Poverty in America: No Shirt, No Shoes – No Service

[NanceGreggs]

I am a fourth-grader, and I live with my mom and two brothers. We sleep in our winter jackets and lots of blankets, because mom says we can’t afford the heating bills. She says don’t tell anyone, because they might come and take us away from her. She cries a lot. I figure I’m not the only kid who lives like this. And I think if some people knew our situation, they might help my mom out. Why doesn’t anyone know about us?

I am a Nam vet. I have lived on the street for so long, I don’t even remember how many years it’s been. I put my life on the line for my country. When I came home, I was pretty messed up – a lot of us came home that way. A lot of us now live the way I do. Why are we invisible?

I am a housewife. My husband and I worked hard all our lives, and always put something aside for a rainy day. But when that rainy day came, it poured. My husband lost his job, and then he got sick – real sick. The medical bills wiped us out. Now we live on the social security checks, but with the price of things being what they are nowadays, they don’t go far. We go to the food bank regular now, because otherwise we wouldn’t eat. I am ashamed to have to take handouts. But we have no choice. And the bills keep piling up, too. We know we ain’t the only folks living this life – being afraid every day, knowing what little we got might be gone someday soon. Why are people like us a secret?

Statistics show that 37 million Americans (one-in-eight) lived below the federal poverty line in 2005. The poorest age group is children, with more than one in six living in official poverty at any given time.

Mark Greenberg, director of the Task Force on Poverty at the Center for American Progress, wrote in the American Prospect in April 2007:
“Studies of a minimally decent standard of living routinely find that the typical cost is twice as high as the poverty line or higher. Ninety million Americans—nearly one-third of the nation—have household incomes below twice the poverty line, a figure far larger than the official number of 37 million in poverty.”

And yet these people, our fellow citizens – thanks to our beloved news media – go unheard, unknown, unseen.

FAIR’s study examined the three weeknight network newscasts—ABC World News, CBS Evening News and NBC Nightly News—over a 38-month period (9/11/03– 10/30/06). We considered every story mentioning the words “poverty,” “low income,” “homeless,” “welfare” or “food stamps,” compiling a list of all stories that dealt with issues of poverty in more than a passing manner.

It was a short list. During the more than three years studied, there were just 58 stories about poverty on the three network newscasts, including just 191 quoted sources.
For perspective, a FAIR study of network newscasts (Extra!, 5–6/02) found that in just one year (2001), the three networks included a total of 14,632 sources. Assuming that the nightly news still features a like number of sources per year, that would amount to some 46,000 sources over the 38 months of FAIR’s study, making sources appearing in poverty stories just 0.4 percent of overall sources.

Among individual networks, NBC ran the most stories related to poverty, with 25, followed close behind by CBS with 22. ABC aired only 11 stories addressing poverty in the 38-month study period—a rate of about one every 15 weeks.

People who go unheard cannot ask for the help they need. People who are rendered invisible cannot capture the attention of those in a position to assist. People who live their lives in secret – out of shame for the situation they find themselves in, or fear of losing children they are struggling to care for – cannot hope to be lifted to their rightful place in our society when no one knows of their plight.

Americans are among the most generous people in the world. We watched with a sense of pride as the money poured in for those affected by the events of 9-11, for the Katrina victims who lost everything. We had a sense of caring for each other, and of feeling good about ourselves as a nation because we do care.

We have seen, time and again, how people will reach out to others of like mind, and organize themselves to ensure that their representatives in government are made to listen and take action when an injustice is perceived, when a wrong needs to be made right.

But such actions are, more often than not, prompted by media attention to a problem that needs addressing, a situation that requires rectification.

This is why media coverage of poverty in America, the fact that is widespread and affects so many of us, is vital. And yet it is virtually non-existent.

Imagine the call-to-action that would be triggered if the nightly news was as interested in interviewing a homeless vet as they are in talking about a celebrity’s messy divorce.

Imagine the increase in donations to food banks and shelters if news networks focused as much attention on the hungry and the homeless as they do on the utter nonsense they fill the airwaves with each and every day.

Imagine the outrage – and the ensuing demand for increased social safety-nets, low income housing, more tax dollars spent on ensuring that all children were well-fed – if people turned on their TV and heard the staggering statistics – 37 million Americans – as often as they heard the numbers of viewers who tune-in to American Idol each week.

Imagine.

From the same FAIR study quoted above:

In a handful of stories—primarily on CBS—poverty issues were discussed solely by experts, with no poor people appearing on-screen at all. A CBS story (2/7/05) on George W. Bush’s proposed budget cuts to both farm aid and block grants to fight hunger and homelessness quoted solely elected officials, think tankers and executives of food bank.

The flip side of these stories with no poor sources are those that focus on the poor, but avoid any discussion of policy issues at all. CBS, again, is the prime culprit, having run segments on predatory lending (9/5/03), the difficulties of finding child care (11/25/03) and increasing economic polarization (12/8/05) that studiously avoided asking how government policies had helped to cause or failed to alleviate these problems. The last one blamed the “changing economy” for increased economic polarization, with no indication of what changes were made or who made them.

It’s simple. People who know about a situation tend to act, and demand action of others, especially their government. The informed can – and usually will – do something. The blissfully unaware do nothing at all.

Poverty in America is real; it affects real people, and it isn’t going to go away by itself. In fact, the numbers of those affected by it are increasing, and there’s no end in sight.

Ensuring that our fellow citizens are housed, clothed, and fed is the business of all Americans – and to get that business off-the-ground, up and running, and moving towards success, it has to be advertised by more than word-of-mouth.


You and I know that – now let them know:

Progressive Media:
MoveOn.org, Press Office: http://www.moveon.org/feedback/press
Daily Kos, Kos: [email protected]
Talking Points Memo, Josh Marshall: [email protected]
Truthout.org: http://www.truthout.org/contactus (web form)
Huffington Post: [email protected]

Progressive Radio:
Air America: [email protected]

Ed Schultz Show, Ed Schultz: [email protected]
Ed Schultz Show, overall show content: [email protected]

Sirius Left, Alex Bennett: [email protected]
Sirius Left, Doug Stephan: [email protected]
Sirius Left, Lynn Samuels, [email protected]
Sirius Left, Peter B. Collins, [email protected]
Sirius Left, The Young Turks, [email protected]
Sirius Left, Thom Hartmann, [email protected]

Ring Of Fire Radio/GoLeft TV: www.ringoffireradio.com

TV
ABC News contact info page: http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3068843
CBS News contact info page: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/feedback/fb_news_form.shtml
MSNBC/NBC News contact info page: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10285339/
CNN contact info page: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/

This essay reposted in full by permission of peoplesing.org.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

1. THANK THE REPUBLICAN NEWS LIARS FOR THIS

[MadHound]

2. It's not just the current crop

Nor is it just the Republicans. It's a bipartisan thing, trust me, I know all too well since I walked in those shoes for two long years.

Poverty and homelessness has been an untold horror story for years and decades now.

[bobbolink]

47. It is WAAAY past time to stop blaming the Republicans!

This is on the shoulders of EVERYONE, and that includes "progressives".

I want you to take a good look at this research on media... NOTICE it includes "PROGRESSIVE" outlets as well as corporate, and NOTICE how well the "progressives" have done:

[lib2DaBone]

56. Very good post...except we fail to see that NeoCons control the airwaves..

Clear Channel.. Fox.. Sinclair.... The dialog is set by the far-right religious fanatics.

So Yes.. WE CAN BLAME THE REPUBLICANS.

[bobbolink]

59. So, the neocons control truthout? The neocons control Huffington Post???

The neocons control DU?

Really?

You sincerely believe that?

[Two Americas]

98. here is the problem with that

Blaming the Republicans for this problem is like blaming the rain when your roof leaks.

The Republicans are doing what they have always done. They promote the interests of the wealthy and powerful few, consistently and reliably. Nothing has changed there. The difference now is that the ones we have depended upon to stop them have not.

When the roof leaks don't blame the rain, take it up with the folks you have been electing and paying to fix the roof and keep the rain out. Those folks have been busy helping the Republicans tear the shingles out, and telling us that were it not for them even more shingles would be missing so we should feel gratitude, and keep hiring them and trusting them.

Well, the roof is just about gone now, and the water is pouring in everywhere. I am tired of blaming the rain for that. I don't care that the roofers have good intentions, or are better than the rain. What's the difference? We are all drowning.

[Raksha]

165. Very well stated!

Re Blaming the Republicans for this problem is like blaming the rain when your roof leaks.

The Republicans are doing what they have always done. They promote the interests of the wealthy and powerful few, consistently and reliably. Nothing has changed there. The difference now is that the ones we have depended upon to stop them have not.

That's a powerful analogy, and very true.

[Baby Snooks]

80. Madame Speaker...

One of the problems is we have a Speaker of the House who reacted to protestors outside of her home by commenting that if they had been homeless people she could have called the police and had them arrested.

The people of San Francisco apparently share her view on homelessness since indeed that is the law in San Francisco. Homeless people are considered a nuisance and can be arrested on that basis.

The majority of people in this country also consider them nuisances. But they also fear them. They are like mirrors. "There but for the grace of god go I." More and more who have said that have found themselves going there. And they, too, encounter the attitude.

I have two former friends who are wealthy. One of them is a member of DU. I don't think she realizes who I am. Both chose to look upon my situation as one I brought on myself. I suppose because stalking scares them. It scares most people. And so, well, it's always easier to blame the victim for being a victim. Homeless people are victims. Of the same attitudes that stalking victims are victims of. Victims are mirrors. It could happen to "me" and so "me" decides they really aren't victims.

Victims are usually dismissed on the basis that they lost control of their lives. We are in control of our lives. When we lose control of our lives, we become victims. Such arrogance we have in our society.

I've heard people dismiss robbery victims with the same attitude. They should have been more observant. They should have been carrying a gun. They should have had a burglar alarm system. And of course we still blame sexual assault and rape victims for being victims. They are often "guilty victims" as many stalking victims are. They must have done something to invite it. There are still prosecutors in this country who will ask a rape victim why they weren't wearning a bra.

One of the worst of the "pop psychology" maxims was the "there are no victims, only volunteers." No one volunteers to be a stalking victim. No one volunteers to become homeless. Ironic, to me, that January is both National Poverty Awareness Month and National Stalking Awareness Month. Many stalking victims lose their jobs because of the post traumatic stress. Many of them become homeless.

Many veterans become homeless because of the same attitude. And of a worse attitude. That post traumatic stress syndrome/disorder is merely an indication of a more severe mental disorder. And so as stalking victims often lose their jobs, veterans are often discharged and dumped on that basis. By our government. And Congress knows it. And Congress says nothing. They are not victims. They are mentally ill. And shouldn't have been in the military. Most were just fine. Until they went into the military. And found themselves fighting a war that had no moral justification.

The justice system in this country revictimizes stalking victims. The military revictimizes veterans. I cannot discuss it rationally because it angers me so much. No one who served their country should be homeless. It is beyond shameful.

I know about post traumatic stress because I have had to deal with it most of my life. First as a result of being at an elementary school that was the scene of a madman blowing himself up along with his son and several others including students who were on a patio where I might have been had it not been for Fate. Fate. What really controls our lives.

Then years later as a result of two stalking situations over the course of 20 years. Fate again. Post traumatic stress syndrome/disorder is horrible. Most people function 24/7. I joke sometimes and tell people I function 15/5.

Stalking victims like veterans suffer from post traumatic stress caused by ongoing trauma. Our veterans suffer from it because of the reality of an unjust war that they cannot justify within themselves. It happened in Vietnam. It has happened twice in Iraq. They realize they are killing people for no legitimate reason. And are traumatized as a result. It is worse for veterans because they are both victims and victimizers. And they have no choice in terms of having had control over either. Just as stalking victims have no control. I just cannot fathom people telling anyone suffering from post traumatic stress that they simply have lost control of their lives. But that is what stalking victims are told. And what veterans are told. It is such an easy dismissal. There are so many parallels between what happens to stalking victims and what happens to veterans. Mainly the revictimization by society.

Did we all lose control of our lives on 9/11? We are a nation of victims at this point. But most don't want to think of themselves that way. So they revictimize other victims. Which in some perverse way makes them feel more in control of their lives.

I hope I never become homeless. But I have been so close so many times. It angers me. But not as much as it angers me about so many who have become homeless and dismissed by our society. Particularly when they are dismissed on the basis of their having lost control of their lives.

And most particularly with regard to our veterans. If we don't care about our veterans, it is obvious we don't care about anyone. That is really the problem with dealing with the problem of poverty and the problem of homelessness. As a society, we don't care. They become a nuisance. We want them "out of sight, out of mind."

And that is why the problem isn't addressed by Congress. Why there is nothing in the "stimulus package" to help those who have already lost everything. They are, really, just a nuisance. They should just go find an underpass somewhere and do everyone a favor and drop dead.

It was bad enough that Madame Speaker said what she did. It is worse that she obviously meant what she said. Not that I have the money to make any impact but I will never spend another dime on anything that benefits San Francisco. Because of San Francisco returning Madame Speaker to Congress. But also because of the law in San Francisco. I do tell people in the grocery store not to buy Starkist Tuna or Rice a Roni. I don't. Even though I miss Rice a Roni. I'm an absolute terror in the grocery store. But what a wonderful place to boycott!

Arrest the homeless. What a wonderful solution. It comforts me to know that in San Francisco the homeless are just arrested and thrown in jail. Obviously in the hope they will leave San Francisco.

Other cities are following the example of San Francisco. What a shameful nation we are. And becoming moreso every day it seems.

We are a falling empire. Because of our attitudes towards each other. And towards those who Fate rather than choice has put on the streets.

[bobbolink]

125. "What a shameful nation we are."

And where's the outrage?

Where is the real information on the "progressive" radio stations and blogs and magazine????

Where is the outrage and ACTION?

Where is the willingness to DEMAND low-income housing?

[maryf]

179. "We are a falling empire. Because of our attitudes towards each other."

Thanks Baby Snooks great post...

