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"DON'T BLINK DON'T BACK DOWN" John Kerry's plan to win the House

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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:08 PM
Original message
"DON'T BLINK DON'T BACK DOWN" John Kerry's plan to win the House


Dear DU,

Over at their posh headquarters on First Street -- just a few blocks from the U.S. Capitol -- they're sitting around scratching their heads. They just had to spend over $5 million in national GOP money to hold on to the California House seat vacated by Randy "Duke" Cunningham.

They eked out a "victory" by pouring in close to $100 for every vote cast in favor of their candidate -- in a district so Republican, they shouldn't have had to lift a finger.

Looking ahead to 435 House races, 33 Senate races, and hundreds of state and local contests, the strategists at Republican Party headquarters know that their $100 a vote formula just doesn't work.

They can't buy their way out of this one.
https://contribute.keepingamericaspromise.com/s7a.html?sc=7115

There aren't enough heavy-hitting Bush Pioneers left on the planet to help 2006 GOP candidates overcome their Iraq mistakes, their Katrina incompetence, and their miserable record of failure on everything from homeland security to health care to the environment.

But we've got a formula that works.

Act now to support four key Democratic candidates
https://contribute.keepingamericaspromise.com/s7a.html?sc=7115

We're throwing the entire weight of our online community behind strong Democratic candidates running in the closest, most critical races of 2006. And we're not letting up until we see them through to victory.

Can we count on you to act right now? Support Tammy Duckworth, a proud Iraq war veteran running a tough, spirited campaign in Illinois. Stand with Harry Mitchell from Arizona as he takes on J.D. Hayworth, so out of the mainstream that he even stands out in a GOP House packed with extremists.

Help Mary Jo Kilroy win a critical race in Ohio against a high-ranking member of the GOP leadership. And put it on the line for Jim Webb, a tough Marine running an all-out Senate race in Virginia.

Act now to support four key Democratic candidates
https://contribute.keepingamericaspromise.com/s7a.html?sc=7115

Strong, committed candidates like these are going to give the Republicans fits on November 7th. And then they're going to help you and me move America in a new, more promising direction.

Pick one or two candidates to help. Or, better still, give all four of them a donation right now -- at the point in the campaign when your gift can make an enormous difference.

Let's get it done.

On to victory,

John Kerry


I don't live in her state but I think I'll send Tammy Duckworth a little cash through the Kerry link. She's already given PLENTY for her country and if she wants to give more, I want to help.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. not so fast folks
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why do you say that?
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. her combat injuries. she's in a wheelchair for life. thanks 4 a kick ax10
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Prefer not to learn about victory from John Kerry
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. his last "plan" didnt work too well did it...against election fraud anyway
so let's hope the new version accounts for fraud.


Msongs
www.msongs.com
batik & digital art
get your pics on shirts!
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
39. nope it doesn"t i guess you'll have to break out a sign and do it yourself
kerry is kinda busy keeping storm troopers off your door step right now.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #39
68. I'm With Ya Ghost!!!
Here come the roaches once again...
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #68
77. did you bring a can of RAID?
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #77
116. kick
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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
108. and they complain against people complaining...
Edited on Fri Jun-09-06 09:41 PM by MsMagnificent
Forget it msongs, Terran, lastknown, cigsandcoffee, et al... even though there are more than ample reasons to distrust Kerry's 'Fighting Spirit' --well, the spirit may be there but his action was sorely lacking-- his followers here will trash you, as they have already (to wit: Troll, cockroaches, worthless, stupid, crack-smoking, your heads up your ass -- simply lovely, isn't it?), perhaps even follow you around to other boards to harass you as they did to me.

It ain't worth it.
There is nothing you can say that will change their feelings one iota, nor elicit a more civil response.
Nor are they not going to respect your, or anybody elses, feelings that "I got your back" Kerry betrayed us.

In fact, as happy as I was that RFK, Jr. recently came out with his Ohio article, I couldn't help but feel it was so very futile... after Kerry gave up so early, anything beyond was really moot. All those disenfranchisement problems were known that election day, but without anyone immediately fighting them it effectively neutered any valid, urgent concerns finally articulated 1.5 years later... and that is the biggest and longest lasting misfortune of all, even beyond these 4 more years of * because the GOP got away with another stolen election and it will be pure hell, if even possible, to ever recover our right to have our vote counted.


Now, people, go ahead and flame me Freeper-style as you do so very well. Obviously I, or anyone else, are not allowed to have a differing opinion than yours -- and if we do, we're worthless, stupid crack-smoking cockroach-trolls with our heads up our asses. :eyes:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #108
122. I'm surprised no one answered you at all MsMagnificent....
do you think they've ALL clicked "ignore" with your posts?
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I prefer more to hear it from him than some random DU poster
I suppose you have done more to get candidates elected in 2006 than John Kerry has? :eyes:
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Well, if he has hurt..
: p
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. do you think this story applies to our fine feathered friends that posted
so far WildEyedLiberal?


