2 good NPR reports on anthrax - clearance, colleagues, family harassment

[Muttocracy]

Sorry if it's been posted before but just heard them - doesn't make it add up but some interesting details

Also, is it just me or are there different reports on how long he worked there - I've heard 30+ years and 18+ years?


Colleagues: Ivins' Suicide Not Proof Of Guilt

by David Kestenbaum and Andrea Seabrook

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93226268

Summary and audio pending - most interesting info was his colleagues NOT buying it, and info that his family members were taken separately for questioning, and TOLD that he was guilty.

-------------

Anthrax Case Raises Concerns About Lab Security
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93226178
summary up, audio soon

(Sounds like he was sort of grandfathered in, and that the clearance process is far from foolproof - but on the other hand, maybe nothing turned up because there was nothing there until recently! Seems like that one therapist is the only person saying these problems go back decades - and that was AFTER she was contacted by FBI/DoJ)

"Franz says people studying the disease didn't need clearances in order to work with the agents. Some people had clearances to access sensitive intelligence, but in general, the country was more concerned with protecting secret information than dangerous material.

Danley says things changed at the lab only after five people died from anthrax-laced letters in 2001.

"That's when locks went on doors and armed guards and the whole nine yards," he says.

After that, everyone needed security clearances.

By that point, Ivins had been working at the lab for decades."

[Taverner]

1. I smell a rat

A big, bulbous, stinking, cesspit-flavored rat.

[asjr]

2. I smell another lawsuit.

[Taverner]

3. Fuck lawsuits, I smell overwhelming evidence in the complicity of the Bush Admin in 9/11

[defendandprotect]

7. They will, I presume, try to intimidate the family not to sue . . . ?

Looks like direct connection here to the harassment if you believe the "suicide" . . .

and his lawyer says he was innocent and wanted to take it to court to prove that.

[Muttocracy]

4. one more story from Ari Shapiro this morning - plea deal & son's facebook entry

How can there simultaneously be a plea ageement underway while it also being called a capital case by other reports I've heard?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93218181
with audio

[spanone]

5. AP headline:After suicide, feds consider closing anthrax case

sooo convenient

~snip~
The chief suspect in the anthrax attacks now dead, the Justice Department is expected to decide within days whether to close what had been one of its most high-profile unsolved cases.

Five people died and 17 others were sickened when anthrax-laced letters began showing up at congressional offices, newsrooms and post offices soon after Sept. 11, 2001.

After wrongly investigating Army scientist Steven Hatfill, the FBI more than a year ago began looking at another suspect: Bruce E. Ivins, who worked at the same military lab. Ivins, a decorated scientist who was working on an anthrax cure, killed himself last Tuesday.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93218181

[Muttocracy]

6. kick/late edit - audio from colleague interviews is up now:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93226268

Kestenbaum (one of their science reporters) described colleagues as puzzled, close to tears, no evidence of homicidal past

Jeff Adamovich(?) - former boss - no way I can conceive he had anything to do with it

Scientists don't believe the DNA can be specifically traced to Ivins' lab

Ivins' friends - Ivins depressed in past few months - FBI had interrogated his whole family, each member in different location, investigators told them he had done things, he had worked for 30 yrs there

memorial planned for next weekend

repeat of son's facebook page quote.

[defendandprotect]

8. NPR: "overdosed on prescription painkillers" . .. ??

They really want to get rid of the Tylenol/codeine thing ---

Sounds like his entire family was being intimidated/threatened ---

[Muttocracy]

9. you mean that they're being less specific? nt

[defendandprotect]

10. It's the third variation on the original Tylenol/codeine . . .

Obviously, this new description can raise questions as to more hard-core PRESCRIPTION

painkillers which could only be PRESCRIBED . . . --

Pretty much changes the original concept of what he supposed had taken


AND ...

I noticed in one of the stories that when they responded to the phone call Ivins

was "unresponsive" but they didn't see "any signs of suicide" . . . !!!


ALSO ---

Evidently, this was the THIRD such call --- !!!

This happened twice before --- !!!

Was Ivins being attacked --- ?

Or had he tried to kill himself twice before --- ??

[Muttocracy]

11. hadn't heard those - having trouble keeping their story straight?

The clinic director (not his therapist) who is the one saying this goes way back in his history works on drug addiction cases I guess. I'm sure we'll be hearing he was actually a drug addict for years unbeknownst to his family and colleagues :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

12. No -- I think they're purposefully changing it ---

If you take Tylenol and codeine -- that's simply available -- you might even have it
handy at home --

You'd probably find a couple of bottles of ES Tylenol around every household ---

If you then move to "prescription painkillers" --- that has an entirely different meaning ---
first, that it was more powerful and required prescriptions.

Meanwhile, try to catch up with the stories of what happened with the three separate
calls to the home ---

As for those charging that this guy was a nut case -- aside from probably being driven
insane by FBI and whatever --- it looks rather like they are the questionable characters
in this mystery ---

[LiberalHeart]

13. It is an Rx pain killer -- Tylenol 3

I've taken it for back pain -- a combo of Tylenol and codeine. It's a very common Rx. I think there's also a Tylenol 4 with more codeine in it.

[defendandprotect]

14. Thank you for clearing that up -- !!! I had no idea . . .

Meanwhile, do they give you enough with a prescription to enable you to use it for
suicide?