Just to give some perspective for all you eat-the-rich folks out there

[knight_of_the_star]

A lot of people live in San Diego. Easily 3,000,000. At least 500,000 have been evacuated. That's like if you walked down any busy street and counted off people from one to six, every person that you count as number six would currently be an evacuee.

They come from all walks of life, rich, poor, middle class, homeless, renters, tenants, homesteaders, ranchers, migrant workers, natives on the reservations.

They are all colors, white, black, brown, red.

They are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles, aunts, cousins, sons, daughters, friends, lovers.

They are not a bunch of rich white yuppies and good riddance if they die.

There are people whose entire lives have just gone up in smoke and ash.

There are more people who will not be and have not slept a wink since this all started.

So the next ignorant prick who wants to say that they're just white yuppies and they get what they deserve for building their McMansions in fire-prone regions, think twice, then a third time.

You are no better than Babs when she said the poor from New Orleans holed up in Houston have had their situation improved by being there.

Human flesh doesn't smell any different when it burns if you are rich or poor. Human blood doesn't bleed blue if you went to Yale instead of CSU San Marcos. All human suffering is still suffering, regardless of who suffers.

ON EDIT: Had a nice visual but the link is being stupid. Also updating due to lack of picture to illustrate the number I posted up earlier

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. "building their McMansions in fire-prone regions"

Like it or not, that's what they did. Ever actually been to Rancho Santa Fe?

[knight_of_the_star]

3. Yes I have

And McMansions are far and away from the only thing in Rancho Santa Fe.

I lived in San Diego County for the first 21 years of my life, to paint it all with a broad brush as that is grossly disrespectful and can only be done if you ignore the facts that, guess what, those aren't the ONLY houses burning, not by a long shot. A bunch of my friends had to be evaced to Oceanside from Escondido, they lived in APARTMENTS, not in McMansions.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

5. I find your remark to be

really offensive.

I guess when people in the 9th Ward of New Orleans lost everything - it was stupid too. People should only live where it is "safe" Name a place that is really safe. Name an area free of natural disasters. We should all stay only where it is safe. Never live in the midwest... those tornados will kill you and the ice storms will kill you too. Never live anyplace on the gulf... Hurricanes. The Northwest- earthquakes and volcanos. Hawaii... Tsunamis, volcanos and earthquakes. Alaska - Earthquakes and volcanos and ice storms... Wyoming and Montana - earthquakes and ice storms. The Southeast - hurricanes all of the south - hurricanes, floods, droughts. New York that list is long but they have ice storms and blizzards and the terrorists love to crash jets there. I say that you may want to tell everyone who is in the middle of a disaster that we all deserve it because after all, we all knew that it could happen.

You are a real breath of fresh air with all your moralizing and I just bet you are the kind of person who tells their best friend how screwed up they are just because you believe they need to hear it for their own good.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. So, they didn't build those "communities" in a tinder box?

Glad I could offend you!

[knight_of_the_star]

7. I see you didn't address my post

But then again I'm not surprised. Its easy to make drive-by snipes when you aren't confronted straight up with someone who is NOT talking out of their ass.

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. The sad fact is that those homes are built on the edge of a vast wilderness

area that is extremely flammable. Calling me names & getting hysterical isn't going to change that. It's a risk that you take when you choose to live there.

[Breeze54]

16. "Just like the residents in New Orleans"? Should they have lived by a lake and ocean and river?

Your ignorance is showing.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. Who said a god damn thing about New Orleans?

[Breeze54]

23. You're saying the exact same thing as rethugs & Mrs Bush said!

You sound just like them!

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. So Mrs Bush said it?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Breeze54]

33. You don't remember the rethugs saying that New Orleans should never have been built

there and that it should not be rebuilt??

Rebuild New Orleans?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/04/feedback.rebuild.b/

------------------

House Speaker Denny Hastert has gone on record saying New Orleans should not be rebuilt.
The governor of Louisiana demanded an apology.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news&id=3409325

Should New Orleans rebuild?
By Paul Meincke

September 2, 2005 -

House Speaker Denny Hastert has gone on record saying New Orleans should not be rebuilt.
The governor of Louisiana demanded an apology. What do the infrastructure experts think?
A large portion of New Orleans housing is wood frame which cannot likely survive weeks in the water.
The utilities are a mess and basic infrastructure in many areas is beyond repair.

House Speaker Denny Hastert has a large say-so in the form and fashion of federal aid for New Orleans,
and when a Daily Herald reporter asked him this week if billions of dollars should be
spent rebuilding a city that sits largely below sea-level, he said,
"I think it's a question that certainly we should ask.
And you know, it looks like a lot of that place could be bull-dozed."

Louisiana's governor heard that remark to say that New Orleans is not worth the investment,
and she demanded an immediate apology from Hastert.