[maryf]

180. ITS A CRIME TO BE HOMELESS in many cities...Here's some info...

A Dream Denied: The Criminalization of Homelessness in U.S. Cities

NCH Fact Sheet
Published by the National Coalition for the Homeless, June 2008

OVERVIEW OF THE NATIONAL PROBLEM

The housing and homelessness crisis in the United States has worsened with many cities reporting an increase in demands for emergency shelter. In 2007, ten of the 23 cities surveyed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors reported an increase in the number of households with children accessing shelters and transitional housing. Six of these 23 cities also reported an increase in the number of individuals accessing these services. Even while the requests for emergency shelter increase, cities do not have adequate shelter space to meet the need. In the 23 cities surveyed in the U.S. Conference of Mayors Hunger and Homelessness Survey for 2007, 12 cities noted that they had to turn people away because of a lack of capacity often or always. <1> The lack of available shelter space – a situation made worse by the Gulf Coast hurricanes - leaves many homeless persons with no choice but to struggle to survive on the streets of our cities. Over the course of the year, 3.5 million Americans will experience homelessness,<2> and this number is only expected to increase in 2008 due to the foreclosure crisis, increases in poverty, and a pattern of steady increases in family homelessness. <3>

AN UNJUST RESPONSE TO THE PROBLEM

An unfortunate trend in cities around the country over the past 25 years has been to turn to the criminal justice system to respond to people living in public spaces. This trend includes measures that target homeless people by making it illegal to perform life-sustaining activities in public. These measures prohibit activities such as sleeping/camping, eating, sitting, and begging in public spaces, usually including criminal penalties for violation of these laws.

TYPES OF CRIMINALIZATION MEASURES

The criminalization of homelessness takes many forms, including:

* Legislation that makes it illegal to sleep, sit, or store personal belongings in public spaces in cities where people are forced to live in public spaces;
* Selective enforcement of more neutral laws, such as loitering or open container laws, against homeless persons;
* Sweeps of city areas where homeless persons are living to drive them out of the area, frequently resulting in the destruction of those persons’ personal property, including important personal documents and medication; and
* Laws that punish people for begging or panhandling to move poor or homeless persons out of a city or downtown area.

Criminalization Measures Have Increased

City ordinances frequently serve as a prominent tool to criminalize homelessness. Of the 224 cities surveyed for our report:

* 28% prohibit “camping” in particular public places in the city and 16% had city-wide prohibitions on “camping.”
* 27% prohibit sitting/lying in certain public places.
* 39% prohibit loitering in particular public areas and 16% prohibit loitering city-wide.
* 43% prohibit begging in particular public places; 45% prohibit aggressive panhandling and 21% have city-wide prohibitions on begging.

The trend of criminalizing homelessness appears to be growing. Of the 67 cities surveyed in both NCH and NLCHP’s last joint report in 2002 and in this report:

* There is a 12% increase laws prohibiting begging in certain public places and an 18% increase in laws that prohibit aggressive panhandling.
* There is a 14% increase in laws prohibiting sitting or lying in certain public spaces.
* There is a 3% increase in laws prohibiting loitering, loafing, or vagrancy laws.

Another trend documented in the report is increased city efforts to target homeless persons indirectly by placing restrictions on providers serving food to poor and homeless persons in public spaces.

While cities are cracking down on homeless persons living in public spaces, according to the latest U.S. Conference of Mayors Hunger and Homelessness report, cities do not have adequate shelter to meet the need.

The Meanest Cities

Although some of the report’s top 20 meanest cities have made some efforts to address homelessness in their communities, the punitive practices highlighted in the report impede progress in solving the problem. The top 20 meanest cities were chosen based on the number of anti-homeless laws in the city, the enforcement of those laws and severities of penalties, the general political climate toward homeless people in the city, local advocate support for the meanest designation, the city’s history of criminalization measures, and the existence of pending or recently enacted criminalization legislation in the city.

1. Sarasota, FL
2. Lawrence, KS
3. Little Rock, AR
4. Atlanta, GA
5. Las Vegas, NV
6. Dallas, TX
7. Houston, TX
8. San Juan, PR
9. Santa Monica, CA
10. Flagstaff, AZ
11. San Francisco, CA
12. Chicago, CA
13. San Antonio, TX
14. New York City, NY
15. Austin, TX
16. Anchorage, AK
17. Phoenix, AZ
18. Los Angeles, CA
19. St. Louis, MO
20. Pittsburgh, PA

The Criminalization of Homelessness report comes out every two years, in January.
The entire report is available on NCH’s website: (www.nationalhomeless.org).

Source: National Coalition for the Homeless (NCH) and National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty (NLCHP), Illegal to be Homeless: The Criminalization of Homelessness in the United States (2002); NCH, Illegal to be Homeless: The Criminalization of Homelessness in the United States (2003); NCH, Illegal to be Homeless: The Criminalization of Homelessness in the United States (2004); NCH and NLCHP, A Dream Denied: The Criminalization of Homelessness in U.S. Cities (2006)

U.S. Conference of Mayors, A Status Report on Hunger and Homelessness in America’s Cities: A 23-City Survey (2007).

Martha Burt et al., Helping America’s Homeless49-50 (The Urban Institute Press, 2001).

U.S. Conference of Mayors, A Status Report on Hunger and Homelessness in America’s Cities: A 23-City Survey (2007).

[caseycoon]

106. EXACTLY!

Even here on DU poverty is not a "popular" subject. It is discounted by way too many of the very people you would expect to actually CARE about people. :cry:

[JeffR]

3. For all that the media has failed us in so many ways

This, to my mind, is the worst. People without health coverage, enough to eat, the simple dignity of a safe corner of the world to call home. Millions of people. And yet it seems there's just no story here deemed worthy of mention. How many Americans need to be poor to make the media pay attention. 50 million? 75? 100 million?

[Zodiak]

6. It's already a 100 million

The article states that the poverty line is only half of where it needs to be, and by that standard, 1/3 of Americans are in poverty.

Coupled with this economic collapse, we are going to have a hell of a poverty shit-storm in this country. And it will start when the people who are poor realize how many of them there are and decide to do something about it. Hence the news won't mention it....and never will...even if it was 250 million.

[JeffR]

10. I don't know if that tipping point can be reached, Zodiak.

But you make a good point about part of the complex agenda that keeps poverty out of the news.

[ogneopasno]

7. Y'know, the newspaper I resigned from a few months ago did a monthly series on poverty in the area.

Really, there's only so much you can say about it.

[JeffR]

9. There's only so much that can be said about most things

and while newspapers often do a much better job of covering poverty issues than electronic media, the cable news networks devote literally hours each day to fluff pieces, barely revised Heritage Foundation talking points, celebrity gossip and other such mind-numbing trash. There's only so much you can say about those things as well, and the "news" networks take that, multiply it by a factor of 10 or 100, and keep churning out their drivel.

[ogneopasno]

12. OK, so you're talking about the TV media.

[JeffR]

14. Not only. The "progressive Internet" has also dropped the ball on coverage.

As has radio. And the truly influential newspapers out there (NY Times, Washington Post, etc.) haven't done much better from what I've seen.

Smaller market newspapers seem to have done a disproportionate share of the heavy lifting when it comes to investigative reporting on poverty.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JeffR]

32. I thought the point raised about newspaper coverage was worthwhile.

Though I don't get the "only so much to say" contention. There's only so much to say about life and death, I guess - which is what this is really about - and yet the human race has been talking about life and death forever.

[ogneopasno]

37. Wait, me?

:shrug:

[mentalslavery]

146. For those who are "down" only. What middle class assholes

like ourselves need to do is take our asses to the slums, give the willing poor and homeless suits and ties and handcuffs. Lead them into some of the most reckless corps, (using our upper middle class appearance to secure a sneak attack) and handcuff ourselves to the people, chairs, and infrastructure.

If we have large numbers, if we are willing to be arrested and suffer brutality, the media will cover it. If we do it non-violently, we will win. It will be painful. If not via protest like this, then something equality painful will be the only way to achieve stated goals. The poor are down, the question is, are we?

[Two Americas]

25. how about right here?

There is s deep fear and reluctance on the part of most here to discuss this, and that is often expressed in cruel and callous ways.

[madamesilverspurs]

40. Just a couple of days ago

I did an OP about living on just a Social Security check.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4929025

Most of the respondents, about 25, are in that situation or know someone who is. It isn't easy to put yourself out there like that.

We do live in a society that worships wealth and shames those without it. We can all hope for that to change. In the meanwhile, try asking your landlord to accept hope in lieu of a check.

[Raksha]

75. No, it isn't easy to put yourself out there.

I have to plead guilty...I am living (or trying to live) on just a Social Security check, and I read your post but didn't post anything. As usual, I told myself "later, when I have more time." The truth is that I don't like to talk about it, EVEN when people in the same situation are also talking about it, and even when I identify with them to the point where it's painful.

And it's been much, MUCH worse in the past. There was a time not so long ago when I was living on a V.A. widow's pension--about half what I get now. Obviously I couldn't afford an apartment during those years--I lived in rented rooms in other people's houses. If I ever write a book about my experiences, that's going to be the title of it: "Other People's Houses." I decided that years ago, and there's even an image in my mind's eye of the cover. But I haven't written a word of it yet. Living it was bad enough, and I'm not anxious to re-live it. Emotionally, I am still dealing with the fallout. The experience of being a throwaway person changes you in some undesirable ways.

I seem to be slowly opening up, though, or I couldn't have said even this much. I think knowing there are so many others in the same boat--and so many "new poor" as a result of the insane economic policies of the last eight years--has given me courage I didn't have before. Also, this poverty series on DU has helped a lot, even if I didn't post on your thread. I guess this post is kind of a delayed reaction to it, and I appreciate the encouragement of bobbolink and everyone else who brought it front and center. Bobbie sent me PM notices whenever there was a new post in the series, so I didn't miss any of them.

Yes, it's difficult to put yourself out there. But eventually we're going to have to speak out--ALL of us (even me), until there are too many of us to ignore.

[Two Americas]

78. thank you Raksha

"The experience of being a throwaway person changes you..."

It is not easy to talk about.

[unapatriciated]

114. throwaway person

that says it in a nut shell. too many of our programs are set up to insure the poor and disabled stay down at the bottom.
My son is on SSI and struggles daily. He would love to make his long time girlfriend (wife and partner in our eyes) his wife in the eyes of the state.
He can't because her earnings (that barley take care of her son and herself) would put them over what he is allowed and drastically cut his medical and SSi check.
So they live in fear of someone finding out and notifying the state. He is the only father her child has known yet he has no legal rights and she has no legal rights when it comes to my son should he be hospitalized (which he has on many occasions throughout their relationship).
The programs we have now make it impossible for the poor to actually get a hand up out of poverty. They loose most if not all of their safety net should they improve their conditions by the slightest of margins.

[Why Syzygy]

91. Now, this is a great post.

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I rented from others for eight years. Throw-away is aptly termed.
The "less thans". I knee jerk at every insult. But mostly hide. Maybe that's why we are invisible. We hide ourselves.
I sure don't want to be made a spectacle of on the PM news.

I finally got the impetus to move to a city I could enjoy and try making it on my own. That's a book too. I lived with the housed homeless. Kooky characters don't faze me. The guy sitting at the bus stop with a beer? He'll offer you some. Kind people. Not always to the end, however. After four years of getting my butt kicked, I had to move back and depend on someone else again. My inner voice tells me Adults shouldn't have to do that. Flawed.

I'm glad you spoke up. Maybe as each frightened voice is emboldened, we will find the better way.

Sometime we might want to tell how we got here...

.. I also wonder why some of us don't house together. I don't mind living with respectful people. I'm not greedy. I love living alone, but mutual respect can almost meet that desire.

[Hannah Bell]

92. definitely. & until you experience it, i think it's next to impossible to understand

why it would.

eveything thinks they'd remain "themselves" without the supports of whatever job, status, money, they have. everything thinks their friends, family, neighbors would treat them the same regardless. but everything shifts, including one's identity. & you never come back from it, even if you recover economically.

[mentalslavery]

140. True, poverty almost instantly changes personality.

Studies have been done regarding this issue and their findings are very interesting. For those that are interested google poverty and mental health and take a walk on the wide-side. I have conducted some experiments on myself that were inspired by some of the research. I don't recommend testing shit on yourself, its really fucked up.

[bobbolink]

150. Would you be willing to write more on this?

Most people on DU aren't even willing to write a letter to their congressperson regarding low-income housing.

So, googling something they probably wouldn't want to read about isn't very likely.

It sounds like you have come across something VERY interesting, and I'd like to know more, and have others know more.

Please consider writing more and this, and let me know.

Thanks for the heads up!

:hi:

[mentalslavery]

190. sure. I'll find my field notes and post it in the poverty forum

under "experimental studies on poverty and imprisonment".

[bobbolink]

195. That would be great. Thank you! I'll look for it.

[mamameow]

120. me too

my husband's last pension check ended 12/08. he passed away 7/22/06. i am now on social security. i am living in a motorhome which i can no longer afford. we were full time r.v.ers. no other home, 10 year old car minimal clothes and furnishings. i just got a book on how to file for bankruptcy in this state. i am shocked. they do not let you keep anything over 4000 in personal belongings, no you have to inventory what is exempt. you can keep your wheelchair, a prosthesis. you can keep pets as long as they are not worth over 500. you can keep 2 lamps, one end table, one bed per person up to 4 persons (guess after 4 then you have to start sleeping together) one piece of art work but not over a certain amount. you can keep 4 dining room chairs but not more than 4 plus the table of course. if your wedding rings cost more than 1000, you have to give them up. 500 total for bikes, sewing machine, typewriter, burial plot, firearm and of course, a bible. but if your bible is an old family heirloom over 500,you have to give them up. the list goes on and on with so many ridiculous items. you can keep enough money for food and fuel for 6 months.

this country has started the annihilation of the poor and middle class. wonder what we will be branded with, a yellow star. already feel like jews herded to the chambers, when you have to go through airline security. every time in my life that i have come close to poverty, food stamps, welfare or bankruptcy, it was a repubic in power. my dad said to me in 1952 that if a repubic is in power, you will loose. with a democrat you have a chance. in my life time i have never seen anything to change that opinion.

[dgibby]

131. Write that book! I'd buy it in a skinny minute!

If you're not up to a book, at least write an article and submit it for publication. It will be cathartic AND give you some extra income. Good luck, and thanks for sharing. (Don't know if you're a member of the DU writers group, but they are a generous, talented group, who are more than happy to critique your work in a helpful and constructive way.):hug:

[Raksha]

141. I am not up to the book yet. I may be up to a blog, though.

Or maybe a DU journal, or failing that...an OP at the very least. I'll be thinking about it.

