In a few months it's probably going to be impossible to get anything through Congress on this matter. It's the judiciary and the executive we have to rely on in this matter, and we have the perfect opportunity to make progress. Right now. Obama got a gift.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. It lasts until the U.S. is no longer in a 'State of Emergency'.
And if you read the links, the U.S. has been in a 'State of Emergency' for decades. Bush declared another one in 2001 and Obama has extended it.

If the end the 'State of Emergency' the wars would be ended. So I doubt that is going to happen.

Meantime, the law can be changed and while that is happening the dismissals can be stopped.
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Of course he can.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. My response exactly.
It has been clear all along,
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. wouldn't that require, I don't know, political courage or something?
:shrug:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
58. exactly. +1
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Mmm - quelle amuse! Nt
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Gibbs and Pelosi have suggested that he might if the Senate drops the ball.
How far that can be trusted, one can only guess (though my inclination is to believe it.)
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. They have already pretty much dropped the ball.
The lame duck session is probably the last shot they are going to have at this for a very long time.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
52. They are going to try again in the lame-duck session.
It is not guaranteed that they will fail, so it is still an "if."
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. An executive order would be a band-aid.
The only thing that will stop DADT permanently is to repeal the law. It would be terrible to stop it and then have to reinstate the law, and that could easily happen.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. yeah so lets dont apply a band aid to help the victim. uh huh sure nt
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Do you want it ended, or don't you?
Or is playing with people's lives, giving and then taking back, ok? It isn't for my family.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. That bandaid would mean possibly thousands of gay troops
not being dismissed until the 'state of emergency' ends. Which has never ended btw, since the '70s. So you prefer not to stop the bleeding of gay troops just for purity reasons? Their salaries for one and benefits would continue until the law is either rescinded or not. That's quite a big bandaid.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm so glad you're deeply worried about that scenario.
Meanwhile, don't apply a band-aid so the wounded bleeds out, eh?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. You bet I'm worried.
Don't apply the band-aid if you're going to rip the scab off later. Get it done legally and forever.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. How's that working out?
Has DADT been repealed yet? Has the President made an impassioned speech to the nation calling for it to end? Has he twisted a single arm in congress to get it done?

Wait, let me guess... He can't do anything? He's playing 10-dimensional chess? He's waiting for the right moment? It's just one song? It's just a two-minute prayer? It was just a poor choice of words?

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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Was that necessary?
It's enlightening to see all the grudges brought into one paragraph. Not.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Can YOU explain why this hasn't been done yet?
It has almost 80% support from the public, he has the authority to do it. He says he's in favor of it. People want to know why civil rights are being denied to one group of Americans when at this point, it looks like a majority of Americans want to grant those rights to Gays?

Can YOU explain it? I think Obama DOES want to end it, but I don't know why he won't. Unless the fundies in the Military are really running this country, why is this a problem anymore?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Cause they didn't have the votes.
Look at congress and tell me where they have always voted as the majority of Americans think they want them to.

It needs to be done legally to end it permanently.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I didn't realize executive orders and court decisions needed votes to pass.
Color me surprised.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Jeez
They don't.....that's why they can be overturned.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. And of course laws can't ever be repealed.
:eyes:

Can't just let the courts strike down the law because that could be undone in some undefined future, so we should just worry about repealing the law itself because the law doing so can never be repealed?

Why do I get the impression that you haven't exactly thought this through?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. It's harder to repeal a law than to just write another exec order
canceling out the last one.

Your impression is wrong.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. And it's even harder to overturn a court decision.
Judge Phillips handed Obama an end to DADT. The DOJ isn't obligated to appeal, so all Obama had to do was tell them not to do so, and just like that, DADT is gone. I can't imagine a subsequent case would result in the decision being overturned. Someone within the military would have to bring a suit against the DoD charging that the inclusion of openly gay servicemembers violated the Constitution in some manner.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. As laconicsax said in the comment above, it is even harder
to repeal a Court Order, yet the Administration is willing to fight that battle, but NOT the easy one of issueing an EO to stop dismissals of Gays until the end of the 'state of emergency'. Which could be decades from now, sadly.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #50
70. *crickets*
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. This one cannot be overturned until the President ends
the 'State of Emergency'. Read the OP. That is the beauty of this solution. He is on firm legal ground to end DADT right now. Stop making excuses for this. If there is reason, other than the ones you've given which do not apply to this situation, then provide. But I could not find any reason for him not to take a stand on this right now. The public is behind him and it's the right thing to do AND it will last for years and by then, the law can be rescinded and it will be.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Please don't assume I'm making excuses, as you charged.
In assuming the state of emergency will last forever, the President could use and Exec. Order to stop DADT in a flash. And just as fast the next guy could use an Exec. Order to start it right back up again. It's the law. Just like Obama said on the town hall today....Truman could stop the racial divide in the military because it was NOT a law, but a directive of the military.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Well, it sounds like an excuse considering the information in the OP.
Even if we are to worry about the next guy overturning it, that could be SIX YEARS from now. Do you not think it's worth six years of service with that much time to get the law changed, for thousands of Gay American Troops

Sorry, I see no reason why this is being held up, unless there is something we do not know. Obama is on the wrong side of history by not taking action on what is the Civil Rights issue of our time. He says he favors it, this is not Gay Marriage which could be seen as a religious conflict for him, it is a very secular issue with overwhelming support from the American people.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. You don't need votes for an Executive Order. Did you read
the OP or just unrec it without reading?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Is that a personal attack?
Back off, I have an opinion too.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
64. Um, no. It was a question. Which you didn't answer btw.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. It's very enlightening to see people advocate inaction on this issue.
The OP points out something significant the President could do to stop DADT dismissals and you think it's a bad idea.