While based on a true story, the names have been changed to protect the guilty. Please don't assume it is written in a juvenile format to imply that it is childish to lash out at someone just because some birds must blame others for problems they let happen by not working hard enough.

THE LEGEND OF THE CHIKENHAWKS AND THE EAGLE

Once upon a time in the land of Chicken-Hawk Haven an eagle was born. Not long after he learned to fly, a war with some well-trained falcons broke out on the other side of the planet.

Falcons are seasoned fighting birds born into a war that constantly rages in their land but this is not a falcon story. Instead, this is a tale of the species Chicken-Hawkia, which only slightly resembles the birds of a feather cliché. Gold feathers adorn not just the wings but also the nests of one class of hawk, while the others have mostly tan or brown feathers. Of course the golden feathered Chicken-Hawks willingly welcome fine feathered eagle families into their nesting tree because hanging with eagles is sophisticated and stylish for the smaller raptors.

The bird wars seem unfair in retrospect because gold-feathered hawks started the trouble and then ordered the brown hawks to try and win the battles, often with dire consequences. In fact, high-class hawks, like eagles, did not have to fight at all and believe me MANY upscale Chicken-Hawks made that very choice.

Strangely, however, the Eagle DID decide protecting other birds was important enough to risk his life and proved to be a valiant, victorious fighter, until one day when his heart cried out war is wrong.

Slightly forlorn, the Eagle flew home only to be greeted by chicken-like cackles and crowish caws that he had not yet done enough to serve Birdom. Undaunted, the Eagle actually agreed and promptly picked up a sign to protest war and save hawk lives. Still, those haunting cackles raised his hackles by screeching not enough Eagle! NOT ENOUGH YET!

So the Eagle decided to serve Birdom again and lead his local flock in a way that was more fair than they actually deserved. He served many years in Birdington DC before once again nay saying cackles raised his hackles. NOT ENOUGH, NOT ENOUGH, they chirped.

You see, some 24K nut-case cackler had somehow snatched control of Birdom and he was quite tyrannical, considering 24K was one of the most cowardly Chicken-Hawks ever. Reluctantly, the Eagle stepped forward to run against the better financed bird in Hawk-idential elections. The Eagle would have gotten that top job handed to him years ago, like Chimp-Hawk, had he simply taken all those golden feathers powerful Chicken-Hawks offered him. Ole' 24K even owned most of the bird-media, including the New York, Fly-by-nightTimes.

With not only media against him but also a lot of public opinion, Eagle ended up using many personal feathers in the race. Considering 24K was an incumbent Chicken-Hawk dealing from his own stacked deck, so to speak, the Eagle flew pretty well. Still, the cheeping of Hawks split the night air with, "NOT ENOUGH, NOT ENOUGH EAGLE."

After an all night feather count in a very close race, tensions at the Eagles Nest ran high. Then, the outcome was revealed. From his frustration, Eagle screamed for a recount of the almost won contest. Eagle was not used to losing because he was a winner. His call was heard throughout Birdom but down at Bird-beach where 24K's bird-brained brother ruled, the count was already cast in stone. Still, Eagle watched patiently from his perch until all manner of breaches in birdism broke out. Then, Eagle flew home because he was very tired and sick that the very Birdom many of his comrades-at-wing had died to protect was now reduced to a vulture's buffet.

As Eagle flew away to a much deserved rest, he could still hear the cackles say, "NOT ENOUGH, NOT ENOUGH EAGLE" but will it ever be enough for every bird in the forest? While the Chimp-bird shows you can fool all of the birds some of the time and some birds all of the time, all Eagle proves is that some birds will screech, NOT ENOUGH anytime, no matter how much you give.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
43. good ole du. i have been away. kerry workin, and posters trashin
now that is what i am sayin

nothin like support of dems to be a winning party. much better to throw a jab in whenever you see a dem you dont like. get it in fast in case someone says something nice about him
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. What the hell would that wimp know about fighting and not backing
down. If Duckworth wants money I'm willing to support her, but not the wimp of 2004.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I guess it is for people like you that Ignore exists/
Edited on Thu Jun-08-06 09:03 PM by Mass
because I am not sure who is the wimp here.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. We're being inundated with demoralization trolls.
and Ignore works beautifully.

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. "demoralization trolls"
You pegged it perfectly!
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. I like it!
demoralization trolls! They're everywhere!

Particularly in any thread mentioning the name "Kerry", no matter WHAT it's about.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. Because YOU WOULD HAVE DONE - - - - - What?
Edited on Thu Jun-08-06 10:26 PM by blm
Please tell us all YOU would have done differently with all your control of the media. Please share.


