I'm thinking that right about now, our Pres realizes what a garden path Rahm led him down

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

I am purely speculating, but I think the big push for "triangulation" "centrism" "bi-partisanship" came from Rahm who doesn't understand that it is NOT the Clinton era and we have a whole different setting going on now. He is not helping/guiding President Obama in "how it is done", but more "how it WAS done" which involves a lot of back door corporate dealmaking and concessions to a shrinking minority party that are frankly just not necessary today. Rahm tried to stuff all the "change" under the carpet and just do business as usual.


I do believe that because he is reaping a lot of well-earned outrage from his base (NOT the DLC and DINOS) that President Obama is most-likely reevaluating the way things have gone down so far and what kind of Presidency he is going to have - one that compromises to a virulent and ignorant minority, financed on by industry dollars, or one that truly attempts to serve the welfare of the citizenry. I would say that all the rubber is hitting the road RIGHT NOW.

[Ken Burch]

1. +3,000!

Centrism means, and has always meant, defeat.

[Phx_Dem]

9. Worked pretty well for BIll Clinton. On the other hand when

was the last time a progressive got elected President? Never. And probably never will.

[Ken Burch]

10. FDR and LBJ were arguably progressives(FDR in '36 especially)

n/t.

[Phx_Dem]

17. LBJ a progressive? Don't think so.

[avaistheone1]

23. Who has a better history on passing civil rights and social legislation than LBJ?

His war record was not good. But he was head and shoulders above other presidents on the impact he has had on civil rights and on the social legislation that lifted millions out of poverty in this country.

I say LBJ was a actually very progressive particularly in retrospect.

[Ken Burch]

21. Obama was elected as a progressive. He did not run AGAINST the left

And the left has never deserved this party's hostility. If this party had treated progressives and what they stood for with respect in the 90's, there'd have been no Nader campaign. The defeats of the Seventies and Eighties were not the left's fault, and it's not like there were inherently superior anti-progressive candidates who could have won if only "the left" hadn't unfairly stopped them.

John Glenn or Fritz Hollings would both have lost 49 states against Reagan, as would any other Democrat(we were doomed that year no matter what).

Dukakis was the conservative wing of the party's anti-Jesse candidate. There weren't any good non-progressive candidates running that year.

Why do you have such contempt for progressives anyway? If it weren't for us, there'd have never been a Civil Rights act and we'd still have troops in Vietnam.

[treestar]

33. The country was ready for it at the time

so obviously it had become a centrist position at the time.

[Ken Burch]

36. Oh Puhleeze.....

The country was won to a pro-Civil Rights position by the heroic struggle(and in some cases, the violent deaths)of hundreds of thousands of left activists of all races who put their bodies on the line for justice. Please don't insult their memory by saying "well, it's time had just come", an attitude that implies that all those people did was for nothing.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. But the enforcement involved dogs and troops

so it was not all that center, and the whole nation is still not ready for it. When inter racial marriage became legal after Loving v Virginia, huge majorities of Americans opposed that ruling and such marriages and they opposed them with great conviction. No one waited for the haters to catch up, because they never do.

[avaistheone1]

38. That's correct.

[treestar]

32. The center means the center of the body politic

It will always look moderate and reasonable.

[avaistheone1]

39. As Jim Hightower says - The only thing that is in the middle of the road is roadkill.

[ProSense]

2. Obama knows Rahm is not the President. n/t

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. I know that. But Rahm was supposed to be the "get it done" guy

I feel pretty sure that the Chief of Staff is pretty deeply embedded in all the goings on and gives a LOT of advice. Rahm had previous White House experience, DCCC experience, Congressional experience - I see him as a great font of information and strategy.

Personally, I think much of what has happened and the way it has happened probably has a lot of Rahm's fingerprints all over it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. All these posts about Rahm are really borderline, IMO

Obama is plenty smart on his own, and the notion that he's being led around by the nose by the likes of Rahm Emanuel are really starting to sound a lot like borderline racism.

[AspenRose]

30. I never thought about it that way, but you do have a point

Dangerously close to something you'd find at Stormfront or something

[chimpymustgo]

34. It's the ultimate EXCUSISM. But it really does make the President look foolish rather than provide

cover. Who's the DECIDER?

[avaistheone1]

40. What a bunch of bull. When people said that Bush was being led around by nose by Cheney

borderline racism too?

[Laelth]

4. The internet has made all the difference.

"We the People" had no clue what was going on behind the scenes when the Clintons tried to enact health care reform. Now we are watching like a hawk ... and publishing online, and calling, and e-mailing ... we are insisting that our representatives listen to us in ways we never could before.