I'm sorry some of us would like to see more done on the issue than asking a judge to stay her decision until the DOJ decides whether to appeal.

Actually...no, that's wrong. I'm not sorry. President Fierce Advocate has stated that he wants DADT to end, yet he does nothing about it and when a court does the work for him, he fights it.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. There are clearly many Democrats who do not believe in
equal rights for all Americans. I am pretty shocked to see the number of people here on DU who are not fighting hard to encourage the president to do what is right on this immediately. It involves NO political risk as the polls say and this is the Civil Rights issue of our time. Anyone who cares about this president's legacy should not want to see him be on the wrong side of this issue.

By the number of unrecs this post has received, it seems sadly that a fairly large number of DUers oppose Civil Rights for Gays.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. It isn't just not fighting to encourage him to do the right thing.
It's fighting those who want him to do the right thing.

As far as those who oppose equal rights, it's a symptom of the big tent.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. A big tent is fine, but letting in to many infiltrators who share
nothing in common with the owners of the tent, (see Democratic Party Platform) has been a very bad idea. There already is a party that opposes Civil Rights for all Americans. The Big Tent could survive with a few of them, but as we can see from how this Party is swinging to the right, the tent seems to growing smaller as far as Progressives and those who believe in the Party's platform are concerned.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Who are the 'infiltrators' you refer to?
That's an interesting choice of word to use when speaking about the Democratic Party.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Reagan Republicans, DLCers
who came over to the Dem Party after their own Party became too religiously radical for them. And many of them are in powerful positions to influence the direction of the party. Surely you knew that?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Nope. I've never heard a Democrat called an infiltrator before.
Does that make Bill Clinton an infiltrator, because I've read on here people call him a DLCer. Or Hillary? Or Obama...I never saw where he was anything but a Democrat.

Anyway that lets me out. I've been a Democrat since 1968, the first time I got to vote.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Was Bill Clinton ever a Republican?
Republicans who become Democrats and then influence the Party's Platform. I did not say they were necessarily politicians. I have met, through my job, many very wealthy fundraisers who used to be Republicans and have changed parties, but want to push their still very rightleaning views on the party.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. I always thought Bill Clinton was a damned good Democrat.
As for pubs becoming Dems....again it's the big tent. And we all know the repubs don't think the Democratic Party is right leaning at all.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Yes, I always thought so too. Which is why I asked the question,
And yes, we do know that Republicans don't think the Democratic Party is right-leaning, which is why, when they switch parties they bring their views with them. And when they have enough influence, meaning money, they use it to influence the party.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
48. Amazing logic, isn't it?
It would be much harder to overturn a popular EO that has been in effect for six years than the anti-civil rights for Gay crowd seem to think. Let's see Republicans try to end it after Gays have served openly for six, long years. But these ridiculous arguments against doing anything are simply not believable coming from Democrats.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Great! That's exactly what we need to stop the bleeding.
1. Stop the bleeding.
2. Fix the problem.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
60. Yes, put a bandaid on the wound then start preparing for the
final cure. Amazing that some people would rather let the bleeding continue while they try to figure out how to stop it when there is such a simple solution available.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. No, it wouldn't. It would last as long as we are in a 'State of Emergency'.
Did you read the links? It will be a long time before they end the 'state of emergency' that would mean bringing home the troops and no more funding for war. That will be give them plenty of time to change that law.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. I'd like to add to what you just pointed out.
When it comes to this bullshit "war on terrorism" Obama can be trusted to keep state of emergency going through the day he leaves office.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Exactly! So this is a perfect solution to make something good
come of the unconstitutional 'state of emergency' this country has been in for decades. Thank you!
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. So what? A band-aid is better than what we have now.
Edited on Thu Oct-14-10 06:46 PM by walldude
Every post you make on this topic is concerned with "doing it properly" because it might get re-instated. Well it might not get re-instated too. If we continue to wait till it is "politically expedient" for the Dems do do something about this then you'll be waiting forever. Which isn't a problem as long as your rights are in place eh....

I love how you are so willing to put someones elses rights on the back burner.. for their own good. :eyes:
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The Philosopher Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. But, but...
If he does anything like that, he'll be a dictator! There will be Fascism! There's no other branches of the government to oppose his actions! Keep the gay and lesbian soldiers oppressed or Obama will be Hitler!


