Think there might have been a little FRAUD in Ohio? LOOK AT THIS!!

[ElementaryPenguin]

Holy shit!!

http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

[bear425]

1. Please email this to Bev Harris at [email protected]

right away!

[Dark]

I emailed it to BBV.org earlier today.

I think that several people need to send it to foreign media, such as the BBC and El Mundo from Spain. I don't know the emails for news leads such as these, so I can't help there.

[redsoxliberal]

2. i Saw that... could it be provisional or absentee?

[YellowDoginthehouse]

4. Well, if it is...

Then there are 90,000 provisionals JUST in Cuyahoga County.

So that kinda makes you doubt the idea that there were only 150,000 provisionals statewide, eh?

Something rotten in Ohio, I say.

[redsoxliberal]

14. oh, I agree completely, just playing devil's advocate

anyhow, I just read that there were 24,000 provisionsal in Cuyahoga.... so perhaps it's absenteee, but more likely, something is very wrong in Ohio.

[Lalock]

75. You have no idea...

I was an election official in Cuyahoga County. My precinct was in the same room as 5 other precincts, and no one in the room had any idea how to correctly fill out a provisional ballot. Finally an election inspector came to our site at about 3:30 in the afternoon and explained the proper procedure.

By that time, 9 of our 11 provisional ballots had already been cast and were unchangeable. And wrong. They would be thrown away.

And there were 5 other precincts in the room with us who made the same mistakes.

The problem was that the provisional ballot procedure was being challenged up to and including election day. Some of the people who had been working the polls for years were saying one thing, and a memo from the Board of Elections said something else, and our training manuals said something different from those two.

It was a HUGE mess.

--Lisa

[newyawker99]

55. Hi YellowDoginthehouse!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[dbonds]

5. Don't think so

That was the number of votes compared to registered voters. Even provisional or absentee would have to be a registered voter.

[TheDebbieDee]

12. Yes, but the Provisional voter could be registered........

in one of the other precincts and therefore not included on the role of voters for the precinct named.

[mdhunter]

15. But provisionals could have been registered in another county,

not the one in which they actually voted.

[juajen]

33. I thought the rule in Ohio was that provisional votes had to be cast

in the place where you were registered? Or something like that?

[TheDebbieDee]

6. Could be Provisional, but defintely not Absentee Ballots.......

Absentee voters would already be included in the count of registered voters for that precinct.

[dbonds]

20. Percentage of provisionals not registered

I was under the impression that 90% of provisionals would turn out to be valid. If that number is correct and they voted in the correct precinct, we are talking at least 10 times the over-vote for the provisional ballot count - not too likely. Voting in the wrong precinct could account for some if they are provisionals, but in that case are we getting in the area of the butterfly ballot and too dumb to vote spin.

[LisaL]

7. Provisional ballots are not counted until Nov 11.

So, you can not have more votes than there are registered voters.
It's not possible, even people who voted absentee are registered voters.

[mdhunter]

10. The number of provisional votes have been counted, just not who for.

[LisaL]

17. In Florida, they didn't count the numbers of provisional ballots.

An election official said they have been throwing them out "by a ton".
What makes you think they counted them in OH?

[mdhunter]

9. No and yes. (m)

Absentee voters are registered, so they're reflected in the registered total, so they couldn't account for the increase.

Provisionals are more likely. The Ohio SOS released the numbers of the provisionals cast in each county. Cross index the lists. I suspect there will remain more votes in some counties even after the provisionals are accounted for.

[City Lights]

23. OH SOS site shows 24,788 provisional ballots issued in this county.

FWIW.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/index.html

[lebkuchen]

31. Go to the Cuyahoga County webpage provided at the original link

"Election results posted at this time are unofficial as they do not reflect provisional and overseas ballots."

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

[leyton]

34. Sometimes you can vote in a different precinct,

and you just do it on provisional. These could be valid.

[Justyce]

3. Unbelievable... Signed the petition on their site.

Edit: Or should I say, signed & forwarding their petition.

[shraby]

8. More info on this thread

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x30091>

[Lindsay]

11. Fraud or not, there are clearly

big problems there.

This is an absolutely unacceptable system of voting.

[progdonkey]

13. God, look at Woodmere Village...

1586% voter turnout?!