Thanks to everyone for your wonderful, encouraging feedback on my post.

In my post last night, I mentioned that I had a particular image in mind for the cover of the book if it ever gets written. The picture was always going to include the blue Corelle mug I bought at the Wal-Mart near the second place I lived in Fontana. I lived in four different locations in Fontana, California between the fall of 2000 and the summer of 2002. I picked out that blue mug with a great deal of care, knowing it was going to be identified as "mine" so that the other residents (there were usually multiple renters) would know not to use it.

I also knew, even at the time, that when I was finally home--whenever and wherever THAT was!--that it would be time to retire the blue mug. I had not seen it since I moved here and thought it was in my storage locker. But last night right after I posted that note I found it again. It was in a box of miscellaneous bathroom stuff I never unpacked.

I had completely forgotten that at the last place I lived before moving here I semi-retired the blue mug. I still used it, but only in the bathroom when I brushed my teeth. Not for drinking coffee as I had done before.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it after I clean it up, but I consider it kind of a synchronistic omen that I found it again right after I posted that note.

[Raksha]

149. Oh, and one other thing: I wrote the second post on this sub-thread

after a clueless RW asshole on another forum I frequent used the phrase "poverty pimps" in one of his spin pieces, talking about what a disaster the stimulus package is going to be. What a disaster he and the other RW assholes on that forum WANT it to be is more like it. Hardly anyone takes this jerk seriously any more, but he still churns out this crap.

"Poverty pimps" was more than I could stand after reading this thread and contributing to it, so I left that board and came here and posted reply #141. Maybe I'll post a link to this thread on the other board, in the vain hope that the idiot will get a clue.

[Two Americas]

23. it is people, it is not an "it"

We have barely scratched the surface discussing poverty, if we are going to talk about the human biengs trapped in poverty and about the political and social implications. If we are going to discuss it as thiugh it were some inevitable force of nature or feature of the landscape, or some minor irritant such as ingrown toenails, then yes it could get boring pretty quickly

But seeing poverty that way is a major component of the problem - seeing it in an impersonal way, with poor people serving merely as extras in some film in our mind, and seeing it as disconnected from larger social and political issues, and as more or less irrelevant to the lives of most of us.

[JeffR]

34. "poor people serving merely as extras in some film in our mind..."

That's a phrase for the ages. Lakoff himself would applaud that framing of the issue. It's utterly brilliant.

[bobbolink]

49. Only "so much you can say"???? Then why is there so much IGNORANCE?

How many low-income homes are available as opposed to how many are needed?

How many low-income homes are destroyed every year and not replace?

How much money do well-to-do people get in housing subsidies as opposed to low-income people?

You don't know those answers?

Then there's plenty more to say, isn't there?

[JeffR]

60. Well said, Bobbie.

Very well said.

[Tindalos]

70. Bravo!

Well said, bobbolink.

While there are people still living in poverty, then there is still a lot to discuss. It isn't enough to just state that problems exist and then move on to something else. Solutions aren't going to be found and implemented unless we keep talking. There's a lot more to be said.

[HoosierStateDem]

122. Right on!

Well said Bobbo!

[bobbolink]

127. Welcome to DU, HoosierStateDem!

:toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

It's so refreshing to see a newcomer posting in a poverty thread shortly after registering!

Great to "see" you here!

[dgibby]

128. ALL of us, including them, evidently.

We, as a nation, cannot talk about/recognize poverty because to do so, would shatter the myth that we are "the greatest nation on earth", that we have some special blessing from God. To recognize poverty would be to admit that we are no different from other countries that struggle with this issue.

Of course, not to acknowledge poverty in the USA will, I believe, lead to our ultimate economic destruction. No nation can exist with such economic disparity and hope to survive. History has shown this to be true over and over, and yet, the top 1% continue to ignore the obvious.

To them, amassing obscene amounts of wealth is nothing more that a blood sport. They mistake winning the battles for winning the war, a fatal mistake eventually.

I think they would be wise to learn from Enron. Nothing lasts forever, and judging from the palpable anger expressed across the country, it would appear that the lower and middle income classes are growing restless with the so-called "Masters of the Universe".

For those who worship wealth and the power it brings with it, I have only one thing to say: "May you live in interesting times". (Old Chinese curse).

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Thanks for this, Nance...

I knew it was bad, but not this bad...

K&R

:patriot:

[Still Sensible]

5. You're absolutely right as usual Nance

and my e-mails are already on their way. Thanks for the links.

[bobbolink]

50. Thank you so much for sending those emails, on behalf of all of us who are suffering and feeling

so alone and isolated!

If only ALL DUers and "progressives" would take your lead, there wouldn't be such a gap in reporting!

I appreciate your action very much, and hope you will pass this on to others, and convince them to also write and call!

:applause: :pals:

[Fireweed247]

8. Thanks Nance!

I dream of a reality show that features people in need and the altruists that help them, the opposite of "lifestyles of the rich and famous." We need to start a new meme in this country where the rich are looked down upon and everyone else knows that the greatest joy is to give to others and spread the wealth. A happy society is one where everyone's needs are met.

[bobbolink]

51. While that would be a fine start, what is so badly needed is JUSTICE, not more charity!

It's very hard to receive in this country.. .there is so much humiliation involved.

It should be a RIGHT to have the necessary home, nutrition, health care and wellness opportunities!

[Tsiyu]

11. K&R n/t

[Fireweed247]

13. Instead of providing help....

THIS is what is happening right here in America.

Tent City Residents Evicted, Dwellings Bulldozed
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2008/03/215739.php

Las Vegas Makes It Illegal to Feed Homeless in Parks
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/us/28homeless.html

Feed Homeless, Face Arrest: Food Not Bombs Group Face Harassment
http://anti-poverty-activism.suite101.com/article.cfm/feed_homeless_face_arrest

As Michael Moore asks in Sicko...."Who are we?"

[maryf]

15. And even these stories are far and few between...

And rarely offer folks actions to take! We gotta be the media and hunt these stories out...

Here's one I posted a little while ago about a town that is denying a church the right to shelter the homeless...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4695146

[KamaAina]

16. But, but, but, John Edwards had an affair!

So obviously everything he's been saying about poverty and "two Americas" all this time has been a bunch of baloney.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Two Americas]

29. what did he say about me?

I must have missed that.

The attacks on Edwards (and I am about as angry with him as anyone could be) were always really attacks on his supporters and his ideas.

[maryf]

17. Thanks, Nance! great job!!

K& R

[JeffR]

18. Kick!

:kick:

[blueraven95]

19. I'll write letters tomorrow

k&r

[bobbolink]

52. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

You don't know how much it means to those of us who have been suffering to have people in our corner who are willing to take action!

Please report back and let us know who you wrote to, and what you said.

:applause: :pals:

[grantcart]

20. And money spent on poverty has the best stimulation effect with

high multiple effect on cash circulation

[JeffR]

21. Damn good point.

Even liberals have become so conditioned to the right-wing way of framing the economy that they overlook things like this. I'm not thrilled with some of the President's economic team, but I do believe their boss has a grasp of these issues. Color me hopeful.

[Two Americas]

31. exactly

Poor people are not a different species, they are human beings. We are all closer to poverty than we are to the people who are thriving and "winning" in this system, and we are all extremely vulnerable.

Assisting the least fortunate among us strengthens the foundation, and a strong structure always starts with a strong foundation.

I don't know what it will take to get more people to look at "them" and realize "that is me" - to respond based on a recognition of our shared humanity.

[maryf]

43. I am you and you are me and we are all together...

To be human is to share a commonality that too many deny...

[ColbertWatcher]

24. Excellent essay! Thank you for posting.

Poverty awareness will continue beyond January.

Proud to kick and rec.

[bobbolink]

53. "Poverty awareness will continue beyond January."

Please help us make it so!

Thank you! :hi:

[Time for change]

26. Yes, our corporate news media has utterly failed us -- in this and so many other ways

And so much of it is purposeful. So many problems they don't want the American people to know about because if they did, as you say, they would demand action. And that could cut into the profits of the wealthy.

[Number23]

27. My personal thought is that the economic crisis will change just about every way that we see things

in the Western world. I believe that before all of this is over, there will be much more focus on the poor and the downtrodden in our society, and much less coverage of the vapid and frivolous.

There is a monumental shift going on in the world right now, and I wonder if the American media will wise up fast enough to catch up to it.

[bobbolink]

54. "I wonder if the American media will wise up fast enough to catch up to it. " Only if WE make it

happen!

We have to PUSH, and PUSH HARD.

I hope you will help us do that.

Thank you!

[Number23]

96. Love your passion and commitment to such an important issue.

[ConcernedCanuk]

28. USAmerican landlady cut off my heat(electric) Jan 3rd

.
.
.

It's still off

surviving with propane heat and one tiny electric heater which I have to shut off to make coffee, use the microwave . . .

Sleeping with long johns and sox on is something I haven't had to do since the 60's

this lady is NOT a good ambassador for Americans

fortunately

I met a lot of USAmericans before I met her

she's not the norm

thank gawd(ess)

[Tindalos]

41. Check your residential tenancy act

Some acts restrict landlords/ladies from turning off essential services. Especially if it is included in your rent. Don't know if you can fight her on this, but good luck and stay warm.

[ConcernedCanuk]

166. I did - it's definitely a violation of our RTA, but - our tribunal is 50 miles away

.
.
.

And am spending my/her rent money on gas and propane for heat and hydro

Yes, I'm keeping the receipts as welfare will sooner or later ask me for rental receipts, which I'm not getting . .

But, welfare "shelter" payment actually is what they refer to as "occupancy cost" - so will satisfy the welfare people that the money they are giving me is needed for shelter.

The RTA thing? - costs money, so I'm thinking either wait until I get a job and some extra money, or she tries to evict me for non-payment - -

But yeah -

It keeps me awake at night sometimes

Thanks for your concern - and yes

I'm keeping warm

[Tindalos]

168. There's always so much red tape

They get everyone coming and going. It's amazing anything ever gets done in this world. I hope you can get it sorted out or reimbursed or something. Your landlady sounds a right witch.

Try not to get too exhausted. As long as you are well-rested, you'll wake up if you get too cold.

Here's hoping it warms up soon.

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. Wow! I think Obama could do with your kind of widely-informed

input, Nance. I mean on poverty AND on how to galvanise the country, and most immediately, the media, into action.

[bobbolink]

58. We should ALL be "this well informed"!! The information is available...

it just hasn't been seen as important enough to bother with.

:cry:

[Joe Chi Minh]

159. No, bobbolink. We should not ALL be "this well informed"; at least in the way

you imply. Many, many people are all well-informed about this subject and do something about it in different ways. One way is by just giving money to charities who can distribute a little help in some of the many places where it is need. Another way is by lobbying via forums such as this; indeed, I dare say there are various possible permutations.

The point I was making is that NanceGreggs post was extraordinarily insightful, and the links she provided must have been a laborious task to research and draft. Not everyone who feels passionately about this subject could have posted anything approaching it for its outstanding quality.

I'm not going to argue to the toss with you about it. That's the reality. Don't be too quick to be judgemental about posters to these threads. You're not the only one who feels passionately about this subject. I sometimes wonder if you have grasped the fact that this topic can only be significantly addresssed at the political level, and one of the most direct ways of doing that is precisely in the way that Nance lays out for the reader in her post.

[maryf]

173. Hey Joe!! Bobbolink knows more than anyone

That this is a political subject, that it is a question of justice at the systemic level, true politics! I know because of hours, no days, reading much of the info she has imparted. And she has dedicated her life to this issue, and this issue alone; she has archived volumes of contacts, research, and links regarding poverty. This is not to discount Nance's post at all; but I happen to know that Bobbie spends every possible moment devoted to poverty, with little in real life support or means to do so. I greatly appreciate Nance's, yours, many people's efforts here. But Bobbie is the queen of poverty advocates and knows exactly what the source of the problem is, and has posted actions to fight it for a very long time!! I know she appreciates Nance's efforts too. Thanks for the listen!! and for your support for the cause!

[bobbolink]

187. Since you have decided I need to be taken down a peg, I will tell you that *I'm* the one who got all

those links! Ok?

ALL of these essays were a collaborative effort of a small group of us. WE have been researching and compiling the info, and trying to get all of you interested enough in understanding the issues, and the basic facts.

It has been a hard, and often discouraging task. Sapphire Blue, before us, got VERY discouraged because she would find very good information, and get very few people to even be bothered to read it, let alone take a small action.

What I was TRYING so hard to get across is that we ALL need to be very familiar with the basic facts, and willing and able to talk to others about these facts, in any way we can. Person to person, via media, via DU (although it's very limited here in the number of people who are willing to even listen)... and write, call, take that 15 minutes a week that Jeff suggested back in the end of December, and be an ACTIVIST.

DUers participated widely in learning the basic facts about electronic voting, and became quite literate in being able to discuss the need for paper ballots. DUers got very involved in learning about the Libby trial, and were able to spout facts all over the place. I would bet that a LOT, if not MOST, DUers can give the ways that the * administration broke laws.

YEt, learning the basics of poverty is not seen as "cool".

THAT's what I was talking about, and I will stand by my assertion that we can ALL learn to discuss poverty clearly and compellingly. Too bad you think I need to be lectured for stating that, but I will continue to stand by it.

It's the same "progressive" value as any other.

[Joe Chi Minh]

191. What I was criticising you for is jumping down the throats of people

trying to make a positive contribution on here. I've no interest at all in "taking you down a peg", in minimising your enormous contribution concerning this issue, but rather, pointing out that you are doing it yourself with intemperate and frankly baffling attacks on people, posting in good faith in support of this bedrock activism. I would simply suggest to you, Bobbolink, that unless someone actually expresses hostility or even indifference to the theme of this thread, don't respond as if you have a monopoly on the concern here, and the poster is an unthinking, unfeeling reprobate, who needs to start learning a few fundamentals.

There is a place for prophetic fury; and there is a place for listening to friends. This thread, it seems to me, is a place for both. But "friendly fire" is something we should avoid. That's all. If you were a very dear member of my family or a bosom personal friend from my childhood days I would have responded at least as forthrightly. It's what friends do when they argue.

