WSJ: Apple Launches Low-End PC

[Merlin]

The link requires a subscription. If anyone wants some specific info, from this article, just ask and I'll look it up. The powers that be are coming at M$ from all sides these days!
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB110545997273622829,00.html

Apple Launches Low-End PC

And $99 Digital Music Player

A WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE NEWS ROUNDUP
January 11, 2005 3:30 p.m.

Apple Computer Inc. unveiled a stripped-down Mac priced below $500 and a $99 digital music player, as the niche computer maker moves to profit from the success of its iPod portable music player. Apple unveiled two versions of the "Mac Mini" at its MacWorld trade show in San Francisco. These small machines, which are sold without monitor, keyboard or mouse, weigh less than three pounds are just two inches tall. They will cost $499 and $599 and are expected to hit the market Jan. 22.
...
The product announcements confirmed rumors that have flooded independent Apple Web sites for several weeks that the company, known for its more expensive iMac machines, was planning to launch a low-priced PC and digital music player.

Although Apple's share of the personal computer market remains tiny compared with industry giants like Dell Inc. and Hewlett-Packard Co., the popularity of the iPod has prompted speculation the company could see a resurgence in sales of its machines, particularly if priced competitively.
...

[Richardo]

1. Does this one come with a keyboard?

That's the stupidest marketing concept ever - keyboard extra.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. I can totally agree with that...a keyboard adds like 2 dollars..

...to the cost of the PC.

[benburch]

14. And the box to hold it?

Remember this entire machine come packaged in a box smaller than the one the iPod comes in!

That makes storage, shipping, and shelf space much cheaper!

How much more would Apple have to charge if there were a cheap keyboard in the box?

[alfredo]

32. I have several keyboards,

and two extra mice.

[jdj]

83. same here, a cordless mouse, a regular one,

one of those pen thingies that acts like a mouse, and a mac keyboard and an pc keyboard (don't know if they are interchangeable, are they?)

[alfredo]

87. If it's USB there shouldn't be much problem. The only non

Mac Keyboard I have is a Logitech PS2 keyboard. It's like a laptop keyboard, and has a nice long cord for relaxed writing.

[NuttyFluffers]

172. just get a ps2>usb convertor.

then all your keyboards can work on just about every modern machine, pc,mac, whatever. they are generally cheap too.

good rule of thumb when the average consumer is confused, "when in doubt convert to usb." once it's all usb, then everything works together.

:D that's why it's called the universal serial bus :D

[candice]

34. On the other hand

I own several keyboards (prefer ergonomic ones) and already have a wireless keyboard and mouse. I think it is smart to let people select their own keyboards and mice. I have an ample supply of both.

Go Apple! (public discloser--I own a small amount of Apple shares and have been a Mac bigot since I got my first Macintosh in the late 80s). I now own one of the most elegant machines I've ever encountered--the PowerBook G4. It's such a drag when I have to fire up my PC.

OS X is amazing, and I love the iLife software.

Al Gore is on the board of directors, and Jobs supported Kerry. Gates is a big Bush supporter. Makes sense. Did you see the photo of Kerry in his office with the 17-inch PowerBook G4?

[politicat]

182. That wasn't a 17, it was a 15, titanium PB.

Probably an 867 or a 1 Ghz.

I look at the back of one every day over breakfast, while Mr. Pcat reads slashdot and comics and I read salon and LBN. I know the back of that computer like I know my own hands.

(Hey, who needs a newspaper?)

Pcat

[slutticus]

62. Not to the shipping cost though.

The thing seems to be smaller than a keyboard from the description.

I have 3 keyboards laying around and a few mice as well. I don't think it's such a bad idea.

[benburch]

6. No, a great idea!

They are counting on you to already have a keyboard and a monitor and a mouse, or to be able to get those things locally cheaper than Apple could sell them to you.

If you have a Windows machine for example, you just move the plugs over, or get a cheap switch box.

I have an old Compaq monitor that just won't fail, and I've plugged it into Linux boxes. I'm sure others have kept their monitors and ditched their computers too.

[NashVegas]

30. Linux

Lotta Linux users are accustomed to running multiple OSes and booting into whichever. This will be great for Linux users who want a Mac without all the rest of the gear. Business apps included.

[benburch]

68. And I'm betting this will run Yellow Dog Linux, too.

Or will after it has been available for a few weeks.

I used to run Yellow Dog on a 7100 with good results, and I booted the Mac OS under MOL so I could have both active at once.

Hmmm.... I have a Performa 6320 here that I am doing nothing with. I feel a late night project coming on.

[fob]

7. Agreed. Why not just make it with no ports or openings at all?

I bet they can get the price down to $99 if they just send you a circuit board, a 6 inch pieceof 2x4 and IKEA like instructions on how to put it together.

[Demit]

10. because Windoze already has that market.

Cheap initial cost, endless plug-and-pray. Macs work right out of the box.

[fob]

29. Don't get me wrong, we use Apple at home, I'm just talking about

the marketing strategy of "we made it to under $500, but to REALLY use it you gotta have this, and that, and one of those and don't forget the thing".

[progressiveBadger]

49. I agree

This is just another rendition of the Cube, only a little smaller. After you add a monitor, you might as well have bought one of the new G5 iMacs. they look cooler, it's a better processor, and it's more upgradeable.

[mrbassman03]

89. Ummmm, what $700 monitor are you buying?

This is meant for those folks tired of their shitty PC who want zero hassle in switching.

[NuttyFluffers]

173. i know of no one who is brand spanking new to the computers market.

and i know of no one who has not had several computers in their lives and were not left with plenty of keyboards and mice all over the place.

one of the huge complaints i heard about macs before was too many of the cheaper ones came with a built-in monitor -- that took up desk space and people already had generic leftover monitors.

if someone is sooooo brand spanking new to the computers market then maybe the'd be better served by the imacs or emacs out there, hmmm? and if they are soooo brand spanking new, and they are trying to scrape the bargain basement for their very first machine, and lack of kb/m included is an overwhelming negative in their decision making, they are just asking to be taken over a barrel.

obviously this product is not for the c0mpl3t3 n00b. or perhaps the complete obvious isn't so obvious, hmmm?

[jmowreader]

88. No one likes the Apple keyboards and mice anyway*

Since you were probably going to throw the damn thing in the trash, why not leave it out of the box?

* I use Apple keyboards and mice.

[htuttle]

2. They look like good 'switcher' machines

If you already have a PC, you can just reuse your existing monitor and keyboard.

Otherwise, I'm still suggesting to those who ask me that they go for an iMac G5 for the sheer speed.

[johncoby2]

8. OOOOOH!!!! Now that is a good idea!

I was hoping for a complete package, but I am an imac user (old one) and dont have a monitor to use. If I was a pc user, this would be a very interesting idea.

If you add a keyboard $50, cheap flat screen, $250, and mouse $25, you are up to $825. An imac is $1300.00.

Hum......

[eleonora]

167. yes but the Mac mini is a cd-rom drive only

no combo drive or superdrive like the iMac

[mrbassman03]

169. Ummmm.. Noooooo....

It comes standard with a DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive, and is easily upgraded to a Superdrive. So there.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html

[eleonora]

170. ok

I stand corrected

[mrbassman03]

180. Oh, I'm a jerk late at night!!!

Wow, looking back on my late night posts, I am not very nice... sorry about that!

[eleonora]

181. well, as long as you realized it!

:spank:....:smoke:

[ramapo]

4. Good for them

Maybe now Microsoft and their crappy products will feel some competitive heat. The Apple environment is so superior and finally the price may be right.

You do kind of need a monitor, keyboard and mouse though. I guess you're supposed to use your old ones.

[boredofeducation]

107. Microsft stills make money off the Apple Platform

Microsoft is the largest provider of software for the Apple platform outside of Apple itself. If they can't make money off the platform, they would have dropped it by now. You buy a Mac to avoid Intel, you buy an AMD and load linux to avoid both Intel and Microsoft.

[politicat]

183. Not in this house. No M$.

Period.

We use adobe for graphics, Mariner, Think Free and Star office products, and non-MS games. I'll buy iWork when it comes out for keynote and the document developer tool.

I've already given my first born child to get a mortgage (too bad I'm not having one!). There's no way I'm signing over said non-existent entity in a MS EULA.

