Texas public schools required to teach Bible this year

[Shallah Kali]

http://www.kltv.com/global/story.asp?s=10933571

The school year is almost here, and if literature of the Bible is not already offered in your child's school, it will be this fall.

Books are a common sight in classrooms around the nation, but the Bible is one book that is not. Come this fall, a Texas law says all public schools must offer information relating to the Bible in their curriculum.

"By the end of the year, what they begin to realize is that it is pervasive. You can't get away from it. The kids came back and were like 'It's everywhere,'" said John Keeling, the social studies chair at Whitehouse High School. Whitehouse already offers a Bible elective. "The purpose of a course like this isn't even really to get kids to believe it per say. It is just to appreciate the profound impact that it has had on our history and on our government," said Keeling.

The law actually passed in 2007, but this will be the first school year it is enforced because the bill says, "The provisions of this act pertaining to a school district do not take effect until the 2009-2010 school year."

[sakabatou]

1. Anoter step backward for TX

[TxRider]

108. Could be a step forward.

In a world where over 80% of people are religious, and kids will have to work for, work with, hire, vote for, and interact with religious people on a daily basis...

At least a cursory knowledge of all major religions should be taught in schools.

To not instruct kids about religion in any way does kids a great disservice.

The constitution says the state will not choose or promote a state religion, that it won't promote one over others. It does not state there can be nothing to do with religion in anything involved with the state.

[tabatha]

2. Hope they don't turn out kids lke this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVAV09-dQ8

[imdjh]

4. That girl is scary stupid nt

[Control-Z]

43. Oh. My. Gawd.

Stupid girl #1: She's Indian. It's like an African country in Asia. Do you consider yourself Asian or African?

Sweet Indian girl: I am Asian, of course.

Stoopid girl #1: But you look African, but you're Asian.

Sweet (exasperated) Indian girl: But I am not African! I am Asian!

Stoopid girl #1: Why are you so dark then?

Sweet (exasperated and extraordinarily patient) Indian girl: Because I'm from Asia!!

Stoopid girl #2: Why aren't, like, your eyes, like, pointy, or slanted?

Stoopid girl #1: Ok, it's ok, like, I know you can be what you want but that's just not what you look like.

Stoopid girl #2: Yeah, I think she's lying to us.

Sweet Indian girl tries to explain...

Stoopid girl #1: Okay, so you're Indian which is like, which is like African, but it's in Asia.

Stoopid girl #2: It's like if an Asian person and an African person had a baby.

Stoopid girl #1: Okay, that's what an Indian person is.

Un-fucking-believable! Stoopid girl 1 and 2's parents must be proud.

[LibertyLover]

90. Oooh, the stupid, it hurts

Listening to those two girls was painful. Although I did love the stunned look on Stoopid Girl #2's face when Sweet Indian Girl Saraa said that she didn't believe in Jesus. Stoopid Girl #1's double-take when Saraa in essence said that she also didn't believe in the 10 Commandments. I had to stop watching just after that because the way the 2 American girls were talking and behaving was too awful to bear.

[Control-Z]

91. I couldn't listen

to all of it either. It made me so angry. I can't imagine my children acting that way. Well, they never would. Mine are the kids who always befriend anyone new or different in the neighborhood. I love that about them. Though, I didn't realize just how much until I saw these two girls. I would be ashamed to be their parents. But then, their parents are probably just as bad. I'm still shocked. How can people be so stupid, and mean?

[LibertyLover]

97. I'm not sure how either

but I know that my daughter experiences it. She is from China, a beautiful little girl with a smile that lights up a room. I wish that I could prevent the hurt, but all I can do is love her.

[Control-Z]

117. That breaks my heart to hear.

I'm so sorry for your daughter, and for you. I know that when my kids are hurt I can actually feel their pain. But your daughter is lucky to have you loving her. That actually counts more than anyone or anything. :hug:

[XemaSab]

49. After watching that

God DEFINITELY does not exist. :banghead:

[snake in the grass]

55. I'm really tempted to label this a "Poe".

U.S. Americans are, for the most part, dumb as a box of thumb tacks, but this is too much for me to believe. If it's real, then there is no hope for us, no hope at all.

[tabatha]

69. I thought it was a skit at one time,

but I saw some of Molly's response to the comments - not good.

[Bettie]

58. Wow....hopefully Saraa is not her friend anymore!

So, now, if you have brown skin and dark hair and eyes, you must be African!

[heppcatt]

3. I took OT and NT history classes in public HS

They were not allowed to push religion in the class.
It was an elective course and i like history.

[marshall]

7. It is a foundation document for our culture and government

But then many people are professedly ignorant about it and our other foundation documents.