[bobbolink]

194. I simply said we ALL need to know the facts.

Calling that "intemperate" is SILLY. There was NO ATTACK in that, except in your mind.

I'm sorry for including you in the notices.

I've learned.

[smokey nj]

33. K&R!

[Ocracoker16]

35. Media ignore poverty issues

The media contribute to the lack of awareness about poverty. I watch the news at night and I never see any kind of coverage of these issues. After the economic crisis, I thought they might show more stories on poverty. Instead, they show only stories about middle class people. They show some well dressed person sitting in a large kitchen talking about not being able to go on a summer vacation. I just get frustrated, because I know so many individuals in much greater need than that. If this financial crisis is hitting the middle class so hardly, then what do you think is happening with people who are already living in poverty?

The media need to look for ways of educating viewers about poverty that really hit people in the heart. They can't just give statistics and talk about poor people in general. People need to see the face of poverty. They need to hear directly from someone who is struggling. There are far too many people in this country who have been made invisisble. We need the media to put these people on tv to tell their own stories. Viewers might start to realize that they have more in common with poor people than they previously thought. People might start to see that there is injustice in society that pulls some people down and doesn't affect others. They might wonder if they could have been where that poor person is if they lived under different circumstances. People would see that the poor aren't interested in their pity.

Media could also choose various organizations that serve the poor and profile them. What do they do? How many people do they serve? They could have a brief statement from someone who benefits from the program. The media seem to be able to do a story on a soup kitchen every Christmas, so why not something similar on maybe a weekly basis. Volunteers are needed all year and donations are always welcome.

Thanks for the great post. I will try to use your links to push this issue.

[maryf]

69. Great post!! "I will try to use your links to push this issue."

Thank you for your understanding and willingness!!

[varelse]

36. Imagine, indeed

Imagine the call-to-action that would be triggered if the nightly news was as interested in interviewing a homeless vet as they are in talking about a celebrity’s messy divorce.

Imagine the increase in donations to food banks and shelters if news networks focused as much attention on the hungry and the homeless as they do on the utter nonsense they fill the airwaves with each and every day.

Imagine the outrage – and the ensuing demand for increased social safety-nets, low income housing, more tax dollars spent on ensuring that all children were well-fed – if people turned on their TV and heard the staggering statistics – 37 million Americans – as often as they heard the numbers of viewers who tune-in to American Idol each week.

Thank you x 1000

[Why Syzygy]

38. LBN was alerted to be sure

to catch this thread. So, I have a couple of questions.

In a handful of stories—primarily on CBS—poverty issues were discussed solely by experts, with no poor people appearing on-screen at all.

How many people in poverty did you interview for this piece? Was this their input? More TV coverage?
I find the story linked upthread about the city denying a church to offer shelter is more responsible for the "invisibility". It's in the business district. Wouldn't want business types to have to look at a homeless person. If they see them on the street, there's not so much need for video broadcasting. It's right there. That's why they bulldoze tent cities. They are unsightly and might reflect badly on the 'good' citizens. Would these business people react more kindly to a TV piece? Or does that just help keep the distance?

Now we live on the social security checks, but with the price of things being what they are nowadays, they don’t go far. We go to the food bank regular now, because otherwise we wouldn’t eat. I am ashamed to have to take handouts. But we have no choice. And the bills keep piling up, too. We know we ain’t the only folks living this life – being afraid every day, knowing what little we got might be gone someday soon.

Did you mean to give the impression that only illiterate people end up at the food pantry? Is there a message that only if they were better educated, they wouldn't allow that to happen to themselves? Or, was that just accidental? I'll tell you the first time I went to a food pantry (1996 after a mid-life divorce), I wasn't worried about being ashamed. I was so humbled, I wept tears of gratitude. People gave me food. Was I supposed to be ashamed for taking a "handout"?

Since you were singled out as the authority on this topic, I made a point to read your thread.
May I have the courtesy of asking questions?

[NanceGreggs]

55. I don't know who "singled me out" as an authority ...

... on the topic. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

"Did you mean to give the impression that only illiterate people end up at the food pantry?"

No - did you?

It is a fact that people across the country - nay, people around the world - speak in different voices, different accents, different phrases - utilizing varied turns of speech to communicate their ideas as well as their ideals.

Here's a news flash for you: I've been a court reporter for 23 years, and I have heard the most articulate, most inspiring lawyers on the face of the earth use the close-to-the-heart colloquialisms and "down home" phrases they've grown up with to make their case. And it is awe-inspiring, hearing the voices of the many articulated in words that hit home with every subtle nuance, the poetry of the masses that the truly enlightened recognize as just that - poetry; words that carry meaning, not only in what is said, but the way in which the words are spoken.

I had no intention of interrupting this thread to respond to people such as yourself - but, quite frankly, you are on my last fuckin' nerve. And then some.

If you hear words or phrases and interpret them as being reflective of ignorance, illiteracy, stupidity, or a lack of what you consider to be a "suitable" grasp of language, you might want to consider your own lack of understanding - your own snobbery - your own sense of judging people not by what they say, but how they say it.

So FUCK RIGHT OFF.

And if that last sentence gets me fucking tombstoned, it will have been worth it - absolutely, completely, and without a modicum of regret.

[caseycoon]

111. YOU GO GIRL!

YEAH! This post is the first smile I've had in this thread.
:hi:

[maryf]

65. Your concern for the poor is clear, however Nance was very gracious

To accept the invitation of peoplesing.org, a group of people, many indigent, some homeless, some just sick of the inhumanity of the treatment "bestowed" upon the impoverished. Your questions do indicate a strong compassion for the poor yourself, although this comes out, I think, in a misread of what Nance is trying to convey. If we allow ourselves to bicker among ourselves, those of us who do have compassion for the poor, regardless our slant, how are we to come together to fight the ogres that cause it? We cannot succumb to the divide and conquer strategm. Keep up the good fight!

[Why Syzygy]

77. Thank you. That's kind of you to say.

However, if that's the case, if this really is an act of grace, then one might assume an openness to dialog. OTOH, if this is more about making oneself look "good and caring", then of course elemental style is going to be the straw horse.

I do not take any credit whatsoever for any concern I feel for fellow human beings. I happen to be of the belief that we are all part of the One. Whatever I do to you, is done to me. If I offer graciousness, I extend it to myself. If I ask pointed questions, I ask the same of myself. If I go off on a fellow traveler, I diminish myself. I believe this is the root of poverty and most likely all humanity's afflictions. We have been taught that "they" are "other". We have been taught that when I see a problem in *you*, it does not reflect on *me*. That's the link I see missing here.

If empathy were to take place, one might consider the massive stigma attached to poverty. Why is that, and how does that affect the current situation and the solution? Einstein..every problem contains the solution. If the problem is never defined, a solution certainly won't be forthcoming. If a real connection is desired with the poor, one might be curious as to what it is like living day to day, wondering where the next meal will come from. How does the insecurity of not knowing where you will be tomorrow, or sleep tonight feel like? Exactly how humiliating is it to get an illegal camping ticket for wearing a backpack and sitting on a bus bench? How many meals can you miss before the body breaks down beyond repair?

I disagree with the premise of the OP. That's my human right. Since I live below poverty level, I might have an opinion that counts on some level. I might be permitted to question those who claim they are here to "help".

Unless, that is, we are just here to make ourselves appear gracious.

[Two Americas]

82. it is about people being silenced

I think what we want to discuss here is how people's voices are systematically excluded from the national discussion. So that does not mean stories about the poor as much as it does stories from poor people. You may have seen last week's essay - "listening to those closest to the problem" - where we discussed that in depth.

Your points are well taken - we should question those who claim they are here to "help," we have been taught that "they" are "other," and we have been taught that when we see a problem in someone else, that it does not reflect on ourselves. I agree that this link is too often missing.

[Why Syzygy]

86. I didn't get a copy of the agenda.

Obviously out of the loop. I'll just let all you problem fixers get on with your agenda.

[Two Americas]

88. so hostile

You are not being excluded.

[JeffR]

99. There is no agenda beyond citizens trying to help other citizens.

That seems to be your agenda too, and bless you for it. Please take a breath and stop arguing with people who are on your side. It's time to stop all the chatter and put an end to poverty, not only in America but around the world. It's going to take an army of millions. Snipe at your fellow soldiers some other time, if you must. Right now we're fighting a very high-stakes war. You must realize this. You're obviously not stupid.

This essay series has been intended as a call to arms to fight some terrible injustices. The essayists have very generously contributed their time to study research compiled by a team of people, some of whom are in terrible and unconscionable situations, and use the power of their voices to advocate for change. Your mewling behind the lines helps nothing. There are a lot of people who place poverty, homelessness and hunger at the top of their priority list. There's no in-crowd about this, or out-crowd.

Join in on a group effort that might achieve some modest victory, or not. If you choose not, please don't spread your bad vibes around on this. A lot of people, the OP included, have put a lot of work into this project. Stop pissing on it. You make yourself look petty, and it seems to me you're actually a very good person. Stop and think about the responsibility goodness carries with it, please.

[Why Syzygy]

101. okay. nt

[mntleo2]

113. Dear Syzygy:

...I understand deeply your hostility, and I am *not* being coy here, I sincerely feel much the same as you sometimes. We poor have a difficult time figuring out the difference between folks who are "helping" us to make themselves feel good and the ones who are trying to eradicate the issue of poverty out of sincere outrage when they realize the depth of the problem of poverty that it is an institutionalized System. The ones who know that the people they are trying to "help" aren't the problem, the whole societal attitude about poverty in this country is the problem.

From someone who has been low income all my adult life, I have become an expert as to which of these I face every time I have to go, hat in hand, to an agency/person/family member. I have come to the conclusion I could care less what their agenda is, but what my need is and I act accordingly. If it is their ego that needs soothing, so be it, and yes if I am dealing with the outrage of the systematic issues of poverty, I have found a friend most of the time. I have overcome the shame of having the needs I have for my family and for myself, because if the person's agenda is about themselves, they just do not get why I am there, but I still have a need that they might be able to answer. I know I am not the problem, they may not, but now I do not care about that so much as getting the need taken care of. It has given me the peace of mind to realize that I am just glad they are there no matter their true motive.

I also hope that my presence in the life of a "helper" might make a difference as to what their agenda is and that it change. I realize now that I am a teacher and advocate in the deepest sense. I am not saying we all are teachers as the role I have taken on, but I am saying that is what has helped me to find some dignity in having needs I cannot answer on my own. Because now I know they are not my fault even though the people I have to turn to think it is...am I making any sense here?

Hon, I know the nightmare of poverty and I know what it does to your head and your heart and how mad it can make a person, I am often there myself. Hang in there and just keep in mind that Nancy has put herself out there in a caring way and that she is trying to help and to be honest I do not think she is just doing it for herself, she is not one of the "helpers" she is as outraged as we are with seeing the Truth about poverty in America.

PM me if you need a place to vent. I will do my best to understand. I know of what you speak!

Love,

Cat In Seattle

[Why Syzygy]

124. Oh, Cat!

:hug: Thank you so much for sharing that. Seven years ago, I wasn't a hostile person. I still believed that I could make it okay. That I COULD OVERCOME! I had no idea, thankfully, of the trials and breakdowns that were to occur along the way, as I tried to change my direction.

I've cried several times reading this thread. I'm glad for that. I need the tears. I need to allow the heartbreak to release. When we all together DO overcome this issue, there is still much healing to be accomplished.

I always love your posts and know your heart, so this is especially meaningful for me.
:cry:

Syz.

[mntleo2]

136. Wow! I have wept too ...this discussion has hit me deep ...

:cry:
...I thought I was all by myself with that, your tears are healing, Dear! Those tears have been a catharsis and now I am ready to get back up again and begin the fight anew, hopefully stronger. I will write to some of the folks Nancy and others in this thread suggests. I am one of the "invisible" but how can I become visible if I don't speak up loud and clear?

Oh yeah! Thanks Hon!

Love
Cat

[Two Americas]

138. thanks Cat and Syzygy

Again I apologize for reacting so quickly and aggressively.

:hug:

[Number23]

100. What a gracious and constructive response, Mary.

It's apparent that you are genuinely committed to this issue. The poverty awareness group here is lucky to have you.

[maryf]

172. Thanks! #23!!

It is the most important of issues and it brings out sensitivities, but with the discussion that ensued, I think a lot of good discussion came out...

[Two Americas]

79. hey!

Nance volunteered for this project and did a fine job here. Many were asked, but only a few stepped up to the plate.

I am the designated street fighter in the poverty awareness group, by the way, so if you want to fight I am right here.

Your experience with poverty is unique to you, as is the experience of the person who Nance referenced, and no one is going to invalidate your experience. You might want to reciprocate that consideration.

The purpose of this series is for us to be encouraged to tell our stories, to reach people, and to find our common humanity. No one is trying to claim to be an "authority."

"People in poverty" are right here at DU. We are all "interviewing" them every day. But are we listening?

[Why Syzygy]

85. I never disputed that

she has her fans here. That's not my issue.

I already got an ass whooping. Are you offering another?

If I have something to say to you specifically, will do.
Otherwise, I'm not interested in any surrogate, macho madness. Your offer is declined.
Personally, I find it offensive you would even post such a thing.

I'm also not interested in joining in any meaningless self aggrandizements and/or vendettas. I've already lost interest in one special cause at DU due to the abusiveness of the proponents. I'm not giving up on this one just because of punkish behavior from those who claim to be "in the know".

I think it's clear from the tenor of the OP that these are not *real people's* experiences. They are composites. Nance is not the only one currently using this technique at the DU. If I'm wrong, then the conveyance to someone who is not a part of the fan base (me), missed the mark. Communication is a two way. As a member of the group she is attempting to describe, I feel okay about questioning her understanding. My question was answered. It is due to my lack of "enlightenment".

If I had known this was a gang endeavor, perhaps I would have passed.

[Two Americas]

89. never mind Nance

She and I have clashed. Let's leave that behind now.

I am not trying to whup your ass. I am going to defend the people helping with this project, and forgive me if I am too aggressive. I understand the abrasiveness you can encounter here and agree with you in that. Again, I apologize if I was too abrasive.

Everyone contributes what they can, working from where they are, and with what they have.