I do believe that Kerry doesn't even blink when hordes of DUers declare he's a wimp or a coward - the man has chased down a guy with a shoulder rocket firing at his crew, put himself through heavy gunfire to save a guy in the water, protested Vietnam, testified to Congress, prosecuted and put away MAFIA figures, worked alone for over a year to uncover IranContra, worked another 5 years to uncover BCCI - which were probably more dangerous to his life than Vietnam, exposed CIA drugrunning, wrote a book about terror networks 5 years before 9-11, and took every arrow from the 2004 campaign that was shot at him, and is still standing working for us.


Too many people here only care about rhetoric and positioning - few care about REAL actions.
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
58. Now which one of the candidates that didn't make it through the primary
Edited on Fri Jun-09-06 01:27 AM by _dynamicdems
would that be? You might not care for Kerry, but he beat Clark, Dean and Edwards among others. It wasn't even close. I guess your revisionist history doesn't take that into account.

By your logic, they are all wimps because they were beaten by Kerry. Oh, but that CAN'T be true. These guys are liberal HEROES. It couldn't be that nobody voted for them. No that could never be!

It must have been a massive Democratic insider conspiracy that made them lose! Or was it was pre-ordained by visitors from the planet Dumberthanshit conspiring with Skullsandboners? They had to make sure the fix was in. They even caused the Dean scream. You see...there was something...under the podium.


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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
69. good bye (nt)
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #69
81. bye stepnw1f and thanks for standing up for what you believe
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow! Only 10 posts and already this thread is filled with ********
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Bullshit?
Maybe. I have nothing against anyone trying to raise money, but I think it's more effective for people to find a local or nearby race and give to the candidate, and volunteer time for the candidate. That's what I am doing.

The second best is giving directly to a favorite candidate in a non-local race.

Giving the way Kerry opposes would be, in my opinion, the least desireable way and least effective way to help get Dems elected, because there is less personal involvement. Unless of course part of the goal is supporting Kerry in 08'. Politics works that way I guess.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. And giving to Clark?\nt
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Clark has asked his supports to donate to candidates directly.
The funds he raises for WesPaC go only to support WesPac, keeping the site up and running, and funding Clark's work on behalf of Democrats. I haven't donated to WesPac this year, but I have donated directly to candidates. I often get e-mails for Clark asking me to donate to particular Democrats. Unfortunately, I can't respond to all of them so I have to pick and choose. Mostly, I'm working to flip CA-11 since that is the nearest competitive House race.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. The money donated through KAP DOES go directly to candidates.
Edited on Thu Jun-08-06 09:24 PM by WildEyedLiberal
That's why there's a disclaimer at the bottom saying the email is sponsored by not only Keeping America's Promise but also the individual campaigns. There is an option if you donate to give to the general KAP fund, but the money donated to candidates goes straight to the candidate. KAP doesn't slice off a portion of the money. If you donate $10 to Tammy Duckworth via KAP, Tammy Duckworth gets $10. Period.

I certainly don't think Kerry is suggesting that a quick donation over the internet be in lieu of local volunteering or donating.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. That's great. I'll nominate the thread. n/t
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Cool, thanks n/t
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #29
85. AND SPECIAL THANKS TO WildEyedLiberal one of my DU HEROS!
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #85
86. Anytime, man
:hug:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #86
95. You've been there plenty for me when the odds get bad WildEyedLiberal
and I won't forget it!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. this is what i am thinking. shame shame n/t
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #44
88. you can say that again seabeyond, thanks for your comments.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. GIVE DIRECT TO CANDIDATES. FIGHT LOCALLY, THINK NATIONALLY. N/T
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Give the way you want, but give. Who cares.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Certainly anyone should give however they wish to give.
No argument there. I have my preferences and others have theres, but it's all good. I do think giving direct is the most effective, however, because there is no middle person or entity.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
107. AND BEING DISCRIMINATING IN WHERE YOU GIVE IS PURE WISDOM...
Give the most to certain candidates who can truly win and help Democrats control House and Senate. Don't do like me and fight windmills by tossing cash to environmental causes that can do nothing until we get BIG OIL off our throats. Give it to Dems first, fix the environment, world hunger, etc. next, after we have some chance of bringing real change.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. those link go DIRECTLY TO CANDIDATES!
Edited on Thu Jun-08-06 09:09 PM by Jeffersons Ghost
hit the links and give DU please don't let them hold the HOUSE or we're all doomed!

DUCKWORTH IS CLOSE and they're spending BIG TIME to beat her.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. I will give it that 5th star. And why all the whining here?
Quit crying about Kerry and try to go positive, folks.

Jeez, aren't we all a little better than that?
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. No, they're not
The mention of Kerry's name brings out all sorts of posters of dubious intent.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. It just blows me away. I am an Astros fan. They were swept in the
World Series by the White Sox.

I am still a fan of the Houston Astros.

I swear, if I was going into combat with these people on my team, I would shoot about a quarter of them before the shit hit the fan.

Maybe that is why I survived three tours.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. that might be un-Friendly fire Tom. lol
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Hey!
Edited on Thu Jun-08-06 10:05 PM by WildEyedLiberal
This Cardinals fan TOTALLY sympathizes with the pain of being swept in the World Series! :D

Agree totally with your point, btw.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. I don't think anyone going to combat has to worry about
going with most of these people. If you know what I mean.

