Do you fall into this trap?

[Yollam]

Do you ever fall into the trap of referring to the Estate Tax as "the death tax", or calling private school vouchers "school choice", or maybe calling regressive taxation a "flat tax", or even a "fair tax"?


Don't do it. You're using the GOP's deceptive code words to promote their agenda.



There is no tax on dying. There is a small tax on estates worth over $4 million. Call it the "millionaire heir tax"

Vouchers do NOT pay for people's private school tuition. They amount to a discount coupon for people who already can afford private school, and they defund the public schools. Call it "Reverse Robin Hood Vouchers":.


The flat tax is flat, but incomes are anything but. Working people use most of their income on living expenses, much of which are taxable. The rich already put much of their income into tax-shielded investments. Call it what it is, a tax hike on the middle class and a tax cut for the rich.

[Warren DeMontague]

1. Leaving aside the estate/death tax for a moment... A simple point:

Fact is, MOST of our tax dollars are going to absolutely horrendous things right now. Horribly bloated Military Industrial Complex. $40 Billion dollars a year for an idiotic "drug war" - and that's NOT counting the costs of our being the highest per capita incarcerator of non-violent offenders in the First World. Money for bullshit lie-based wars where freaked out kids in uniform bust into people's houses and shoot babies.

I'm not rich. Hardly. And hey, maybe the "heir tax", as you put it, is a good thing (although I hate to break it to you - if you live somewhere like California, it's pretty easy for people to hit that "millionaire heir" tax mark just by owning a HOME. I think it's debatable as to whether kids should be forced to sell their house to pay off the tax on overvalued real estate) ... but just once - Just ONCE - I'd love it if we could combine one of these threads with an acknowledgement that MOST of these tax dollars are being blown on shit that is at best totally wasteful, and at worst majorly fucking detrimental to society and the planet at large.

If we were seriously talking about a Single Payer Health Care system (although you could pay for a lot of it by de-funding the drug war and legalizing & taxing marijuana, couldn't you?) then-- you know what, fuck yes, let's soak the rich to pay for it. Prop 82, here in California- Universal Preschool? Great idea.

But honestly, it's hard for me to see how much cash has been pissed away in Iraq and go "Shit, the Federal government needs more money".

[Salviati]

2. Actually, the tax falls on estates over 4 million now...

[Yollam]

4. Thanks. Guess I'm behind the times.

Then it's even more dishonest than ever to call it a "death tax".

[Virginian]

6. I don't think most people realize that.

I would call it the Paris Hilton tax. It is the ONLY way she could ever contribute to society. She has no income tax on her trust fund.

[Dr.Phool]

10. I've been refering to it as "The Paris Hilton Relief Act".

[StellaBlue]

3. exemptions:

2005 $1.5 million
2006 $2 million
2007 $2 million
2008 $2 million
2009 $3.5 million
2010 Estate tax repealed


This is per individual. So double the amount for spouses. You can also get creative with trusts to avoid the estate tax.

[aikoaiko]

5. I sympathize ---

I mean if I worked hard all my life and amassed some wealth for my kids,I'd like to see it all go to my family. No one in my family has/will ever collected that much wealth.

I know it doesn't all get taxed and their are ways to shield some of it, but still, I sympathize.

[Yollam]

8. But wait a minute...

First of all, isn't it always the repugs who are so big on individual responsibility and self-made men and pulling up of bootstraps, etc.? So why are the so incensed that there is a miniscule tax on estates over $4 million dollars? (Do you have an estate worth that much? If so, I'm impressed.) Are they that insecure that their pudgy, pale kids can't work for a living and make their OWN damn fortunes? And they are constantly telling us how this is America and ANYONE can make it and the only reason people are poor is because they are LAZY. The estate tax at least helps level the playing field ever so slightly. As far as I'm concerned, there should be a 100% tax on estates on anything over say $10 million. Let the Hilton sisters get jobs if they can't build something out of a nest egg like that.

[aikoaiko]

11. My heart does not bleed for the super rich -- but I still sympathize

Everything you said about the right wing and responsibility/selfmade stuff is correct. I think the anger comes from the money already having been taxed already (as income of the person already dead) and then taxed again when tranferred to family. The estate tax is very high: 45 - 46%.

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=112782,00.html

Again, it is far from my biggest concern, but I do sympathize.