"To kick us when we're down, to destroy hope when hope is the only thing we have left, is
absolutely unthinkable for a leader in his position," said Gov. Kathleen Blanco, Louisiana.

[Lurking Dem]

18. So because I have a chronic illness

my husband should not be sad when I die because he "knew I was sick"?!?!?

[AZBlue]

30. You should apply your own logic to yourself.

Getting mad if people call you names & get hysterical isn't going to change the fact that you're insensitive, boorish or reprehensible. It's a risk that you take when you choose to post such detestable comments.

[The_Casual_Observer]

34. If saying that they built those places next to a world class fire hazard

is "detestable" than so be it.

[AZBlue]

47. Are you pretending to be stupid or are you really that filled with hate?

Either way, I feel sorry for you.

[The_Casual_Observer]

50. I don't hate anybody, those places are built in bad locations

as far as fire hazards go. If you don't agree with me then that's it I guess.

[KamaAina]

51. "They" (the residents) did not build those places

greedy developers did. Now "they", including lots of Dems and even a few DUers, are paying for bad choices made by the greedy developers.

[Terran]

9. Wow

I'm finding it hard to believe that someone with such an utter lack of compassion even bothers to post at DU. Geez.

[Breeze54]

13. The embers are flying for MILES and starting the fires!!

The Santa Ana winds are blowing embers for miles and miles and starting fires!!

You seem not be able to deal with reality.

Maybe you shouldn't be listening to The Young Turks anymore on AAR!!

:grr:

----------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071023/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires_182"> Calif. fires consume hundreds of homes

By ALLISON HOFFMAN and GILLIAN FLACCUS, Associated Press Writers 1 hour, 24 minutes ago

SAN DIEGO -

Walls of wind-whipped flames consumed hundreds of homes across tinder-dry Southern California
on Tuesday, raising the number of people forced to flee the flames into the hundreds of thousands.

The blazes bedeviled firefighters as fires roared from mountain passes to the edges of the state's
celebrated coastline, spreading so quickly that even hotels serving as temporary shelters for
evacuees had to be evacuated. Two people have been killed.

By day three, the dozen wildfires had burned more than 1,300 homes and businesses, and the destruction
may only be the start for the region. With temperatures rising and wind gusts remaining fierce,
the flames were proving nearly impossible to fight.

Marilee Bishop of Running Springs and her 10 year-old-daughter, Erica, rubbed their red eyes
Tuesday morning as they woke up in a Wal-Mart parking lot where they spent the night after
being forced to leave their home.

"No one ever expects something like this to happen to them," said Bishop, as thick smoke rose
in the skies behind her.

Since they began Sunday, the fires have burned at least 373,000 acres, or 583 square miles
— an area larger than New York City. Fully a quarter of the California coast was ablaze.
Flames climbed halfway toward the Nevada line, chewing through chunks of seven counties
and devastating numerous communities.

snip-->

The scope of the infernos was immense and was reminiscent of the blazes that tore
through Southern California four years ago this month, killing 22 and destroying 3,640 homes.

The fires have been made worse by fierce Santa Ana winds. The winds — which sweep through
Southern California's canyons in fall and winter — are stronger than normal, turning already
parched scrubland into tinder. They generated walls of flame that bore down on housing
developments in a wide swath.

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. Right.

Show me where one house is burning "miles away" from the edge of those canyons & hills. Just one.

[Breeze54]

28. So now you know more than the firefighters?

:shrug:

WoW!! :crazy:

---------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071023/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires_182

Since they began Sunday, the fires have burned at least 373,000 acres, or 583 square miles — an area larger than New York City. Fully a quarter of the California coast was ablaze. Flames climbed halfway toward the Nevada line, chewing through chunks of seven counties and devastating numerous communities.

At least 346,000 homes were ordered to evacuate in San Diego County alone, sheriff's officials said. But the total number could be much higher, and state officials were still struggling to estimate how many people had fled.

As the fires spread, most out of control, smaller blazes were merging into larger, more fearsome ones. Evacuations were being announced in one community after another as firefighters found themselves overwhelmed by gale-force Santa Ana winds, some gusting to 70 mph.

Authorities hadn't even begun to estimate the dollar value of the damage in some of the hardest-hit areas.

A fire that struck Ramona, a city outside San Diego, had destroyed 650 structures.

A blaze near Fallbrook, on the eastern edge of Camp Pendleton, wiped out another 500,
or three buildings for every one firefighter allocated to it.

And 200 more buildings burned in a fire just south of Potrero, across from the Mexican city of Tecate.

[The_Casual_Observer]

31. Every one of those places is on the very edge of vast expanses of dry

wilderness area. Somehow you seem to have the impression that this thing is like Dresden or something, perhaps that's how it looks via CNN.