Until the draft is re-instated, that is.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. They would probably be 4-F anyway.
Oh, well.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. True.
Heh. That reminds me, I heard "Alice's Restaurant" on Launchcast at work today. Had to put the headphones on so I could really enjoy it.
:)
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. thanks Tom and ALL others who voted this up...
Edited on Thu Jun-08-06 09:32 PM by Jeffersons Ghost
I guess we'll have people attacking Kerry until November. All this debate over Kerry, when the real issue is supporting worthy Democrats that will be in VERY close races, which the Republican Party intends to buy, brings to mind some wise words by Ben Franklin.

It was during The First Continental Congress and debate over state's rights was raging on the floor. All those in the debate had signed the Declaration of Independence as surely as we sign on each time we log into DU. Only then, the Crown had a price on their heads.

Ben Franklin said, "We can hang together or hang separately."

Martin Niemöller said:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. kicked and nominated For Benjamin Franklin!!!!
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #18
59. We are.
We might have instigators among us. The lower the Repug polls go, the more heated the attacks here against Kerry. Maybe the wingers are getting nervous.

It makes me very uncomfortable when the EXACT things are said here as on the freeper boards. If these things are indeed being said by Dems: shame, shame.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kicked so All DUers Donate to Democrats!
Thank you, Jefferson's Ghost. Rec'd Kerry's email on this earlier. And I can't get over all the negative postings here, especially lately.

United we Stand, Divided We're Going to Keep on Falling.

Less some are trolling disruptor's. Times are strange... :hi:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #31
51. that's okay AuntiBush a few idiots won't stop us. check out a troll pic...
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
40. I'm sorry...
....but I had trouble reading beyond his charge of somebody having "posh" headquarters. He's the last guy who should be calling attention to "poshness" of any kind.

I can appreciate his newly developed fighting spirt, but it's too late for my taste.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. maybe it's not too late to save your butt...
people seem to think this 'ole US isn't really heaaded for Third Reichville in a hand-basket but for a history buff like me the writing is on the wall.
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-08-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I know when I'm being pandered to.
And that has nothing to do with my butt needing to be saved.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. hey maybe he can save your head at the same time since it's right up it
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. Very clever.
Really, you got me there.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. and you also got me. YOU GOT ME SOME FIRE ON THIS OP AS IT HITS 50
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Well, good. I hope it means more fighting money
I didn't really mean to rain on the parade, I just got irked by the letter, and felt compelled to oust the evil spirits.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #50
100. there's the right approach finally cigsandcoffee. who did you give $ to?
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. I'm glad I lived up to your expectations.
lol

Another life's dream fulfilled.


I think you take yourself a little too seriously, my friend.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. well, in truth i never imagined you'd give a dime to a dem cause, nor...
do I take myself seriously enough to think my humble OP would convince you to donate. How about the hellish war in Iraq? Can I convince you to change your mind on it and call your senator to ask him to support the Kerry Resolution to end the war? Naaa, you probably love the endless murder-fest in Iraq.
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
94. LOL
:thumbsup: :yourock:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. then why did you come on to trash the man. this post isnt even about
kerry.... it is another democrat that is running. if you dont like kerry who cares. but that isnt what this post is about
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Because I felt manipulated by his letter
Manipulated and pandered to, as if he's trying to be something he isn't. The "posh" thing particularly bothered me.

So I said so. That's what one does on a chat board.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #47
52. do you often put yourself in victim role, or is it kerry that
draws this reaction from you?
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I would have to succumb to the pandering and manipulation
...before I can feel victimized.

Be honest.. does Kerry's use of the word "posh" not even irk you a little bit? Does it seem genuine? Hell, and aid probably wrote this, anyway. It's too upbeat for the man.

I'll go away from the Kerry/not-about-Kerry thread now, and apologize for the negative diversion. Carry on.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. so really you are just a kerry basher...
as you go thru bashing.
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. If you need to label me that, then fine
I'm a Kerry basher. My life's dream fulfilled.

I took issue with Kerry's letter ^^up there^^ for reasons I stated pretty clearly. It's true that I was already no fan of the man, but that doesn't really lower the validity of my complaint - or at the very minimum, it doesn't refute my point.

The posh thing didn't give you pause? Honestly? I ask again because you haven't said.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #55
79. live by the bash, die by the bash, cigs&coffee and...
those that bash last bash best. Karma is a funny thing sometimes.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #53
91. I don't think you really have any idea what Kerry's like
So don't pretend to analyze his personality and what would be "too upbeat" from him. It's obvious from ten miles away that you know nothing about the man.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #40
56. More RW talking points and trolling bullshit
Kerry threads really do bring the roaches out of the woodwork, don't they?
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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Fine, fine
Go on and love the guy. See if I care. I'll try to avoid the Kerry threads if my honest opinions about him piss you off so much that I must be seen as some kind of neocon interloper.
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #57
61. I don't know you so I don't know what your motives are, but here is
something you might want to consider.