[create.peace]

40. the whole friggin thing?

it isn't the basis. jesus healing people supposedly? translations which were like playing 'rumor' where the original meaning becomes meaningless? this is the basis? the beatitudes have been thrown under the bus a while ago.

i know you were not serious so much so this isn't all for your post, so's you know.

[Bandit]

59. The Klan was also a part of our history and heritage, should we teach their literature as well?

:shrug:

[marshall]

73. I do think the Klan should be mentioned, yes

I'm not aware of any literature the Klan had that had as widespread an influence, over many centuries, on our culture and government. The Klan wasn't even that widespread during its biggest heyday--it was influential in areas where it was strong, but the majority of the country thankfully was spared the direct influence of that hate group.

[TxRider]

112. Yes we should

And about nazis, and other unpleasant aspects of history.

So kids will understand what the appeal was for those people and that ideology, and learn to think critically of people espousing viewpoints and be intellectually armed to not be sucked into it.

They will deal with this kind of thing for life, better to be prepared to deal with it.

[donco6]

17. The problem is that it was labeled "history". n/t

[sakabatou]

24. We learned that stuff in Social Studies

Not as history, but how it shaped society.

[Mike Daniels]

109. I think that's the right way to handle it (either that or as a Lit class)

As long as the class treats it as a bunch of stories/narratives and the role the stories play in history, literature or whatever I think that's fine. Once you start advancing the stories as some sort of "truth" without presenting other religions' stories then you start getting on shaky ground.

[Arugula Latte]

5. The American Taliban strikes again. nt

[madmax]

6. Please secede the union. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

9. Houston, we have a solution....

[imdjh]

8. Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys......

That's in the Bible. I'm trying to imagine any other book with a similar passage being allowed in a public school classroom.


There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.



King James Bible
For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Not to mention, Eve schtupped her own sons to get grandchildren. nt

[bertman]

18. Plot for a Bible-related movie??

[maglatinavi]

21. Ezekiel

you are joking... this couldn't be in the bible,,, tell me you are joking, pleeeeassssseeeee!

[sakabatou]

27. Where do you think the other women came from for Cain?

[Mojorabbit]

36. I like Oberon Zell's take on it

http://ar.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006022302742

a cute essay and here are a few snips
"Accursed and marked for fratricide, (4:16) Cain left the presence of Yahweh and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. We can assume that the phrase "left the presence of Yahweh" implies that Yahweh is a local deity, and not omnipresent. Now Eden, according to (Gen. 2:14-15), was situated at the source of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, apparently right where Lake Van is now, in Turkey."

and
But suffice it to say that those of us who are not of Semitic descent (i.e., not of the lineage of Adam and Eve) cannot share in the Original Sin that comes with that lineage. Being that the Bible is the story of that lineage, of Adam and Eve's descendants and their special relationship with their particular god, Yahweh, it follows that this is not the story of the rest of us. We may have been Cain's wife's people, or Seth's wife's people, or some other people over the hill and far away, but whichever people the rest of us are, as far as the Bible is concerned, we are the Other People, and so we are continually referred to throughout.

[madmax]

22. And to think discussing condoms caused fits. n/t

[Skidmore]

53. Now that would make an interesting lawsuit...

exposing children to the pornographic aspects of all that "begetting" in the book.

[Walk away]

10. Texas is in the bottom half of national public rankings....

every year. When my neighbor moved there last year with his libertarian family, the big joke was "all children left behind". These poor kids need to pray in school, they need a miricle if they expect to learn anything in that system.

[bulloney]

54. Who needs good education when you have football?

[Odin2005]

11. The STUPID, it BURNS!!!

:cry:

[Gman]

12. My last kid just graduated from high school, thank God Almighty

we won't have to deal with that shit.

[Liberty Belle]

13. Where's the ACLU? This must be a constitutional violation of

church/state separation.

[Cha]

15. Ugh..what's that about Church and State?

And keeping them the hell seperated?

ANd, they're all such fucking hypocrites, too..that's what is really the steaming pile of shite.

[saltpoint]

16. The Bible as Literature as a part of public education is a good idea.

Better yet to have Religion As Literature courses to include many major and minor faiths' teachings, presented in a laboratory-balanced way so as not to endorse any one of them over any other of them, and to present to students the notion that more than one religious system, including atheism, is at play across many cultures and in many eras of human existence.

How do high school English teachers teach Golding's LORD OF THE FLIES without their students understanding in advance that it is a Judeo-Christian allegory?

[charlie]

26. In Texas?

HA!

Your point is well taken, but again I say: In Texas?

HA!