[Yollam]

12. My money is taxed when I earn it, then again when I pay a store.

Inheritance is money changing hands, no different than any other transaction. The inheritance tax is one of the most just, progressive taxes there is, IMO.

[Virginian]

13. If I were to win the lottery, it would be taxed.

The heirs have had all the advantages of the money all their lives. They have been sent to the best schools, they have the best job connections and at today's exemption rates, they can inherit, tax-free -- more than any of us will ever see in our lifetimes.

Once the money is theirs, it will probably go into investments. With the repeal of the capital gains tax, those investments will never be taxed. At this level of wealth, work is an option not a necessity. They can go through life without ever being productive members of society.


On the other hand, the average working man will have to earn the money to live on. If he goes to college, chances are, he will have student loans to pay for several years. He will be taxed on the money he earns from working. If he should be so lucky as to win a lottery, it will be heavily taxed. He must work to live and if he is ever unemployed, he cannot just call a family friend to give him a job.

So we tax the working man and let the wealthy slide by without contributing anything. This is a free country -- for the wealthy, but a very expensive country for the working class.

[aikoaiko]

14. I think inheritance is a slightly different animal than lottery winnings

But I recognize the validity in your argument as well. The money is changing hands from one person to another (or others). Again, all I said was I sympathize with their complaint. I didn't say do away with the estate tax.

Geesh, when did sympathy become a dirty word on DU.

I don't know what your situation is, but I do know mine. I am the sole provider for my wife and family and I constantly think about how to provide for them. I will likely be able to amass a little bit of wealth during my lifetime, but it probably won't be taxed when I die because it won't be enough money. But I could see why people in a higher wealth bracket would be miffed.

The OP called it a minuscule tax, but 45% is a huge tax.

[Virginian]

15. Yes 45% is a lot to pay.

Another poster suggested that it be changed to have levels of tax, starting out at a lower percentage. That could be fair.

When my brother and I inherited our Mother's home, and effects, we didn't have to worry about the tax. That was ten years ago, before they raised the threshold.

My Husband and I don't have heirs. I really don't care if what we amass is taxed at the time of our death. No one else has earned it, it would be a windfall for them. Based on the inflated value of our middle class home because of where we live, it would depend on the threshold as to whether our material items would be taxed. We are a working class couple.

Unless there are cost of living adjustments, this is one tax that would hit the high cost of living areas the hardest. A quarter acre lot in Northern Virginia costs a lot more than a quarter acre lot in Statesboro, Georgia.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. Remember that tax is only on assets OVER the threshold.

It's not 45% on the value of your entire estate. Also remember that much of the wealth accumulated was the result of tax shelters during life to mitigate income tax, and that the truly wealthy use many vehicles to avoid estate taxes so that what's left is the small portion of the fortune that can't be sheltered. It's hard to see clear a reason why they should continue to avoid taxes on their estate too.

For the moderately successful business or investor, the answer is to raise the exempt limit, not do away with the estate tax. The realty is with the current indexing of the exemption very few estates get hit in any sizeable way. The classic story that makes the rounds is repeated in the current Kuttner article at the American Prospect on line. When Senator Max Baucus (D-Montana) tried to frame his support as protecting family farmers, whose inherited homesteads are supposedly threatened by estate taxes,the American Farm Bureau Federation could not identify a single farm that had to be sold to pay taxes, even under current rates.

[StellaBlue]

7. I am actually torn 50/50 on this one

On one hand, the money/assets we're talking about have already been taxed repeatedly by the time Mom & Dad Moneybags die. Why should the government get MORE money those people managed to amass? So they can bomb more innocent civilians?

On the other hand, Johnny and Susie Moneybags didn't do shit to earn the money, so they don't deserve it, either. I am against inheritage on principle. It's totally unegalitarian.

:shrug:

[Yollam]

9. Money being taxed XXX times is a RW talking point.

Of course money is taxed numerous times as it circulates. I don't know why RWers find this to be such a huge revelation. Funny how when they bitch and moan, they never think about the fact that that tax money often comes right back to them in the form of money spent on highway projects, or money spent by sailors on leave, or whatever. It's not like the government takes tax money and freaking vaporizes it. They put it to use and it has a stimulative effect - EVEN MONEY SPENT ON "WELFARE QUEENS".