The GOP Web site currently has an ad that says, "232 GOP House Members, 15 GOP Senators, 21 GOP Governors and thousands of local GOP officials could all be lost in 2006 without your support."

So Senator Kerry sends out a fundraising letter for Democrats and you nit pick because you don't like his choice of wording. Can you see why that might raise a flag and make people question your motives? In other words: are you with them or are you with us?

Think about it.




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cigsandcoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Right...
So I'm either with you or I'm "with the terrorists." Now where have I heard that before? Think about it.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
92. Maybe because you're trashing someone who is fighting the RW?
Edited on Fri Jun-09-06 12:52 PM by WildEyedLiberal
YOU think about it. It's not too hard.
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
105. Terrorists? That's a very strange thing to bring into this. RW buzz word.
I'd been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but bringing terrorism into this is just plain silly.

The point I was making is that this is about Democrats v. Republicans. If you start criticizing the language a Democrat uses to fund raise, it is counterproductive at best and it is going to make some people think you side with BushCo. (I am NOT saying that you are: just explaining why people react the way they do. We are in defense mode here.) They (GOP) use dirty tricks and infiltration certainly isn't beneath them.

We are in a tightening-ranks mode here. RW viewpoints are not taken kindly, so yes, it IS an "us or them" situation now. I'm sorry, but liberal doesn't mean bending over for the republicans. We've been too generous and have met them more than halfway for far too long.

We need to close ranks if we are going to beat the Republicans in November, and moving forward past November we have to remain vigilant.

None of this meeting across the aisle crap. We win or we lose. Simple as that.

It's a shame that it has to be this way, but we've learned the hard way that compromise can only be achieved among reasonable parties. Because they have not been reasonable, there is no way TO compromise with the RW.

If you feel that is adopting their mentality, I'm sorry. Being liberal doesn't mean we should bend over for them time and time again. That's why Joe Lieberman generates such rancor here. Dems are tired of capitulating. Personally, I feel sorry for Lieberman because he still believes you can compromise with the RW. He's an honorable man, but he's totally wrong.

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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #40
60. I LOVED the line about POSH headquarters. It made me think about
something. The repugs worship money and power. Yet they have the audacity to call us the liberal elite. They are all rich, white men who want to keep power in the hands of men just like themselves. These elitists will toss crumbs to minorities and women, as long as they are obedient and don't get too uppity.

The posh headquarters was a tip off. I wanted to know more. I've been investigating things on the Web since the e-mail and I'm learning what a bunch of snobs the Repug power brokers really are. I mean, I know it...but this inspired me to do a little more research.

Let me tell you, posh doesn't even scratch the surface. These guys are all gold-plated ASSHOLES.

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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #40
70. no you are not
I've seen your many bullshit posts.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. I was wondering how long it would take my friend stepnw1f the troll slayer
to jump in here. Futile hunting grounds, aren't they wolf?
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Yes... But I Need to Back Off of These Threads
because I may get say things that are against the rules that protect Trolls.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. LOL, I know the feeling! Some days DU is like fighting them in the trench
I used to talk real straight, rarely pulling punches and resorting to innuendo but DU trolls changed all that I've learned at least 10 ways to imply someone is trolling without breaking any rules. Just phrase it as a question and don't use the words "troll" or "freeper." For example ask them; "how many Democratic threads do you kill a week with comments, like the one you just made," or "Do the goose-stepping boots you wear at DU, also come in pink?"
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. lol....
I am more suttle most of the time.

"Do the goose-stepping boots you wear at DU, also come in pink?"

I'll have to use that.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. that one REALLY PISSES THEM OFF, just check any of my OPs...
and you'll see how much they hate me for all the creative ways I help them see the light. Newbys have even told me they talk behind my back implying I'm a troll! How funny is that?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #40
71. Kerry should point out the "posh" HQ of the corrupt moral majority! n/t
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
63. Very good
I'm especially impressed that Kerry is supporting Jim Webb. Wonderful what real grownups can do. :)
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #63
64. I would appreciate it if you'd honor us with more info on Jim Web, WesDem
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Maybe later, JG
I'm on my way out the door. Another Webb supporter might step up meanwhile.

Thanks for the OP :hi:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. thanks for keeping it alive while I was asleep wesDem
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #66
89. I'd be glad to step in for you JG...
Here's a link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/07/AR2006060702118.html

My take, he's a very unconventional Democrat, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. If, hopefully, he becomes my U.S. Senator I anticipate that I won't always 100% agree with every stance that he takes. I suspect he may even side with the Repubs on a few issues, but the point is, he has the ability to beat Allen, which Harris, in my opinion does not. I'd take 1,000 Webbs over one asshat Allen. (By the way, I'm not happy about everything that Harris has said and done either).
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. IF I LIVED IN VA. I'D BE WORKING MY ASS OFF FOR HIM. read this...
Even though my funds are limited, I'm giving $25. to him as well. He even looks Irish and my great granny came over on the boat!