Count on kids being bewildered by mini-revivals in some classrooms.

[saltpoint]

28. Charlie, you and I should be the ones who choose the teachers

to teach the course!

For a generous consulting fee, of course!


:hi:

[charlie]

35. Heh

We'd be offered bus fare to leave town.

Once.

Lord of the whut? Boy, you cain't be callin' our Lord Jesus names around here. As sure as God made the Dallas Cowboys, you'd be happier somewhere way north of where we're sitting, if you follow my drift. Now, git.

[saltpoint]

37. LOL!

[subcomhd]

70. yepper

I think saltpoint and others are correct in that a Bible as Lit. class is a good idea. I'm just trying to imagine a rural East Texas school district pulling that off without it turning into a faith-healing.

[LeftyMom]

41. If anybody taught it that way in Texas they'd be fired in a week.

Further, it's possible to explain the biblical parallels in a story without the students having read the whole thing. My Honors American Lit class my junior year of high school included a great deal of discussion about the biblical references in The Scarlet Letter and The Grapes of Wrath. Most of my classmates were Buddhist Vietnamese immigrants. If one of the referenced stories was unfamiliar one of the students who knew the context would explain it. But even most non-Christians who have lived in the US for any length of time (even in a largely Vietnamese enclave in rather secular Northern California) know most of these stories from other popular culture references to them- holiday specials, children's books, etc. So if my classmates all had a rudimentary understanding of what baptism is about (which came up in a discussion of whether Hester's throwing the patch over the brook represented rebirth) then I doubt anybody who has lived in Texas for any length of time doesn't understand most references to biblical stories and concepts.

But it's no big deal, if there's a reference to them, to stop and briefly explain Solomon and the baby or Daniel in the Lion's Den or whatever the reference is. Just as one would if there were a reference to Greeks gearing gifts if reading the Iliad wasn't in that year's lesson plan, or to Asgard if one didn't want to take much time explaining the finer points of Norse mythology.

[downeyr]

44. Agreed, but...

...the problem is that a comparative religion course isn't what they are after. They want these kids to "know" that this country was founded on "Joodayo-Krishtian valyoos". If the Koran, Bhagavad-Gita, Bible, as well as Norse, Greek/Roman, and Egyptian mythology were all taught in schools, the students would find a lot of what they learned in school that much more interesting and intricate. Also, think of how beneficial it would be to be able to see thought not just from a Anglicized or Eurocentric viewpoint.

[saltpoint]

51. A course in the various mythologies of other countries & times

would be a rea lift.

Some courses similar to that are offered as electives here and there, but damn, it would be great to make it part of the required curriculum.

[Taitertots]

77. Present it as literature

A piece of Fiction

[saltpoint]

82. I like the narratives. A narrative is a narrative is a narrative,

and the Judeo-Christian Bible has some very good ones in it.

Allegories in literature lean heavily on some of those stories. I think you strap a high school lit teacher if you do not include LORD OF THE FLIES in the assigned reading lists, and you further strap that teacher if he or she isn't allowed to teach to Golding's intent.

A good literature instructor can readily set the ground rules: Some people believe these stories to be true; some people believe them not to be true; other people just aren't certain. The task before us is not to decide who's right. The goal instead is to see how the story unfolds and what it might mean for us as individuals, and as members of society.

[Skittles]

19. isn't that what f***ing Sunday school is for?

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Somehow I suspect it will be different in emphasis from even

my bible courses in a PRIVATE SCHOOL in Mexico...

Somehow I doubt it will not be like the course in philosophy that included the Sermon on the Mount, and contemporary works, in HS. Again private school.

I am so damn glad I don't have kids, especially in Texas...

And people tell me that this revival will not be bad for the nation, or whatever is left of it.

[charlie]

23. If it was the Bhagavad Gita

the yo-yos would have burned the state house to the ground.

[heppcatt]

30. The first time i ever meditated was using intruction my English teacher gave us before an exam

Like i posted early i took Bible history classes, but I'm an agnostic Buddhist
Darn that meditation instruction.

[TexasObserver]

46. Yeah, where's the comparative religion class?

Shouldn't students learn about Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, and Judaism, too?

[Mariana]

25. "...per say."

:eyes:

[downeyr]

29. We need to ask these fucking idiots

if it would be okay for us to teach evolution in their churches and see if their heads explode!

[PDJane]

31. I am very glad to be a Canadian.

If a bible had been brought into a school class by a teacher, it had better be to demonstrate allegory. Otherwise, said teacher would have had a whole lot of angry parents on his doorstep.