Pcat

[ocean girl]

5. Fabulous!

Read all about it:

http://www.apple.com/

[Downtown Hound]

9. By the time you've bought a monitor,

A keyboard and a mouse, you might as well have just bought an emac or imac. Sorry, I love Apple and am a die hard Mac loyalist, but this is actually pretty lame.

[Ezlivin]

11. If you truly love the Mac you'd never say something like that

Or do you want me to tell Steve Jobs what you said?

:)

Mac user since 1985

[Downtown Hound]

18. Heh, heh, sometimes we must tell the truth to those we love

regardless of whether or not it hurts them. Hey, I said they might as well buy the emac or imac and get the full power of the mac experience didn't I? I will say that the design of this machine is simply amazing, as is usual for Apple's engineers. But it just doesn't seem very practical to me. Who knows though, maybe they'll be a huge hit and I'll end up eating my words. :P

I wouldn't put it past Apple to surprise even me.

[boredofeducation]

101. Apple is a corporation.

Just a reminder Apple is a corporation, just like Microsoft and Dell. They would do the same exact things Microsoft would do if they had
%90 + of the market share. Just remember that.

Also remember, a Mac is a machine, not a person, love a person, not a machine.

I like both Macs and x86 PCs, I don't love em.

[Salviati]

15. I really don't think that it is being marketed at people looking

for a first or a brand new computer. The way I see it, it is being marketed at all those people who have an extra keyboard and monitor lying around anyway. Heck I've got two in my basement. It's all about one thing: Getting an apple box in more people's houses, expanding their market share beyond the current apple diehards, and it is sheer genius.

They've already got a huge base of potential customers with their iPods, and now when you can get this sleek little computer for under $500, not to mention the fact that it would make a sweet home theater PC, this may just be the boost that apple has been looking for for a long time...

[wicket]

19. exactly

That's who I think this is being marketed towards too.

[da_chimperor]

16. Well, if you already have a keyboard and a mouse . . .

which many people switching from a PC or a mac will have, then it's not half bad. I think this can actually be a success, seeing as this is targeting people who are thinking about switching. Sure, you can get more for less if you get a PC, but this isn't a PC, it's a mac. My only reservation with it is the graphics card. A 32MB card is okay . . . but a 64MB card would be much better.

[priller]

22. My main gripe also

32MB for video is way, way too low these days.

[progressiveBadger]

52. No games to play anyway

Just enough to run ilife apps and that's it. I think this will fail worse than the G4 cube.

[LifeDuringWartime]

56. games

not everybody plays games on their computers!

i have my gamecube for that :)

[progressiveBadger]

67. And not everyone owns a mac

So there ya go.
Seriously though, the PC gaming market is very very large. I too primarily use my home computer for work. But I still think it's a valid argument against Macs.

[NuttyFluffers]

174. umm, buy a pc gaming machine?

seriously, there's plenty of itty bitty pc gaming machines optimized for ultimate lan-party gaming. and they can be easily bought atop this minimac (i just love this name better, mac mini... like stop/go traffic it is) for around the price of a primo imac.

maybe it isn't fair for me to comment. living next door to silicon valley probably leaves me with a slanted view of the personal computing market. most homes i know have at least 2 machines, usually more. throw in some gamers i chill with and you get pc specializers (compared to console specializers), and then you have a slew of computer options and toys. it's almost odd to imagine someone who doesn't literally overflow with electronics in their home. and plenty of people looking to simplify the spaghetti that their home has become, along with irritating upgrades, patches, etc, people are looking into machines that provide multimedia machines with simple aesthetics. well-integrated software from apple just cinches the deal. if only they could make it cheaper and get rid of the extraneous components... oh wait, they just did.

[mrbassman03]

72. Yeah... because you know that the ENTIRE WORLD can't live without games...

Listen, Macs are not for gaming. If you want to play the latest POS role-playing, I live in my parent's basement game, go spend the money on a high end PC. This is for the computer illiterate types, the kind that went out and got a Dell and realized it was nothing but trouble. This way, they can take out the Dell box and put in the Mac mini, with no other setup. If you want to play high end games, don't get a Mac...

[jdj]

84. Am I the only person in the world that doesn't play video

games or computer games?

I did play a real trivia game that my dad found the other day.

Every since I was first given my brothers old mac I have fallen in love with them. It feels like the difference between a garden gnome (pc) and a brand new cuddly puppy (my mac).

[da_chimperor]

98. This new mac is an attempt to gain market share

and the more market share apple has, the more games are going to be ported to the mac and at a quicker pace. I'm crossing my fingers for apple on this one.

[boredofeducation]

105. Depends on what market share they are going after?

Home users? Do they really want this market share? These are the people that clog your tech support lines with questions like why AOL don't work or why my computer won't play my favorite game. This usually a loser with thin profit margins.

Corporations? Buys tons of computers but has always favored Microsoft/IBM/Dell/HP because of bulk purchases and integration into their antiquated accounting software.

Education? They missed the boat on this market because Apple took them for granted. Now most of the decisions in education is made my ex-Corporate IT staff, who favor Microsoft/IBM/Dell/HP.

Government? Always favored Dell/Microsoft/IBM/HP.

Over the years, Apple has lost market share, even this year they lost market share. There market share is reportedly less than %3.

The iPod is a hit and they are now being known as the iPod company instead of a computer company.

[da_chimperor]

116. Home users, more specifically people who are thinking of switching

Apple tech support is pretty good, and in addition recently produced macs generally have far fewer operational problems than PCs. I've had mine for over 3 years now and have never had a single problem. As far as profit margins go, Apple is the most profitable computer company in the US in terms of margins. Their profit margins are in the twenties, while dell has margins in the range of 10% and HP margins are nothing to be proud of. Corporations and government have never really been target markets, with the exception of companies doing graphics/video work and computers with scientific purposes.

Their market share has taken a hit recently, despite continuing sales growth, and what you're seeing here is an effort by apple to boost their market share. Apple sales grew only something like 2 to 3 percent, while the other large manufacturers grew by around 10%, so apple losing market share is natural, and their releasing a new product targeted to regain some of that lost share is to be expected. Also take into account that the apple product line was in a year of transition in 2004, with the introduction of the new iMac and the subsequent axing of the older one. There was something like a 3-month delay between stopping the production of the older model and actually shipping the newer one. Combined with G5 shortages, I don't find the numbers surprising.

I disagree with the 'iPod company' label, seeing as that apple has a very high level of brand recognition and they have had that level of recognition for quite a long time. Apple was chosen as 'brand of the year' back in 2001, after all. I don't know whether this will be a hit or not, but even so it's an interesting development.

[boredofeducation]

122. Apple tech support has been horrible

I have used Apple tech support and found it to be horrible. That is why they are losing the Education market, they have treated that market pretty bad over the past 5 years. Took it for granted and they are now losing it. Now they are trying to replace the void with home users, in my opinion is kinda dumb. Schools usually have tech support on staff, that can weed out software issues and hardware issues, and than will contact Apple about the hardware issues. If you go through Apple directly, they treat you like you are a computer moron and make you go through hoops to get what you want. And they will find ways to delay support for the machine. If you take to a local shop, you will have to wait 2-3 weeks for repairs, because that shop is the only apple shop within 50 miles and everyone uses them because they don't want to deal with apple.

I have vendors that will overnight a new part to me, I install it and send back the old one. Costs my time and a day of downtime for that machine. All postage is pre-paid.

Most users don't care what computer is on their desk or in their lap, it just has to work, and if it don't it has to be fixed in a reasonable amount of time. I hate telling users that their computer is still at the shop and that we expect it within a week or two or three or a month or two.

Apple is being known as the iPod company, and that is not a bad thing.

[da_chimperor]

124. So is that why Apple year-over-year education sales are up 18%

as of mid-year 2004?

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2004/tc2004085_0709_tc153.htm

[boredofeducation]

126. Up a little after the bleeding of sales going to Dell

Also, private purchases of computers should not be considered education. Usually education market is defined by what Schools and Colleges themselves purchase, not what the student body buys.

It's kind of like saying enron stock is up 100%, because it traded at 2 cents instead of a penny, but without looking at it's historic decline from the $50.00 range with lossing %99.9999999 of it's market value.