James Webb estimates that he has published more than 2 million words in his prolific life as a journalist, essayist and author, but there are two that he wrote that may best describe the man himself: Born fighting.

James Webb estimates that he has published more than 2 million words in his prolific life as a journalist, essayist and author, but there are two that he wrote that may best describe the man himself: Born fighting. Not fighting for you , as politicians always like to describe themselves. Just plain fighting.

"Born Fighting" is the title that Webb gave his somewhat romantic history of his fellow Scots-Irish and how they have fought in the United States' wars and defined its populist form of democracy. It is the slogan he has appropriated -- to the chagrin of some Democrats who don't think it sets the right tone -- for his unorthodox Democratic primary campaign for the U.S. Senate from Virginia.

He is asking primary voters on Tuesday to overlook his Republican past and some policy positions that put him at odds with the catechism of his new party. He presents himself not as the man who best represents the Virginia Democratic Party but as the man most likely to change it.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. I will be, don't worry about that....n/t
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #63
113. i don't like it at all
he should have waited until after the primary. i can understand why he did, but i just don't agree.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #113
120. you must realize, we're not like the Republicans who get giant donations..
from big business. It takes a lot longer to raise funds $25. at a time.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
65. John if Al runs I have to say...
mmmm. would you like a cabinet position?
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
74. On to Victory?
Gimme a fucking break. Why didn't you dig a trench on Nov 3, 2004. Barracade you and yours. Set up som e machine gun nests. Line up some claymores. String some razor wire and FIGHT THE FIGHT AGAINST THESE FASCISTS WHEN THE TIME WAS RIGHT.

WE HAVE WE BEEN SUBJECTED TO YEARS OF ADDITIONAL TORTURE AND EXPLOITATION BY THESE CRIMINALS BECAUSE YOU REFUSED TO FIGHT!!!!

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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. Yawn
Papa RUSH? I think you took a wrong turn on the internets somewhere.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. I saw a hero. He looked like a hero. He talked like a hero. I do not
think his reaction to the stolen election was appropriate. I remain disappointed to this day.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. Do you really think he ignored ironclad evidence?
That is beyond ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous. You can be suspicious of the election all you want - I am - but the FACT remains that there is NO certain proof that Kerry actually won. There is NOTHING concrete you can take to a court to prove it. Mark Crispin Miller and RFK Jr. don't present any ABSOLUTE IRREFUTABLE PROOF that the election was won by Kerry. There is no court in America right now that would reverse the results of the Ohio count (or any other state's). Not one. What, exactly, is Kerry to do?

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence of monkey business but nothing, absolutely nothing, that adds up to certain, ironclad, court-admissable proof that Kerry really won. Therefore - there's NOTHING that can be done about 2004. Do you really think Kerry didn't want to be president? That he put himself through hell and back for fun?

When you can provide to me actual, real concrete actions he could take in a court of law that would actually get somewhere, do let me know. Please bear in mind that courts require much more rigorous evidence than liberal online discussion boards, so "there were machine malfunctions = Kerry won" just won't cut it in a court of logic, much less a court of law. And voter suppression - well, you can't count votes that weren't cast, nor can you legally extrapolate how many would have been cast without suppression and which candidate for which they would have been cast. You just CAN'T.

All we can do is work to elect Democrats and Dem Secretaries of State and the Democratic party infrastructure needs to make voting integrity its biggest issue. Quite frankly, it's not Kerry's single-handed responsibility to ensure this, and it wasn't in 2004. Terry McAuliffe and the DNC dropped the ball, and if Dean doesn't address this issue, then he will, too, and his "50 state strategy" will mean nothing.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #87
96. Kerry should have followed the example Gore set in 2000
If Kerry planned to cave, he and Edwards never should have claimed that "Every Vote will count and Every Vote will be counted".

They layed a groundwork of expectation and did not follow through.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. What a pathetic non-reply
Comparing Kerry's situation, which was a matter of over 100,000 votes across a whole state which weren't immediately in question, and Gore's situation, which involved 400 VERY questionable ballots in 3 counties, is like comparing apples and oranges.

YOU CAN'T COUNT VOTES THAT WEREN'T CAST. Silly me, I thought you actually wanted a real dialogue about this issue. Obviously, you're just here to troll and disrupt, and you are patently not interested in the facts.

Go on. Explain to me how a Supreme Court challenge would have resulted in Kerry winning. Explain it step by step and be sure to include all that surefire evidence you think you have.

I'll save you some time - you can't, because you, like all the other trolls on DU, are talking out of your ass. My first suspicions about you were correct.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Maybe Gore should have followed Kerry's example
and kept at it for more than a year!

