A simple question for you. Where do workers in the health insurance industry go if we get single

[CTyankee]

payer in this country?

My flaming left wing West Coast liberal daughter posed this question.

I must admit I haven't a clue. For starters, I don't know how many workers there are that would be affected.

Note I am not talking about highly paid executives (I couldn't care less about them), just ordinary paper pushers.

Government can't absorb them all. One of the essential points of a government insurance plan is that it cuts down on paper pushing.

What is the answer, folks. Any ideas?

[annabanana]

1. They can go and retrain for the new jobs in the new green-industrial

complex. Right next to the ex-auto workers, and the losers in the dot.com bust, and the people who used to make.. . .well.. ANYTHING.

[CTyankee]

8. Tell me what the health insurance paper pushers actually make?

n/t

[annabanana]

15. irrelevant. . . n/t

[HereSince1628]

2. The same place the buggy whip workers, and the steam locomotive workers and Am. textile workers went

I don't understand why that isn't perfectly clear. They go find new work, obviously a frightening thought in the midst of a recession, but that's is really that.

[CTyankee]

6. I was anticipating the buggy whip makers reply. In your two examples, these

are people who could actually make something, kind of like the auto workers. They had some transferable skills. Paper pushers are different. They don't actually produce anything. Their essential skill set is their knowledge base in the workings of their industry. Will there be another insurance industry that rises up to employ them? I don't see that, but maybe I'm not thinking creatively.

[JVS]

53. I guess we'll have to euthanize them.

[dorkulon]

54. ROFL

[JVS]

57. It would just be cruel to make them learn to process a new set of papers, no?

[dorkulon]

59. 27 B stroke 6.......27 B stroke 6.....

[KittyWampus]

63. their essential skill set is pushing paper.

[Bandit]

3. Single payer means just that... payer..

Right now it is a bunch of Insurance Companies or individuals that pay the bill. We hope soon the Government will assume that role.. It has no bearing what so ever on helth care workers..They continue on exactly as before. All government will do is pay the bills and use it's clout as a "single" payer to bring costs down. Quantity discounts you know...like IBM gets compared to say Joe the Plumber's house of plumbing..

[Atman]

7. Not the docs and nurses...the op is referring to the insurance co workers

I admit, I've wondered about that, too. The insurance industry employs a LOT of people. I know; I live near Hartford.

[CTyankee]

9. I am not talking about health care workers. I am talking about the people who currently

sit in offices and process insurance claims. If we save money but cutting out all that paperwork, we save LOTS of money. It is the essential point of our argument for single payer.

[RC]

4. Well for starts...

The upper management you don't care about can go to prison. That will create jobs.

Fargo will need sand baggers next spring again. But that doesn't pay much at all.

[hedgehog]

5. That is why I like Obama's organic conversion to single payer.

Let it happen gradually as more and more people move to Medicare for all.

BTW - the conversion to single payer should inject enough new capital into the system to take up the slack.
Consider all the people out there who would start a small business except for health care costs or fear of a catastrophic illness!

[CTyankee]

13. Yes, that could happen. It would be great if it did and I certainly see lots

of merit to that argument. The shift to single payer is a huge game changer for our society and we shouldn't fear it that much. We should probably be out making that argument (I'm sure some people already have), even tho we can't say exactly what those small businesses would be doing. However, we could argue that 20 years ago nobody had ever thought of the byproducts of the computer age...

[BR_Parkway]

49. Cutting out a major portion of the health insurance bill would do more

than giving a small tax break when it comes to job creation - and as you say, people would be more motivated to take the risk of doing their own small business rather than work in a job they hate simply for the coverage

[snowdays]

20. Conversion?? you have got to be kidding!! The insurance

companies are practically writing the Baucau bill.

[Ikonoklast]

10. Same place any other person goes when their job is sent overseas,

the company that employs them goes out of business, their competition buys them out and lays them off, permanently...

You know, like all the rest of the world who doesn't have a lifetime guaranteed job.

Why all the angst over insurance company factotums?

They produce nothing of actual value to the economy except to make their bosses even wealthier, pick your pocket by denying claims, and make health insurance even more expensive for the rest of us by being part of the enormous overhead of the health industry.

[CTyankee]

14. But do we blame the auto workers for their companies' crappily designed cars

that nobody wants to buy? There was a good deal of liberal angst over what happens to those "factotums" (factoti?).

[drm604]

11. Companies will be relieved of the burden of paying for health insurance for their employees.

This should spur job growth overall. Certainly there will be some disruption, and I would feel for the typical insurance company office worker who would have to find new employment, but overall there should be an increase in available jobs. A lot of the former insurance company employees may find work within medicare or whatever the new program is.