[redsoxliberal]

16. it's ok, republicans get to vote 1586 times!

[LisaL]

19. Most likely machines got to vote 1586 times.

These numbers are crazy. If that is for real, how are they going to explain them?
:crazy:

[johnnie]

21. Interesting

As of the census of 2000, there are 828 people, 424 households, and 186 families residing in the village.

http://www.fact-index.com/w/wo/woodmere__ohio.html

REGISTERED VOTERS - WOODMERE VIL 558
BALLOTS CAST WOODMERE VIL 885

[ElementaryPenguin]

25. Wer're busting this treasoness assholes!

Whether Kerry does or not!

[On the Road]

18. I Want to Find Out the Sources of Those Numbers

Here's a list of the locations reporting over 100% turnout:

  Precinct     	 Reg Voters  Ballots Cast Turnout
ST BD OF ED DST 11	   760 	 8,822 	1161%
CONGRESS DIST 11	 2,746 	 7,099 	259%
CONGRESS DIST 10	   570 	 1,382 	242%
CLEVELAND CSD        11,640 	 22,931 	197%
CLEVELAND             1,787 	 3,409 	191%
ST BD OF ED DST 05	 2,292 	 4,300 	188%
SENATE DIST 24	 8,142 	 13,512 	166%
SENATE DIST 25	 1,144 	 1,869 	163%
SENATE DIST 21	 7,806 	 12,108 	155%
SENATE DIST 23	 2,990 	 4,616 	154%
HOUSE DIST 17	 8,016 	 12,303 	153%
HOUSE DIST 16	 9,942 	 14,465 	145%
HOUSE DIST 08	 10,562 	 15,039 	142%
HOUSE DIST 18	 9,943 	 13,939 	140%
HOUSE DIST 12	 13,342 	 18,472 	138%
HOUSE DIST 09	 3,557 	 4,860 	137%
HOUSE DIST 07	 13,710 	 18,663 	136%
HOUSE DIST 10	 12,218 	 15,822 	129%
HOUSE DIST 15	 5,131 	 6,479 	126%
HOUSE DIST 11	 22,777 	 27,856 	122%
HOUSE DIST 13	 12,173 	 14,854 	122%
HOUSE DIST 14	 16,600 	 20,070 	121%
CONGRESS DIST 13	 10,072 	 11,982 	119%
PARMA	             2,764 	 3,145 	114%
LAKEWOOD              6,538 	 7,328 	112%
CLEVELAND HEIGHTS	 5,735 	 6,226 	109%
EUCLID	            5,735 	 6,226 	109%
CONGRESS DIST 14	 25,794 	 25,887 	100%
STRONGSVILLE	 16,902 	 16,917 	100%
STRONGSVILLE CSD	 14,491 	 14,458 	100%

Note that Cleveland Heights and Euclid look like duplicates of each other.

The site links to the Cuyahoga County site, which only has limited data. None of the outliers appear to be there. I also don't know the source of the registered voter information. It should be confirmed that those are the correct numbers from 2004. The site does not appear to source those particular data.

[masonfl]

22. Population of Woodmere, Ohio...

Population (year 2000): 828, Est.
Population in July 2002: 823 (-0.6% change)
Males: 415 (50.1%), Females: 413 (49.9%)

Votes cast, according to the Web site listed above: 8,854.

Is this site accurately reflecting published vote totals?

[Sparkle]

26. Out of that 8.854 how many were for * and how many were for Kerry?

[Tesibria]

24. ??? nothing shows up on the page ??? nt

[mountainvue]

30. I get a blank page as well. n/t

[idiosyncratic]

27. Email this to Keith Olberman . . . he's the only one talking

about this so far.

Read This, then send emails

[yojon]

28. Excel file

Penguin-
This is fascinating. Is there someplace you can post the excel .xls file of this? Would be interesting to work on it a bit.

[newyawker99]

56. Hi yojon!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sergei kirov]

29. votes in ohio

If you go to the board of elections in many counties, the number of registered voters are shown. If you then compare this with population over 18 using US census data many counties are showing over 90% of their population as registered. This number seems unbelievable. Cuyahoga county shows 98% registered. I think more than 2% are non citizens. Warren county is over 90% even if factoring in population growth and Hamilton county is at 96%. If you adjust turnout percentages for a more plausible number of registered voters, ballot box stuffing seems likely.