Believe it or not, "We the People" are more powerful now than we ever have been in the history of this nation. We may not get what we want, but we will be heard. And we do have some power, now, to shape the debate. The internet has given us a new nation and a new world.

:dem:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--sloppy proofreading.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. I completely agree with you.

It's giving us incredibly powerful research and memory and anti-BS tools. The world has completely changed and people DO have the power if they just realize it.

We have the entire media against us, yet often the blogosphere leads in what stories predominate over time. I absolutely believe that we can be a very powerful influnence in shaping the discussion and have been.

[treestar]

35. Which augurs well for the future

The older generation are the ones who listen to the news on TV - translate Fox.

The younger prefers the internet!

Part of how Obama got elected and McInsane lost - McDope did not make good use of the internet.

[phleshdef]

5. People are blowing this Rahm BS way out of proportion, this isn't fucking "Bush and Rove"

[cliffordu]

29. Ding ding ding, we have a winnah!!!

After 8 years of the ventriloquist and his dummy it's hard not to think that's the SOP in the white house.....

[DrDan]

7. oh good Lord . . . so Rahm is the problem . . .

I guess this is what Gibbs means by "silly season" . . .

[Clio the Leo]

13. It's part of one of my favorite Obama phenomenons ......

..... sometimes we dont want to blame him for anything .... it's not him doing the "bad" things, it's Rahm or Geitnher or whomever. Now, in a way it's a good thing because it speaks to his personal favorability, if the WH is doing something we dont like, it's not the President, it can't be ..... it has to be someone around him and he's too darned nice to tell them no.

Now, dont get me wrong, I think everyone knows that *I* think the man poops flower blossoms ..... but part of my unabashed devotion requires me to also trust his ability to choose the best people to surround himself with AND recognize that .... ya know .... he's the decider and all.

If we think that Rahm is the problem or Geithner or whomever, then we imply that the President is an incompetent push over.

Barack Obama is none of those things.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

19. It comes from a very personal disconnect

If you bought in heavily (as I and most people around here did) during the campaign to the rhetoric and charisma of Barack Obama who seemed to actually be a completely different type of leader the like of which we had not seen in decades (Kennedyesque) and if you BELIEVED that he would end the war, follow the Rule of Law, end FISA, bring rational and universal healthcare to us all, etc. at some point you are left with some very very uncomfortable choices:

1. Am I an absolute fool for buying in and believing? - leading to despair and cynicism

2. Is Barack Obama a man who says one thing and then does another (repeatedly)? - leading to despair and cynicism

Or:

3. Is Barack Obama a good man and an able leader who surrounded himself with horrible advisors? - leading to a conclusion which allows for some change for the better to still occur if he would only get rid of all the bad advisors. Some despair, but not quite as much cynicism and a little optimism is still allowed to exist


3 is the temporary safe harbor that one wants to hang out in for as long as possible until forced into either choice 1 or 2.



Now, that's just me. There are probably people out there who think that every single thing he has done is just fine and dandy and don't have ANY choices confronting them.

[avaistheone1]

41. Brilliant analysis Phoebe.

[Clio the Leo]

8. lol does that mean Rahm ghost wrote "Audacity"

.... specifically chapter 1 in which the President (if we may presume he is the one speaking lol) clearly outlines what he's been doing for the last seven months?

You do recall that chapter, right? ;)

[Enrique]

12. so how long are you going to blame Rahm?

for eight years?

If he's realizing Rahm's way is wrong, you will expect Obama to get rid of him, correct, or will you make some other excuse for Obama?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

15. LOL! This would mark the first time I have ever been called an apologist!

I need to revel in that for just a moment. :)

Actually I just about always hold President Obama responsible for what happens in his administration. I filled my OP with all kinds of warnings that it was purely my own conjecture, speculation, etc. I just think that things must be getting to the really "interesting" stage in the White House as the honeymoon is wearing off and we are coming up to the seminal issue possibly/probably of this entire first term.

[ShortnFiery]

14. The only things in "the center of the road" are road kill and yellow lines.

Take a stand! I'm so sick of hearing people say how "moderate" they are ... be proud of being a liberal and/or a progressive.

I honestly believe that Jesus was the original LIBERAL. :-)

long-haired radical socialist Jew


Well Jesus was a homeless lad
With an unwed mother and an absent dad
And I really don't think he would have gotten that far
If Newt, Pat and Jesse had followed that star

Refrain: So let's all sing out praises to
That long-haired radical socialist Jew

When Jesus taught the people he
Would never charge a tuition fee
He just took some fishes and some bread
And made up free school lunches instead
So let's all sing out praises to....

