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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 03:36 PM
Original message
Hillary's apologists (Krugman) and backers using threats to demand she be given the VP slot

The Hacktastic Krugman

A few months ago, Paul Krugman admonished Obama supporters, accusing them (without empirical evidence) of being full of vitriolic hatred towards Mrs. Clinton. In the same paragraph, he implicitly compared Obama to Bush (could there be a more...vitriolic comparison for a Democrat?).

Krugman was incensed that some Obama supporters might not support Clinton in the fall:

I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again.

What’s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of “Clinton rules” — the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent.

Of course, shortly afterward, the empirical evidence available pointed to the exact opposite phenomenon. And the phrase "Clinton Rules," rather than referring to the double standard set by the press when it covers the Clintons, became more descriptive of the Clinton's effort to change the metric every time they were losing.

Krugman embraces these "Clinton Rules" with abandon. Notice the difference between the way he greets the feelings of Clinton supporters who are reluctant to switch to Mr. Obama:

Mrs. Clinton needs to do her part: she needs to be careful not to act as a spoiler during what’s left of the primary, she needs to bow out gracefully if, as seems almost certain, Mr. Obama receives the nod, and she needs to campaign strongly for the nominee once the convention is over. She has said she’ll do that, and there’s no reason to believe that she doesn’t mean it.

But mainly it’s up to Mr. Obama to deliver the unity he has always promised — starting with his own party.

<...>

The only reason I can see for Obama supporters to oppose seating Florida is that it might let Mrs. Clinton claim that she received a majority of the popular vote. But which is more important — denying Mrs. Clinton bragging rights, or possibly forfeiting the general election?

What about offering Mrs. Clinton the vice presidency? If I were Mr. Obama, I’d do it. Adding Mrs. Clinton to the ticket — or at least making the offer — might help heal the wounds of an ugly primary fight.

Here’s the point: the nightmare Mr. Obama and his supporters should fear is that in an election year in which everything favors the Democrats, he will nonetheless manage to lose. He needs to do everything he can to make sure that doesn’t happen.

Krugman mocked Obama supporters earlier in the year as cultists, no better than Chris Matthews and G. Gordon Liddy worshipping the sock in Bush's flight suit--full of "venom" for wanting "their hero or nobody". He has no such harsh words for Clinton supporters now that the nomination is within Obama's grasp. All he offers is a threat. "Offer Clinton the Veep slot, or else," Krugman warns, or Clinton Democrats might not support the nominee who best represents their interests.

Who exactly, is dwelling in Nixonland now?

The truth of the matter is Hillary Clinton has recieved grotesque treatment...at the hands of the press, not the Obama campaign. Conversely, Obama has recieved grotesque treatment at the hands of the Clintons, from Bob Johnson to Geraldine Ferraro to Stephanie Tubbs-Jones lauding Obama's "native dress" on television. Clinton supporters seem as incensed by her loss as they are at Obama's graciousness in response to Clinton's attacks, they wish, desperately, that he behaved in the same manner she has, because then it would provide some excuse for their continued animosity.

But he hasn't, and so Krugman and others spend a great deal of ink and pixels trying to blame phantom "Obama supporters" for this and that slight against Hillary, when in fact the press is to blame. And then they demand "restitution" in the form of the Veep slot.

If I were Obama, I'd say forget it.


How did Paul Krugman become such an apologist for the Clinton campaign?

Then there is Hillary's chief fundraiser:

Both David Axelrod and Bill Burton told CNN there weren't talks.

UPDATE: Echoing the blind CNN quotes about a "civil war", Clinton fundraising chief Hassan Nemazee just said this to Greg Sargent:

"There's a desire on the part of the party to come together under any circumstances, and Hillary and her supporters will do everything in their power to help Obama win, should he become the nominee, whether or not she's on the ticket," Nemazee said to me this morning.

"But there's a risk that if she isn't invited on the ticket, Hillary's political and financial supporters may not feel compelled to be as integrated and involved in the Obama campaign in order to provide the maximum support that he'll need to prevail in November."

link

(emphasis added)

As a group, Hillary's top donors gave $24 million to Democratic candidates and committees over the last 10 years. Maybe they need to stop making threats linked to Obama's fundraising and concentrate on paying off her $19 million in vendor debt and her $11 million personal loan.


Flashback: Hillary's divide and conquer strategy...


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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Krugman has entered a dark place. Like a lot of Clinton supporters. Easily confused with the place
a lot of trolls angle their nonsense from.

To maintain support for Clinton at this point is to embrace such absurd hypocrisy, it becomes very simply for trolls and disruptors to mimic it.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama can stew in his own mess
He's made many mistakes and divided the party. One has to wonder whether he really cares if he wins the nom but loses the race.

Dems will have to suffer for it. Maybe its a journey we needed to make to find out what our party really stands for.
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hey Clinton supporter
Give some examples of Obama's mistakes or don't bother to post your idiotic assertions.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Playing the race card and running a highly divisive campaign
attacking Dem party principles, praising Ronald Reagan and condemning all the great accomplishments the Dem party has made.

That's a start.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Idiocy. n/t
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Were you listening to Obama.....OR what HRC said that Obama had said?
I cannot believe that if you actually listened to the man, you could have so misinterpreted what he has said.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. I'm coming to the conclusion that people...
...like you are so far gone, and so far removed from Progressive ideas
and a new kind of politics--that that I think it's best if you consider
McCain or some other candidate, besides Obama.

There are plenty of thoughtful, intelligent Clinton supporters. However,
there are also hatemongering parrots who spew ill-informed talking points
and are only about destruction and division--Rovian style.