[da_chimperor]

128. Your example is much too extreme

Apple sales aren't what they once were, but any growth is good. Getting new younger customers is also a very good thing for apple. If they don't drop the ball, these customers can turn into loyal mac addicts. As far as their education sales go, can you blame schools for resorting to cheaper computers after chimpy has axed education funding? I can't. Apple is doing what they can. Dell can always undercut them in terms of price, so they have to sell consumers on something else other than price.

[politicat]

186. They've never treated me like a moron.

My airport card went south. We did the diagnostics suggested on the apple tech support site, then called. The questions went pretty much like this:

AC: Did you re-install the card?

Me: So you know, we followed the instructions in documents XXX, YYY, ZZZ, and NNN. Trouble shooting says the card's dead.

AC: Sounds like it. We'll get a card out to you overnight, and you just need to express the old one back to us.

The card arrived on Monday (the card died on a Saturday, and DHL doesn't deliver on Sundays); we reinstalled monday night, and I dropped it in a Fedex, prepaid postage box on Tuesday. My experience has been that everything that you are complaining about that Apple doesn't have, they do. I don't know how you're communicating with them, but we have never had a problem getting Apple care personnel to be anything but polite and attentive and easy to work with, and this includes the three months that we spent sending a lemon (and they do happen) back and forth 6 times. Apple replaced it with a better model than we bought.

iPod is okay- it's a great gizmo, sure and it is a gateway drug to Apple. That, in my mind saves it from being consigned to the okay, if they must, category.

[politicat]

185. Government is switching slowly.

Lots of defense work uses mac because it's far more secure. When I worked for Motorola, there was always training on the 68K chipset and the mac for DoD personnel. There are also several scientific departments in this area that have switched to mac because they're less prone to viral attacks. While that won't last forever, they're taking advantage of it.

Pcat

[da_chimperor]

97. You can get games for the mac, and some really good ones too

It's just not going to be anything brand new. It takes a minimum of 6 months for a game to end up on the mac. The newest one coming out is Rise of Nations, I think it just came out for the mac last month. I've got a PS2 anyway. :D

[politicat]

184. there are games.

MacPlay, MacSoft, etc... and for the rest, well, isn't that what the consoles are for?

Pcat

[benburch]

17. And you don't own those things already?

Most people do. Total cost zero.

[complain jane]

20. This is aimed at PC users who already have monitor, mouse & keyboard

Not aimed at people who need to go out and buy new. Otherwise you're right, you might as well get the eMac or iMac.

[candice]

36. Hey, I'd just attach my flat-screen monitor to it (and reattach

it to my PC when I need to use it). I use my PowerBook G4 for most of my computer needs (even have Virtual PC installed, if necessary).

[asthmaticeog]

42. Think about who they're trying to sell these to.

They're trying to get PC users who use iPods and iTunes to switch. PC users have monitors, keyboards and mice already.

Hell, I'M glad for this - I need to upgrade (my G3 iBook's gettin' a little tired), and I still have the monitor from the old PowerPC 7300 I bought back in the mid '90s. A usb keyboard, I can nick from work. $500 for a more powerful Mac at home than my G4 tower at work? I'm game.

[bpilgrim]

80. this is for the SWITCHERS ;->

those who already have pc's but wanna try out a mac... millions of em... and they already have keyboards, monitors and mice :evilgrin:

very smart move by apple, imho.

peace

[belab13]

12. the apple designers sure earn their keep.

Just about everything produced by Apple looks about 20 years ahead of the competition. I'll forgive the pc centric posters on this thread who have not experienced the elegant functionality of Panther and the Mac machines.

[buddysmellgood]

13. This is exactly what I need to replace my kids' old machine.

[sam sarrha]

21. is it upgradable?? buying a piece of crap is bad enough, but if you cant

make it better is worse.. like the Compaq i have now.. Compqrap Pissario

the next one i am going to build, the off the shelf XP doesnt bog down wilth all the ad ware start up crap..

[priller]

23. Of course, with OS X and the Mac you don't have

all the adware and virus crapola you have to deal with under Windows.

[deacon2]

27. Unfortunately, you do now...

The Linux underneath OS X leaves security holes which are just beginning to be exploited by the s.o.b.'s who take delight in torturing work-a-day computer users. Many patches and programs are promised to fix this, but for now keep upgrading Norton via download and keep an eye on your machine for "demons" like the mouse seems to be under someone else's control, sluggish response and the like. Linux makes the MAC more acceptable to geekoids like the folks I work with and therefore more of a target for blackhats.

LOVE MACS btw (use Winduhs machines all the time for work - why God, oh why?!!!)

Correction: that's UNIX underneath OS X. I'm dealing with Linux at present and have achieved cerebral saturation.

[htuttle]

35. You are confused

There is no 'Linux' underneath OSX. OSX is built on a BSD foundation, not Linux.

Different kernel, different drivers, different everything except in the user or application level. Ergo, different security model.

In fact, the BSD blend that Darwin (ie., OSX) is built on borrows heavily from OpenBSD, which is quite secure.

[boredofeducation]

102. The only secure computer is a......

The only secure computer is a stand alone computer locked in a vault. Remeber their is no such thing as a secure computer, just a computer platform that hasn't been exploited yet.

[NuttyFluffers]

175. "nothing's foolproof because fools are so ingenius."

one of my favorite sayings.

yeah, nothing's perfect, but with a competent user who does proper maintenance and implements timely security, it's a pretty tough nut to crack. but then that goes with everything. except, with MS OS and using all MS products, you are on a treadmill going in hyperdrive -- there's almost no way to keep up with the proper maintenance and timely security. with mac you are on a normal pace and in a separate (albeit smaller) gym, largely safe from most bullies (spammers, crackers, phishers, etc).

[negativenihil]

104. no

it's not based on openbsd, it is based on FreeBSD, hence why some of the more senior freebsd kernel developers now work for apple.

[negativenihil]

103. what?

you are clearly ignorant.

there is no linux within osx. the unix core of osx is based on BSD, which is a very mature unix-like operating system.

your use of the word "UNIX" is also incorrect.

edit: you also mis-spelt "daemon". unix and unix-like operating systems have "daemons" not "demons".

[wicket]

106. yup, I love my mac!

Never had any problems in the 4 years I've had my G4

[boredofeducation]

109. for now anyways

"Of course, with OS X and the Mac you don't have
all the adware and virus crapola you have to deal with under Windows. "

For now, but I have used Microsoft PCs, and never had a virus or spyware, just have to know how to use a computer.

Never tought you platform as being virus/hacker/worm free, someone might prove you wrong someday.

[mrbassman03]

75. But you are using XP still...

and that is the problem. And yes, of course you can upgrade.

[Xithras]

145. Not really

It's a custom form factor motherboard in a unique case. You could probably upgrade the RAM or put in a bigger hard drive (assuming that you have the utilities to configure it for Mac usage and reinstall the OS), but that's going to be about it.

[Gman]

24. There is no such thing as a Macintosh PC

that's an oxymoron.

[Brundle_Fly]

91. umm...

Personal Computer...

I think it works for macs too. There is no "PC" brand "PC"

[NuttyFluffers]

176. the pesonal computing market (home retail market)...

terminology has been annexed by IBM PC clones. to say that quickly people just say pc. i lived around the time of apple pcs and ibm pcs, people have just adopted the slang of using the entire category of home retail computer processors as the name for all the ibm clones.

you do know the categories of processors right? granted some of them are out-of-date and/or wholly destroyed categories (personal computing market exploded in growth and power). i'm sure you've heard of mainframe, microprossesors, super computers, etc, right? personal computers is just the home end of this chain.

or was this a sarcastic joke and it went over my head...? an emoticon might've helped.

[okieinpain]

25. umm, MACS SUCK!! :~)

[da_chimperor]

26. Take that back, you unwashed heathen!

:P

[okieinpain]

31. oh, come on. they could have ruled the universe. but instead

they went around acting like a stuck up bush kid. get you a decent clone, and drop w2k on it and you're ready to go. if you want a really solid system drop one of the latest versions of linux on it.

[Reverend Smoothfield]

38. if anyone's going to be doing any "dropping" around here it should be you

i respectfully suggest you take you your pc and drop that beyotch in the tizzleoilet. just a little free technical support up in this piece. word is bond.

[okieinpain]

39. rev, just think of all the good you could do with the extra bucks

you would have left over, instead of wasting it on a overpriced mac.

[Reverend Smoothfield]

41. i think i'd buy a gun and kill myself.

the last thing i'd see would be a giant helpful paperclip with eyes.