Although I do have to admit that my offspring went to 'alternative' schools; for better or for worse, the standard school classes found him extremely difficult to deal with. I could empathize; it was like talking to a rocket scientist and a 5 year old who just happened to inhabit the same space. Very disconcerting. He also discovered very early that he really wasn't able to believe in religion.

[MrsBrady]

32. Genesis was already in my senior year, world literature text book...1990

they started off with it first, before Beowulf.

[Libertas1776]

33. The Texas

education system with banners flying and with drums beating we'll be marching backward to the dumb and stupid muck from which it emerged.

I think we can make an exception to the whole secession is illegal thing, as far as Texas is concerned.

[mitchum]

34. It is fine to teach it as a source for themes, allusions, etc...

In fact, one misses a great deal in western literature if one is not familiar with it and the work of the Greeks.
However, I suspect that is not how it is going to turn out.

[Libertas1776]

38. I would agree

in that regard, but like you said, that probably is not how it is going to be used.

[mitchum]

39. Yes, it will be "Praise Jaysus!"...

and no danger of
"Praise Zeus!"

[handmade34]

42. comparative religion and mythology is good stuff

but I fear that is not what those Texans are reaching for. ...actually very scary

[TexasObserver]

45. As if Bush wasn't enough of an embarrassment the past 8 years!

Our dipshit governor goes Palin and says he wants to secede.

And now this insanity.

The good news is that nothing makes teenagers hate Christianity like force feeding it to them.

I'll be shocked if there's not a federal lawsuit to stop it within the year.

[charlie]

47. He wants us to secede

And he wants more federal troops on the border, because Mexico is Gaza to our Israel. Or some such shit.

The dude can't fit a new idea into his head without one falling out the back.

[LostInAnomie]

48. If I were a tenured teacher, my students would be getting a class in...

... how fucking stupid the Bible is. I would go over every contradiction, every provable falsehood, every laughable quote, every bullshit declaration, etc. If they try to fire me, I would sue the fucking dog shit out of the administration, the school corp., and the state.

[TheMadMonk]

50. Thin edge of the wedge.

:evilgrin: FOR US. With an appropriate anti-discrimination lawsuit it should be possible to force teaching of/from other religion's writings on their little chilluns.

Either we will see a sudden reversal/back down, or heads exploding from one side of the state to the other.

Win-Win.

[MrScorpio]

52. I'd do a book report on the Song of Solomon

That would be fun

[marmar]

56. Mon dieu.....

"Texas....also has the highest dropout rate (with Florida) of the study states and one of the nation's highest illiteracy rates (33 percent)"

http://www.capolicycenter.org/texas/texas2.html


Glad to see they've got their priorities straight down there. :eyes:

[PaulaFarrell]

68. Two points

1) the study you reference is almost 15 years old

2) 1/3 of the population is not illiterate - maybe it's a misprint and meant to be 3.3% - you couldn't genuinely belive 1/3 of the population can't raed or write

[LeftHander]

57. Texas selects one text book for all students....

the Bible. Printed by Dallas Bible Printers Inc. CEO Buford Tussle. Beaufort Tussle is head of the text book committee.

[Lerkfish]

60. this is completely WRONG, unless they offer the texts of ALL religions/nonreligions

which they won't, being texas.

[Bill McBlueState]

61. I guess the churches are failing at this?

It's weird that churches would be so enthusiastic to admit defeat in their calling to teach people about the Bible, instead electing to pass the buck to the government.

[havocmom]

62. Dark Ages part 2 is the only hope the puppet masters really have of keeping people under thumb (n/t)

[Kalyke]

63. People... this is an elective course.

You don't have to take it. You don't have to have your children take it. It just has to be offered.

Of course, I think others should push for the Torah and the Qur'an to be offered as elective courses, as well, but this is an elective course.

You don't need it to graduate. Take underwater basket-weaving or band or shop instead!

[GTurck]

64. TFN...

(Texas Freedom Network)has been working on issues presented by the right-wing fundamentalist dominated State Board of Education for at least the past 10 years. The teaching of the Bible is an elective course so most Texas students in Middle School and High School won't take it. Still it is taught not as a comparative religion course or even philosophy which would have made some sense but as an end in itself. I really think those promoting this have bitten off more than they can chew. Protestant children won't get what they expect and Catholic children have a different version with 7 books not found in the King James version; probably no non-Christian in Texas will take the course since it lacks the elements that would interest them namely their own holy books and history. A great book central to European history and understanding is becoming just another textbook to be discarded once a grade is secured. Texas is a huge cosmopolitan state of over 22 million and the SBOE is not representative of the state but of the Republican Party.

[seabeyond]

67. but why learn facts when so much more fun to just take misinformed JABS at our kids

education.