I say...good riddance.

Really now, "praising Ronald Reagan." Come on. Obama acknowledged
the contributions that Reagan made to the political arena, and how he
appealed to Dems, as well as Reps. That's what Obama was praising.
Not Reagan's policies.

It's baloney and a waste of time to keep explaining and arguing with
people like you. I'm just not interested in people like you, because
you're vacuous and you spew lies.

We used to be united against Bush, Lieberman and the rest of the neocons
who engaged in these tactics. Now, we've got some Hillary supporters doing
it. In my opinion, people who engage in this type of poison can't leave
our party fast enough.

I'm not going to beg for their votes. I'm not going to coddle them
in the name of "unity." There are decent, intelligent Republicans
and Independents who want to move forward--end this war, save our
democracy and stop the childish lies and games that Rove and Company
immortalized.

Our party should be purged of nonsense like this. We shouldn't bend
over backwards, and kow tow to people who are not decent.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Agreed. And Mayella Ewell isn't salvageable ...
... she's lost in her own bile and venom. :shrug:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. There must be other issues at play here. n/t
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EnviroBat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Oh for God's sake. OzarkDum rides the ignore list once again...
Must be on the NyQuil again...
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ericgtr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. All fine and good.. That much more reason not to have that murder solicitor on his ticket
She can go to hell.
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MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Would you really look me in the eye
and with a straight face suggest that a Walmart corporate lawyer would be the answer?
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. But we need someone with more experience to enhance the ticket
Edited on Mon May-26-08 08:21 PM by bushmeat
NOT
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Maybe the "Presumptive Nominee of the last 3 years" should take note that the "voters" didn't
necessarily agree that HRC had some "divine right" to the WH. Maybe the "voters" thought that they should have a say in who our Democratic Nominee should be.......



just a thought
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stratomagi Donating Member (811 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. Wow, talk about projection.
Goes great with denial!
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Can he be fired?
Or is he so isolated that he can't be touched?

He is an idiot, you know.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. It is really,really, beginning to look as though...
they have something up their sleeves I have been avoiding saying what I think...
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. The exact opposite phenomenon.
That's what I keep seeing.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. this openly begging for her to be on the ticket by her surrogates is so demeaning
its really embarassing
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HooptieWagon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. true, and Bill buying her a senate seat is demeaning to feminists
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. And in such a passive aggressive way. Ugh. nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bill "Professional Whiner" Clinton is at it again.
Edited on Mon May-26-08 05:45 PM by ProSense

Bill Clinton: 'Cover up' hiding Hillary Clinton's chances

(CNN) -- Former President Bill Clinton said that Democrats were more likely to lose in November if Hillary Clinton is not the nominee, and suggested some were trying to “push and pressure and bully” superdelegates to make up their minds prematurely.

Bill Clinton did not explain who he was accusing of “covering up” Sen. Clinton’s chances.

“I can’t believe it. It is just frantic the way they are trying to push and pressure and bully all these superdelegates to come out,” Clinton said at a South Dakota campaign stop Sunday, in remarks first reported by ABC News.

Clinton also suggested some were trying to “cover up” Sen. Clinton’s chances of winning in key states that Democrats will have to win in the general election.

” ‘Oh, this is so terrible: The people they want her. Oh, this is so terrible: She is winning the general election, and he is not. Oh my goodness, we have to cover this up.’ “

Clinton did not expound on who he was accusing.

more


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. While Bill is talking crap
Obama has effectively clinched the nomination:

Total delegates remaining: 287

Obama will get a minimum: 54

287 - 54 = 233

If Hillary gets all the remaining 233 (never going to happen), she comes up 13 short:

Hillary has 1779 + 233 = 2012

Obama has 1976 + 54 = 2030

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. IF the Hack, Krugman, is pushing it
then there is no doubt about it. It's one of the worst ideas ever.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. She really shouldn't accept
and I doubt she would. Who would want to have their reputation sullied with a nasty train wreck of a campaign?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. First things first: She shouldn't be offered n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. So krugman was whining like a hilary when he thought
Edited on Mon May-26-08 07:13 PM by zidzi
Obama supporters wouldn't vote for her in the Fall and now he's saying she has to be on Obama ticket as vp or her supporters won't vote for him?

Guess what, krugman...hilary's not vp material..she's a big fucking liar and we don't want all that baggage bullsthit. Maybe you could give her a job if she doesn't make senator again in 2012? See how you like it when she's hangin' around lyin' and shit.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. ......And the dead horse they rode in in....
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
19. Doesn't matter. THEY HAVE NO HOSTAGE! The vast majority of Clinton supporters will go Obama.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. NO VP for Hillary and Bill.........
Wake up we do not need anymore old school free trade fools in the administration.
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kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
26. I've been a fan of the Krugster for many many years. He is not dead to me.
but he does seem to be inhabited by a body snatcher -- or a judgment snatcher. Whatever he says, he almost always gets it right. I refuse to throw the Krugster under the bus. But I am, however, learning that he is indeed human and quite flawed much like the rest of us. When he gets it wrong, boy does he ever lay a stinking egg. He is really really misguided on this Hillary stuff, but she seems to turn a lot of otherwise rational, principled people into Shillbots. I look forward to him coming back to earth after the primaries, and unlike Hillary folks, I refuse to throw him under the bus. I've been a fan way too long. He's just wrong on this one. Turns out Krugman isn't superhuman after all. He's still the Krugster to me.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
27. "$24 million to Democratic candidates and committees over the last 10 years"
ROFL

We'll give many times that much once those hijackers are muscled out of the way. If they can't stand the stench of populist politics, let them go.
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