Hillary Found Guilty of Dirty Campaign Tricks in Court of Public Opinion: Please List the Charges

[McCamy Taylor]

I am being serious here. I have not seen one comprehensive thread or list anywhere that covers the whole campaign starting from January 2007.I would like to offer this opportunity for anyone---Hillary's critics, neutral parties, Republicans, people from other countries---to remind us of the specific campaign dirty tricks which either Hillary Clinton or someone employed by her campaign used in the primary election. It would help to be as detailed as possible and provide links. Also, try to mention whom the target of the attack was and what happened as a result of the attack if possible.

Please no generic "she is such a cheater" or "there are too many to mention".

One charge per post would be helpful.

I want to hear the entire list of charges. Please do not duplicate charges, but if you think that someone did not explain something correctly or you feel that some details need to be added, please add them under the original post.

If I feel that a charge is too vague or not specific enough ---i.e "race baiting"--I might ask for details.

This is a chance for everyone who has been saying that she has been running a Rovian or a Nixonian campaign to make a list . The most important thing is to be thorough and accurate. Adjectives and hyperbole will not be as impressive as demonstrating a pattern.

Keep in mind that there will be people reading this and critiquing the posts. I am not going to offer comments in this thread, besides asking clarifying questions. I want more information about the specific instances people are talking about when they speak of "dirty tricks". However, there will be other people posting at DU who will comment and they will disagree so expect some arguments.

The purpose here is not to incite anger. Rather, I would like to see what the real issues are that need to be addressed and apologized for. Eventually, the candidates are going to have to make up and campaign for the winner (who will probably be Obama) if the Democrats are going to win this fall. It will help a lot if we know exactly what everyone needs to apologize for.

[DUyellow]

1. Suggest Obama can be the VP when she is lossing

[patrice]

2. Voting for the Iraq War Resolution BECAUSE she planned to run for pResident. nt

[Political Heretic]

3. Her last ad in pennsylvania would be a plcae to start.

[Political Heretic]

4. Going on the record stating that MI should not count, signing a pledge that stated MI wouldn't count

then, when it became convenient for her, saying that MI should count and taking "moral highground" acting like she is somehow the only one interested in "fairness" - when her name was the only name on the ballot.

[Political Heretic]

5. Trying to change the rules in Nevada

After agreeing to them.

[Aloha Spirit]

114. Bill Clinton quote

"Get on your television station and say, 'I don't care about the home mortgage crisis; all I care about is making sure that some voters have it easier than others ... and when they do vote ... their vote should count five times as much as others."

[Political Heretic]

6. Promoting John McCain as a more qualified candidate than a Democratic candidate

[Tatiana]

14. Everything pales in comparison to this one. Nearly unforgivable, IMO. n/t

[TheDoorbellRang]

7. Saying that Barack was one preventing revote in FL and MI n/t

[Political Heretic]

8. Lying point blank to the American electorate, multiple times, i.e. character claims such as Bosnia

[Political Heretic]

9. I guess he's a Christian..... ...... ....... ....... ...... ....... ....... ..... as far as I know.

[dchill]

83. I'll take him at his word.

[FrenchieCat]

10. Called Obama an out of touch elitist when she knew it was a lie.

Acts like she doesn't know Rev. Wright who sat next to her at her and Bill's Monica prayer breakfast.

Threw Farrakhan at Obama's face at 2 different debates when she knew that there is no direct relations between the two.......and she omitted that the PA governor who endorsed her was sitting in church glorifying Rev. Farrakahn.

Lied about NAFTA and Obama.

She lied when she said that what her pollster said about Brown people not wanting to vote for Black people. She said that was an historical fact, when it wasn't.

Excused Obama's speeches as "just words" when her husband earned 51 million dollars giving speeches.

When she praised McCain as being ready to be Commander in chief along with her, but that Obama only had a speech.

There is so much more, but this will do for now.

[IndianaGreen]

11. What's this lawsuit against the Clintons in California, Paul v Clinton?

http://www.paulvclinton.com/

[boppers]

12. Using OBL in a campaign ad to scare people. eom

[Radical Activist]

94. Don't forget the stock market crash and explosions.

Exploiting fears just like Bush.