Your input and ideas are more than welcome - always. You will find that we are not a gang with an evil agenda, and that many of us agree with the things you are saying here and understand why you would be defensive.

I agree that we should not be "joining in any meaningless self aggrandizements and/or vendettas."

[Why Syzygy]

90. Peacemaker.

Felt like I was approached by the Bouncer. Hope that's not the case.
Truce.

It's been a long, tough day, and I don't usually venture into the big forums to stay long, as I did today.

Poverty is a hardship. You must know that. It's exhausting. Also, humiliating, and all the rest.
It's been mentioned in other places, but let's not forget that ours is a society which penalizes failure quite successfully. I don't know the numbers, but would guess that something like 33% of Americans believe the poor deserve it, and that for them to have any assistance amounts to thieving off a welfare state. (HAHA) Those people aren't going to be persuaded easily, if at all. They will be listening to Rush and watching O'Really. The talking heads who take their big fat checks and peddle hate get more *respect*.

I don't know the answers. I'm glad we're dedicated to doing *something*. I believe my original points remain valid, and that trying to coerce big media to lend a hand is not the best use of (at least) my personal resources. Guess I was hoping for something more.

[Two Americas]

95. lol

Not the bouncer. Sorry again for being so aggressive.

Peace.

[bobbolink]

129. "Poverty is a hardship. You must know that. It's exhausting. Also, humiliating, and all the rest. "

Exactly.

Which is PRECISELY why poor folk shouldn't be so critical of other poor folk.

Life is bad enough without THAT.

You are mistaken about the "agenda" being to try to coerce big media. It's about getting through to the "progressives" who are supposedly "on our side"!!

If you choose not to enter into that effort, that's your call. But criticizing others who ARE trying to make that difference, which you also benefit YOU, by the way, is just exhausting and humiliating and creating hardship for those of us who ARE trying to do what we can.

"Guess I was hoping for something more."

Hey, there's room for more than a few ideas. If you have ideas you want to present, have at it.

But just chopping down someone else who is DOING THEIR BEST is exhausting and humiliating.

[JeffR]

103. For God's sake , stop with the hyperbole of "gang endeavor" and so on

Your hostility is seriously unbecoming to you.

This is part of a very difficult effort by a wonderful group of people who actually give a good goddamn. Recognize and embrace your sisters and brothers or perish amid your grudges.

Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream for just a damn moment. Essayists adopting composite characters as a literary device dates back to Swift, Addison, Steele, Boswell and guys even dustier than the aforementioned.

Don't like the writer's style? Send her a PM.

Meanwhile, let the rest of us try to vault poverty into the thinking of everyone who participates here. You sit it out if you want to.

[bobbolink]

130. Thank you, JeffR! This poster came at me with claws out before this thread was even posted.

If there is truly poverty involved, you'd think there would be SOME sensitivity to the amount of effort involved in swimming upstream among "progressives"!!!

Thanks! :hi:

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

155. Please do put me on ignore. I will consider it an honor.

THis is the FIRST thing I've written to on this thread.

For very good reason.

You've done much to stir the ire of many here.

Good going.

NOW.... stop highjacking this thread for your OWN selfish purposes, and put us all on ignore, since you disagree with most everyone here.

Ta-ta

[Why Syzygy]

157. Sorry I'm not

becoming enough for you.

It appears very much to be a bully operation. Pity. We could have done some good.

The truth:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3714976

:hi:

[redqueen]

39. Thank you, Nance.

[Waiting For Everyman]

42. Coincidentally, I was wondering about this last night -

why there's no coverage of wherever it is that all the displaced people are going? Millions foreclosed and evicted, yet we don't see them - at least I don't - neither in real life nor on the news. Some may be lucky enough to have somewhere to go, but there have to be large numbers who don't. So I searched for "tent cities" on youtube. Here's some of what I found...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loH_iBRoOZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OFWYb4GWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f98phG4M1SQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqgePGsDqzs


This should be a BIG story during this economic crisis, a major, ongoing story. Thank you, Nance. And for the links too.

[madamesilverspurs]

44. You know what this means, doncha?

Yup, community organizers! Lots of 'em. You betcha! There are several among my aquaintances who are already working on poverty issues. And those same community organizers have a way of bringing out the best in people, helping us to find the drive and energy we sometimes don't know we have until it's called. At our very best we're a nation that produces top notch workers in our communities. "Yes We Can" written in sweat and fueled by simple human decency. And if it pisses off the Palins of this world and exposes their shallowness, too damn bad. Also, too.

[Hannah Bell]

93. who's paying them, or are they volunteers?

[madamesilverspurs]

110. Mixed bag.

One is a director of a progressive organization, doesn't get paid much. Most are volunteers, mostly retired, some college students.

[maryf]

45. Kick nt

[Tindalos]

46. A lot can be done at the local level

It's much easier to see what needs to be done within one's own community. It's also easier to convince people to act. Some of our local papers do a fairly good job of discussing poverty issues but the larger media outlets ignore them. Getting the government to change policies and provide funding is more difficult, especially at the federal level. There's a lot of pressure locally to provide affordable housing, which is one of the biggest problems in my city. Most politicians here pay lip service, promise to act and then do nothing. They're using real estate as a revenue generator, so I guess they'd prefer to flip million dollar condos than build rental suites.

[Tindalos]

167. kick n/t

[bobbolink]

48. Look at how well our vaunted "progressive" media has done in covering Homelessness:

This is from a study done by Homelessness Marathon.

Read their comments about the results:

"As anyone can see, there isn’t much difference between the left media and the mainstream media in terms of priorities. At The Nation, there were 13.5 hits on “AIDS” for every one on “Homelessness,” at Democracy Now there were 12.3, and at the New York Times, there were 9.4. At Commondreams.org there were 4.1 hits on “Hamas” for every one on “Homelessness,” while at Truthout.org there were 6.7 and at Time there were 5.2 (only Mother Jones had more hits for “Homelessness” than for “Hamas.”).

"On the surface, at least, the millions of Americans who become homeless every year would seem to be just as unimportant to the left as they are to the powerful corporate oligarchs who control most of our nation’s media. But what kind of social justice movement doesn’t care about the poorest of the poor? At the Homelessness Marathon, we think that’s a question worth asking."

http://homelessnessmarathon.org/2008/09/has-american-left-taken-historic-wrong.html

It's time to start looking at OURSELVES, and challenging our OWN compliance with the status quo!

[maryf]

57. Thanks for this Bobbolink!

Such a scathing indictment of all media, liberal included, regarding the beyond marginalization coverage of poverty. Thank you for this critical info...

[JeffR]

61. A hugely important point!

When even the leading lights of the alternative media give no voice to the poor, it's obvious that the problem goes much deeper than simply the corporatocracy. What's especially striking about those numbers is comparing the hits on homelessness to the hits on human rights, immediately above homelessness in the list.

Affordable housing is a basic human right, as basic and self-evident as any human right. So where are the stories? Where is the crusading leftist media? On so many issues, the alternative media has been a lifeline for progressives and a voice for truth in an era of lies, cant and illusions. Why, then, their failure on this?

[Tindalos]

62. Thanks for the link to Homelessness Marathon

I'll be sure to tune in on Feb 23. Also, I'm going to put up some of their posters so more people here hear about it.

[maryf]

63. I'll be emailing them

this thread, they've been quite kind allowing use of their information in this series of essays...

[Tindalos]

64. Thanks

That's good to know. This has been a very informative and helpful series.

[maryf]

67. links to the other articles for those who may have missed them!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4855586

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4898212

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4844491

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4800489

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4754889

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4697093

[bobbolink]

137. WE have them to thank for STUDYING this! It was BRILLIANT!

Why has nobody else, including me, ever thought to COMPARE this so strikingly??

It is very telling.

And SHAMEFUL!

[Tindalos]

161. It is a brilliant study

It highlights that the issues of poverty have been almost completely ignored. Sadly, these issues have dropped out of most people's awareness. Except for those who struggle with poverty themselves. It's very disheartening.

The free local newspapers are the only ones discussing these issues around here. The national and big corporate media are silent. I think the local coverage reflects an increasing community-wide recognition that something needs to be done. It's obvious that the federal/provincial governments could care less. I'm not even convinced the city government is helping.

I really think the local/community level is the best place to start tackling this and then using the internet to unite individuals and groups into a larger, more cohesive unit. As more people are affected, it is becoming even more important to get the message out. If enough people get involved and speak out, then the government and corporations will be forced to listen.

[maryf]

174. A grassroots effort

Does start locally, this movement needs to grow to a much more significant level, and we all do need to speak out daily!! to everyone...bring the issue back into other's consciousness...

[bobbolink]

184. "I really think the local/community level is the best place to start tackling this "

You may be right.

The problem is, there is NO support at the local level. Maybe you are stronger and more efficient than I am, but I know that I can't change this by myself. Even right here in one town. I'm simply not enough of a powerhouse to do that.

Without a community of people, it won't happen. Not unless every locality has a single person who can move mountains. And I sincerely doubt that.

Also, local towns can't do much anymore without federal money. Most areas just don't have anywhere to come up with the necessary money to build/buy apartments for all who need them. Without federal money, it ain't gonna happen.

What happens locally is CHARITY. And that may get people from one day to the next, but it doesn't change anything on a structural level.

I'm very open to other ideas, and if you can think of ways we can all work to change this on a local level, I would like to hear them. From what I see, I don't see much chance of that happening in most places.

[wellstone dem]

66. thank you thank you

for using your amazing writing skills on this important topic.

[sad sally]

68. President Obama remembered the poor today

Said while the middle class must be helped, we can't forget the poor and their desire to become (or return to in the case of so many Americans who find their worlds jerked out from under them) middle class.

It's staggering and depressing to know that just a tiny fraction of the billions and billions that have been wasted on wars and welfare checks to wall street banks could have changed the lives of so many people.

While it's undoubtedly naive on my part, I hope this President won't forget the suffering poor people go through each day just to survive, and that he truly will inspire this Nation to make life better for everyone.

[Baby Snooks]

84. "Where's the beef?"

Talk is meaningless unless you walk the talk. Instead of talking about it he should have done something about it. I see NOTHING in the "stimulus package" to help the poor. Certainly nothing to help the homeless. So what he said is meaningless. The poor don't need to be inspired by the way. They need help. And the people you believe will be inspired to help them won't. Or they would have already.

[bobbolink]

132. "I hope this President won't forget the suffering poor people go through each day "

YOU can do your part to make sure that doesn't happen.

You can write to him, and express your wish.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

You can speak to everyone you come in contact with, and urge them to speak out.

You can pressure your congresscritters about low-income housing, adequate food stamps, etc.

You can write LTTEs.

You can call in to Air America programs.

You can write to the media contacts listed.

YOU can do more than "hope".

We will be very grateful if you would.

[sad sally]

196. Thanks for reminding me...

while giving time and money - as much as I'm able to - to make a dimple in the suffering poverty has dealt so many people, reminding politicians and the media not to forget the homeless and poor is something I'll do more of. Just seems like having a President that at least acknowledges homelessness and poverty exist is not a bad thing since they're in charge of the big purses...call me a pollyanna...

[asdjrocky]

71. Thanks for bringing this Nance.

We are all to blame. All of us. If we fail to do what we can to lift up our fellow human beings, then we carry the blame, but not the burden.

We can blame the media, there is plenty of blame for them. All of them, as bobbo so well pointed out upthread. We can blame the repuglikins which is easy to do when you consider that under Bush the richest 400 Americans incomes doubled.

Yes, doubled.

Hell, we can toss some blame at the church, the cops and the whole sloppy and stupidly overworked social system, but in the end we have to look at ourselves. Everyone that reads this needs to do something, and they need to get two more people to do something.

Will it happen? I don't know. Being poor is not cool, trust me I know because I was a lot cooler when I had money. It is not sexy. And it's not a shiny new candidate or a war or a scandal. The first person to make helping the poor and the homeless cool will win the race. Who will step up and do that? We have a very cool President and I hope his friendliness to labor will help and I'm still hoping we'll see him cast some of his coolness on the poor.

We've been denied for too long. Some will suffer quietly, but others might make some noise.

[defendandprotect]

72. WE have to keep hammering on poverty and homelessness --- MSM isn't going to do it--!!!

We have to have a list of OUR questions that need answers ---

not media nonsense questions.

Remember they attack the weakest and most vulnerable among us ---

then the Middle Class --- but finally the wealthy.

[Tindalos]

73. Did you see this thread?

This post (not mine btw) links to The Nation's article in which unemployed Americans tell their stories.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4948452

[Greyhound]

74. K&R for future viewing when I'm not so pissed. n/t

[Raksha]

76. K & R

[mentalslavery]

81. great post nancy, but Im biased, this is my pet topic

check out a couple alternative measures for poverty, numbers you have here are official. According to some social justice organizations who specialize refining conceptualization and data cleaning regarding poverty in america the numbers are as high as 80 million.

The Institute for Research on Poverty concludes that calculations which account for these things result in almost a 50 percent increase in the numbers of people in poverty such that 52 million people are in poverty at about 17 percent of the population.
The Economic Policy Institute provides another measure resulting in incomes of 28,000 for a family of 3 and 36,000 for a family of 4 as realistic poverty lines. Based upon these calculations about 80 million or 30 percent of Americans are in poverty.

[Hannah Bell]

94. which pretty much jives with 1/3 of retired workers dependent on social security for all income,

& 2/3 relying on it for 1/2 or more of their income.

[mentalslavery]

139. totally jives, but adults are not the issue. The 37 million figure violates our cultural

sensibilities regarding how we conceptualize poverty in America and subequently what the most pragmatic solutions are. Additionally, children are the issue here, and focusing on children is a winning political tactic which will likely get some help their way. A vast majority of the poor are kids. What the hell are they supposed to do when they are born into ghettos, slums, and trailer parks, get a job? Hows that for family values? Every time those assholes on the right talk about welfare and handouts they are talking about children. Therefore, their worn out mantra of personal responsibility and lazy poor gets exposed as bankrupt when we focus on the children as the "face of poverty". God, I wish the demo's would have jumped on the family values bandwagon a long time ago. Its a good frame, citizens identify with it, STEAL IT! Expecially since we are the party of family values. Decriminalization of drugs and rehab programs make stronger families, protect children, and help marriage succeed. Healthcare is a family values policy. Welfare is a family values policy. Equality is a family values policy-be it economic or social (or otherwise). Education is a family values policy. I could go on forever.

side note rant-God I hate these fucking assholes. A hate that has been brewing since about 10 years old. A hate so deep that it takes all of my strength to try to wipe it out of my heart because I know (intellectually) that it is not constant with liberal values and is personally destructive. But, I really hate these fucking assholes. My head says king, my heart says X.