[Breeze54]

35. The current town of Ramona was founded in 1886

Fallbrook - Fallbrook is situated immediately east of the U.S. Marine Corps' Camp Pendleton.
It once housed a stagecoach stop for the stage that ran from Temecula to San Diego.

Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton - The base was established in 1942 to train U.S. Marines for service in World War II.

Tecate - The Jesuits founded a permanent mission colony on the peninsula at Loreto in 1697. During the following decades, they gradually extended their sway throughout the present state of Baja California Sur. In 1751-1753, the Croatian Jesuit mission-explorer Ferdinand Konščak made overland explorations northward into the state of Baja California. Jesuit missions were subsequently established among the Cochimí at Santa Gertrudis (1752), San Borja (1762), and Santa María (1767).

Baja California is subdivided into five municipios (municipalities). See municipalities of Baja California.

* Ensenada
* Mexicali
* Tecate
* Tijuana
* Playas de Rosarito

[The_Casual_Observer]

37. I couldn't think of a better example of a place that's in the middle

of a wilderness area surrounded by flammable brush that has been "built up" in the last 20 years. The Jesuit mission aspect is kind of cute, but the Romona of today is all sprawl backed up against wilderness terrain.

[Breeze54]

40. Why did you build in a fire prone area??

:shrug:

CAN YOU SAY HYPOCRITE???

[The_Casual_Observer]

45. I didn't & don't.

Sadly, the vast expanses of flat farm lands & orange groves that surrounded my "estate" are all gone now. The parched hillsides are a good safe distance away from here.

[rinsd]

27. Hmmm did you blast the city of New Orleans for building on a delta?

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. No

That city was built up over the last 200 years. Unlike the areas in question where they should have known better, but they didn't care.

[Breeze54]

36. Bogus reasons as many of these towns were built in the 1700's, 1800's and early 1900's!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2118830&mesg_id=2119804

As I said up thread, your ignorance is showing and also your lack of empathy.

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. You must not be from around here.

Those places have been built up in the last 20 years. Sure there was a ranch or two in just about anyplace, but big housing tracts are new to these places.
As the sprawl has crept further & further out they have "developed" land in remote places like Ramona, Temecula & so on with big housing tracts. People commute hours a day to San Diego & LA from them them.

[Breeze54]

41. I lived in SD County for a few yrs, so you're wrong.

[The_Casual_Observer]

42. Ever been to Ramona?

[Breeze54]

44. Why did you build in a fire prone zone?

[The_Casual_Observer]

46. It's not in the least.

Shows you how much you know.

[Breeze54]

48. stop fibbing!

Monday, October 22, 2007
Threat to Tustin "significantly diminished," officials say
Fire heads to Modjeska, Silverado canyons; burns through 18,000 acres.
BY ERIKA M. TORRES
STAFF WRITER
Comments | Recommend

"Tustin dodged the bullet," Councilman Jerry Amante said Tuesday after recounting
the mandatory evacuations of the northern part of Tustin Ranch Sunday evening.

Fires that have spread throughout Southern California, prompting Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger
to declare a state of emergency, initially threatened parts of Tustin on Sunday evening before
heading south to Irvine and Foothill Ranch....

[The_Casual_Observer]

49. Those places are miles away & nobody in their right mind would

live out there. That canyon is dry with tall weeds & thick brush. Once you get away a mile or so from the canyons & hills it's all pretty flat & built up all the way down to the Pacific Ocean. The only threat of fire being a candle or maybe grease fire.

[Romulox]

11. Haven't you heard? "Compassion" means that all the rules of physics don't apply.

How dare you question my right to do whatever I want to do without regard for the consequences? :sarcasm:

[The_Casual_Observer]

26. I get the feeling that there are some people who don't get out much

to those parts & see just exactly where they have built the homes that are in question/jeopardy here.

[Breeze54]

39. Why did YOU build so close to a fire zone???????????

Your town was under a FIRE & SEVERE winds warning!!!

------------------------------

Threat to Tustin "significantly diminished," officials say

http://www.ocregister.com/news/fire-ranch-tustin-1901972-lascelles-sunday

Monday, October 22, 2007

Fire heads to Modjeska, Silverado canyons; burns through 18,000 acres.

BY ERIKA M. TORRES
STAFF WRITER

"Tustin dodged the bullet," Councilman Jerry Amante said Tuesday after recounting
the mandatory evacuations of the northern part of Tustin Ranch Sunday evening.

Fires that have spread throughout Southern California, prompting Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger
to declare a state of emergency, initially threatened parts of Tustin on Sunday evening before
heading south to Irvine and Foothill Ranch.

more....