[AntiCoup2K4]

48. You think you'd be done with Clippy then? No, he's in Hell too!

See! -------->

[da_chimperor]

119. They did have their ego days, I'll give you that one

but those days are over, and I absolutely love my mac. I wouldn't have it any other way, and many of my friends always want to use my computer instead of theirs to check e-mail on, and mine is an old and battered powerbook G4. :D They have a version of Linux for PPC-based machines, y'know.

[Magleetis]

28. The Mac

may very well be superior to a windows machine. I think they both have pros and cons. For me it is a matter of economics. I have about $500.00 in my self built PC and I think it would run circles around this new Mac. I must admit that the arrogance of Apple bothers me a little also. They are convinced that they have a superior product. Why so little market share? The Mac sorta reminds me of the Sony Betamax.

[Demit]

33. the Mac is seamless integration of software to hardware. Apple does both.

With Dell, etc you have to match up their boxes with Bill Gates' horror of software code. Then pay for the privilege of being his beta tester. And pay, and pay...

the differential in price is all about cost of ownership. My Mac will keep on keepin on long after you've bought your 3rd or 4th PC...

[candice]

37. Yes, my PowerMacs from the 80s are still going strong

...although I love my PowerBook G4. Best computer I've ever used (and having worked in the computer industry in Silly Vally most of my life, that is saying something).

[boredofeducation]

115. Now install OS X on them

Any computer can still run the software that it was originally designed for, Ie a IBM PS/2 Model 57 can still run Windows 3.1, but it won't do XP. Now install OS X on your 80's Macintosh, it won't work and probably won't even install.

[LifeDuringWartime]

158. well of course not

most macs from the 80s didnt even have color screens.

whats your point?

[politicat]

187. Would you compare (pardon pun) apples to apples?

Any computer can still run the software that it was originally designed for, Ie a IBM PS/2 Model 57 can still run Windows 3.1, but it won't do XP. Now install OS X on your 80's Macintosh, it won't work and probably won't even install.

Don't you see the logical contradiction you're putting forward? 3.1 was designed to run on a mid 80's computer, with mid 80's tech. XP is designed to run on a 2000 or better computer, with that year's tech. You know, Moore's law?

But that 8086 or 286 is not going to run XP. Sorry. It just can't. there's a 10+ year gap. Besides, many of those machines have become physically non-functional due to corroded solder and the fact that they're pushing 20 years old.

Now, let's consider a mid 80's apple. It can run OS 8 and 9.2 usually - DH has a MacTV out in the shed that runs 9.2, but slowly. The MacTV was built in 88, but don't quote me on that. Of course it can't run X, but then again, neither can his 486 run XP, nor his old sparc box run current version of Solaris. (Yes, we do have a museum around here, thank you very much.)

I realize, after reading your posts that you don't like apple, but if you're going to dislike them, then please do so on real, accurate reasons, not on blind, inaccurate prejudice.

Pcat

[LifeDuringWartime]

40. im using a powermac g3

from 98/99. its the most recent model not supported by the latest OS version. still runs pretty well though.

[progressiveBadger]

53. Not true

I have a $400 home desktop running linux. Not one piece of MS software on it. And I have more games available than I do on my Powerbook.

[mrbassman03]

76. Well, try to get Susie Homemaker to run Linux...

Sure, Linux is a great OS, but not very user friendly. Then have her try OSX.

[HuckleB]

63. Indeed.

PC users keep upgrading and buying new stuff and watching their computers explode, and then they wonder why I would spend so much money on my Mac?

They crack me up. It's because I like to save money and time that I spent so much money on my Mac.

[boredofeducation]

114. It's a closed platform

"With Dell, etc you have to match up their boxes with Bill Gates' horror of software code. Then pay for the privilege of being his beta tester. And pay, and pay...

the differential in price is all about cost of ownership. My Mac will keep on keepin on long after you've bought your 3rd or 4th PC..."

If I remember correctly, Apple had a ton of issues with OS X when it was first released. They still have upgrades, just like Microsoft, and security patches every so-often just like Microsoft....

[mrbassman03]

161. Of course, but it's still infinitely better than XP...

Look at these new features for Tiger, similar to those SCRAPPED for Longhorn.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/spotlight.html

oh, and this...
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/

and this:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/fastuserswitching/

Well, if you can sit down with that stick in your ass, watch the keynote from Macworld...
http://stream.apple.akadns.net/

[politicat]

188. sure, all new software has issues.

Real world testing is part of the process. X is now VERY stable, and was in about the 3rd month after it came out.

And yes, there are security updates. About once a month. Now, considering that MS releases a security update about every third day....

[dolstein]

43. Of course, Beta was superior to VHS . . .

So your comparison of Apple to the Betamax is very much on point. The fact is, the better product doesn't always win out in the marketplace.

[Fiendish Thingy]

44. of course, Betamax never had 10's of millions of users,

not to mention the Mac being the preferred platform for digital recording (I'm taking a Protools class and 50-60% of the class members are Mac users- compared to 3% market share overall), animation (Pixar), and CGI effects (Lord of the Rings etc.)
You get what you pay for...

[parasim]

45. pros and cons

mac
pros: superior operating system, beautiful hardware design, ease of use unparalled, professionally designed software, cheaper.
cons: must endure much whining from windoze people and linux heads.

pc:
pros: uh...
cons: virus collector, expensive.

:evilgrin:

[progressiveBadger]

54. cheaper?

how do you figure? I can build you a system that is twice as powerful as this "re-Cube" for $500, with a monitor.

[parasim]

57. cheaper, indeed. For me, anyway. here's how...

As a designer, I rely heavily on computers to get my job done. I use both Macs and PCs. I prefer the Mac to do the design work and use the PC to check to make sure it works and looks good (I design software user interfaces) on the PC since that's what most of my clients have. So I use the Mac probably 90-95% of the time.

The vast majority of the time I spend on the Mac is billable. (whenever I get a new mac, it pays itself off in less than a month) I spend very little time configuring things, replacing drivers, just trying to figure out why things won't print, or scan, or why won't this or that won't work. I rarely, if ever, have to do that on the Mac. Things just work. Always have.

So, yeah, it is much chearper for me to spend an hour doing design work and getting paid for that time than spend an hour reconfiguring some driver. Of course, I'm not a programmer or engineer, so it takes me longer to figure that stuff out.

On top of that, the OS is a true modern operating system that allows me to work so much faster than if I use Windows, so I also save money by getting my work done in a much shorter period of time. This allows more billable hours to be packed into a day. Plus my clients appreciate the speed in which I can get things done, which also helps my business by getting me more work.

I've been doing this for more almost 20 years now.

on edit: changed week to month... perhaps I was exagerating just a tad there... :)


All that said, my comment was really just to see if I could ruffle some feathers as I haven't been in a good ol' mac vs peecee argument in awhile... hence the :evilgrin:

[progressiveBadger]

66. That's true

You're not going to hear me argue too much. I love my Powerbook. I just don't really like this new model. I think it's worse than the cube was. They already have a budget computer, it's the imac.
You won't hear any criticism from me about OS X though. That OS is a dream.

[mrbassman03]

77. iMac? Budget? It's $1200!!!

Maybe you meant eMac... but this is aimed at a different group of people.

[progressiveBadger]

131. Yep, budget

It's a G5. The G4 is honestly a crappy processor. If I wanted a bs cpu, I would buy a celeron and build a $200 PC.

[mrbassman03]

144. Well, my G4 Powerbook is great!

I notice very little difference between my friend's new iMac and my Powerbook. Mostly that is because they are too fast to notice those small changes. Go buy your $200 POS, oh sorry, PC... and I'll gladly take this one.

[progressiveBadger]

150. There is a large difference

The G5 is a fantastic CPU. For those of us in a field that needs a lot of raw computational power, you have a choice between a G5 or a decent Intel or AMD processor. Try and render something in Maya on your friends new iMac and I promise you will notice a difference.
Anyway, my original point was that this new system is CHEAP, not cheaper. I think it's a crappy direction for Apple to go, and I doubt it will be nearly as successful for them as the ipod or their line of powerbooks.

[mrbassman03]

151. Well, this is obviously not aimed at the "RAW CPU POWA!!!" folks...

This is for Miss "I'm tired of my PC crapping out all the time and I want something easy and affordable to replace it". Of course the G5 is a better chip than the G4, but it is not necessary for day to day activities. If I had no knowledge of different computers and someone told me that there was a new, cheap computer out that did not get viruses, spyware, or even crash, I would be all over it. That's what Apple is doing, and they are going to make a killing.