I also think that there would likely be an increase in health care jobs as more people are able to access the health care system.

Of course all of this assumes that we get single payer. I'm frankly skeptical that that's going to occur.

[CTyankee]

17. While some displaced insurance company workers might find work in Medicare

the fact is that we as a nation will SAVE money in their displacement.

While I don't see a mass movement of office workers shifting into actual health care, I do think there will be more health care jobs on the horizon. Some of the younger office workers may very well consider it, but quite a few just may not have the abilities necessary for lots of health care jobs at the lower levels (nurses aides, people who assist the elderly, etc, often jobs that require lots of physical labor such as lifting).

[Nikia]

12. Many have skills that could be useful with other insurance or banks

And often business in general. Yes, there will be some workers who cannot find jobs right away, but many of them are qualified for other work.

[DinahMoeHum]

16. Or the government/s could hire some of them. . .national or state level.

since they know the workings of insurance already.

[snowdays]

18. Obama went on the air just yesterday--he supports re-tooling of

workers. and these workers need to betooled--

[PufPuf23]

19. Less paper pushers and more medical professionals

The transition period is the hump to get through

More and cheaper med schools.

More doctors, nurses and other medical professionals.

More good paying jobs, available health care for all, better life quality, pursuit of happiness yep.

[AllentownJake]

33. The problem is

We don't have the capacity in the system right now for the more medical professionals you are calling for.

What do you expect, overnight that someone processing a claim in CT is suddenly going to be a nurse?

Obama has it right with the transition period.

[PufPuf23]

58. Thats why I said the transition period is the hump to get

through.

We are in agreement Jake.

I have hope that people far more capable than me can get us that future.

A transition has many faces and the first is political and I support POTUS Obama.

[msongs]

21. let's deny health care to millions to save a few thousand jobs? hmm, which is better? nt

[CTyankee]

24. It's a good point and I'm glad you brought it up.

However, it really depends on how many jobs we are really talking about. Then we have to look at the OTHER jobs that are affected. Take a look at what went on with the auto workers. No one works in a vacuum. Others can be affected, not just a bunch of office workers.

I believe that retraining is our only option here. But it will take a lot of money to make the transition. I don't think, however, that it should be an argument against providing health care to millions of people...

[madville]

22. they will stay right where they are at

Whatever deal the government works out with the insurance companies will probably require people to have some kind of supplement policies to fill whatever gaps they decide to build into the government plan.

You want that specialized cancer treatment one day, you better have a cancer supplement.

I could see them coming out with some kind of priority care insurance. Like if you are just on the goverment plan you have to wait 4 months for that knee surgery, but with our priority supplement you get a reserved priority care slot a few weeks from now instead of 4 months.

They'll find a way to work it, I don't doubt that.

[KharmaTrain]

28. Very Well Stated...

I don't see a single payer only as being the end result. There's just too much money on the table...and truth be know, there are many who will want to opt for their own policies, even if it means paying more.

I also see a big rise in the supplemental market as single payer will and should provide basic care, but as you point out, if people want more specialized care (and isn't choice a big part of this debate?) they will look to umbrella policies. Say you know there's a history of cancer or heart disease in your family, a supplemetal that costs $100 or so a month (arbitrary numbers, but far less than what one pays on full coverage) can mean savings hundreds of thousands down the road and avoid pushing the bill on the taxpayers; freeing up more money for preventing care and for those who aren't able to afford extra coverage.

Priority Care is a very good way of framing it. Or Basic Care. I see several options that can and should be part of a comprehensive package. Allow for a single payer for anyone who is unisured...but also allow for those who can afford more to do so...and in that case, Insurance companies are sure to find a new role.

[Warpy]

23. Specialized clerical workers will be absorbed into regional administration

because claims will still need to be coded and paid accordingly. Others will undoubtedly still find their niche in paid insurance when plans are written to cover things like liver transplants in active alcoholics that likely would never be covered under single payer.

The suits who make their living by denying coverage and delaying or denying care will all be on the street, as they should be.

[Greyhound]

25. Like so many before them, the job market.

OTOH, their beneficent employers are already hard at work replacing them with out-sourced contractors, so it is only a matter of time in either case.

[KeepItReal]

26. The single payer bill has money in it for education and retraining for those folks

Check out the original single payer health care bill website.

Sorry I don't have the URL handy

[CTyankee]

29. Thank you. I'll find it and forward it to my daughter.

I'm glad somebody else thought of this. Guess I'm a little late in getting into this issue...