[lebkuchen]

32. Someone did the math on another thread, adding the overvotes

for Cuyahoga County alone: 92,000!

Kerry "lost" Ohio by something like 130,000.

Now, how many went for Kerry and how many for Bush?

[spotbird]

41. People move and their registration stays at their old address.

It doesn't surprise me that the number of registered seems excessive. What is incomprehensible is that more people voted than lived in a county.

[newyawker99]

57. Hi sergei kirov!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[pdx_prog]

35. A few of these spread out....

wouldn't be so obvious to most people....they would just write them off as problems. Add them up across the state and you have swayed an election.

[PatsFan2004]

36. Did Ohio allow early voting? In some states, voters noticed

that they could vote again on election day because of lax procedures.

[elaineb]

37. Before we get too excited...

I'm not sure who put together the original web page, but I randomly checked one of the precincts (Mayfield Village) against the Cuyahoga County Board of Election's canvass report, which can be found here:

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/canvas.htm

As best I can tell, the person who put together the web site cited at the top of this thread has the number of registered voters correct for Mayfield Village (2764) but not the number of ballots cast (according to the Board of Elections, it was 1760, not 3145).

Believe me, I'd like to think the rest of his figures are correct, but I'm too discouraged to keep looking further. Anyone else want to pick a precinct in which the ballots cast were supposedly greater than 100%? Or maybe somebody could even double-check my figures from the Cuyahoga County BOE canvass report. It's a huge text file to look through!

Also, I suppose it's possible that whoever put the web site together had the figures correct at the time he/she put the page together, since the canvass report as of today has a "run date" of 11/8/04.

By the way, I'm new here. HOWDY! I haven't made anyone's acquaintance yet, but I can't tell you what a wonderful oasis this is after last Tuesday.

[Iceburg]

39. Can Ohio voters vote in other precincts without

using a provisional ballot? If yes, are there any restrictions such as they must vote within their county?

[lizzieforkerry]

44. NO!

judges ruled before the election that a provisional could only be voted in the persons precinct. I was a challenger and in my precinct they were very strict about this. We had to send people to the correct precinct and then they cast their ballots, either regular if they were on the list or provisional if they were not.

[yojon]

42. Ohio data analysis (stinky)

Here is a list of registered voters and votes cast in each district sorted by the ratio of voters registered/votes cast. I have included only the counties where the numeber of votes cast exceeds the number of voters registered. Dont know if the county permits cross voting.

The last number in each entry is the percentage of votes cast to eligable voters. The list is sorted by this percentage.

Things get pretty crazy at the bottom of the list (Woodmere and Highland Hills Villages) where ~700 voters are registered and ~8000 votes are cast.

Somehow this does not pass my sniff test......



REGISTERED VOTERS - SOUTH EUCLID 16902 BALLOTS CAST SOUTH EUCLID 16917 100.1

REGISTERED VOTERS - NORTH OLMSTED 25794 BALLOTS CAST NORTH OLMSTED 25887 100.4

REGISTERED VOTERS - INDEPENDENCE 5735 BALLOTS CAST INDEPENDENCE 6226 108.6

REGISTERED VOTERS - INDEPENDENCE LSD 5735 BALLOTS CAST INDEPENDENCE LSD 6226 108.6

REGISTERED VOTERS - OLMSTED FALLS 6538 BALLOTS CAST OLMSTED FALLS 7328 112.1

REGISTERED VOTERS - MAYFIELD VIL 2764 BALLOTS CAST MAYFIELD VIL 3145 113.8

REGISTERED VOTERS - UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS 10072 BALLOTS CAST UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS 11982 119.0

REGISTERED VOTERS - ROCKY RIVER 16600 BALLOTS CAST ROCKY RIVER 20070 120.9

REGISTERED VOTERS - MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS 12173 BALLOTS CAST MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS 14854 122.0

REGISTERED VOTERS - BEDFORD CSD 22777 BALLOTS CAST BEDFORD CSD 27856 122.3
REGISTERED VOTERS - PEPPER PIKE 5131 BALLOTS CAST PEPPER PIKE 6479 126.3