[Orsino]

65. The entire Bible, presumably...

...except for the "thou shall not kill" part.

[seabeyond]

66. NO required bible in amarillo texas.... but what the hell, lets just bash education in texas....

without true knowledge.

i have not heard at all, ever, anything about bible being requried. i do not see religion a part of my kids education, EVER in the schools, classes adn teachers they have had

but so much easier, and more fun to create an illusional hell these kids sit in to tear apart the education they receive

[Ishoutandscream2]

107. Exactly. Nothing like that here at the high school I work at

And this community has its share of fundies, let me tell ya. These folks here to bash Texas really have no clue. But it's so much fun!!!!!!!

[cbdo2007]

71. The class is an elective...so who cares?

Schools are required to offer the elective, students aren't required to take it.

Next we'll get lazy kids complaining about having to take P.E.

[BuckeyeBrad]

79. Public schools can't peddle a religion

Electives shouldn't focus exclusively on one religion. There should be equivalent courses in other religions, or they should all be taught together as some sort of history of western religion or general theology course.

[cbdo2007]

81. It isn't peddling religion. It is a class about the Bible which is used by many religions.

Whether you like it or not the Bible is the most popular book in the history of the world and influences more people than any other text or person or speech or anything ever. To dismiss that and lump it together with Scientology would just be stupid. Sure, it may not make any more sense than other religions such as Scientology but just to pass it off as "peddling religion" by having an elective focus on the most influential text ever created...it actually would seem stranger to NOT have a class about it.

[donco6]

86. So we should be OK with tax dollars spreading Bible crap ever further?

The Bible may be the most popular book (depending on how you define "popular"), but it's unquestionably been the source of untold misery and death. It offers nothing of value, except perhaps a framework from which to understand the origins of racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, slavery, etc. etc.

And I have a strong suspicion that in Texas, that's not going to be the focus of this course.

[cbdo2007]

116. Your post is exactly why it SHOULD be taught as a class.

You summed it up perfectly. Thanks!

In the same way a class in historical and social context about the Nazi's doesn't "spread Nazi crap", a class about The Bible doesn't "spread Bible crap". It isn't teaching "The Bible" as the class text book, the class is *about* The Bible and it's impact on the world, good and bad.

[Luminous Animal]

119. Then they should be teaching Mien Kamph.

It's historical! What a stupid argument you are presenting.

[cbdo2007]

120. They do teach about Mien Kamph and all about the Nazi's. You didn't learn about them in school?

Or do you think that by having a class about the Nazi's it spreads their propaganda and is really trying to convert us all to be Nazis?

[Luminous Animal]

121. I'm pretty sure that Mein Kamph is not an approved text book

in public school and that an entire curriculum is not fashioned around it's contents.

[cbdo2007]

122. where did anyone say anything about The Bible being used as a text book?

It's easy for you to win an argument when you're making up stuff out of thin air.

[piratefish08]

99. why just the christian bible then? why not also teach the book of mormon?

they believe in christ too don't they?

or do they believe in the "wrong" christ?

[cbdo2007]

115. Because the class is about the Bible, they can make another class about the Book of Mormon

if they get enough interest.

I took a class in college called "Modern Japan" that was all about Japan over the past 100 years or so. Did I complain to the teacher and say, "what about china? you don't think they've done anything in the past 100 years? If you have a class about "Modern Japan" you have to have one about Modern China and Modern Korea". No - they just need to have ones they want to teach, that they think students will be interested in. The Book of Mormon doesn't hold any of the qualities I explained above about The Bible for why it should be taught in a historical and social context.

[LWolf]

72. I wonder what constraints go along with it.

I don't teach in TX, but if I did, I'd include the Bible in a unit on mythology.

[sonias]

74. ACLU settlement on the case

ACLU press release

ACLU Successfully Helps Parents Challenge Bible Classes in Texas Public Schools

The ACLU's Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief scored a resounding victory on March 5, 2008, when it settled a highly-publicized lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of a curriculum used in a bible course taught in a west Texas public school district. The settlement agreement not only mandates that the unconstitutional curriculum not be used after the current school year, but it also halts the efforts of the curriculum's developer – the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools (NCBCPS) – to get its biased curriculum into as many public school districts as it can.

(snip)
"It's important to remember that the Bible could be taught constitutionally in schools," says Gunn. "Bible education per se is not unconstitutional if the course is designed to be objective." But according to Gunn, it's hard to learn anything about the classes in the first place, because the NCBCPS is incredibly secretive its course materials. "If you try to figure out who's the author of this document, there's no author given. If you try to order a copy of the textbook on-line they won't let you do that. They say you have to call them. They say that it's being taught in many public schools across the country, but if you ask them the question, well where is it being taught? They won't answer the question."