[Political Heretic]

13. Saying pledged delegates don't matter, when they are in fact the quantitative criteria

for choosing a nominee

[berni_mccoy]

19. And then Setting up a Site To STEAL Delegates (if they aren't important why try to steal them)

www.delegatehub.com

[boppers]

15. Self-delete

note-up thread already

[Political Heretic]

16. Clinton mocking ordinary people who support Obama, incinuating that they are delusional

or morons. Saying Obama can be reduced to a speech he made in 2002. Mocking his campaign sloans, mocking his message, mocking people who support him.

[McCamy Taylor]

66. This is going to be hard to google, except maybe for the speech part.

Since mocking is a subjective thing. Can you link or quote specific things which she said?

[Political Heretic]

69. Okay that's a fair point - start for example with the video of her rally where she said

the skies will open...voice from the heaven's will come down... etc. It was during the Texas primary, and particularly during that time she was really on this kick of being the anti-hope candidate.

This one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/24/hillary-clinton-mocks-bar_n_88194.html

[myrna minx]

107. Voters *love* to be mocked, insulted and ridiculed by a Presidential candidate,

especially when she's in your own party. :eyes:

[datopbanana]

98. it also happened during the 1st of the texas debates

[ruby slippers]

17. this YouTube out of context statement about Michelle.....see link

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RzDXVCe3ipc

[McCamy Taylor]

57. Cam you find me a link in which Hillary or a campaign worker says it was about Hillary?

I know that the press tried to defame Michelle Obama, but I am looking for something that the Clinton camp put out.

[berni_mccoy]

18. OH FAWK McCamy! Where to BEGIN? NAFTAGate, Farakhan, Ferraro and Bill's Racist b.s.,

The Debacle of the ABC Debate in which she so gleefully piled on. If you have been missing all this, then you really haven't been paying attention to the election. Maybe that's because you spend all your attention on writing 10-page diatribes that say absolutely nothing.

[Aloha Spirit]

118. Not only did Clinton continue to lie about Goolsbee after the Canadian government made a statement

disproving the accusations, but guess what?
The original press meeting with Brodie revealed that the CLINTON campaign contacted the Canadian government with reassurances:
" said someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. ... That someone called us and told us not to worry."

Guess who was in Canada the weekend before this story broke?

Bill Clinton.

[goletian]

145. hillarys racist shit too

not just bill. she downplayed louisiana because of the black electorate

[Pisces]

20. Saying John McCain and herself had passed commander in chief threshold

[Political Heretic]

21. Claiming Obama is substanceless when his policy proposals are near identical and as robust as hers.

Note that claiming he lacks experience is not the same as calling him an empty suit.

[boppers]

22. SINCE WHEN DOES A DEMOCRAT ATTACK ANOTHER DEMOCRAT!

(insert angry gesticulations here)

[boppers]

25. "All he has is a speech" eom

[Pisces]

23. Jumping on the Ayers bandwagon and claiming she didn't know anything about

Bill pardoning 2 underground weathermen.

[Pisces]

24. Mark Penn acting as lobbying in Columbia and she doesn't fire him.

[Pisces]

27. Saying she would "OBLITERATE" Iran to feed into fear.

[Pisces]

31. Jumping on the Rev Wright BS when she was being hit with Snipergate.

[walldude]

34. That's not a dirty trick though... that was attempted suicide

Used to be the easiest way to lose the support of the liberals was to talk about nuking someone. She got lucky. This campaign has done funny things to people.

[Zhade]

26. Lied about nonexistent sniper fire, presumably to appear tough.

Video's all over the internet, probably already linked in this thread.

Same with her lie that she opposed NAFTA.

[Emit]

28. Clinton finance official Annie Totah passed along

a critical essay by Ed Lasky, a conservative blogger whose own anti-Obama e-mails have circulated in the U.S. Jewish community. Totah wrote: "Please read the attached important and very disturbing article on Barak Obama. Please vote wisely in the Primaries."