REGISTERED VOTERS - WARRENSVILLE CSD 12218 BALLOTS CAST WARRENSVILLE HTS CSD 15822 129.5

REGISTERED VOTERS - BAY VILLAGE 13710 BALLOTS CAST BAY VILLAGE 18663 136.1

REGISTERED VOTERS - CHAGRIN FALLS VIL 3557 BALLOTS CAST CHAGRIN FALLS VIL 4860 136.6

REGISTERED VOTERS - FAIRVIEW PARK 13342 BALLOTS CAST FAIRVIEW PARK 18472 138.5

REGISTERED VOTERS - BEACHWOOD 9943 BALLOTS CAST BEACHWOOD 13939 140.2

REGISTERED VOTERS - WARRENSVILLE HEIGH 10562 BALLOTS CAST WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS 15039 142.4

REGISTERED VOTERS - BEDFORD 9942 BALLOTS CAST BEDFORD 14465 145.5

REGISTERED VOTERS - BROOKLYN 8016 BALLOTS CAST BROOKLYN 12303 153.5

REGISTERED VOTERS - MORELAND HILLS VIL 2990 BALLOTS CAST MORELAND HILLS VIL 4616 154.4

REGISTERED VOTERS - STRG WD3 7806 BALLOTS CAST STRG WD3 12108 155.1

REGISTERED VOTERS - BROOKLYN HEIGHTS V 1144 BALLOTS CAST BROOKLYN HEIGHTS VIL 1869 163.4

REGISTERED VOTERS - BEDFORD HEIGHTS 8142 BALLOTS CAST BEDFORD HEIGHTS 13512 166.0

REGISTERED VOTERS - SOLN WD6 2292 BALLOTS CAST SOLN WD6 4300 187.6

REGISTERED VOTERS - VALLEY VIEW VIL 1787 BALLOTS CAST VALLEY VIEW VIL 3409 190.8

REGISTERED VOTERS - ORANGE CSD 11640 BALLOTS CAST ORANGE CSD 22931 197.0

REGISTERED VOTERS - CUYAHOGA HEIGHTS V 570 BALLOTS CAST CUYAHOGA HEIGHTS VIL 1382 242.5

REGISTERED VOTERS - OAKWOOD VIL 2746 BALLOTS CAST OAKWOOD VIL 7099 258.5

REGISTERED VOTERS - HIGHLAND HILLS VIL 760 BALLOTS CAST HIGHLAND HILLS VIL 8822 1160.8

REGISTERED VOTERS - WOODMERE VIL 558 BALLOTS CAST WOODMERE VIL 8854 1586.7

[ElementaryPenguin]

51. Let's not LET the press ignore this!

Bastards!

:mad:

[goodboy]

54. Woodmere Village- 558 voters, 8854 ballots cast? This cannot

just be a result of "double voting"

Highland Hills?

Holy shit.

[CaptAhab]

45. Re: Before we get too excited...

I just checked the link that you posted, and it was 3145 votes that were "cast" in Mayfield Village according to line 19470:

10 = BALLOTS CAST MAYFIELD VIL 3,145

So you are the one who's in error.

[elaineb]

47. Thanks for noticing my error, CaptAhab

And believe me, I'm glad that I was mistaken!

Apparently, I wasn't looking far enough down the page of the canvass report. The 3,145 ballot count for Mayfield Village you correctly cited was on Page 0304 of the report, and the 1,760 ballot count I saw was further up on Page 0187. (Congressional/Senate District votes?) I knew I was way out of my league trying to decipher a canvass report, which is why I asked if someone could double-check what I found.

Thanks, CaptAhab.

[goodboy]

48. welcome to DU...hope your calculations are wrong..no offense.

:hi: :hi:

[elaineb]

49. My calculation was wrong, thank goodness

Thanks for the welcome, goodboy.

Yes, I read the canvass report wrong, I'm embarrassed to say (See Reply #47). I was praying to be wrong, in this case. Because I'm originally from Cleveland, and I'd LOVE Bush to have to give back the throne because of voting irregularities discovered there. But there are so many damned irregularities all over the freakin' country, that it's hard to say where the truth will first be found out. It's looking like possibly NH!

[goodboy]

50. Well, we know there were problems in several Ohio Counties...

If Cuyahoga is any indication of what happened elsewhere, bush can kiss his ass goodbye.