[NuttyFluffers]

177. you almost made me pee my pants!! bwa ha ha!

that "RAW CPU POWA!!!" comment got me rolling with laughter. it totally reminds me of the Mandarin in the sega genesis game Captain America and the Avengers. he has an absolutely hilarious similar sound byte, "SEE MY POWA!!!"

if you wanna "SEE HIS POWA!!!" check the link and scroll to the bottom.
http://www.whipassgaming.com/genesisreviews/captainamerica.html

if i knew how to attach a clickable sound file to this message i would, but i guess this is easier.

[politicat]

189. Do you know the difference between the chipset architecture?

a 1 GHz RISC (Mac) chip and a 1 GHz CISC (Intel) chip are not equivalent in computing power.

DH says (and I've no reason to distrust him, and it jibes with my own memory of working for Sun, GE and Motorola) that a CISC chip performs about 1.5 times better than a RISC chip. I do know that if you load equivalent software ( i.e. load photoshop) on by the numbers equivalent apples and intels, the apple runs better.

You might want to read up on chip architecture so you understand what you're talking about. It's a serious difference, and it causes a lot of confusion.

Pcat

[htuttle]

46. They remind me more of Mercedes

But the cost difference isn't nearly so large as in automobiles.

While the Betamax comparison might have been appropriate before the Internet, I think everything is different now. Lots of different types of computers can use the 'information superhighway' -- just like both Chevy and Mercedes can use the same roads.

[AntiCoup2K4]

47. At this price, I just might give the Mac another shot.

I'm currently trying to wean myself off of Microsoft anyway (running Linux on the PC) and I have a K/V/M switch anyway (currently with an old Celeron clunker hooked up to it). My only question is are the components actually compatible? The monitor port on the back of this machine doesn't look at all like the 9 - pin ports common on PC's. And while keyboards & mice themselves are cheap enough, if I switched to a USB set, then my K/V/M/ switch would be useless as well.

So help me out here Mac users.... Will I be able to use standard PS/2 keyboard & mouse and a regular monitor with this and/or does Apple provide adapters if they don't fit their standard hardware. It's not at all a bad price for a second computer, if it can actually work with my current setup.

[Deja Q]

51. Verify the specs before blindly calling it 'not a bad price for...'. It's

amazing. The last one or two times I caught somebody posting this article, nobody bothered to look up the specs. This time I'm not because I've seen the specs before and it's another insult against the consumer.

[NashVegas]

59. I Looked at the Specs

40 gig / 80 gig configurations. G4.

It's not a toy, but it's not for people who are going to be putting tons and tons of mp3s and other chewy media on.

Sure would look nice on the GM's or CEOs desk, though.

[chenGOD]

135. Umm a G4 is not gonna have a problem with "chewy media"

80 GB of space=a lot of MP3s. Quite a few movies as well.
This statement: "It's not a toy, but it's not for people who are going to be putting tons and tons of mp3s and other chewy media on." makes no sense at all. The processor has very little to do with the amount of media one puts on a hard drive.

It's not a toy, cause you'll be able to browse the web/e-mail/listen to music/look at photos blah blah blah do whatever about 98% of computer users do.
For the people that are rendering movies at home, they'll be using a G5.
For hardcore gamers: they'll be using an x86 based platform.

What is chewy media anyways?

[boredofeducation]

137. Bubble Gum

I think this machine is nice, very small footprint. The only thing I would have liked would have been thinner, but larger footprint so it can be placed under the monitor. Also the power button should be located on the front of the machine instead of the back. And put the headphone jack on the front. I also wonder why Apple dropped the dual headphone jacks, that was very cool feature for schools. They had them on the earlier CRT iMacs.

[chenGOD]

147. Ahhh bubble gum is a chewy media indeed...

I agree about the headphone jack, but I would have the power button on top.

It kind of can be place under a monitor if you're using an LCD with styling like an apple one..that is, under the screen, but not under the monitor stand. Obiously not under a big CRT monitor though...

[Atman]

166. Without a doubt, some of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen

on any subject.

"Ignorance." Not stupidity, not anything else, just ignorance about the Mac platform and what this machine is all about. There is nothing "toy" about the processor. The only people who need a G5 are professional video editors and hi-end publishing companies.

This machine is aimed at a specific market...I am writing this on an old iMac 400DV (G3), which is running the latest version of OSX, and I currently have Photoshop, Illustrator, Safari and IE, Mail, Yahoo IM, and Adobe GoLive all running at once. I also usually have OS9.2 running, too, because of an old legacy scanner I use, but I got a new scanner for Christmas, so I don't have to run it anymore. Meanwhile, iTunes is cranking out my tunes (1574 songs for 4.3 days worth of uninterupted tunage). It is on a three node wireless Lan, it has not been turned off in I don't know how long. Several months, at least.

I already own an external 120gb Firewire HD and a 52X burner. I use a tablet and a trackball, so I have absolutely no use for another stupid mouse of ANY kind, no matter how many buttons it has. I have a box full of keyboards and even an unused 17" monitor in my attic. This machine would be PERFECT for me. A super-cheap way to upgrade.

A component of the motherboard went on our iBook; it was out of warrantly but Apple took it back, replaced the board and even put in a new HD, and sent it back in four days. Beyond that, I can't comment much about their customer service, because since getting my first MacII back in 1980-whatever, I've simply never had to call them for anything else.

This new Mac is NOT meant for you tech weenies and build-your-owners. Games? Why the fuck would I care when we already have a PS2 and a GameCube? I swear, you Mac Bashers are like freepers talking about dems...lots of hot air and chest thumping without a freakin' clue what you are talking about. Again, not in a bad way...just plain good old fashioned ignorance. So, if you don't like the new machine, don't buy one. If we only needed on model of computer, there'd only be one model of computer.

Different strokes. Chill out. And go check out Apple's stock price...up over 200%. Not bad for a company that's been going out business for as long as I can remember.

[mrbassman03]

171. Yeah! What he said!

Exactly what I am trying to get across!

[Sparky McGruff]

55. Your monitor will work

It uses a standard monitor. It has a DVI-out, and it comes with a little adapter that lets you use any old-school VGA monitor you'd like.

Your PS2 keyboard and mouse, however, won't work. It uses a USB mouse and keyboard.

[boredofeducation]

100. Get a USB Keyboard/mouse adapter

They can be found for about 10 bucks, will allow use of you favorite PS/2 keyboard and mouse with any USB MAC or PC. The Windows key is usually the Apple key on the mac. I have done this. Or you can buy a usb keyboard and mouse for about $40.00 or less

[rocktivity]

165. The "Macintosh" keyboard I recently ordered

CAME with a USB/serial adapter!

:headbang:
rocknation

[NuttyFluffers]

178. comes with vga convertor, so no monitor worries.

go check www.apple.com and check the specs and pack-ins yourself.

about your keyboards and mice, get a few ps2>usb convertors. they are pretty cheap. in fact, when in doubt, convert to usb, for most peripherals.

and 40/80 gig is a big enough harddrive for most people. my 200+ cd album collection easily fits in that -- roughly around 13gigs. then there's my family's *entire photo album collection* (around 40+ years of pictures, slides, and memories. easily 15+ whole large albums and oodles of mini albums and unsorted packets of processed film) which is roughly 700+mb. naturally it'll keep growing, but we're looking at 14gigs roughly of *the important stuff* and there's still more room on our 120gig HDD. only video games really, and flawed and endlessly patched MS software, that eats up into disk space. then we have a spare 80gb harddrive just lying around, and then my iPod is another 40gig harddrive, and then there's cds and dvds we can write the data onto...

seriously, you are in no want of space with just 40/80gb in this machine. just buy $20 worth of cd-rs or an (x)-rw or 2 (which you are gonna do at some point in time) and you got oodles of space.

[Deja Q]

50. It has a keyboard but NO MONITOR. Apple is FLEECING, once again... And,

its system specs are garbage for anyone who needs a computer to do anything useful and for the price, that $149 e-mail/word prcessor with integrated black'n'white LCD monitor from CompUSA is quite sufficient.