He healed the blind and made them see
He brought the lame folks to their feet
Rich and poor, any time, anywhere
Just pioneering that free health care
So let's all sing out praises to....

Jesus hung with a low-life crowd
But those working stiffs sure did him proud
Some were murderers, thieves and whores
But at least they didn't do it as legislators
So let's all sing out praises to....

(Modulate to A)

Jesus lived in troubled times
the religious right was on the rise
Oh what could have saved him from his terrible fate?
Separation of church and state.
So let's all sing out praises to....

Sometimes I fall into deep despair
When I hear those hypocrites on the air
But every Sunday gives me hope
When pastor, deacon, priest, and pope
Are all singing out their praises to
Some long-haired radical socialist Jew.

They're singing out their praises to..oooo..oooo..
Some long-haired radical socialist Jew.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. Basically we are watching a complete replay of the 93-94 disaster.

Democrats tripping over themselves to come up with an endlessly complicated proposal that avoids simply extending medicare to everyone for the sole purpose of keeping their corporate pals happy, and then getting endlessly reamed by the well funded media enabled opposition - well funded by the same corporate pals our idiot party leadership set out to ingratiate themselves to with their complicated impossible to understand or support schemes.

It is Ground Hog Day in Washington.

Kiss another 16 years goodbye.

Or perhaps Obama can salvage this mess.

[KoKo]

31. Sadly, it seems so. n/t

[PopSixSquish]

18. I Think Mr. Emanuel Would be Surprised to Learn that He Controls the President

based on everything I've heard and read about their relationship...

[undeterred]

20. Rahm is efficient like a thug is efficient.

[avaistheone1]

22. True.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

24. In relation to "this Rahm BS" and "all these posts" related to Rahm

I looked through the posts of the past few days and saw very few if any concerning Rahm, Rahm's positions, Rahm's influence, etc. so
I wasn't aware that I was jumping on a "Rahm's the problem" bandwagon. Metaphysical question: Can you jump on a bandwagon that you neither see or hear?

Completely new is the idea that discussing the influence of a Presidential advisor is "racist" since it implies the President can't think on his own. Congratulations to that poster for the "How Can I make Race an Issue When It Is Clearly Not" Award.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freddie mertz]

26. Wishful thinking. Obama is the president, not Rahm.

And I think we all realize that responsibility for his administrations actions belongs at the top.

"The buck stops here," as it were...

[Mudoria]

27. I imagine Rahm does exactly what the President tells him to do..

[saltpoint]

28. Rahm wouldn't be where he is unless the president wanted him to be there.

I think there's a blind spot on DU about Rahm's role.

Rahm is fierce and Rahm is fiercely loyal to the president. He plays rough, as politics is often rough, and Obama has him in the starting line-up because he's not afraid to throw some elbows under the basket.

[LittleBlue]

37. Rahm has been a disaster; he needs to go ASAP

Obama's entire strategy team has led him down in the polls at breakneck speed. Time for them to find new careers.

[Amos Moses]

42. Is Rahm Obama's brain?

You may be onto something.

[Jennicut]

45. Yes, Rahm's brain has been transplanted into him like Frankenstein's monster!

Seriously, I think Obama is a big boy and any choices we don't like need to rest squarely on his shoulders, including the choice to pick Rahm as COS.

[democracy1st]

46. plus all those Goldman Sachs appointments as well

[Justitia]

43. I hope so. Rahm is certainly undermining him w/all his leaked "anonymous" quotes BS.

He used to pull the same bullshit during the Clinton admin, and at least this time the folks w/the long memories are calling him out by name on this.

Folks who don't want to believe that Rahm would have no problem undercutting Obama in print don't know Rahm (or have short memories).

He is making the president look weak & ineffectual with his bullshit and we should be calling him on it every chance we get.

There are many long-time, reputable journalists (& former Clinton staffers) who are naming names here - don't ignore them.

And yes, it is ultimately the president's job to squash him like a bug. I just hope it isn't too late.

[GoCubsGo]

47. I'm getting sick of all the speculating...

It's bad enough that all we are getting from the MSM is speculation. Why pollute this place with it, as well? In some ways, this IS just like the Clinton Administration. Same lies, smears and thuggery from republicans--only worse, because they are throwing in not-all-that-subtle racism. If Rahm is guilty of anything, it's not fighting back the way Clinton did. "How it WAS done" allowed ol' Bill to come out it all on top. He still has a 60+% approval rating, despite being impeached. The rethugs are at what, 20% or so?

[TheKentuckian]

48. Obama is the President, Rahm works for him.

It's not right to put the ball in Rahm's court when the President makes the calls.