:sarcasm:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. But we haven't surveyed the housepets yet!!
It's not proper!
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. I have surveyed our house pets, and the dog says
end DADT. The cat said if we give him some fish, he'll support ending it. That cat never gives anything without demanding something in return.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
29. The anti-civil rights for Gays contingency of unreccers is here.
But they have given no reasons why Civil Rights should be denied now considering the fact that all arguments for doing so, have been removed.

:kick: for Civil Rights for ALL AMERICANS.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. And all it takes is taking a stand.
But sadly, Obama seems incapable of doing that.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Congress could do it also.
I think the problem is with the Fundies in the military, and I think the MIC runs this country right now. Maybe NO president can act against what the MIC wants? I don't know, but there is no other logical reason not to end this anti-civil rights practice.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. I didn't read all your references, but he just said on the MTV town hall that
the difference between him doing this and Truman's act regarding servicemen, is that in this instance a specific law was passed that he has to take the proper procedures to 'un do' it.

He said the House has already given him the go-ahead to use the EO to accomplish this, and he thinks he has the votes in the Senate.

So... is it the Senate that's holding everything up? Again?

Send Biden down to kick some ass and cajole his old colleagues.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Then he needs to read this OP's links.
In the report by the Military Law experts, they state that that 'specific law' actually makes it possible for him to issues an Executive Order halting the dismissals. I though he was a Constitutional Lawyer? Maybe he hasn't seen this report

I don't think specifically it's the Senate, or even the President, I think it's the Military. Gates was having apoplexy over the judge's ruling yesterday. Our military has been 'Christianized' and I am beginning to think they run the country right now. The MIC and Big Corps seem to have taken control of the U.S.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. More than three-fourths of Americans favor repealing "Don't ask, don't tell." So don't see what
the problem is.

The same scare stories were told in my childhood about having women in the military. Somehow the military survives.

And gays have always been in the military.

knr
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #40
63. Obama is on the wrong side of history on this issue.
I would like to know who is advising him or if this is his own decision.

And I wish those who apparently oppose Civil Rights for Gays would have the courage to explain their reasons rather than trying to keep the facts from being exposed by silently unrec'ing any information that blows away the excuses.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
66. kicking this again.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. Gotta make a choice here: anything Obama does will be used by Congress as an excuse
not to act. So if ya really want a lotta nothing from Congress for the next five or ten years, lean hard on the Executive to take some purely regulatory action here. If ya really want repeal, then forget about leaning on the Executive and lean hard instead on Congress
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. But think of it this way.
If you read the links in the OP, he would be on firm legal ground now to issue an EO on the subject. Nearly 80% of the public want an end to DADT. If he does so, and he stays in office for six more years and the order stays in effect for that length of time. The public will take it for granted by them, so will the military. There will be a whole new recruitment who will not remember it being any other way.

Then imagine Congress trying to keep the law in place or (Warning! Nightmare scenario ahead!)a new GOP president tried to overturn Obama's EO, how the public would react, even the military itself, the rank and file anyhow.

And if a Dem. wins in 2016, the EO stays in effect even longer. There is now way they could backtract that decision by them. Meantime, thousands of Gays could serve openly and proudly in the military. What is wrong with that strategy as opposed to just waiting until Congress is ready during which time thousands of Gay Troops will be dismissed?
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
61. What happens if the next Prez reverses it?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-14-10 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Well, hopefully that would not be for six years.
Several things would have happened by then. First it would have become acceptable. Many new recruits would not know anything else in the military and would simply accept it as policy.

The public, already overwhelmingly in favor of it, would be even less inclined to reverse something they see no problem with.

Congress may have been persuaded to end the unconstitutional discrimination by then especially if there are more lawsuits, which I'm sure there will be.

But mostly, for six years Gay troops will be able for the first time to serve openly and proudly as they are entitled to do, in the military.

Thousands of troops will not be dismissed, not lose their careers or incomes, nor their benefits. And that would be a huge step forward towards achieving long-denied equal rights for Gays.

It's very hard to turn back the clock. So imo, this is the best way to achieve equality for Gays at this time.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
65. K & R nt
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
67. Anti Gay Civil Rights activists still
unrec'ing this post which proves that there are no excuses for this president not to act now to end the vile discrimination against American citizens who want to serve their country.

:kick: for Gay Civil Rights ~
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
68. K&R Thanks a lot, Sabrina. I have to admit to not knowing much about this topic
,mainly as it's not something that has affected me personally, and your OP has helped me understand more about what's been going on.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Hi Turborama!
Well, it's definitely the Civil Rights issue of our times. Support for Gays in the military has steadily gone up over the past number of years so the public is behind it. And now we know that the president could just make it happen, but for some reason he's stalling.

There is no excuse anymore and it would be a good campaign issue for Democrats. So, hard to understand.

But then again, this post has been unrec'ed by a large number of people here who won't say why. I guess bigotry is alive and well even here, so that probably does explain the WH reluctance to do what is right. There is no other explanation. What they HAVE said in their statements, makes little sense.
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