The central problem is that the measure was designed in the 50's and is average cost of food X 3. This is how the official poverty line is calculated. An additional problem includes the federal manipulation with the food pyramid of health. Under the bush admin it was almost as if the $1 menu at Mcd's was morphing into the official version of a "healthy" diet. When this happens, the decreased cost associated with the changes in the official version of is considered adequate and healthy-decreases the line-decreasing the amount of people in "poverty"

Of course, the changes under bushco always tended to decrease the line. So, if you can reduce the line, you can reduce official poverty.

Another big problem is that health and housing have increased dramatically since the 50's whereas food has increased at a comparably moderate rate. Thus, in the 50's it was fairly accurate that people spent about 1/3 of their budget on food and 1/3 on housing and 1/3 on otherwise defined as miscellaneous (largely clothing, transporation, and health). This is not true today.

KIDS KIDS KIDS-Society is not just judged by how we treat our elderly, but also how we treat our young, and ultimately how we treat the weak.

[Hannah Bell]

156. agree, definitely, but i also believe the good society is measured by how everyone

fares. no need to hurt kids to help elders, or vice-versa.

point was, most people work their whole lives & when they stop working, at *best* they have a paid-off house & a pension or capital that covers half their expenses. (in)secure homes, neighborhoods & income are the "capital" - or lack of capital - that (in)forms the next generation.

[mentalslavery]

188. this is not an either or argument. Children are a good frame

to present a political argument for social welfare policies in general

[bobbolink]

162. And those of us who aren't kids and don't HAVE kids????

Just hurl ourselves off a cliff?

We MUST stop dividing poverty like this!

We are setting ourselves up for being conquered this way!

(And, yes, I'm without kids and useless and wouldn't mind being hurled off a cliff. Have at it.)

[mentalslavery]

189. Dont jump yet bobo-this is not an either or argument

but a discussion of the effects on kids is a good political frame to justify increased funding for general welfare programs

[bobbolink]

192. No, it is NOT a good "frame". It just continues and increases the divisions that

promote the whole business.

Making one group "MOre Worthy" than another group does NOTHING to change the basic underpinning of poverty.

All it does it get us different groups fighting one another for recognition, and the ones who DON"T make it to the spotlight (DISABLED PEOPLE!) hear the message loud and clear that we/they aren't worth shit, and give up fighting at all.

Then, of course, they are called "mentally ill" for hearing the obvious message and just finally getting overwhelmed by it and internalize it and want to die.

It's all so predictable, and it stems from these divisions.

[mentalslavery]

199. This is a winning frame against repuks. As far as you other

assertions I think you read to much into my advocacy of frame selection. It not about more worthy. I did not present it that way. Its a legalistic argument that clearly identifies the economic barriers for children as based in child labor law.

[bobbolink]

201. Of COURSE it's about being more worthy. It doesn't matter HOW it's "presented", that's what

it's about.

[mentalslavery]

202. The presentation matters, legislation is sold via narratives.

Additionally, your arguments about worthiness are not generalizable. I understand that you see the frame as one the automatically implies worthiness as the central component, but, that perception is not one that is necessarily uniform, or objectively present.

Poor children are not more worthy than any other population, they are blocked by law from providing for themselves. Their age does not make them more or less worthy for anything, but comes with legal ramifications. A person of legal working age is not less worthy of food, water, health because they are able to work. Working and non-working status does not determine worth. For me, what is implied in this frame is that we are treating our children as if they are worthless and that they deserve the same treatment, because they have the same worth, as others. No one is arguing that they are more worthy, but as worthy. What I have stated, quite clearly, is that focusing on the large populations of poor, who are overwhelmingly children, is an effective frame that counters the typical horse-shit we get from repuks. Their horse-shit does matter because it is repeated in the echo chamber and forms public opinion for or against legislation. Children as the "new face" of poverty, as the elderly were the "face of poverty" before SS, is an effect narrative that runs counter to their typical BS. The goal is to remind people that welfare programs protect children and families, that these programs are family values programs, and that funding and services should be increased. Of course, those programs benefit every poor person. Welfare does not have an age limit. But, to pass legislation that will guide resources to the appropriate populations, we need an effective frame.

In terms or your arguments regarding group conflict as a subsequent side-effect, that is not bore out in history. You had mentioned disabled people in an earlier post but failed to mention that benefits under SS cover the disabled. Therefore, a program that was enacted to address the poverty among elderly populations is a vital program for people with disabilities of all ages. Additionally, elderly populations strongly support programs for poor children. Thus, SS legislation, medicare, all based upon similar frames, did not "create the worthy distinction" that you are arguing.

Ultimately, you are hyper-focused on ideological purity over practical tactics and conditions. We are not passing legislation in a DU poverty forum, we are doing it in our society, which includes, other people. They don't believe the same things as us. We have to convince them also. Therefore, because people are suffering as we debate these issues, our methods are important. I would like to do it sooner, rather than later, because my people are suffering.

Remember, King was told by many an advisers that allowing whites to strike and abuse blacks without violent resistance made blacks look either scared to fight back or intellectually inferior. Some thought that the peaceful movement made blacks complicit in their "tortured slave" past. Some thought that they were so used to be abused, that they were allowing the abuses to occur they had become "desensitized" to it. Some thought whites could not change, were a waste to deal with, and that violent resistance was the only way to fight back. But King wanted to destroy more than the body, he wanted to destroy the spirit of hate within the white community. Every night he forced whites to face themselves. Marching in the south was a tactic designed to insight violence, designed to create conflict. You could easily make the argument that allow oneself hit and kick and not fighting back implies that another is more worthy, that another can abuse because they are more worthy. You could easily make the argument that these tactics are not effective because they imply the same divisions which are the fundamental components of the problem. You could, but would you?

[bobbolink]

203. :You can highly intellectualize all you want... that DOESN'T change the fact that

it's all about marginalizing some people, and leaving out others altogether.

YOU try being one of the left out!

YOU see what it does to you!

We know that gay kids kill themselves more often than straight kids, because of the prejudice, etc.

The same is true of homeless people who aren't in the "preferred" groups.

It's time to get out of your head and have some heart.

[mentalslavery]

204. What makes you assume you know me?

Don't talk to me about heart or homelessness. Don't lecture me on heart until you can tell me you are 100% committed to a cause. Don't lecture me on heart until you can identify what 100% commitment is. I'd like to hear from you what you think 100% commitment involves. Im not an armchair sociologist, blogger, or activist. Yes, I understand the intellectual foundations of these issues, that is merely the beginning of understanding. I write here to avoid some of the academics restrictions on ideas. I pub, I institution too, but those are merely methods for achieving goals that involve both the external and internal changes for reformation. Since you know me so well, Who am I? I'd like to hear this!


by the way. the findings of my studies on the effects of poverty on personality are up.

[bobbolink]

206. Actually, it was you doing the lecturing.

And if you are demanding to know that I'm a purist, I suggest you read the latest Poverty In America post, with it's dedication.

Turn your anger elsewhere, and not at poor people.

[mentalslavery]

207. I assert that you are hyper focused on ideological purity

I am not labeling you a purist. I don't know you and am not angry, beyond hating repuks. So, what are we going to do? What are our tactics? Your poor, I get that, but your personal condition does not uniquely qualify or disqualify you on this topic. You are qualified or disqualified based upon your ideas. So, what should our tactics be? What can you do for the movement?

Strangely, you sure have some access to the internet for a person dealing with poverty, how does that work, non-profit digital divide program?

[mentalslavery]

205. What makes you assume you know me?

Don't talk to me about heart or homelessness. Don't lecture me on heart until you can tell me you are 100% committed to a cause. Don't lecture me on heart until you can identify what 100% commitment is. I'd like to hear from you what you think 100% commitment involves. Im not an armchair sociologist, blogger, or activist. Yes, I understand the intellectual foundations of these issues, that is merely the beginning of understanding. I write here to avoid some of the academics restrictions on ideas. I pub, I institution too, but those are merely methods for achieving goals that involve both the external and internal changes for reformation. Since you know me so well, Who am I? I'd like to hear this!


by the way. the findings of my studies on the effects of poverty on personality are up.

[JCMach1]

83. two words: gated community

that's the symbol you need...

[carnie_sf]

87. Nance, thank you

you have long been my favorite blogger on DU and once again you've hit the nail on the head. Thank you for your honesty and courage.b You rock ma'am. :applause:

[Two Americas]

97. thank you

Great work, Nance. Thanks.

The more we talk about this growing humanitarian crisis, the better.

Recommended.

[AdHocSolver]

102. I disagree. Americans are not the most generous people in the world.

If Americans were as generous as you claim, we would have had universal health care years ago.

I have seen studies over the years (I do not remember sources) that refute the supposed generosity of Americans. Sure, some disaster gets written up in the media and a lot of people donate. However, when it comes to chronic poverty, our governments do not provide collective resources, such as access to health care, that other countries provide.

The reason that right wing media does not cover stories about poverty in America, is because their target audience, the audience their advertisers want to reach, do not want to hear about widespread poverty in America.

The American concepts about poverty are that poor people are stupid, uneducated, lazy, or all of the above, or they have no ambition and want to be poor. The richer they are, the more tightly they cling to that image as proof of their superiority. The rich people "deserve" their money because they are smarter and harder working.

[maryf]

108. Sadly its not just the right wing media...

If you look at post #48 in this thread you'll see a chart with the amount of media coverage on homelessness. The "progressive" rags are just as complicit in the marginalization of poverty. Many American people do choose to keep their head in the sand, wish to stay complacent; unfortunately, or maybe fortunately?, this is becoming more and more difficult. If all the media were more responsible and told the truth about what's goin' on it'd be nearly impossible for complacency to live. Its not just the wealthy either, many of the so called "middle class" avoid the truth more stridently than do the rich.

[Baby Snooks]

121. Objectivism...

Much of our society is a reflection of Ayn Rand and her "objectivism" which in many ways is reflected in the "trickle down economic theory"
that held that wealth is somehow naturally redistributed to benefit everyone when in fact it only benefits those who are wealthy.

It is an amoral philosophy in which there really is no right or wrong. Just selfish greed. It has permeated our society from the beginning. Ayn Rand merely gave expression to it and named it. The only responsibility the individual has within society is merely to do well. In the belief that society as a whole somehow does well in the process. The disparity in our society which has increased significantly in the past eight years is proof that in fact society as a whole does not benefit at all.

The wealthiest Americans saw their income increase and their tax rates decrease. And one reason why is the Republican Party having embraced the objectivism of what I call the Republicrat Party which the Democratic Party has begun to embrace. Among other things it has created the curiosity of corporate welfare. The people do not matter. Only the corporation. We are of the corporation, by the corporation, for the corporation. We are an oligarchy. The poor simply do not exist in an oligarchy. Most Third World countries are oligarchies regardless of whatever form of government they have. There are always two classes. The ruling class and those who serve them by working for them and supporting them through their productivity and the taxes they pay. The poor offer little in the way of productivity so they are not part of the society. And that is what is happening. The middle class in this country has become the worker class. It has been expected to support the rich and the poor. It can no longer afford to support both. So it will only support the rich. As for the poor in an oligarchy, they are shunned and in the case of Mexico, "exported" to another country in need of slave labor. And that really is what the "guest workers" are. Slave labor. Meant to keep the middle-class in its place and create an actual worker class. With low wages, few benefits, and lack of enforceable labor law. Labor law means nothing if it is not enforced.

The unions are the last to go. And they will go if we are not careful. They represent the biggest threat to oligarchy since they represent the people who are not supposed to have representation.

What worries me most is the funding for assistance. It isn't addressed in the "stimulus package" and I wonder why. The funding needs to be increased at this point. Instead there is no funding at all. The poor simply do not exist. There is no "stimulus" for them.

When I've had money, no one I knew ever had their lights turned off or went hungry or was evicted. I find it disturbing that twice now I have not been the recipient of my own generosity. The people I helped not only refused to help me when I finally asked which I shouldn't have had to but took an attitude about it. I brought it on myself. Had I taken that attitude towards them, I could have set aside a nice little nest egg for myself instead of helping them.

I let it go the first time. But not the second time.

When I've had no money, I still have found myself willing to give half of my last dollar to someone who needs it more than I do. That is what we are supposed to be about in this country.

Sadly we are not and sadly we have a president who seems only to want to offer words of comfort to the poor while helping the rich.

Words do not keep the lights on or keep food on the table or pay the rent. Words do not keep someone from becoming homeless.

And that is all the poor have to look forward to in the "stimulus package" of this president. Just words.

We are a shameful nation. We truly are.

[bobbolink]

133. Actually, if you look at post # 48, you will see that some of the RW media does BETTER than

the "progressive" media.

WHY??

Well, because poverty isn't "sexy" as you can see right here at DU.

We have met the enemy, and it is US.

[DCKit]

104. F&*(#^@#g Socialist. How dare you? K&R

Thanks for the wake-up.

[Divine Discontent]

105. Hi Nance, as I was saying elsewhere, poverty is rarely mentioned. This nation teeters on the edges

of ruin.

We gotta keep on the leaders to ignore the GOP pressing for "fairness" for big business, and the war profiteers, and tell 'em Americans are dying on our streets - starving to death - dying of illness - enough has been done for the well-being of the rich thanks to the war criminal W, now take it all back!
:kick:

[caseycoon]

107. K&R Thank you, Nance.

I hope this will spur folks to actually DO something about poverty. There is so very much to be done & so many more of our citizens sliding into poverty every day. In THIS country. Over the years rather than helping poor people our politicians have taken more & more away. Poor people are all but invisible, and I wonder who cares? Most folks don't seem to want to hear it.
I have to ask... How 'Progressive' is it to have our men, women & children starving, freezing, homeless, without needed meds, living on the streets, sleeping in cars & treated like criminals?