August 31, 2005

Kerry and Edwards to Stay in Recount Case!!! Trial to Start in August 2006

Don McTigue, attorney for John Kerry and John Edwards, appeared in federal court in Toledo, before Judge Carr, on August 30th, and told the Court that Kerry and Edwards intend to remain in the case.

Judge Carr set an August 22, 2006 trial date.

Additionally he consolidated the two recount cases, Rios v. Blackwell and Yost v. Cobb & Badnarik. He gave the plaintiffs until September 15th to file amended pleadings (plaintiff's counsel had requested an opportunity to streamline their claims).

Judge Carr set a discovery cut-off of May 1, 2006, and ruled that any summary judgment motions must be made by May 15, 2006.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2005/08/kerry-and-edwards-to-stay-in-recount.html



This looks like the case that was dismissed earlier this year!

February 10, 2006

Associated Press Reports: Ohio Recount Suit Dismissed
According to the Associated Press, the Ohio recount suit has been dismissed:

Judge Dismisses Penultimate Ohio Lawsuit
By JOHN McCARTHY, Associated Press Writer
Thu Feb 9, 10:42 PM ET

COLUMBUS, Ohio - A federal judge has thrown out a lawsuit over Ohio's recount of the 2004 presidential election, leaving only one court challenge remaining from the state's role in the re-election of President Bush.

U.S. District Judge James Carr in Toledo threw out the suit filed by a voting rights group on behalf of the Green Party and Libertarian candidates. Tuesday's dismissal, barring an appeal, leaves active only a suit filed by the League of Women Voters of Ohio.

http://fairnessbybeckerman.blogspot.com/2006/02/associated-press-reports-ohio-recount.html




More:

http://www.stephaniemiller.com/bits/2006_0517_kerry.mp3

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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #101
103. ProSense your previous post contains excellent info that is new to me...
Edited on Fri Jun-09-06 04:38 PM by Jeffersons Ghost
thanks
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #87
97. Kerry Admits he 'screwed up'
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Bullshit hearsay from another poster with an agenda
Color me unsurprised. And they say freepers aren't bright enough to mount a coordinated effort... :eyes:
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #99
104. you forgot to say that FIRE-ANTS can also mount a coordinated effort...
and ants might be a higher life form.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #99
109. Find your boy on this list...he's not at the top..
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. I don't give two shits and a fuck about a worthless straw poll.
Edited on Fri Jun-09-06 10:56 PM by WildEyedLiberal
Disrupt somewhere else with your shallow bullshit that means nothing.

BTW, how about some fucking response to all the FACTS posted to you in this thread instead of more inanity? Can you fucking handle a real debate, or can you just manage to disrupt like a troll?

Don't even bother replying because I know the answer.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #109
112. Who cares? DUers dont live in the real world.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #109
114. HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #114
117. why are you down here laughing like a hyena?
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #87
118. Aren't you going a little overboard about "no evidence"?
Edited on Sat Jun-10-06 09:44 AM by HamdenRice
After all, a Republican has already been convicted and served time in New Hampshire for the phone jamming scandal.

A court would not overturn the 2004 election because there is no legal basis for it, but plenty of federal courts would convict Ohio officials of violations of the Voting Rights Act or of violating certain injunctions that were issued before the 2004 election.

That the 2004 election was stolen is no longer a "conspiracy theory," it's now a "conspiracy theorem" -- ie a theory that has been proven.

BTW, what still disappoints many people about Kerry in 2004 compared to Gore in 2000 is this basic time line:

Election Day 2000: November 7, 2000
Gore Concession: December 13, 2000

Election Day 2004: November 2, 2004
Kerry Concession: November 3, 2004

Nevertheless, I support Sen. Kerry's call to support Democrats in these elections and I salute Kerry's work in the Senate and in the general election campaign. I just hope he never runs for national office again, ever.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #118
119. The difference is
The official reports indicated that Gore won the popular vote and was a few hundred votes away from winning the electoral vote. In Kerry's case, the reports indicated that he won neither, and that he was behind more than 135,000 votes in Ohio.

As RFK stated in his article:

By midnight, the official tallies showed a decisive lead for George Bush -- and the next day, lacking enough legal evidence to contest the results, Kerry conceded.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen/1



Not everyone thinks it a "conspiracy theorem." A year and a half later, there is still no legal evidence to conclude that the election was in fact stolen. When should Kerry have conceded? The election was certified in Congress because there was no legal evidence that it was stolen. Even a challenge from the Democrats would have been symbolic, since they are in the minority.

As Conyers' stated in his report the investigations were/are not going to happen unless the Republicans initiate them in the current Congress:

Whether the cumulative effect of these legal violations would have altered the actual outcome is not known at this time. However, we do know that there are many serious and intentional violations which violate Ohio’s own law, that the Secretary of State has done everything in his power to avoid accounting for such violations, and it is incumbent on Congress to protect the integrity of its own laws by recognizing the seriousness of these legal violations.