-------------------------

Tustin, California

http://www.citytowninfo.com/places/california/tustin

Nearest Large City - 2 miles E of Santa Ana, California

Introduction to Tustin, California

The California city of Tustin is located in Orange County, adjacent to the county seat of Santa Ana and about 10 miles southeast of Anaheim. Interstate I-5 services the city and connects it to both Anaheim and Los Angeles (to the north) and San Diego (about 87 miles to the south). Other major highways near the city include California State Highways 22, 55, and 261.

Founded in 1868 by Philadelphia farmer and entrepreneur Columbus Tustin, the predominantly farming community was slow to develop in comparison with its neighbors, taking nearly 60 years before its population would reach 500. The city finally incorporated in 1927, and during World War II three military bases were established in the area. The city's growth, however, didn't hit stride until the 1950s when the advent of freeways, quality schools, and post-war industries saw the city's population skyrocket as orange groves were replaced by homes. The city today is mostly an urban area with historic districts and a few old sycamores providing the primary evidence of the city's past. Trees are still seen in abundance, making it clear why the city has earned the nickname "The City of the Trees".

-------------

http://www.wunderground.com/US/CA/Tustin.html

Active Advisory: Wind Advisory , Fire Weather Warning (US Severe Weather)
Active Notice: Local Storm Report

Tonight
Clear. Areas of smoke and patchy blowing dust. Lows 60 to 69. Light winds.

Wednesday
Sunny. Areas of smoke and patchy blowing dust. Highs 82 to 87 near the coast to 92 to 97 inland. Light winds.
» ZIP Code Detail

Wednesday Night
Clear. Areas of smoke. Lows 58 to 63. Light winds.

Thursday
Mostly sunny. Areas of smoke. Highs 74 to 79 near the coast to 84 to 89 inland. Light winds.
» ZIP Code Detail

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[silverweb]

2. Thanks for that.

The only thing I'd change is a number, as the total _population_ county wide is a bit over 3 million.

The more than 300,000 evacuated is more than 10% of the total county population and the number of structures lost is now over 1500. That's a lot of people displaced and a lot of homes destroyed. Homes damaged but not destroyed are bound to be at least double that number.

I'm not at risk, but a lot of good people are, and it's highly offensive to make assumptions about them and mock them.

[knight_of_the_star]

4. Last I heard the number is even higher

Up past 500k evacuated. That's one in six of those in the whole county, that's like if you walked down the street and counted people off by sixes every sixth person would be a refugee. Think about that for a moment.

ON EDIT: Updated the number in my original post.

[silverweb]

8. And no end in sight.

It's impossible to keep up and we won't know the full extent of the damage and its effects on people for some time yet.

I don't personally know anyone who's been displaced, but a couple of friends are housing relatives who had to leave their homes and have no idea yet if there will be anything left standing.

There will be a lot of health repercussions because of the air quality, too. Lots of retirees in San Diego -- lots of elderly people with respiratory compromise. UCSD's Burn Unit is full, too, and overflow patients are using other ICU beds.

What a mess. ;(

[knight_of_the_star]

10. Here's to hoping we can still pick up what's left and put it back together

This is going to be one hell of a mess for years to come to clean up after.

At least as a plus any rebuilding in the area now will, without a doubt, have to conform to stricter standards to keep this from happening again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Don't count on it

the leadership in this county is the developpers, and their pals

There was quite a bit of screaming when the fire proof shingles came

You think they will not scream?

Me... it is also the materials we use to build, not the best choice, if you get me drift

[silverweb]

24. Let's hope.

I have my doubts, though. My daughter brought up the toxins in the air from all those homes burning, too, and thinks that any new buildings should be more "green" (toxin free) as well as less flammable.

That will, of course, cause another kind of firestorm in the building industry, since developers want to do what they want to do to maximize only one thing: their profits.

I'm hopeful, but as with any change, it's going to be an uphill battle all the way to try to get it right.

PS - I just transcribed two consecutive emergency room admissions because of acute respiratory distress. No end in sight.

[Bigmack]

14. Your post subject has nothing to do with the body of the post...

Those poor bastards running for their lives and losing their homes are NOT the rich. Those folks are just people who live in reasonably nice areas in reasonably nice homes. In Socal, that means over a half million. Those folks make perhaps $200K per household. That ain't rich.

The real rich have houses worth millions.... several mansions for each one. If they lose one.... well, they're not living in Qualcom Stadium. They earned their millions the old-fashioned way.... they inherited it!

Those are the people I want to eat.... well.... not eat them. They're so fucking rotten they'd poison me.

[Critters2]

17. I don't intend to opine about any of the rest of this....

but $200k a year is rich. It just is.

[Lurking Dem]

22. Not in an area

where it costs a million bucks for a 1960's ranch home on a 60x80 lot.

[skyblue]

21. Basically if it wasn't for rich people who could afford 2 grand there would be no Dem Party.

[rinsd]

25. Here's some numbers on earnings, poverty & income inequality 9in San Diego County

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2119571&mesg_id=2119571