I thought Apple couldn't possibly sink any lower when it introduced its fruit-flavored iMacs (:eyes:) but it looks like they proved me wrong.

[LifeDuringWartime]

58. heh

you dont need to buy a new monitor every time you buy a new computer. recycle!

[parasim]

60. What are you talking about?

Those specs beat out the workhorse machine that I use daily for my design business, which includes heavy audio/video work. It's got power to spare.

Let's see, at any given time, I'm running Photoshop, After Effects, Soundtrack, Illustrator, Mail and Safari simultaneously (not to mention iTunes and various utilities that I've got running). and I get plenty of useful things done quite handily, thank you very much.

on edit: as for Apple "fleecing", I disagree. It's just another example of how Apple listens and responds to users. This "headless" Mac is perfect for both disenfrancised PC users looking to make the switch without spending an arm and a leg and also for business owners like me looking for ways to still use monitors and other peripherals that have long outlived their CPUs.

[mrbassman03]

78. What the hell are you talking about?

The specs are higher than my Powerbook, which runs ridiculously smoothly. Go buy your POS CompUSA thing, and I'll stick this on top of my TV for DVD's. Oh, and to display photos on the TV. Oh, and play music through my stereo. Oh, also run it as a webserver, print server, and mail server. All for $500. And I'm better than you. Just thought I'd throw THAT in your face. Haha. just kidding. :)

[bpilgrim]

82. lol

"$149 e-mail/word processor with integrated black'n'white LCD monitor from CompUSA is quite sufficient."

obviously you havew no clue...

this mini power-house is using the most secure and easiest to use operating system on the planet no way you can match that up with some 150 dollar word pro.

fyi: think about the millions of pc users just dying to try a mac but not willing to pay thousands of dollars... they already got the keyboard, mouse and monitor... with a $100 switcher they can share their keyboard, mouse and monitor with their existing pc ;->

very shrewed indeed.

peace

[Q]

61. Mac Mini Specs:

Introducing the Mac mini. Everything you need — and not an ounce more — to enjoy digital photos, music and movies. Get a fast G4 processor, slot-loading CD-RW/DVD-ROM drive and a reliable operating system in a body just 6.5-inches square and 2-inches tall. Simply add monitor, keyboard and mouse. You’ll be organizing music and photos, composing tunes and editing movies with iLife ’05 in no time. Surf the Internet with the peace of mind of the secure and stable UNIX-based Mac OS X operating system. And since Mac mini can do wireless, you don’t even have to put it near a phone jack. Configure your Mac mini with an AirPort Extreme Card, hook up an AirPort Express to your DSL connection or cable modem, and start surfing and printing wirelessly. Using AirPort Express and AirTunes, you can even listen to tunes from your Mac mini on speakers in a different room. Starting at just $499.


Configurations
1.25GHz Mac mini
1.42GHz Mac mini

Model
M9686LL/A
M9687LL/A

Processor
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
1.42GHz PowerPC G4

Memory
256MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SRAM, supports up to 1GB

Graphics
ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of DDR SDRAM with AGP 4X support

Hard drive1
40GB Ultra ATA1
80GB Ultra ATA1

Optical drive
Slot-loading Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)

Ports
One FireWire 400 port; two USB 2.0 ports; DVI output; VGA output (adapter included)

Networking
Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet and 56K V.92 modem3

Wireless
AirPort Extreme option (based on 802.11g specification; IEEE 802.11b Wi-Fi certified)4; internal Bluetooth module available as build-to-order option

Audio
Headphone/audio line out

System software
Mac OS X version 10.3 “Panther,” includes Classic environment, Mail, iChat AV, Safari, Sherlock, Address Book, QuickTime, iSync, iCal

Software
iLife ‘05 (includes iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD and GarageBand), AppleWorks, Quicken 2005 for Mac, Nanosaur 2, Marble Blast Gold and Apple Hardware Test

Limited warranty and service
Your Mac mini comes with 90 days of free telephone support and a one-year limited warranty. Purchase the AppleCare Protection Plan to extend your service and support to three full years. Only the AppleCare Protection Plan provides you with direct telephone support from Apple technical experts and the assurance that repairs will be handled by Apple-certified technicians using genuine Apple parts. For more information, visit Apple support or call 800-823-2775.

Internet access
All models include 30 days of free dial-up Internet service with EarthLink (North America only) activation. Internet access requires a compatible Internet service provider; fees may apply.


Build-to-Order Options
Order a custom-configured computer from the online Apple Store or an authorized Apple reseller.

Memory

Up to 1GB5



DVD

Slot-loading SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)

Apple 4x DVD-R Media Kit M8985G/A


Hard Drive

80GB internal hard drive


Input

Apple Keyboard M9034LL/A

Apple Mouse M9035G/A

Apple Wireless Keyboard (requires Bluetooth module) M9270LL/A

Apple Wireless Mouse (requires Bluetooth module) M9269Z/A


Cables and adapters

Apple DVI to Video Adapter M9267G/A

Apple FireWire Cable (4-pin to 6-pin) M8706G/A


Audio

Apple iPod

Wireless

AirPort Extreme Card

Internal Bluetooth module

AirPort Express Featuring AirTunes M9470LL/A

AirPort Extreme Base Station (with modem and antenna port) M8799LL/A

D-Link USB Bluetooth Adapter T6295ZM/A


Services


AppleCare Protection Plan M9859LL/A

.Mac Subscription M9495Z/A


Technical Specifications

Processor and memory


1.25GHz or 1.42GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine

512K on-chip level 2 cache at full processor speed

167MHz system bus

256MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM, expandable to up to 1GB5


Storage

40 or 80GB Ultra ATA hard disk drive1

One of the following optical drives:

Slot-loading Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW): reads DVDs at up to 8x speed, writes CD-R discs at up to 24x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 16x speed, reads CDs at up to 24x speed

Optional SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW): writes DVD-R discs at up to 4x speed, writes DVD-RW discs at up to 2x speed, writes DVD+R discs at up to 4x speed, writes DVD+RW discs at up to 2.4x speed, reads DVDs at up to 8x speed, writes CD-R discs at up to 16x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 8x speed, reads CDs at up to 24x speed


Audio

Built-in speaker

Headphone/Audio Line-out jack


Graphics support

ATI Radeon 9200 graphics processor with AGP 4X support

32MB of dedicated Double Data Rate (DDR) video memory


Video

DVI video output for digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200 pixels; supports 20-inch Apple Cinema display and 23-inch Apple Cinema HD display; supports coherent digital displays up to 154MHz; supports non-coherent digital displays up to 135MHz

VGA video output (using included adapter) to support analog resolutions up to 1920 x 1080 pixels

S-video and composite video output to connect directly to a TV or projector (requires Apple DVI to Video Adapter, sold separately)


Peripheral connections

One FireWire 400 port; 8 watts

Two USB 2.0 ports (up to 480 Mbps) on computer


Communications

Built-in 56K V.92 modem (RJ-11 connector)2

Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet (RJ-45 connector)

Optional internal 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme Card (based on IEEE 802.11g standard; Wi-Fi Certified for 802.11g and 802.11b interoperability)3

Optional internal Bluetooth module


Electrical and environmental requirements

Meets ENERGY STAR requirements

Line voltage: 100-240V AC

Frequency: 50Hz to 60Hz, single phase

Maximum continuous power: 85W

Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)

Storage temperature: -40° to 116° F (-40° to 47° C)

Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing

Maximum altitude: 10,000 feet


Size and weight

Height: 2 inches (5.08 cm)

Width: 6.5 inches (16.51 cm)

Depth: 6.5 inches (16.51 cm)

Weight: 2.9 pounds (1.32 kg)4

1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less.

Compatible ISP and telephone services required. Your ISP may not support all V.92 features. Modem will function according to V.90 standards if V.92 services are not available. Actual modem speeds lower.

Wireless Internet access requires AirPort Extreme Card; AirPort, AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme Base Station; and Internet access (fees may apply). Some ISPs are not currently compatible with AirPort.

Weight varies by configuration and manufacturing process.

Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider.

Internet access requires a compatible Internet service provider; fees may apply.

Product contains electronic documentation.

Backup copy of software is included.

[LifeDuringWartime]

64. one thing i really dont like

lack of audio input. then again, much pro/semi-pro audio hardware uses usb these days.

[boredofeducation]

112. Power button in the back?

Why have they started doing this? Putting the power button in the back. Kind of inconvenient, they did this with the eMAc and iMac Lamp. I would have put the power button in the front, same with the headphone jack.