[KeepItReal]

71. Here's the link!

"Insurance Industry

The need for private insurance would be eliminated. One single payer bill currently in the House (H.R. 1200) would provide one percent of funding for retraining displaced insurance workers during its first few years of implementation."

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what_is_single_payer.php

[geckosfeet]

27. Well - all of the paper pushers now employed in the HCI (health care industry) can't

cover all the people in the country. Also - many that have insurance are under-served.

My take is that a lot of the people who are now employed to PREVENT and MINIMIZE coverage to save money for the HCI, will simply be shifted to ensure people ARE covered and have access to health care.

I don't see the dramatic loss of HCI jobs. If anything the program will have to expand coverage to make sure that everyone has access. Perhaps, 50 years down the road as the system becomes more efficient HCI jobs will be reduced somewhat.

What I do see, and I see it as a positive, is that HCI 'executives' who make millions in salary and millions in bonuses will have their jobs eliminated. (They can then go work for AIG and BOA - snicker snicker.)

[CTyankee]

30. But there goes our argument that reducing all this paper work will save money.

When I worked for Planned Parenthood of CT (state office) we had an entire department filled with staffers who did nothing else but chase 3rd party health insurance claims of our patients. This was done to relieve the burden of paper work on health care providers at our clinics so that they concentrated just on providing care. The costs attached to having this department included a full array of benefits to all of these office workers. The day arrived when a telemarketing company in effect took the place of these salared workers and the entire department was dismantled. One of the workers in the dept. who did mostly computer work now works at Yale, probably owing to the fact that she had excellent computer skills. Those like her will probably find other employment because their skill set is transferable.

[geckosfeet]

34. No so. We will have 100% coverage - not 50% or 75%. We WILL save money.

The bottom line is that if we do not lay off one paper pusher employed by health insurance companies themselves, the cost per person covered drops by virtue of the fact that everyone is now covered.

And if we can the top 5 'executives' at each insurance company we save several hundred million (perhaps billion) right there.

[LWolf]

66. Not at all.

The savings comes from being "not for profit," which it should be.

Insurance companies aren't in business to provide clerical jobs. They're in business to make a profit, and they do, even after paying all the paper pushers. That profit can help pay for making sure that everyone is getting all the care they need.

Some of those paper pushers won't be needed, if there is less paper to push. Efficiency is a good thing. HR 676 allows for a 15 year transition period, which also allows time for staff reductions through retirements and fewer or no new hires.

[AllentownJake]

31. Probably work for the government

They will go from corporate paper pushers to government paper pushers.

Only difference is their bosses salaries will be capped.

[hlthe2b]

32. There will be plenty jobs in delivering (or helping to deliver)...

the services they have actually denied (or helped to deny) all of us all these decades.... Sorry to be cold, but that IS the reality. I can't defend those wishing to defend a failed system. Let go of that failed system and THEY like all of us will benefit.

Paper pushers can assist those who deliver the care... There is always need for those who facilitate the offices and clinic daily workings.

[AllentownJake]

36. Paper pushers aren't the problem

This backlash against the paper pushers is a little unwarranted. Most of the "paper pushers" are making $16 an hour.

The real theft in our health care industry is the executives, and they are going to simply move into another industry and rob Americans in another way.

[hlthe2b]

38. I'm not blaming paper pushers... Read my post.. there will be jobs

for them in a system that actually provides care to the masses. Everyone knows and acknowledges WHO is to blame in the current failed system.

NO one knows more than I--first hand.

[lonestarnot]

35. Paper some solar panels!

:hi:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

37. The emergancy room.

Like all the rest of the newly poor.

[L0oniX]

39. Hell ...where they belong.

[OHDEM]

40. Why should be care more about their jobs than...

manufacturing jobs (which paid better and were union) or jobs in any other industry? Should we continue to make unnecessary war to keep defense industry jobs?

I think some of them could be absorbed into the government and hopefully Obama creates more jobs to employ the rest.

I don't think paper-pushing jobs have any bearing on this important issue.

[Hepburn]

41. They have knowledge about the health care system...

...retrain them with a goal in mind of working in the Medicare system that would replace private pay insurance. Those jobs will open up when Medicare is extended to cover all.

JMHO

[mdmc]

42. they can go into real estate, law, wall street, or

direct care. If they want to be part of the health care industry, they should become direct care workers.

[liberalhistorian]

43. They would be good at working for debt collectroll

agencies. In fact, they'd be perfectly suited for it.