...I've obtained a copy of an e-mail from Annie Totah, a Washington society figure and Armenian-American activist who's also a member of Clinton's finance committee. The e-mail, titled "Barack Obama's Poor Record on Israel," went to a list that includes Anne Ayalon, wife of the former Israeli ambassador.

"Please read the attached important and very disturbing article on Barak Obama. Please vote wisely in the Primaries," the e-mail read, attaching a long piece from the American Thinker blog that's become central to the sub-rosa anti-Obama chatter.

The American Thinker calls speculation that Obama is actually a Muslim "overheated" (!) and "unfair," and never crosses the line into the more outlandish stuff you can find elsewhere on the Web. But it does go well beyond anything the Clinton campaign has touched (and more obvious elements of Obama's position, like his words and votes), and draws together a long litany of items from his church (which it says Obama joined out of expedience) to the fact that former Knick Allan Houston raised money for him to make the case that he's a "disquieting" candidate when it comes to Israel...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Pushing_the_Israel_angle.html#comments

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:SNRU3_87xbkJ:tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/10/is_clinton_campaign_stirring_u/+Clinton+finance+official+Annie+Totah+passed+along&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us


Daphna Ziman, a Hillary Clinton bundler does the same here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5592032

[Political Heretic]

29. Claiming today that she leads the in popular vote. Lie.

Even if you count Fl, she doesn't lead in the popular vote. Even if you count MI and give her vote to her and the uncommitted vote to Obama - whose name did not appear on the ballot - she doesn't lead in the popular vote. Only if you award Obama ZERO votes in Michigan and her ALL of her votes does she "lead" in any measurement.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

128. Still not true.

She completely leaves out caucus voters in her "totals."

[boppers]

30. "Ready from day one"

Implying (not so subtly) that others are not.

[Political Heretic]

32. Pandering to the conservative right on forieng policy "massive retaliation" "obliterate"

confirmed that she was referring to nuclear options in response to a nuclear strike on another ME country. Even aside form that, she promised a "massive" committment of US forces even in a non-nuclear scenario if Israel is attacked, and her comments leave it unclear whether that applies to an attack on any ME country. It is a position as hawkish as McCain.

[boppers]

33. Complaining that debates should be on her schedule, and implying that doing otherwise...

Is done out of fear, or cowardice.

[Political Heretic]

35. I think I've posted about ten things now... enough to prove that we have real complaints.

Not just generalities.

[boppers]

36. Pandering to blood and circuses.

Using word choices about "fight" and "combat", rather than "debate" and "compromise".

[berni_mccoy]

37. Let's not forget BILL RICHARDSON IS JUDAS!

[boppers]

38. Tearing up, on camera, about how wonderful a person she is.

Oddly enough, I wouldn't hold this against her in terms of tactical moves, I think she really believes in herself. To a bizarre, weird, degree.

[boppers]

40. "It'll be over on Super Tuesday"

A gambit to crush 50-state campaigning, which failed.

[goclark]

129. Bill C dozing in MLK's Church as MLK's son was speaking

At first I thought it may have been jet lag but since seeing his other stunts,,,,,

[tabasco]

39. Saying McCain was qualified but Obama only had a speech.

Bubba saying there were two candidates (Hill and McCain) that loved America.

Pushing scurrilous questions about Obama's drug use as teenager.

Saying Obama was a Christian "as far as I know."

Lying about Obama's position on NAFTA.

Lying about Obama's opposition to the Iraq war. Lying that she had opposed the war before Obama.

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/bill-and-hillary-clintons-top-5-lies-to-voters-on-the-campaign-trail/

[quantass]

41. Saying FL and MI should count, but Obama's PDs shouldnt be obligated, disenfranchising voters

of other states

[QC]

42. Wow, your stalker's not here yet.

I'm getting worried.

[Political Heretic]

43. Geraldine Ferraro: waiting, waiting, waiting until comments had fully sunk into the media before

weakly "rejecting" them. That's opposed to several examples where the Obama campaign reacted the same day to correct a mistake of the surrogate.

