The licensing standards for drivers in the US are pathetically low

[Jonathan50]

Driving is by far the most dangerous activity in which practically all Americans engage.

And yet we take it so casually and so for granted that we do not even bother to properly train people to control an automobile before the state issues them a license granting them the privilege of driving on the public roadways.

Beyond a doubt, the single most effective thing that could be done to reduce the carnage on our nation's highways and byways would be to ensure that every new driver has the training necessary to properly control an automobile under less than optimum conditions.

Driver's education classes should be mandatory in every high school in the country. The training should be a full year long regular class and consist of theoretical class study, on the road training and simulator training, even if it has to be done on regular PCs. The software for this exists as does the hardware, race car simulations on the PC have achieved a very high level of realism and steering wheels, brake and gas pedals are available in practically every gaming store in the country.

Ten years ago I had an Indy car simulator which taught me that Indy cars are stable at low speeds and stable at high speeds but squirrely as hell in between those extremes. I eventually figured out that the reason for this is because at medium speeds the cars do not generate sufficient aerodynamic downforce to properly push the cars down on their tires generating traction.

The technology exists, the training does exist but is rarely employed, what is lacking is the will to do the right thing and get incompetent, dangerous drivers off the road.

[tyedyeto]

1. True

I moved to AZ in 2001 at the age of 49. My drivers license will expire in 2017. How do they know what my capabilities will be that many years in the future?

My son moved to AZ to attend Northern Arizona University when he was 21. When he applied for and received his drivers license, it was good until he was 65!!! Of course, if it had ever been suspended, it would no longer be good for that length of time, but.... why is a state giving DLs for 40+ years?

[A HERETIC I AM]

2. Regarding your point about Indy cars....

It is not entirely true that:

Indy cars are stable at low speeds and stable at high speeds but squirrely as hell in between those extremes.

This would only be the case for an Indy car in Speedway trim, like this one;

notice the small front and rear wings.

Your other statement:

medium speeds the cars do not generate sufficient aerodynamic downforce to properly push the cars down on their tires generating traction.

Is not entirely true when wing changes are made for road and street courses as well as the short ovals.

Here is a "Champcar" (Essentially the same style chassis with the same aerodynamic properties) in full road course trim. Notice the compound wings both front and rear. They add drag but also produce tremendous downforce throughout the speed range.



It should also be noted that these type race cars have what are essentially "underwings" or sculpted bottoms that have venturi shaped tunnels starting roughly in the center extending to the rear. These tunnels produce a massive low pressure system under the cars, adding to the downforce produced by the wing sets on top.

The rest of your post i couldn't agree with more. I have held a CDL for 30 years and i have well over 1.5 million miles all across this country and i can tell you, Americans are dismally badly trained automobile operators.

[Jonathan50]

4. The only racetrack I had in the game was a high speed oval..

So that was my only experience to go on.

Like all flat statements, there was a substantial chance of what I said being not completely true..

I was really just pointing out that even ten years ago the physics of automobile behavior was being modeled quite well.

In my closet sits a force feedback joystick which I haven't "flown" in at least five years.. But when I did, the aerodynamic forces were modeled very well indeed.

On edit: I got the sim out of the bargain bin at Comp USA or Circuit City or somewhere so it wasn't new when I got it. I buy almost nothing at full price..

[BlooInBloo]

3. In case anyone's interested, here's the best no-educational-prereqs explanation....

... of what's involved with the physics of racing/driving.

http://phors.locost7.info/contents.htm

[pnwmom]

5. One out of 5 weekend night drivers

is drunk.

All the classes in the world won't take care of that problem.

[Jonathan50]

6. What does that have to do with the OP?

There have been plenty of threads about drunk drivers just lately, go and complain on one of those please.

And in fact, most of the drunk drivers I have known ( and I know more than a few, being in construction) were piss poor drivers completely stone cold sober.

Someone who can't drive when they are sober damn sure isn't going to improve when they are drunk.

[pnwmom]

7. Drivers under the influence cause a great deal of the "carnage" on the road.

I don't have a lot of complaints about Seattle area drivers in general. I don't see the "piss poor drivers" you're talking about, except sometimes on Friday and Saturday nights.

Getting the drunks off the road would make us all safer.

[Jonathan50]

8. If you don't see piss poor driving every day you aren't paying attention

Just take a look at the cell phone while driving thread.

Not to mention that there are a great deal of drunk drivers on the road during the day in the middle of the week.

Drunk driving, it's not just for Saturday night anymore.

[pnwmom]

9. But that's exactly my point.

We already require drivers training here. Increasing the number of hours or teaching more skills won't do anything about the bigger problem -- sheer stupidity: driving with cell phones, while drunk, while applying makeup, etc. etc.

[Jonathan50]

10. OK, you win...

All Americans are superb drivers unless they are distracted or drunk..