[newyawker99]

58. Hi elaineb!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[RememberTheCoup]

38. Has anyone e-mailed Cuyahoga BOE? Here is the e-mail address...

[email protected]

If anyone gets a response, please post it here.

[lizzieforkerry]

40. In Ohio the Reps sent an absentee ballot

to all of the Republicans in the state, most independants and anyone who was at one time registered. They were not marked in the precincts as having received a ballot and therefore they could vote twice. This is how so many extra votes got cast for Bush. They counted the absentee Tues night, except for ones from oversees. These will be included in the counting of the provisional which won't be counted until Nov 12. If only 5% double voted that is Bush's lead. This is how so many people appeared registered. They counting rep that have moved and allowing them to still vote in their old precincts. They are addresses to people outside of the precincts so it is obvious that those people should not be allowed to vote absentee.!!!!!!!!

[Cookie wookie]

43. A handcount and audit will catch this --

matching up the ballot with the registered voter lists.

Is Cobb going after a recount in Ohio?

[turbo_satan]

46. Question on party and vote breakdown...

Does anyone know what the ratio of Dems to Reps is in Highland Hills Vill and Windmere districts?

How about how the vote broke? Did the extra votes go to Bush or to Kerry? I'm interested in these two districts in particular because they showed the greatest over-voting percentages.

[goodboy]

52. Kick to the top, also forward to everyone you know...

:kick:

[JohnnyCougar]

53. HOLY SHIT

There needs to be an investigation.

[silvershadow]

59. I don't understand what is going on...why does this stuff

keep coming up but nobody is talking about it but us?

[Mister K]

61. Because there is nothing there to talk about

Many of these posts have been floating around here for days. Someone sees and creates a new thread.

There IS a problem with the sub-totals by city on this report. NOTHING MORE. If you look at the individual line number of ballots cast and registered voters, the numbers are in sync. If you look at the sub-totals on the report, there is a problem.

[Skinner]

63. Actually, there is a problem here.

From the ivillage web page:
http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

REGISTERED VOTERS - MAYFIELD VIL 2764
BALLOTS CAST MAYFIELD VIL 3145
113.78437

From the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections:
http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

REGISTERED VOTERS - MAYFIELD VIL 2764
BALLOTS CAST MAYFIELD VIL 3145

That's one. Feel free to check the rest. The numbers match. There were more ballots cast in Mayfield Village than there were registered voters.

Maybe there's an explanation for this. If there is, I'd like to hear it.

[Mister K]

64. Those are the Sub-Totals I am talking about

If you take a section of the raw data and compare it you will see...

REGISTERED VOTERS - MAYFIELD VIL 2764
REGISTERED VOTERS - MYVL WD1 670
REGISTERED VOTERS - MYVL WD2 668
REGISTERED VOTERS - MYVL WD3 817
REGISTERED VOTERS - MYVL WD4 609

The 2764 number is the TOTAL number of registered voters for MYVL (Mayfield Village).

Now look at the votes...

BALLOTS CAST MAYFIELD VIL 3145
BALLOTS CAST MYVL WD1 454
BALLOTS CAST MYVL WD2 442
BALLOTS CAST MYVL WD3 477
BALLOTS CAST MYVL WD4 387

The Ballots cast number should be 1760 but it is 3145. I have no idea how or why the sub-totals are wrong. Does this prove tampering? Maybe. Keep in mind that this us MY interpertation of the data. I could be wrong, but I have been going over reports like these over the past week and looking for errors.

[Skinner]

66. Ah... now I see. Good eye.

So, this looks like a math error. I guess it's too much to ask that the people who actually add up the votes double-check their arithmetic.

[Mister K]

67. I am drowning in this stuff SKINNER!

I really don't think that people added this thing up. It was more than likely done by computer. If the sub-totals were wrong then there are only two possibilities. The data changed. There is an error in the way the reports were sub-totaled. I would be more concerned if the sub-totals were much lower then the sum of the precincts. It would represent that votes were added after the reports were sub-totaled.

I matched the totals to the data on the CNN website and it looks right. The totals are representative of the raw Precinct data and not the sub-totals.