The classes are elective and have to be taught objectively i.e. not just pushing pro-Christianity.

ACLU will be monitoring the school districts and I'm sure will be taking new cases as the school districts proceed.

Sonia

[LWolf]

89. Good to know that the ACLU is on the case.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[seabeyond]

75. and you would also include the koran and other religions teachings?

the article is misleading. or wrong. it is an elective from what i understand, but further, neither of my kids have had the option or been forced to take any religious class whatsoever. further, the teachers, adm adn schools have kept religion out of the schools

[LWolf]

88. If I were forced to include the bible, I wouldn't teach it as religion,

but as mythology. Perhaps from the perspective of Joseph Cambell. I don't think religious studies belong in school as an elective, unless it is a comparative religion course. I DO think that comparative religion should be taught, in middle and high school. In that kind of a course, looking at the bible, or the koran, or other holy books, would be appropriate. Looking at the authors and sources of those texts would also be appropriate.

Happily, I am not required to use the bible for anything in class. Since I teach rurally, and have many fundie families represented in my classes, I do need to know about the bible myself, since it's the lens they are taught to view the world through. That's not a problem, since I've read the whole thing through a couple of times.

As a middle school teacher, I DO touch on the belief systems of the civilizations we study for history; you can't leave religion out if you want to understand the context of the times. Both states I've taught in require a serious focus on the rise of judaism and islam. It usually doesn't happen in the classroom, though. Under NCLB, we are encouraged to focus on "reading," "even if you have to cut out some of the history." We don't really have time to do justice with everything in the state standards anyway, and we all know that.

If a teacher has to drop something, or to race over it superficially, it will probably be the topics that are most likely to get parents in a twist. From experience, I can tell you that, since 9/11, it's been difficult to teach about the rise of Islam. Many parents are furious that I don't teach it as the "rise of terrorism."

[Taitertots]

76. They better mention....

That the bible was written hundreds of years after Jesus died, in another country, by rich oligarchs, who didn't even speak the same language as Jesus.

Edit: The new testament

[BuckeyeBrad]

78. I think it should be studied

But I think legislating it in such a general way violates our separation of church and state. It should be incorporated into relevant topics as experts in specific fields see fit, which I'm pretty sure most schools do in some manner. For example, I learned some about the bible in both my world history and government classes. This smells like an attempt at breaking down barriers between church and state through the public school system though. I wouldn't be surprised to see this end up in court.

[piratefish08]

80. Wow - they must be adding a new "Fiction" course to the English curriculum......

:crazy:

[MadMaddie]

83. I could see if they had a course that explored world religions

abut this is just as bad as the Taliban teaching their version of the Koran.

Texas schools were already in trouble...I went to public school in TX and despite that I turned out okay.

This is really sad.

[Retrograde]

84. If they used this textbook

on the history of the Bible, or another book by the same author it could be a good senior-level class. But somehow I doubt that's the intention.

BTW, whose Bible are they going to use? The Catholic version I grew up with is different than the one most Protestants use, even ignoring the whole New Testament that Judaism doesn't have. Then there's the whole matter of translations.

[Fumesucker]

85. Perhaps they should use Asimov's Guide to the Bible?

http://www.amazon.com/Asimovs-Guide-Bible-Historical-Testaments/dp/051734582X

From an Amazon customer review:

If you have an interest in understanding the historical background, religious and political motives, fulfilled and unfulfilled prophecies, and vague allusions concerning the events and characters which fill the Bible; this secular review contains a wealth of knowledge as well as being entertaining. Each book of the Jewish Bible and New Testament are covered as well as several non-canonical books. The evolution of contemporary Judaism and Christianity thought can be traced through the mythical stories of genesis, the Yawists of ancient Israel, the influence of Babylonian, Persian, and Greek beliefs as well as the Babylonian exile and Roman persecutions which inspired biblical apocalyptic writings. Great watershed events such as the invasion and conquest of Canaan by the Hebrew tribes, the establishment of the Davidic dynasty by Samuel, the splitting of the Israel/Judah confederacy due to Solomon's policies in building the first temple, the conquest of Israel by the Assyrians, the conquest of Judah and destruction of the first temple by the Babylonians, the return from the Babylonian exile and construction of the second temple, the destruction of the second temple by the Romans, the life and crucifixion of Jesus, and the establishment of the Christian religion through Paul's efforts are all covered in this 1200+ page tome. Asimov's book reads like a historical novel which is more readable and easier to understand than reading the bible cold. After reading through this book, I feel confident in engaging my Christian and Jewish friends in discussions about the bible and in most cases, am more knowledgeable about their holy book than they are.