[mrbassman03]

152. Well, don't buy it then...

I don't get what your big deal with Apple is... if you don't like the product, go buy a PC. If you have no trouble with it, more power to you. The fact is that you are not the norm. Most people want a simple computer that can play music, get email, type letters, and look at photos with the least amount of hassle. This computer is perfect for that.

[BigMcLargehuge]

162. I don't turn my computer off... except during thunderstorms of

majestic proportions, so I don't see why the placement of the power button would be an issue. Macs sleep well, and most keyboards can be mapped to turn on/off the computer anyway. Besides, with something as small as a little stacks of CD jewel cases I don't see this being installed on the floor under a desk (like my DP 1.25 G4 tower).

[Touchdown]

163. Most Mac keyboards have power buttons on them

which is closer to your fingers than the front of the Mac Mini.

[boredofeducation]

108. Not bad specs

I am glad it is not an "all-in-one" saves you from buying a new monitor everytime you want to swap out the computer. Also I wish they sold these a few years ago, I would rather buy a computer and monitor seperate, easier to handle and I can reuse the monitor for 6 years instead of 3. Also generates less "e-waste", less amount of old technology to throw out the better.

[huellewig]

65. My aunt just bought four of the Mac Mini.

They got one, one for me, one for my sister, and one for mom. Out of all of those people I was the only Mac user.

[VegasWolf]

69. People are still using Mac's? Wow, that is like so 80's. n/t

[MalachiConstant]

70. woah! don't trash the mac

i used a PC for as long as i can remember and switched to mac about a year ago. best computer related thing i've ever done. i'll never go back to the PC world.

besides, PC's started SARS, didn't you know?

[MalachiConstant]

71. HOLY CRAP!

this may be the funniest disclaimer ever. on the apple's page for this media player, the IPOD SHUFFLE (www.apple.com/ipodshuffle). scroll down almost to the bottom of the page and you will see this:

Music capacity is based on 4 minutes per song and 128Kbps AAC encoding.
Do not eat iPod shuffle.
Rechargeable batteries have a limited number of charge cycles and may eventually need to be replaced. Battery life and number of charge cycles vary by use and settings. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information.
Some computers require either the optional iPod shuffle Dock or a USB cable extender (sold separately).


haha!

[huellewig]

74. I like this one..

Keyboard, iPod mini, dock, hands, AirPort, Bluetooth and PC sold separately.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html

[VegasWolf]

154. LOL! " ... and PC required but sold seprately"!

[NuttyFluffers]

179. why can't i eat my iPod shuffle? ;)

do i have to cook it first? causes indigestion? waaah... i wanted to burb out show tunes! :cry:

[PsychoDad]

73. Low end?

Just saw a 2.9 ghz celeron HP Pavilion with keyboard, speakers, and 17 inch flat screen monitor for under $500 at the local wally world.

Now that's really "Low end"

( I know, I shouldn't go to Wally World, but the next nearest store is an hour away :( Yes, the WM killed everyone else.. )

[mrbassman03]

79. Well, go buy that then...

If you want a computer that RUNS, go pick up this new one.

[boredofeducation]

99. How do you know they don't work?

I mean, HP has been selling dead computers? They are like the 2nd largest computer manufacturer and all this time they sell computers that don't work?

Please refraim from your Mac Zealotry

[Xithras]

149. Well, we're no longer allowed to buy HP's here at work

We used to have almost a thousand of them, but they broke so often that we finally had to find another vendor. Today we use Dell...another big, evil, outsourcing corporation, but at least their computers WORK. There's a REASON that Wally world can sell them for five franklins.

As far as I'm concerned, Carly Fiorina has transformed Hewlett-Packard into Packard-Bell, and they deserve the same fate.

[PsychoDad]

136. If I were in the market

For a cheap computer I would. Currently my household has have 3 working HP Pavilions - An older pentium 2 and 2 pentium 4's, So I currently have no need for another one.

[roguevalley]

81. I'm going to get this to run my mac jaz disks on. We have a

mac G4 and a brandnew maxed out (speed, RAM) dell. I can rule the world then. Consider yourself serf on Jan. 23rd to my indomitable will. :+

[da_chimperor]

118. Celeron . . . ewww.

My last PC had a celeron processor. I hated that piece of crap, I think it's one of the reasons why I became totally fed-up with having a PC.

[boredofeducation]

120. And that is the PCs fault because?

In the PC market their are many different CPUs to chose from, Celeron, PIV, XEON, AMD and others. Buy what you need and can afford. Celerons are fine for Internat, e-mail, some games and basic computer uses but PIVs are better for graphics, high end games and stuff. Xeon is usually found in high-end graphics and servers. AMD has it's own niche market, basically being they are not Intel.

[da_chimperor]

121. ?

Care you restate your question and/or point? I don't get what you're getting at.

[boredofeducation]

123. Many different CPUs available

Well you were complaining about the Celeron, the celeron is not the only CPU on the PC market, there are many to chose from with different price ranges and performance. Some earlier Celeron CPUs were kinda cruddy and weren't design to be a powerhouse and that is why they have a bad rep. Many people bought them cause they were cheap, some hardware hackers bought them to overclock.

[da_chimperor]

125. The computer came with it, and I was most unhappy with it's performance

Sure, it was an earlier celeron, but it made a bad impression on me that I don't think Intel can do anything about. :shrug:

[boredofeducation]

127. That is the same reason why a lot of people hate macs

That is the exact same excuse why I hear people hate macs, because they had one or used one in the 90's and thought it's performace sucked and cost a ton of money. Now since OS X and faster hardware, that isn't the case anymore. I wonder if people who bought a Mac in 1997, what would Apple do about it? Just sell you another one.

[da_chimperor]

130. You seem to have an axe to grind

Oh, and I had a reason, not an excuse for not liking Intel. :D

[boredofeducation]

133. No ax here to grind

But I don't have an Ax to grind other than the truth. I don't worship any corporation, Apple is a corporation and has an responsibility to it's customers. I feel that they try to keep their costs down by providing horrible support. I like Macs, I just don't like Apple. I have no blind faith.

Don't get me started on Apple's lack of a recycling program....

[mrbassman03]

153. Well, to be picky, Mac refers to the OS, not the computer...

So you like the OS but not the computer? Because I couldn't be happier with mine. Oh, and the tech support has been amazing, though it was my fault the computer broke. Oh, and they replaced it no questions asked. If you don't like corporations, go design and build your own computer and stop bitching about Apple.

[da_chimperor]

157. Ok, just wanted to clear things up

Thanks.

[PsychoDad]

134. The pc before thie one I use now...

Was a celeron 333mhz machine. I had no complaints about the hardware.
The operating system (win 98) was another matter... :(

[Fiendish Thingy]

156. Remember you can't compare PC speeds w/Mac speeds,

It's like comparing Apples and...well, you know... ;-)

For true comparison, check benchmark tests on Photoshop, video games, etc. done PC World/Mac World magazine. I'd bet the 1.25 Ghz G4 would hold its own, or even beat the 2.9 Ghz Celeron in many tasks...

In addition, compare the included software- Does that HP Pavilion come with Word Processing software, or do you have to buy Mr. Gates' products separately? How about elegant, easy to use software for managing digital photos and music, and creating movies and music of your own? Didn't think so. :P (although you can download iTunes for Windows...)


(edited to clarify speed comments)

[chomskysright]

85. thank god: we don't have to buy Repug Dell anymore...

List of cash supporters of the coronation...
From tbrnews.org

[Algomas]

86. I use a G5 Mac...

I decided to treat myself to a new computer last year. After 15 years of PC hell, I thought life would by so much better on the Apple side.
Wrong!! This POS has caused me more grief than the PC ever did. I assume my experience must be the exception after all the glowing reports about the stability of the Mac. My machine has a problem with the fans that Apples lame tech support can't seem to fix. The Bluetooth wireless mouse constantly loses connection so that I have to hook up the old fashioned mouse in order to re-pair the wireless. Every once in a while the system freezes and I have to shut down and reboot. The Airport Extreme failed so now I have to connect my printer using the USB port. It's a good thing there are multiple USB ports as the one on the front panel does not work anymore.
I have requested a replacement but they are very stingy in their support, even though I paid extra for the Apple Care support plan.
IMO, the Mac is very stylish and nice to use when it works properly but it is not worth the premium price.
On the other hand, the Ipod has to be the greatest gizmatic I have ever owned.