[elaineb]

71. I figured out the Mayfield Village total, but what does it mean?

First of all, instead of using the page:

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#0531

Use this page instead, and then go to the Nov. 2 Canvass Report:

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/canvas.htm

If you go to page 305 (page numbers are on right side), you'll see that the 1,760 ballot number is before adding the 1,385 absentee voters, which then totals 3,145 total ballots cast. So assuming the absentee voters are included in the registered voters, there apparently *were* more votes cast in Mayfield Village than registered voters, rather than a miscalculation at the BOE.

[elaineb]

73. By "miscalculation", I mean it wasn't just an error in adding the numbers

This obviously isn't an accidental miscalculation. Some kind of funny business is definitely going on here! :mad:

[Mister K]

74. THERE IS A PROBLEM! MY PREVIOUS POSTS WERE WRONG

Thanks elaineb.

Looking at the detail data. The total number of votes cast for Mayfield Village is 1760. The number of absentee votes is 1385 making the total vote count 3145. The number of registered voters for Mayfield is 2764.

The 3145 number is the Sub-Total on the report we have all be looking at which I thought was a miscalculation.

This leaves only one of two possibilites. People voted more then once or the numbers were altered.

[txindy]

82. This may be a math error, but we can't be certain, yet

We would need to add all of the subtotals and check them against the total. If not, that would be a good place for them to hide extra votes. The numbers are in plain sight, most people wouldn't think to actually add them up, themselves, to verify. They'd assume they are correct. We need to make certain they are. Considering everything we've seen that's coming out of Ohio, I'm starting with a Missouri-like 'Show Me' attitude. Ohio needs to prove they're right. ;)

[LynzM]

62. If you mean that no one in the 'mainstream' is talking...

Some people say that they are being hushed. Some feel that they are so under the thumb of the administration that they don't dare question. Some probably don't have enough of the 'strange coincidences' linked together to notice or care about a larger pattern. This is why we, as DUers, have to keep pushing this story, to the media, our family, our friends...

[Skinner]

60. Here's the actual page for Cuyahoga County

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

[molly]

68. Thanks - I couldn't get to the other link

[TahitiNut]

84. When I put that data in an Excel spreadsheet, I see 97,489 ballots ...

... cast above the respective number of registered voters.

4,953 more ballots were cast in BAY VILLAGE than there are registered voters (13,710).
3,996 more ballots were cast in BEACHWOOD than there are registered voters (9,943).
4,523 more ballots were cast in BEDFORD than there are registered voters (9,942).
5,079 more ballots were cast in BEDFORD CSD than there are registered voters (22,777).
5,370 more ballots were cast in BEDFORD HEIGHTS than there are registered voters (8,142).
4,287 more ballots were cast in BROOKLYN than there are registered voters (8,016).
725 more ballots were cast in BROOKLYN HEIGHTS VIL than there are registered voters (1,144).
1,303 more ballots were cast in CHAGRIN FALLS VIL than there are registered voters (3,557).
812 more ballots were cast in CUYAHOGA HEIGHTS VIL than there are registered voters (570).
5,130 more ballots were cast in FAIRVIEW PARK than there are registered voters (13,342).
8,062 more ballots were cast in HIGHLAND HILLS VIL than there are registered voters (760).
491 more ballots were cast in INDEPENDENCE than there are registered voters (5,735).
491 more ballots were cast in INDEPENDENCE LSD than there are registered voters (5,735).
381 more ballots were cast in MAYFIELD VIL than there are registered voters (2,764).
2,681 more ballots were cast in MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS than there are registered voters (12,173).
1,626 more ballots were cast in MORELAND HILLS VIL than there are registered voters (2,990).
93 more ballots were cast in NORTH OLMSTED than there are registered voters (25,794).
4,353 more ballots were cast in OAKWOOD VIL than there are registered voters (2,746).
790 more ballots were cast in OLMSTED FALLS than there are registered voters (6,538).
11,291 more ballots were cast in ORANGE CSD than there are registered voters (11,640).
1,348 more ballots were cast in PEPPER PIKE than there are registered voters (5,131).
3,470 more ballots were cast in ROCKY RIVER than there are registered voters (16,600).
2,008 more ballots were cast in SOLN WD6 than there are registered voters (2,292).
15 more ballots were cast in SOUTH EUCLID than there are registered voters (16,902).
4,302 more ballots were cast in STRG WD3 than there are registered voters (7,806).
1,910 more ballots were cast in UNIVERSITY HEIGHTS than there are registered voters (10,072).
1,622 more ballots were cast in VALLEY VIEW VIL than there are registered voters (1,787).
4,477 more ballots were cast in WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS than there are registered voters (10,562).
3,604 more ballots were cast in WARRENSVILLE HTS CSD than there are registered voters (12,218).
8,296 more ballots were cast in WOODMERE VIL than there are registered voters (558).