My sig line is against Republicans, but they are not the only ones to blame. I have read the line "Shameful Poverty" but it is NOT those who live in poverty that are shameful. It's those who do nothing & care not who are the shameful ones.

[maryf]

109. Hear, hear, Casey!!

Even those who care and do nothing need to be looked askance...:hi:

[caseycoon]

112. DARN RIGHT MARY!

Them too!
Your posts in this thread are wonderful!
:hi:

[Coexist]

115. knr

[OneGrassRoot]

116. huge K&R , and a thank you. n/t

[JNelson6563]

117. Kickin' this

:kick:

[mntleo2]

118. Thank-you Nancy!

I am impressed with the take you have on the media.

A few years ago, before anyone was aware of the issues of poverty and its institutionalization, I wrote a letter to a local newspaper columnist about the myth of, "If you just work hard enough, you will succeed" nonsense. As someone who did "all the right things," worked my butt off, went to church, got a degree, and tried to raise my kids in a way that was "right," I came to the conclusion "working hard enough" was a myth. A week or so later, she gave me a call and we met and I told her my story. I could tell that she cared and all, but my story was just not "sexy" enough to merit anything in her column.

I do not blame her, she was just doing her job. But I DO deplore the attitudes out there that blame poverty on the individual. It is not as if the individual does not take responsibility for their choices, but if they made the SAME choices with a lot of money in hand (or family who can support them), then suddenly, they are not at fault. I call it the "Paris Hilton Scenario."

Take this one where 70% of women on welfare have experienced domestic violence:

If you were Paris Hilton and you fell in love and married a person who began to beat you and tell you how worthless you are until you have little self worth left, and after you had given birth to children by him and he almost killed you (or one of the kids), you realized you have to flee, how could you do it?

*If you are Paris Hilton, the man is a cad and deserves to go to jail. If you are *not* Paris Hilton, how stupid of you to fall for a man who seemed so charming and nice when you first got involved and how did you suddenly not become a psychiatrist and see who he really was? You DESERVE whatever he gave to you!

*If you are Paris Hilton, you simply go to one of your many homes ~ and pay someone to guard the door in case he comes for you with a gun or knife. The police are right there should he so much as drive past your mansion! If you are *not* Paris Hilton, when you flee, you have no home, so you will have to seek sanctuary in a shelter IF there is room for you, otherwise you and your children are on the street. If you file for a restraining order, well don't worry! You don't merit police protection, this is a "domestic matter." If he comes after you with a gun or a knife, why you have that Important Piece of Paper to protect you, all you need to do is hold it in front of you and your children and it will stop the bullets or the stabbing.

*If you need to divorce this person and he pretends YOU are the one at fault, if you are Paris Hilton you get the best lawyer in town who will fight for your right to custody of your children and put this man in his place. If you are *not* Paris Hilton he could win and you live the nightmare of knowing he is beating/raping/hurting your children and now he has the law on his side.

*If you are Paris Hilton you had your own income resources to control. If you are *not* Paris Hilton, HE controlled the money, He would not let you have anything as he controlled everything about your life, especially money that you might use to leave him ~ but he also had to control every little thing about you, even when and where you could go to the bathroom. You tried to hide money once and he found it and confronted you with the "evidence." When you told him it was for something you needed, he screamed at you that you lied and beat you senseless (being careful not to break any bones, to hit you in your stomach where it doesn't show).

Therefore if you are *not* Paris Hilton, then after he had spent years isolating you from all your family, friends, and anyone who could help (like say a suspicious doctor), when you fled with your children, you had to give up your home, your children's home, and everything in it ~ including any access to funds you might be able to use to finance you and your children's flight.

When you walk (or crawl as some women I know have after leaving the hospital from almost being killed) into a DSHS office looking for help, they look at you and you know their polices take the position that: It must be your silliness to leave such a lovely home, you had a "choice" to leave and therefore it MUST be all YOUR fault since HE "gave" you such a lovely life. Who cares that you have no self-image left, you should just buck up and find some NOW! What a stupid woman to have stayed all that time with someone like that ~ maybe he is not that bad or you would have been gone much sooner than this ~ like after the first time he hit you! who cares that you had no place to go, anyone to turn to and you had kids to consider too ...

The point I am making here is this woman would get better help without the attitudes that somehow her "choices" were "all her fault." That the System in place that she has to turn to cannot possibly be "wrong," it has got to be her doncha know.

This next scenario is from the fact that more and more middle aged women wind up on the streets with little or no support anywhere after working and raising a family. Many of them would surprise you as they often have college educations, long work experience, and no history of drug or alcohol abuse. Why are they on the street? Nobody will hire them, that is why, but nobody will EVER admit to age AND sex discrimination either ~ why that is against the law! You can also use the "Paris Hilton Scenario" other ways as well:

You are 45 years old, and your husband of 25 years takes up with his secretary and tells you he wants a divorce. You have worked yourself as a "supplement" to his income after the kids got into school, but it is no income to support the three kids you and he also have to finish raising and putting through college. Due to community property laws, he has a right to half of everything the two of you has accumulated, even though you are the one left to raise the kids. That inheritance your grandmother left you? Well, after working that waitress job to get him through school, you put your inheritance into the business he was beginning and now his business is half his as well as everything else. He hires a good lawyer who hides most of his income and so his child support payments are not enough to help (if he pays it at all). He moves in with the secretary and leaves you and the kids with the house out of his "generosity" ~ and the huge mortgage that you cannot possibly pay even with the combination of support and your meager wages.

Obviously, because you had the nerve to grow older and not as attractive, it is all your fault that he turned to his secretary and "had" to leave ~ and why aren't you working a better job? Why don't you just quit and find something that pays better (even though nobody will hire you or admit to age discrimination) for all the skills you have??? Surely you could find something better (even though nothing is out there who would hire younger people, much less you)! Now you are sick and older and not able to find decent employment? You are not doing enough! Obviously this is ALL YOUR FAULT for choosing to have those kids that took all your earnings! They just take up space and will do nothing for our future so why did you "choose" to have them, why didn't you abort them? If you would have just known by osmosis that your husband would leave you, why you would be sitting pretty!

* If you are Paris Hilton, even if this man took half of your billions, you still have billions to support you and your kids, support them in style and even put them through college while you sit by the pool collecting those dividends not doing a thing for yourself, for society or even for your kids who were raised by nannies.

If you are not Paris Hilton all you have left are the bills with little support...

These are just a few examples as to the "institutionalization" of poverty and what it does especially to women. The "solution" to women's poverty to conservatives and yes, libruls too, was that these women just find another man who will support them, a "wallet with legs" so to speak. Congress with a great deal of applause, put 1 BILLION DOLLARS into the "faith based welfare plan" to support marrying off welfare moms ~ thus keeping women in their place with "counseling" to keep them with abusive spouses or forcing them into marriage with some "sugar daddy" who will supposedly gladly support a woman and her 1.5 kids that are not his (the average family size of women on welfare) Oh yeah, THIS will solve everything!

Would Paris Hilton be expected to re-marry in order to "solve" her problems? What does solve the problems of women in poverty? Financial support helps her get an education (tho if she is over 40, this might not help). And God forbid if that 1 BILLION DOLLARS could be used to help any woman to become self sufficient and go to school to get a skill or anything silly like that! She needs a MAN to lean on doncha know!

I do not mean to just mention women in poverty, I think for men it can be just as hard. But the truth is that still women make $.70 on each dollar a man makes. ON the average, due to the extra burden of family care (for children and elders, such as parents who need care) she loses on the average of 1/2 MILLION DOLLARS of income than a man over her lifetime. This is because she is considered "not working" when she cares for family, therefore not worthy of any support of any kind. There are far more women than men in poverty, especially women of color who are paid even less and have less support than white women and take on all the burden of family care. There are more white women on welfare than women of color ~ and when women of color are on welfare, they are denied services more than white women.

Oh. And in case you don't know ...I am one of MILLIONS of women in my situation; a white woman raising my 3 year old grand-niece on TANF after laboring as a married woman for over 35 years in paid work and raising 4 kids on those wages, with nothing to show for it because it took every penny I earned. I have *never* had any history of drug use, addictions, alcoholism, or criminal activities. I became an activist who believes parenting IS work, not a recreation as our country likes to consider it. I ask this of anyone who says raising kids should not be something they should support: "Soooo with your thinking, WHY should my kids support you when you are too old to do it? Who is going to pay YOUR Social Security since they "shouldn't" have to support you? Who is going to fight in your wars, run your country, or even physically take care of YOU when you are too old to do it???? Huh???

The sound of crickets follows ...

After all, WHY would any media want to tackle THOSE sticky social issues when it is about our own attitudes that, women's work that women have done the world over since time immemorial is "doing nothing" and therefore not worth any community support, and that not having any money to show all you've done means you are worthless and just "taking up space" and "not doing anything" for your community unless you work for little or nothing wages in a corporation???

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Political_Junkie]

126. Thank you

:cry:

[Tsiyu]

134. Here's a cricket

You spelled it out. Your words tell the stories of so many.

That day you realize the 'Hard-Work-Do-The-Right-Thing' path leads to poverty is a doozy.

And the mixed messages women get:

"Stay, for the kids."

"Why did you stay?"

"We can't protect you, Ma'am."

"Why didn't you call the cops? They might have protected you. Case dismissed."

Society is crazy. But the woman gets the label projected back on her.

And I know men who are victimized into poverty as well, left with children to raise as single fathers. For some it's not an issue of achieving personal safety while poor - a job in itself - just survival with few decent job prospects and no support.

It is my hope that single parents with kids will begin to reach out to each other and form communities, but people in our culture seem conditioned to compete rather than cooperate. There are some good programs in place, especially for women recovering from addiction, but too few to make a dent in the numbers.

I like the idea of matriarchal societies, such as the Iroquois or early Cherokee cultures. I tried to explain the concept to women - that pooling their resources and sharing childcare/household/financial burdens could increase everyone's standard of living and security. None of them seemed to get it, so maybe I'm behind the times.


But then those people survived here a lot longer than we have.

[bobbolink]

135. One reason... too many poor folk, as we have seen here, are conditioned

to criticize and blame EACH OTHER.

It's better for mental health to live alone than to live with that kind of petty criticism!

[Tsiyu]

164. True..humans can be toxic to each other

Over time I have been fortunate to meet a good group of people who look out for each other. I think it's possible to share; we do it. Tools, time, meals, work, money. I don't feel criticized but loved.

I'm not fatalistic on humans. I have hope for us.

[bobbolink]

186. When you experience an accepting community, you have hope.

When you don't have that support, you don't have hope.

And no amount of preaching on hope will create that.

[Tsiyu]

198. I looked for it

and helped make it happen.

That's not a sermon, just what is.

And I suppose we all can be accused of preaching from time to time.

[Two Americas]

147. Good God

This is the truth Cat is speaking here. She isn't talking about an isolated example, but rather about a pervasive pattern.

To the men reading this - are we willing to hear this? Can we handle the truth?

[mntleo2]

169. There are many good men out there!

...I know what you mean and that perhaps men should hear this, but I also want any readers to know, I did not mean to "guilt trip" men. Having raised three boys myself, I know they are caught up in a society that is deeply ingrained with a paternal bent. I know good men and I do not want them to take on the burden of feeling like somehow, even though THEY are good to their sisters, wives, coworkers, and friends, they are responsible for stuff they did not do.

I also wish there were some ways to change things so we became a little gentler with the expectations we have of women, who are doing a lot.

One thing that would not cost a thing, is to help create a shift in what is "doing something" for the world, and what is not. Start by giving respect to the work that women do and do not take it for granted. When they are tired, help them! When someone who is raising a family and not the person working a paid wage tells you, "I don't work ..." You make sure to tell her (or 'him' if it is the dad ~ and hopefully in front of their husband/wife, children, and friends), "You most certainly DO work ~ harder than most 40 hour work week people! You have no vacations, you work 24/7 with few breaks and you do not get sick leave. Did you know that in Seattle's wages, if a woman was paid for what you do, you would be paid $137.000 per year??? You are a nurse, childcare worker, chauffeur, cook, house cleaner, maid, laundress/launderer, grounds keeper, elder care resource person, seamstress/sewer, community organizer, neighborhood resource worker, and teacher, just to name a few things. Do *not* ever tell me again you don't work!" Then sit back and watch the smile light up their face. And hopefully you will help the spouse and children appreciate what that person is doing because even though they depend on her/him and would be dead in the water without her/him, because of our societal attitudes, THEY also think, "S/He doesn't work ..."

This change in attitudes alone would do a million things to shift and begin the process of creating a different world by changing minds. This is the beginning of making the rest of things change like dominoes falling one by one. Give vocal respect and support as often as you can for those who are taking care of their families without pay and for people with pay who have families to get the support they desperately need. Because they ARE doing something for the world and their communities by being caring, dependable people whom others turn to that, thanks to their hard work and caring, does not cost a red cent. For that alone the country should get down on their knees and thank the workers of the world who care for children/family members and neighbors. Maybe some day it would merit what Venezuela and other countries do by supporting these hard working people with a wage. And for those who work for a wage, they need things such as paid family leave for the working parent (because now you know caretakers of children and elders work TWO jobs not just the paid one).

Just some thoughts of ways to help begin this change ...

Love
Cat

[Two Americas]

170. I understand

I didn't think you were doing a "guilt trip" on men - I will handle that one, LOL.

I just think that we need to hear what you are saying here.

[JeffR]

152. This deserves its own OP, Cat.

Everyone should read your words.

:yourock:

[Baby Snooks]

153. The reality of reality...

Americans prefer to not have to deal with reality and they prefer to believe that everyone is accorded the same protections and rights under the law in this country. The media does occasionally do a story about it. Usually after a tragedy has occurred as a result of the law not being enforced equally in this country. And then it's usually just a tragedy. Not a matter of the unequal application of law in this country. Just as we have economic disparity we have a disparity of justice in this country.

Paris Hilton gets justice. Paris Smith does not. Paris Hilton has the money to hire an attorney to ensure she gets justice. Paris Smith does not. Paris Hilton may not seem to be a good example to use because of course Paris Hilton has been on the "wrong side of the law" but actually that is one reason why she is a perfect example.

Paris Hilton was sentenced to 45 days in jail. Paris Smith probably would have been sentenced to 45 months in prison.