[mrbassman03]

90. Ummm, not my case...

I have a G4 Powerbook and it has had zero problems... Got a dead spot in the LCD due to an errant nalgene bottle, took it into the Apple store and had it fixed, all under AppleCare. I use the bluetooth mouse and keyboard, which are awesome, if a little battery hungry. The Airport Extreme is a little difficult to get working, as any wireless hub is, but it works great now. Never getting anything other than a Mac...

[Q]

94. I know of a bad carpenter who always blames his tools...

...for his mistakes.

I have found that most of the 'problems' experienced by Mac users revolves around them not learning about the system and hardware before they dive in.

I've used a mac since the 80s and I've never experienced as many problems in all that time that you have seemed to experience with one mac.

Perhaps...just perhaps...you don't know what the hell you're doing? (Could be the case after using a 'pc' for 15 years).

[boredofeducation]

96. Tools do break

"Perhaps...just perhaps...you don't know what the hell you're doing? (Could be the case after using a 'pc' for 15 years)."

If you can use a PC you can use a Mac, if you use a Mac it is harder to learn to use a PC. That was the saying of the past, but nowdays both platforms are easy to use.

Never blame a user for hardware failure unless they did something stupid like spill coffee down it. Also maybe you should broaden you horizons instead of criticizing people for not being an Apple Worshipper. I never worship a corporation, good or bad, once they sell me or my company bad equipment, if they don't fix it or make it right, I am done with them.

Apple does have problems with their low-end machines, iMac, eMac, and iBook that are usually system board related. This requires me to take these machines to an Apple dealer and get the boards replaced, luckily we do have Apple Care on everything so it does not cost us anything other than lost time and use of a machine. But I am disappointed to the fact that I have to send out a ton more Apple hardware than any other manufacturer combined.

If you buy an Apple, get Apple Care, you will need it. The parts for Apples are hard to find and if you do find them, they are very expensive, sometimes cheaper to buy a new computer. Don't get me going on Apple's poor performance on e-Waste.

[chenGOD]

138. Parts for apples are hard to find?

That oh so elusive ATI graphics card?
That damned near impossible to find RAM (which umm is that crazy wild variant of RAM, DDR SDRAM)?
That wild and wacky ATA HD technology?
That bizarre optical drive?

The only thing that's unique (and somewhat more difficult to locate as a result, although not too bad if you know where to look) on Macs in terms of hardware is the case, the mobo and the CPU.

If you had a problem with a motherboard on a x86 based PC, you'd have to take it to a shop as well, unless you know how to fix motherboards. And if you know how to fix motherboards, you'd probably take a crack at fixing the Mac one yourself.

[boredofeducation]

141. Yeah, I think I was talking about Apple Motherboard Problems

Every idiot knows that an ATA hard drive are the same in Macs or Dells. Optical drives are the same, RAM modules are usually the same. But if you need a Power Supply or Motherboard, you have to find a specific part that will only fit that model. And if you do, they are very pricey. It is cheaper to but another MAC than to have a motherboard replaced in an Apple iBook.

If you get a Mac, get the Three Year Apple Care warranty, it will be worth every penny, expecially if you buy a laptop.

Besides, if a Dell needs a new motherboard, (out of all the PCs I have to support, only one out of 200 needed a new MB, in warranty) I can buy them for about 50 bucks, if the machine was out of warranty. But I have had at least 80 apple motherboards replaced out of about 200 machines. Most of them were iBooks. I am glad we had Apple Care.

[chenGOD]

148. Yes I would advise anyone to buy AppleCare...

I wonder why the iBooks/iMacs have had problems with mobos, I have an older B&W G3 (1998, 350Mhz) that has no problems at all. The crt monitor of course has the flicker problem that many of Apple's CRT monitors from that time experienced...

Anyhow, to buy Apple mobos, it's easiest to go to Apple, but if you do some research on xlr8yourmac.com you can probably find information on where to buy them seperately....

[boredofeducation]

95. Worst tech support ever.

I service many different manufacturers and Apple is the worse I have ever dealt with. They go out of their way to not give you service. Please don't tell me that Mac Hardware never breaks, cause if you believe that, I got a bridge to sell you.

[LifeDuringWartime]

111. wow

apple has been consistently rated one of the best computer companies for tech support.

of the people i know, if they have had any experience at all with apple tech support, have had good experiences.

[boredofeducation]

117. They give you the run around

If you contact Apple directly, they will give you the run-around. I know, cause I have had first hand experience with them. But we take most of our stuff to a local shop, which is ok, but very slow on repairs. 2-3 weeks without computers these days is like murder for some of our users. I know some Mac users who like or "love" their Macintoshes, but dislike Apple, these are also users who have to deal with Apple BTW.

[Tripmann]

92. Can anybody tell me..

..the feasibility of whacking a couple of external hard drives onto this via usb2 and a hi end soundcard rack via firewire for a rock bottom price protools system??

Tripmann

[benburch]

93. Totally feasible.

I run White Rose on an eMac with three external FireWire drives. I don't use USB because my eMac is still USB-1.1 (The new ones are USB-2) and FireWire is much much faster.

[Tripmann]

110. Thanks,

My PC studio box does the business, but it's not a protools system no matter which way you look at it.

[LifeDuringWartime]

113. it will probably run pro tools very smoothly

althouh that depends partially on bus speed, which i havent seen yet.

[bullimiami]

160. lots of people running LE with a laptop and an mbox or 002

i dont see why this shouldnt do as well.

[politicat]

190. Firewire. Easy as an egg.

We've got three firewire external hard drives around - a 60GB, and 80 and a 160 - that we share between four laptops (2 500 iBooks and 2 1 GH Powerbooks). We don't use them all of the time since they're primarily backup.

Basically, the concept is: Turn laptop on. Turn firewire device on. Plug device in. When you're done, eject the firewire drive.

CompUSA sells them starting at $99, but if you have hard drives laying around (we did) you can buy a swappable firewire enclosure here or a million other places on the web: http://www.xpcgear.com/fwenclosure.html

I can't remember where we got ours, and we've had them so long they look kinda clunky and huge, but that's okay - they are nice platforms for our ever growing mini-bumper sticker collection. (This being how we tell them apart. My backup drive has "It's your hell, you burn in it" and "Love Thy First Amendment"; Mr. Pcat's has various logos from various tech stores and the 160 is a LaCie, so it looks different.)

Pcat

[goclark]

129. Would it be good for Seniors?

My mom has a vision problem but she wants to play bridge and free cell on her own computer.

[boredofeducation]

132. I couldn't see why not

Just get her a good quality monitor and a friend keyboard and mouse and she should be all set. The nice thing about the Mini Mac is that you can choose the monitor type and size. CRTs are real cheap right now, and LCDs are comming down in price. I have seen 19" CRTs for 150 at a big box store.

[TheDonkey]

139. Good for Apple, earnings have been an explosion since the iPod frenzy

I'm still eyeing up the new sexy iMacs but this Mac Mini is a good step in the right direction for a stylish cheap computer. eMacs are also pretty cheap and include monitor and keyboard.

[boredofeducation]

143. Yep iPods are now a household name, good work

The new super small 100 dollar ipod on the market, they will do better. To bad they did not release that before x-mas, would have been done great for parents who did not want to spend $300 for an ipod for their kids.

[meisje]

140. Anyone who hates the Mac is a Freeper!

So Blah!

[boredofeducation]

142. Very uneducated

That is very uneducated response.

[htuttle]

146. Actually, I think Rush Limbaugh still uses a Mac -- he always used to

Of course, Steve Jobs' politics give him TERRIBLE heartburn...

Good for Steve. :)

[Cronus Protagonist]

155. Perfect size for a doorstop

I'm just saying....

:)




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[mrbassman03]

159. Yeah, but unlike a PC, it will never be used as a doorstop...

Seriously, go compare this to a sim. priced PC and tell me what you'd rather have.

[LeftCoast]

164. This is the Mac I've been waiting for

I can hardly wait till it's available. :D

[eleonora]

168. I have a 20 inch monitor just sitting here collecting dust

waiting to be used! (My old G3's motherboard fried). I'm on an emac now, with no problems whatsoever. This Mac Mini is So tempting!