Now, I'm willing to believe that "CSD" means "Consolidated School District" and covers a voting area already counted under another label (e.g. WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS and WARRENSVILLE HTS CSD overlap). Thus, what we have isn't a simple error. It percolates to multiple voting jurisdictions.

[cthrumatrix]

65. of course the media CHOOSES not to look at fraud.... who is telling

them not to report it?

[rodeodance]

72. no recount for Nadar (for now)

I finanlly found this in print--a foreign paper

To view the contents on NashuaTelegraph.com, go to: http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2004111060040

[The White Tree]

69. Also what about precincts that had lower turnout?

I'm throwing this out there after glancing at this web page and some of the precincts that reported. Note I am no expert at this I just wanted to make this point and maybe someone who understands this can validate or negate what I am saying. Please do so.

If I understand correctly total turnout in Cuyahoga County was 66% of registered voters.

If you look at the precincts in Cleveland (which I am making the assumption would mostly vote democratic) it would appear that the turnout was in many cases much lower then the average for the county.

I counted 17 Cleveland precincts where voter turnout was 10% below the 66% average for the county. In some cases it was as low as 39%.

Could these precincts have had votes dropped intentionally to balance out the over reporting in the other precincts?

If so could that account for many many more democratic votes that were not correctly counted?

It might be interesting to cross match the number of votes over 75%turnout in the precincts where turnout was over 75% versus the lack off votes in precincts where turnout was under 55% to see how closely they match up.

[Chimpanzee]

70. has anyone sent this to Olbermann?

[donkeyotay]

76. I've been checking this in an Excel spreadsheet

Yes, some precincts had huge overvotes, while some precincts had turnouts much lower than expected. The average I have from the offical totals (ballots cast + absentees cast / registered) is 74% voter turnout.

Yet, if you look at the votes cast for president, 63,577 voters didn't bother to vote in that race, so 9% of voters didn't vote for president.

The breakdown is shown as about 33% for Bush and 66% for Kerry. That's a low republican vote, so I'd like to know more about this county.

The early line seems to be that, at minimum, a whole bunch of election workers sent in returns that they should have known were wrong, ie, more than they had registered voters. But I still don't understand where these overvotes would have gone since Bush doesn't seem to have done particularly well in this county - unless 33% was high for this county.

[elaineb]

77. In answer to your ? about Cuyahoga County

At least judging by 2000 election results, 33% Bush and 66% for Kerry in 2004 is probable.

Out of 590,473 ballots cast in 2000:

Bush/Cheney 192,099 (33.42%)
Gore/Lieberman 359,913 (62.62%)
Nader/LaDuke 16,956 (2.95%)

(doesn't include the few other candidates)

[Nicholas_J]

78. This is not the first case of such a situation occuring

In Palm Beach County almost 89,000 more votews were cast than voters available to cast them It is more than obvious now that this electiopnwent far from smoothly,, and thatthe media is actively involved in coveringit up.

I think is is going nbeyong the neeed for recounts and other such methods to save democracy in America, or at lest to establish it, as it really appears that it never has existed. It is likely that for the over 200 years of our existance as a nation, those in power have abused that power in one way or another in orcder to seize power whenever they were able to.

All over Florida, voting machine anomalies have been reported., suchas the Palm Beach problem but nothing has been done to investigate these problems at all. In counties all over Florida, accordinbg to results in amny small co9unties, an average 400 perent increse in Republican voters has been recorded, but Democratic voters have seen a -60 percent decrease in voters. Which dos not fit with the numbers that were coming up in early voting estimates. In trhe fifty plus counties in which such dvoter fluctuation was reported (that is the differnce between expected voter turnout and the turnout recorded on the machines) optical scna equipment was used in every one of these counties. Among the problems expereienced by optical scna machines in large southern counties were reports of machines tthat did not appear to be adding democratic votes to the total tally,, and machies which appeared to actualy subtract democratic votes from the total tally. There have been almost no reports of similar similar failure to count Republican votes.