[crazy_vanilla]

87. weakest subject in most TX school is Science

I teach Science in TX. Now our Science education will tank even more. I wonder if any Bible-related questions will appear on the state Science test, or Science TAKS (Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills).

This is super ridiculous.

[Shallah Kali]

92. Article: Texas Board of Education Wants to Change History

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/churchstate/1726/texas_board_of_education_wants_to_change_history?page=entire

Texas is the second largest purchaser of textbooks in the country. If conservative Christians on the Texas Board of Ed panel prevail in their wish to leave Ann Hutchinson (trouble maker!), Cesar Chavez, and Thurgood Marshall out of the social studies curriculum, all US schools could be affected.

snip


just as a handful of the 15 members of the Texas Board of Education tried to hijack the educational review of the state science curriculum this past year (attempting to stack the panel of experts with anti-science activists and intelligent design advocates like Stephen Meyer of the Discovery Institute ust as a handful of the 15 members of the Texas Board of Education tried to hijack the educational review of the state science curriculum this past year (attempting to stack the panel of experts with anti-science activists and intelligent design advocates like Stephen Meyer of the Discovery Institute), the same board members are now trying to repeat the process with the social studies curriculum.

The outcome of these hearings will be used by publishers to determine what goes into their textbooks. As the second-largest bulk purchaser of textbooks in the country, Texas determines what students learn not only in Texas, but in many other states, where districts purchase the same versions.

The board members have appointed six experts, and, the choices appear carefully crafted to be fair and balanced to differing views: one side representing a commitment to sound education, and the other side representing an agenda of religious far-right extremism.

In addition to Marshall, who holds a seminary degree from Princeton and has no background in social science, they include:

David Barton, whose company, WallBuilders, helped spawn a cottage industry based on the concepts that “separation of church and state is a myth” and that our nation’s founding fathers wanted America to be a theocracy, governed by Christian principles. A self-styled historian, Barton only has an undergraduate degree in religious education. And Daniel Dreisbach, a professor in the School of Public Affairs at American University in Washington DC, who earned a law degree and a doctorate of philosophy in politics. While unlike Marshall or Barton he does at least boast some credentials, Dreisbach also believes “separation of church and state is a myth.”

On the other hand, the three other board members, Jim Kracht, professor of teaching, learning, and culture and also of geography at Texas A&M University; Jesus Francisco de la Teja, professor and chairman of the history department at Texas State University-San Marcos; and Lybeth Hodges, professor of history and government at Texas Woman’s University, all provide the panel with solid mainstream advanced academic credentials and educational experience.

In their expert reviews, Kracht, de la Teja, and Hodges offer reasonable suggestions for curriculum updates; while the other three offer suggestions that reveal a bizarre political agenda of extremist ideology and biblical exceptionalism.

For instance, Barton (former vice-chairman of the state GOP, and a Republican National Committee operative) said that Texas children should no longer be taught about “democratic” values but “republican” ones. “We don’t pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands,” he wrote.

“It’s a little ‘R’ and a little ‘D,’” Quinn said. “But they’re not fooling anyone.”

Both Barton and Phillips recommended that César Chavez (labor organizer and civil rights leader) and Thurgood Marshall (the nation’s first black US Supreme Court justice who, as a young attorney, successfully argued the public school desegregation case of Brown v. Board of Education) be removed from textbooks because they aren’t worthy role models for students. ), the same board members are now trying to repeat the process with the social studies curriculum.

The outcome of these hearings will be used by publishers to determine what goes into their textbooks. As the second-largest bulk purchaser of textbooks in the country, Texas determines what students learn not only in Texas, but in many other states, where districts purchase the same versions.

The board members have appointed six experts, and, the choices appear carefully crafted to be fair and balanced to differing views: one side representing a commitment to sound education, and the other side representing an agenda of religious far-right extremism.

In addition to Marshall, who holds a seminary degree from Princeton and has no background in social science, they include:

David Barton, whose company, WallBuilders, helped spawn a cottage industry based on the concepts that “separation of church and state is a myth” and that our nation’s founding fathers wanted America to be a theocracy, governed by Christian principles. A self-styled historian, Barton only has an undergraduate degree in religious education. And Daniel Dreisbach, a professor in the School of Public Affairs at American University in Washington DC, who earned a law degree and a doctorate of philosophy in politics. While unlike Marshall or Barton he does at least boast some credentials, Dreisbach also believes “separation of church and state is a myth.”

snip

For instance, Barton (former vice-chairman of the state GOP, and a Republican National Committee operative) said that Texas children should no longer be taught about “democratic” values but “republican” ones. “We don’t pledge allegiance to the flag and the democracy for which it stands,” he wrote.