When the media does do a story on the tragedies, it usually manages to imply that the woman, or man, should have done this or that and then whatever happened wouldn't have happened. And usually it is sensationalized and turned into something else. Usually something that allows us to dismiss the victim.

Stalking for instance is usually something else. Usually a "domestic situation" as it was with Yvette Cade. Yvette Cade had left her husband. There was no longer a "domestic situation." But the media has convinced everyone, including Yvette Cade, that she was a victim of domestic abuse/violence.

And of course, well, the judge wasn't really at fault. Maybe he shouldn't have rescinded the restraining order. But her husband was trying to save the marriage. He told the judge he wanted to try marriage counseling. And to some, well, Yvette Cade should have given her husband a second chance. He was just angry when he doused her with gasoline and set her on fire. But it really was her fault. He was just trying to save the marriage.

That is how Americans deal with reality. They twist and turn it to make it less threatening to them. Usually by blaming the victim.

As a result of the media focus on the "domestic situation" the media created in the case of Yvette Cade, there are people in this country who believe stalking is a form of domestic abuse/violence. And as you have pointed out, if you're poor and have no access to attorneys, domestic abuse/violence just becomes a "domestic situation" that the two parties should simply resolve themselves. It is usually resolved by one of them standing over the body of the other with a gun or knife in their hand. And sometimes with a restraining order in the other.

The theme for this year's National Stalking Awareness Month was "Stalking: Know it. Name it. Stop it." I doubt even one person at this point in this country can name it let alone know it. Particularly when people believe it is a form of domestic abuse/violence. Particularly when people believe the law is enforced. When in fact it's not. The Department of Justice just released a report on stalking based on the first survey ever conducted on stalking. A survey that should have been conducted 20 years ago. Only 21% of the stalking cases reported in this country are prosecuted. Which adds to the revictimization. I suspect a similar figure is to be found with regard to prosecutions of domestic violence. Both really are not crimes. They are just "domestic things." In many cases, they aren't even situations to be addressed by anyone. They're just "things" going on between two people. No big deal. Certainly not something to clog our courts up with.

People don't believe someone is really being stalked when no one is prosecuted. In reality, few are. People often see bruises with victims of domestic abuse/violence. There are no bruises on stalking victims. Not on the outside where you can see them.

The report also avoids the distinction between domestic abuse/violence and stalking by hiding the stalking behavior involved in most domestic abuse/violence situations behind the word "harassment" which hides the horrible reality that while restraining orders sometimes do work in "domestic situations" they usually prove to be a death sentence for stalking victims. Yvette Cade was just lucky. Although when you look at her disfigured face it is hard to use the word lucky. But at least she is alive. Hers is the face of a stalking victim. Not the face of a victim of domestic abuse/violence.

I have moderated a forum for stalking victims for the past three years. I have seen it all. Not only in this country but in other countries. The forum, which serves as a peer support group, is one of only two real resources for stalking victims in this country. The other is the Stalking Resource Center which is a program of the National Center for Victims of Crime which was founded by the children of Sonny von Bulow - not everyone turns their backs on everyone else. Particularly when they have been victimized by the horrible civil and criminal justice system in this country. But they are the exception. Most indeed turn their back on victims. Speaking as a stalking victim, we scare people. Speaking as an advocate, we should scare people. We are testaments to how in a split second circumstance, or Fate, rather than choice can turn our lives into living nightmares.

Many of the women's organizations are not much better when it comes to stalking. They offer no real resources unless the stalking victim is also a victim of domestic abuse/violence and living with their stalker.

Stalking victims are stalked once they leave the relationship. Even a dating relationship. At that point it is no longer a domestic abuse/violence situation. And many end up dead because these women's organizations recommend obtaining a restraining order. Mainly to be able to dismiss them and not have to deal with them. And then turn their backs on the victim a second time when the stalking victim, as opposed to the victim of domestic abuse/violence, ends up lying in a pool of blood on a sidewalk with their stalker, as opposed to their former partner, standing there with a gun or knife in one hand and a restraining order in the other. Or being found having been burned to death as Yvette Cade almost was. She was a victim of domestic abuse/violence who managed to escape the cycle of abuse and violence and separate from her husband. She then became a stalking victim. Had anyone who dealt with her realized that, the judge might have realized it. No one did. And no one does.

No one offers anything to anyone who doesn't know their stalker. They just invariably want to know why someone you don't know would stalk you. And assume you must be paranoid. Or just crazy.

Until you're found lying in a pool of blood on a sidewalk. We do love our victims in this country. We love to dismiss them. Even, it seems, when they are found lying in a pool of blood on a sidewalk.

The one thing I have seen most is the number of women, and some men, who end up losing their homes, their security, and sometimes their kids. Almost all seem to have ended up in poverty depending on your definition of poverty. Most cannot afford an attorney. Which most stalking victims have to have at some point. That indicates to me that most are living in poverty. And there is no "pro bono" for stalking victims. And very little for victims of domestic abuse/violence. But of course their stalkers usually get court-appointed attorneys when they are tried for murder. If they're tried for murder. Sometimes they'll plead guilty to a charge of manslaughter. Sometimes a prosector will consider it a crime of passion. Rather than a crime of homicidal obsession. Stalkers normally do not want to reconcile. They want to kill. And some manage to do just that. With a little help from our criminal justice system. Which really doesn't take stalking seriously. But then it really doesn't take domestic abuse/violence that seriously either.

And god forbid the stalking victim or victim of domestic abuse/violence is gay or lesbian or involved in a bisexual relationship or is a transgendered person. Some attorneys believe they have no protections and rights under the law. Despite the courts having said that they in fact do. They are probably the "hidden community" within the homeless community in this country. No one talks about them at all it seems.

The Department of Justice study did not get into the matter of poverty - the only question they asked was had the person lost a job or were they fearful of losing their job as a result of the stalking.

That is very revealing when you think about it. The question should have been "have you encountered financial hardship as a result of the stalking?" But that would have linked the issue of stalking to the issue of poverty. And god forbid we should link crime to poverty in terms of crime being a causal dynamic with regard to poverty. Despite the fact that in many cases it is. Sometimes not so much because of the crime itself but of the criminal justice system that often revictimizes the victim. And stalking is a crime in all 50 states. On the books anyway. But it might make people feel sorry for some people who have found themselves living in poverty by circumstance rather than the choice we believe people make.

We are not supposed to feel sorry for people living in poverty. We are supposed to look down on them and shun them and then shame them in order to motivate them to lift themselves up by their bootstraps and get out of poverty by themselves. After all, they are in poverty because of their choices, aren't they? In reality, most aren't. Most are there because they were victimized and then revictimized. By all of us and our attitudes. Mainly the attitudes that it can never happen to us.

January is over. Two causes this month. National Poverty Awareness Month. National Stalking Awareness Month. I wonder if any of us learned anything. I doubt it. Too easy to just dismiss the victims.

[Raksha]

171. You nailed it!

Re That is how Americans deal with reality. They twist and turn it to make it less threatening to them. Usually by blaming the victim.

I've seen it over and over again.

[skygazer]

158. I wish I could recommend a single post because I would recommend this one

You are so right on in everything you say. People blame you for being poor. They blame you for having the children you're trying to take care of - even though, when the children were born, you were working and married and secure. But when your husband left, and left you holding thousands of dollars of bills, and you lost your job because you could no longer afford child care, and you had to go to the state with your hand out feeling like a loser, everyone cheerfully kicked in to help you feel like a loser.

Yeah, been there, done that.

I waited until I had a dollar in my pocket before I went to the welfare office and then I had to endure the stares of people who looked into my shopping cart to judge my food stamp purchases ("she's getting potato chips! And a chocolate bar! My tax dollars are buying her potato chips and a chocolate bar! Outrage!").

I do feel a bit cynical about getting the media to pay any attention to poverty and homelessness. Unless the particular story has a "feel-good" ending or features a family who managed to pull themselves up by their bootstraps or someone who was formerly "important" in some way, I really can't see it.

One thing I do think is a good move though is to write LTTE's. Or submit editorials. Because until the average American can look at those in poverty and see their own face staring back, they're not going to listen. Sad but true. :(

[bobbolink]

160. the point is NOT to "get media to print more feel-good stories" The POINT is INFORMATION.

As I said above, Do people know the number of low-income houses needed, vs, the number of low-income houses that EXIST?

Do people KNOW how many low-income homes are destroyed and not replaced each year?

Do people KNOW how many people are without food, medicine and a place to live in the richest country in the world?

NO... because the media doesn't report on this, and that includes the "progressive" media.

What we GET is the damned "human interest stories," which tell citizens virtually NOTHING.

Yes, it helps to put a human face on some of this, but that's ALL we're getting.

People don't know the simple FACTS.

That's what it's about... FACTS, not pleas for more charity.

[skygazer]

163. I understand that's what the point is and I agree

What I was saying is that I don't have a lot of faith in the media putting out any stories that are NOT feel-good stories. I'm not sure where the quoted part of your subject line came from in my post because that's not what I was saying at all.

Peace.

[G_j]

119. K&R!

[w4rma]

123. They are where the incomes of the super-wealthy come from. Who owns big media?

It is in their owners' best short-term interests to make sure the poor are unseen and unheard.

[Kurovski]

142. K&R. (nt)

[I Have A Dream]

143. How can people hear such stories and not want to just cry?

:(

K&R. Thank you for posting this.

[bobbolink]

185. Unfortunately, most people don't seem to have ANY reaction anymore.

And for those who *do* have the humanity left to cry, we then have to figure out how to take those tears and turn them into ACTIONs that CHANGE the poverty picture.

[Tindalos]

144. Thank you, NanceGreggs

I always look for your posts. Well-written and informative too.

[Fireweed247]

145. Check it out

Homelessness surges as funding falters
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28916152/

“We were hoping for the Christmas miracle,” says Glen Dennis, 41, who was working his way through a residential drug-treatment program at the CityTeam Ministries shelter. Dennis and the other 11 guys in the long-term program —dubbed the “disciples” — also worked each day to prepare for some 50 to 60 overnight shelter guests, and dish up free hot meals to about 100 people. “We kept doing what we were doing, and hoped someone would come by and drop off a big check.”

But the check did not come — even after a coalition of other shelters, nonprofits and local churches tried to pull together a rescue package to keep the shelter open. On Dec. 27, CityTeam Ministries, based in San Jose, Calif., closed the Seattle facility — leaving scores of people to seek food, shelter and sobriety elsewhere. For Dennis, who had been free of crack cocaine for nearly 11 months, the upheaval led to another painful relapse out on the streets."

[Tindalos]

154. Waiting for a Christmas miracle

that never came :(

It is very sad that so many are suffering. I'll try to do more.

[yellerpup]

148. Thank you for putting the focus on the people in our society

who have the most urgent needs. It takes so little effort to help and to make a difference if you have SOME time and money. You don't have to be rich to help, you don't have to dedicate all your spare time to help. Don't think about it -- just do it. The need is deep and the peril these people face is real. As usual, Nance, your writing brings heat and light--just what is needed in this harsh winter.

Edited for clarification.

[Tindalos]

181. "You don't have to be rich to help. . ."

That's it exactly. People forget that they don't have to single-handedly solve large problems like poverty. If everyone gave just a little (time, money, or whatever they can give), then the combined effort would do more good than any single person can achieve alone.

[Fireweed247]

197. yes!

:applause:

[yellerpup]

200. Community spirit needs to be revived.

Remember the Rosie the Riveter poster, where she has her sleeves rolled up, her bicep flexed and the caption reads: Can Do? It doesn't say Can Do It Alone. No matter what the question, Love is the answer. :hi:

[Tindalos]

208. Rosie the Riveter!

That's exactly the kind of spirit we need today. Rolled up sleeves and everyone getting to work just because the job needs to be done.
Yes, Love is the answer :hi:

[alarimer]

175. Our current administration apparently only cares about the middle class.

Well at least enough to set up a "Middle Class" task force, whatever that is supposed to be.

Oh, I guess poor people do not vote in large enough numbers. I would like to see a task force on eliminating poverty in this country. THEN we can work on helping the middle class, who have a lot more resources at their disposal than the homeless.

[dysfunctional press]

176. it's because the middle class is the driving force of the economy...

if/when the whole ball of wax goes down the toilet, there will be far fewer people in a position to help, and far more people who'll be needing it.

[angrycarpenter]

177. I have lived in and out of poverty all of my life.

Mostly in. You walk up and talk to people, they look at your worn out shoes, holy jeans, ragged shirt and their nose continues in an upward direction until they are looking down on you. Even if those clothes are clean they know that you are having hard times. Few people want to think about poverty, even fewer want to do anything about it.

Even liberals are sometimes guilty of blaming the victim even when they should know better. My conservative brother put it perfectly when he said "Quit worrying about other peoples troubles you will be a lot happier." Many people resent poor people when their desperate plight intrudes upon their carefully constructed illusions of a prosperous society.

I have been homeless before and if things continue the way they are I may well be again. I remember well how slippery the slope can be and how impossible it is to get back up. You begin to hate the people who walk by and studiously look the other way afraid that you may ask them for something. You want to grab them by the lapels of their new suit and say "Look at me you selfish asshole."

[Two Americas]

178. great post

You are writing some powerful stuff these days, carpenter. Thanks.

[mntleo2]

182. I know, I know, it is just humiliating!

I know of what you speak. I really do think the all pervasive attitudes that poverty is a personal problem, rather than a societal problem is what it is all about as the PERSON is treated as if it is all their fault. I keep this in mind when I get those "looks."

Please hang in there ...this is a difficult time and those of us who have been living on the edges are the ones who will get it first and the worst. I wish that we had a community where we could support one another.

BTW I was a cabinet maker apprentice in the 80's. The hard work was OK with me ~ but I could not take the politics (woman "breaking the mold," Reaganomics, union busting, and A LOT of union/management butt kissing ...). I have nothing but admiration for your tenacity that you are still a carpenter!

Cat In Seattle

[angrycarpenter]

183. carpentry is my only marketable skill.

I have never done anything else. Up until now I did well by being the best, most experienced man on the job and getting top pay. I never thought for minute that I would get rich doing it but it was steady.

[maryf]

193. kick, nt

[northofdenali]

209. Kick.

Job searching now, or joining the above soon. Spouse taking second job. Selling stuff as fast as possible.

NoD.