[pointsoflight]

79. Add this to the oddities in Cuyahoga...

Cuyahoga county--where Cleveland resides--was critical to this election. The Kerry campaign was counting on this county to carry Ohio, and had that happened, he would've won the majority of electoral votes. What happened in Coyahoga county? Many things have already been reported, but here's another that I haven't seen talked about....

Late into the night when Bush was leading in Ohio with 90% of precincts reporting, the democratic party was still optimistic of pulling out a win because they were still expecting huge numbers of additional votes from Cleveland that they thought would give them the lead. The votes never materialized. What happened?

55 precincts in Cleveland show a turnout of less than 40%. Several show a turnout of less than 20%, and one even shows a turnout of 7%. That's right, SEVEN PERCENT. Despite reports of very strong ground efforts, record turnouts, and long lines throughout Cleveland, 60, 70, 80, even over 90% of the people who took the time to register didn't bother to show up? Or did they? Was there massive voter suppression is these precincts? Were voters in these precincts forced to vote via provisional ballots, ballots that are not audited in Ohio (so that we don't know the actual number cast)?

We need to get a handle on what happened in Cleveland. In the 55 precincts I mention, 84.3% of the counted votes went to Kerry, 15.1% to Bush. We're talking about many thousands of votes here, just in Cleveland.

Please pass this along--I don't see it being reported anywhere.

Here's the raw data from Cuyahoga County for confirmation:

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/boe/results/history/2004/1...

[elaineb]

80. You're right...That's something to look into further

Very sharp of you and White Tree (Reply #69) to notice this. Did you happen to note down the precincts which displayed this very low turnout? If you could post a few of them, maybe I could compare the raw ballot numbers and percentages to the 2000 election numbers.

[Skinner]

81. I received an interesting email about this.

If you look at some of the posts higher up in this thread, you will note that there is a discrepancy between the total votes reported from a precinct, and the sum of the sub-districts in that precinct. This email from a lurker shows that the "markup" in some of the counties is exactly the same....

From: XXXXXXX
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: Cuyahoga County

I have looked at the data posted by the county, and saw something really unusual - different municipalities have the exact same number of "extra" votes.

I sent the following commentary to the author of the original article:
------------------
Looking over the posted turnout data, I have several observations that you may already have made:

* Typically, the "extra" votes appear in the totals for the municipality. Where the municipality is broken down by ward, the sum of the wards does not match the total for the municipality.

* If we use the sum of the wards as the turnout, the numbers are reasonable (about 60%). I suspect the ward counts are accurate.

* The sum of the wards and the reported total for the municipality DIFFERS BY THE SAME AMOUT IN MULTIPLE MUNICIPALITIES. That is to say, differnent towns have the exact same number of "extra" votes.

Examples:

Bedford
registered voters: 9942
votes cast - municipality: 14465 (145% turnout)
votes cast - (sum of wards): 5912 (59% turnout)
difference between ward and municipality: 8553

Warrensville Heights
registered voters: 10562
votes cast - municipality: 15039 (142% turnout)
votes cast - (sum of wards): 6486 (61% turnout)
difference between ward and municipality: 8553

Fairview Park
registered voters: 13342
votes cast - municipality: 18472(110% turnout)
votes cast - (sum of wards): 8524 (64% turnout)
difference between ward and municipality: 9948

Westlake
registered voters: 25627
votes cast - municipality: 25173 (98% turnout)
votes cast - (sum of wards): 15225 (59% turnout)
difference between ward and municipality: 9948

I do not know whether recounts have been formally requested, if results data broken down by ward has been requested from the county or state.

[elaineb]

83. Uh-oh

See the updated version of the page that seems to have caused all this consternation:

http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

The author seems to have talked to someone at the county level and was given some sort of explanation to account for the odd numbers, having to do with the number of absentee ballots.

[ailsagirl]

85. I smell a RAT

[ailsagirl]

86. Do you realize if this is true...

that this "administration" has effectively destroyed our democracy?? This is frightening stuff and, if allowed to go through, sounds the death knell for future elections. I never would have believed it possible that this gang would be allowed to do whatever the hell it wants while we sit helplessly by.

bastards