[rusty fender]

44. Many of the health care insurance companies

that don't already provide other types of insurance, such as car and house coverage, can switch over to that type of insurance. People will still need private insurance companies to insure everything else in their lives. In Europe, private ins. co.s still provide ins. for elective surgical procedures like cosmetic surgery; BlueX/Blue Shield will have to adjust their product accordingly, if the U.S. adopts single payer.

[Vinca]

45. Where do other out-of-work people go?

No one cared about the millions upon millions of jobs that have been outsourced over the last decade or so. All the textile workers had to find new jobs. All the small appliance assemblers had to find new jobs. All the book binders had to find new jobs. Even shrimpers had to find new jobs. There's no special class for big insurance. Their employees can close their eyes and pretend they've been outsourced like everyone else and go out and find a new job.

[tsuki]

46. The doctors who routinely deny benefits can go to work as

health care workers, mopping floor preferably.

[mainer]

56. Doctors aren't the ones denying benefits

It's non-M.D.'s who do almost all the screening.

[tsuki]

61. The doctor, Linda Peeno, who testified before Congress about

managed care and the denial of benefits said that doctors worked in that field of denying benefits to the insured.

[PassingFair]

47. The number of PEOPLE shouldn't go down much...it's the PROFIT...

and the amount of the RIP-OFF that must go.

The data must still be entered by SOMEONE!!

Hopefully in THIS country!

[yodoobo]

48. The claims processing industry will need MORE people

Their companies will be absorbed by the government, or the companies dissolved. Either way.

Because the number insured will be far far higher, the needs will be far higher.

All the people in the industry will have a much better job waiting them in the government, AND we'll have to train up even more.

Its a win for the currently employed and a win for those currently unable to get a job.

[SoCalDem]

50. "Workers" in the health field will still be needed

in fact MORE people will suddenly be seeking long avoided health care...

BUT the paper pushers who work for the insurance companies may be needing to find new positions..just as the buggy-whip makers and wheelwrights had to do when automobiles came along, and how the "phone operators" had to do when people's phones got super-sophisticated..

Every major change creates some upheaval, but when it's for the benefit of the whole, it's got to be done.. One thing that would NOT affect the ones who lose jobs is their ability to GET medical care for themselves & their families..

[Deep13]

51. Somewhere else.

I don't mean to be crass as I really do regret anyone's loss of income. Nevertheless, the need to pay people like that is one of the reasons health care is so expensive.

[JVS]

52. Nobody gave a shit about what happened to workers in other industries, why start now?

They can go to community college like everyone else.

[CTyankee]

60. Or perhaps they can go to work for the community colleges.

Since Obama isletting people who go back to school retain their unemployment insurance, there will be even more incentive for people to go back to school. The colleges, particularly the comm. colleges, will need more staffing.

I've been retired for 2 years but I was asked to consider teaching a course, as an adjunct, at a local 4 year liberal arts college. I'm in my 60s! I was amazed but then I realized that the schools are scrambling for all those people heading back for the degree or to change their careers.

[dorkulon]

55. Paper pushers are paper pushers. They can work in any other office environment.

I think it's kind of funny that we're worried about eliminating a bloated private bureaucracy, while the right's worried about growing a public one.

[dysfunctional press]

62. simple answer: many to the government entity that would replace their current employers

there will still be PLENTY of papers to push.

others will be absorbed into other jobs/fields/careers created by the expanding economy that single-payer could help to create.

[rucky]

64. They'll have to find honest jobs, I guess.

sorry if that was mean, but we shouldn't support an unethical and inhumane industry just to keep people employed. Same goes for people in pharma sales.

On the flipside of that, maybe if we legalized pot, they could be retrained as dealers?

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. Risk Management is a huge industry

We will still have plenty of insurance businesses.

[bemildred]

67. The same place people with no health insurance, or no job of any other sort go.

If you don't support the government being responsible for taking care of it's citizens, then you are by your own choice on your own.

[TreasonousBastard]

68. They might have the same jobs they have now...

The geniuses debating this on the internet haven't noticed that Medicare contracts out claims services to...

(get this...)

insurance companies.

[JerseygirlCT]

69. I don't know. But I don't think concern over their jobs is enough

of a reason to hold the entire country hostage.

If the jobs need to go, then they'll need to look to new ways to use whatever skills they have, or retrain.

But in the meantime, we're all paying through the nose to supports armies of paper-pushers and bureaucrats at these companies. AND making the top execs of said companies very, very wealthy.

[Occam Bandage]

70. Actuaries can work in different insurance industries. So can claims adjusters.

People who have health-care-specific training can be retrained; I don't believe many lack any skills whatsoever that cannot be used outside of the health insurance industry. Not all will necessarily lose their jobs; presumably many will keep private care for the higher level of guaranteed service that provides.