B. Need for Further Congressional Hearings

It is also clear the U.S. Congress needs to conduct additional and more vigorous hearings into the irregularities in the Ohio presidential election and around the country.


While we have conducted our own Democratic hearings and investigation, we have been handicapped by the fact that key participants in the election, such as Secretary of State Blackwell, have refused to cooperate in our hearings or respond to Mr. Conyers questions. While GAO officials are prepared to move forward with a wide ranging analysis of systemic problems in the 2004 elections, they are not planning to conduct the kind of specific investigation needed to get to the bottom of the range of problems evident in Ohio. As a result, it appears that the only means of obtaining his cooperation in any congressional investigation is under the threat of subpoena, which only the Majority may require.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/issues/issues/election.html



Why don't you want Kerry to run? If he runs, the other potential nominees will have to run, the same as Kerry, to earn the nomination. In not wanting him to run, do you believe he has the potential to get the nomination, but should step aside so the person who would be second in that scenario is nominated?





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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-10-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #118
121. No, I am not going overboard.
Edited on Sat Jun-10-06 11:08 AM by WildEyedLiberal
Read my post again. I never said there was "no evidence" of any irregularities. I said there was no evidence that KERRY WON, and you actually do a decent job of making my point all over again for me: "A court would not overturn the 2004 election because there is no legal basis for it." That is precisely my point.

Your "timeline" is bogus because Gore was dealing with a matter of a couple hundred dubiously hand-counted ballots in three counties and Kerry was down by over 100,000 votes. Do DUers really and truly not see the difference between 400 and 100,000 and how that changes things? Do you really not see the difference?

Nixon lost 1960 by MUCH fewer votes than Kerry "officially" lost 2004 - 5,000 compared to 100,000 - but he conceded THAT NIGHT, and Republicans didn't proceed to call him a "pussy" and Christ knows what else for years afterwards even though there was DEFINITELY some shady business going on in Illinois and Texas on the part of the Kennedy campaign. Kerry was down by over 100,000 votes and STILL had the second longest concession in modern history - the longest, actually, if you consider the fact that Gore DID concede but then rescinded once it became clear that a handcount might flip the election results. A 100,000 vote difference isn't enough to stall on concending and call for a hand-count.

This is really just a matter of people picking an easy and convenient target to blame for their 2004 disapointment regardless of facts or logic. Why don't you read ProSense's post showing that the Kerry campaign lawyer is STILL involved in Ohio lawsuits? Was Gore still fighting against the machine to uncover what really happened, to get ironclad evidence of theft, more than a year later? No, he was in Europe growing a beard. I'm tired of people throwing ill-educated accusations about John Kerry's conduct on November 2nd with zero regard to the truth or the facts.

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #84
111. So remain disappointed. Dont troll a thread where people try to get
Democrats elected? I guess you are part of those who dont want dems elected.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #111
115. Transparent, aren't they. n/t
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
75. Some people are really weird. Because they disagree with something
somebody did two years ago, they think he should stop fighting forever.

Applying this logic, there is NOBODY I want to fight for me because there is NOBODY I am not been PO one day or the other. Some of our best defenders in the Senate (Kerry, Feingold, Kennedy, Boxer) are people I have been mad as hell at least a couple of times in my life.

But, if that suits them to stay in Republican Hell, who am I to say they are wrong. But I will continue to take help from anybody who is ready to fight this fight. Too bad if they dont like that.
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-09-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. "take help from anybody who is ready to fight" I'M NOT READY TO MAKE NICE
Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I’m not sure I could
They say time heals everything
But I’m still waiting

I’m through with doubt
There’s nothing left for me to figure out
I’ve paid a price
And I’ll keep paying

I’m not ready to make nice
I’m not ready to back down
I’m still mad as hell and
I don’t have time to go round and round and round
It’s too late to make it right
I probably wouldn’t if I could
‘Cause I’m mad as hell
Can’t bring myself to do what it is you think I should

I know you said
Can’t you just get over it
It turned my whole world around
And I kind of like it

I made my bed and I sleep like a baby
With no regrets and I don’t mind sayin’
It’s a sad sad story when a mother will teach her
Daughter that she ought to hate a perfect stranger
And how in the world can the words that I said
Send somebody so over the edge
That they’d write me a letter
Sayin’ that I better shut up and sing
Or my life will be over

I’m not ready to make nice
I’m not ready to back down
I’m still mad as hell and
I don’t have time to go round and round and round
It’s too late to make it right
I probably wouldn’t if I could
‘Cause I’m mad as hell
Can’t bring myself to do what it is you think I should

I’m not ready to make nice
I’m not ready to back down
I’m still mad as hell and
I don’t have time to go round and round and round
It’s too late to make it right
I probably wouldn’t if I could
‘Cause I’m mad as hell
Can’t bring myself to do what it is you think I should

Forgive, sounds good
Forget, I’m not sure I could
They say time heals everything
But I’m still waiting
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