“It’s a little ‘R’ and a little ‘D,’” Quinn said. “But they’re not fooling anyone.”

Both Barton and Phillips recommended that César Chavez (labor organizer and civil rights leader) and Thurgood Marshall (the nation’s first black US Supreme Court justice who, as a young attorney, successfully argued the public school desegregation case of Brown v. Board of Education) be removed from textbooks because they aren’t worthy role models for students.

[ravishing ruby]

93. I'm lost...What happened to church and state separation? It has nothing to do with this particular

religion; I would be just as shocked if it was Ba'hai teachings.

[Dramarama]

94. Science class right after will be fun

[frogmarch]

95. What a load of crap.

"The purpose of a course like this isn't even really to get kids to believe it per say. It is just to appreciate the profound impact that it has had on our history and on our government," said Keeling.

I call bullshit. It's ALL about religious indoctrination. If I lived in Texas, I'd fight this with everything I had.

[Beer Snob-50]

96. I just looked at the bill

and it is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. It is an elective course in the bible and how it related to government and literature. If under a certain number of people sign up for it, the school doesnot have to run it.

My school had this class way back when I was in high school (mid 70's in Massachusetts.)

[seabeyond]

98. i have asked around both the high school and middle school. STILL not hearing anything

about it. i forgot to search out principal in one school, and the highschool was lunch time. but the people i asked are clueless.

gonna look into it in next couple days, but my kids arent taking these classes adn saw nothing offered in class electives or anything else for this matter

[Beer Snob-50]

100. i hae a feeling that the rational members of the academic community in your district

don't want to deal with this and are simply going to ignore it.

actually,i think that the study of the old testament (not as a religious study) but as a literary one would be interesting because it has many different genres of literature in it.

[Robb]

102. Indeed. As a literary text it has few peers in influence

...And is worth studying in that context, IMO.

Of course, college is an excellent time to begin. I think high school is a little early, but what do I know. :shrug:

[seabeyond]

103. i do know, all the years i have participated in public schools in this area, NO teacher

administration or even school board has any desire to have religion be a part of their academics. they are, have been and i see will continue to be separate and not a part of the school system, in all ways.

i have been pta, volunteer, and active with kids education each year, spending time with teachers, principal, asst principal, and they dont want this divisiveness.

the school supported my boys in their contradict ive opinions politically and always demanded an acceptance of differing political views, insisting kids allow to intellectually express.

i see absolutely nothing indicating that our schools are trying to brainwash the kids or have a lesser motivation besides the best for the child with their education

[Beer Snob-50]

110. but do you think that we can study parts of the bible

not as a religious document but in a literary way? the teacher could read some the psalms as poetry

[seabeyond]

111. i have never had issue with outside of the box exploration. i can see all kinds of advantages

to allow children to look at bible, believers, nonbelievers and different believers if the teachers intent is to explore thought.

i have never been fearful of thinking

many people on this board has opposed that thought when i suggest that one does not have to keep children "away" from it.... whatever it may be, because they dont believe it in.

i see the greatest lessons in exploring and understanding, thinking about what we dont believe.

i like the idea of kids old enough to explore differing views allowed religion and cultural classes of exploration and understanding. i would probably encourage kids to take those classes cause that is what they enjoy. with classroom interaction.

[Beer Snob-50]

114. the old testament is great literature

there is poetry, some historical fiction (no, not adam and eve or even noah), and even some decent porn.

[seabeyond]

104. further, i agree with a elective course of all religion, in a respective, educated manner

i think that is nothing but good, for children to be open, and that includes the non believing too.

ids classes have touched on this, as they progress in years in their social studies and other courses relevant. and we have never seen a disrespect in the teaching.

[ceile]

101. My 6th grade social studies teacher must be turning in her grave.

She once told me "Don't confuse history with the Bible". This after I asked about a historical event that I hadn't read about in Sunday school.

[lunatica]

105. How boring! I foresee an uptick in dropouts

[Soylent Brice]

106. for fuck's sake.

:banghead:

[CBR]

113. My HS in WV offered this course -- Bible. I took it in 1996 or 1997.

Once the teacher had us all sit in a dark room and she explained that hell was like sitting in this dark room for eternity. She also brought in abortion pictures once. She was really good friends with my Grandma who taught Spanish. Looking back on it, I realize how nutty it was but no one said a thing.

[and-justice-for-all]

118. That is sad, those poor kids...Texas is fucked..nt