[boppers]

44. Poutrage over "pimping".

Yes, Hillary, you are pimping your daughter. What was your line? "If she can't take the heat"?

[quantass]

45. "They think they have a sense of entitlement to the presidency." ~ Bill Richardson

[expada]

Public opinion said Gore was a liar. Public opinion gave us the Iraq war

Be yourself.

[wisteria]

46. Her last ad is dispicable. It is a collage of all the thing people feared in the past and what they

still fear now.
She must have know the "Bitter" controversy was coming as it was planted a week after it happened. Her campaign was ready and waiting to that this and run with it. This bitter nonsense was nothing but RW spin. She should not be using Republicans to get elected or to help her in dividing the party.
Her husband and operatives have been playing the race card. Starting a wispering campaign that went public in which they suggest people of color can't get elected and them going so far as to suggest that Senator Obama was nothing more than a Jesse Jackson.

I could go on, but you get the point.

[mkultra]

47. Taking Obamas 2000 IWR words out of context by chopping the end of a sentence.

[mkultra]

48. Taking Obamas 2000 IWR words out of context by chopping the end of a sentence.

[mkultra]

49. claiming only older voters have the savvy to choose

[mkultra]

50. saying LBJ was responsible for the civil rights act.

[quantass]

51. Saying Bill Richardson's endorsement was worthless because the Texas primary was done

[mkultra]

52. The photo leaked by HRC staffer to drudge

[expada]

91. Do you have evidence of that, other than Drudge said so? n/t

[berni_mccoy]

108. When directly asked about it, Clinton campaign has not denied it.

[dailykoff]

53. Handshakegate, gangbang gate, bittergate, Wrightgate, Rezkogate, bowling gate,

ironmyshirtgate, and the rest of her bad PR

[McCamy Taylor]

71. Gangbang gate? I dont know that one. Can you tell me about it?

[dailykoff]

113. Google Marcia Pappas.

nt

[mkultra]

54. claiming speech plagarism whie stealing from Obama

[mkultra]

55. claiming speech plagarism whie stealing from Obama

[mkultra]

56. Bill Clintons AMAZINGLY obvious lies.

[McCamy Taylor]

70. You will have to list them for me please. I wont be able to google them I am afraid.

[mkultra]

72. "The bosnia statment was made once and late at night"

[Blue State Bandit]

89. Didn't she just admit she flat out lied about Bosnia?

"...on a couple of occasions in the last, uh, weeks, um, I just, said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case..."

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GhCxcjon19A

[Political Heretic]

144. No. As with all Clinton things, she head fakes toward admission, then justifies it

I was tired... it was an accident.... etc. etc. That's not true. It was a frequently repeated, with precise wording, calculated lie. No justification possible. When she continues to defend herself on it, that's not admission. Saying I said some things that weren't in keeping with what I knew to be the case....then saying BUT I have excuses for doing that, sort of negates an admission.

[Blue State Bandit]

151. But her follow was "I'm embarassed....I hope you can look over"

as in past her past discretion. The closest she came to giving an excuse is when she said she may need a little more sleep later in the snip.

[Political Heretic]

155. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

[mkultra]

73. "I never said they used the race card on me"

[mkultra]

75. calling BO constant stance against IWR a fairy tale

[mkultra]

76. claiming obama said only republicas have had any good ideas.

[Radical Activist]

102. And Hillary pretending that Obama was praising Reagan's policies.

Edwards did that too and either way it was bullshit.

[mkultra]

58. Claiming experience by being married to someone who was in charge

[Radical Activist]

101. Not taking responsibility for Bill's actions while taking credit for experience as first lady.

[mkultra]

claiming to be an activist while she sat on the board of WAL-MART

[boppers]

59. Poutrage over "bitter", and mischaracterizing Obama's remarks. eom

[mrreowwr_kittty]

60. I volunteered for the NV caucus back in January.

On the day of the caucus, I personally encountered undecided voters who were told by Clinton volunteers that they had to mark "uncommitted" on their card for the first round of voting. This was not true and all campaigns were made clear what the caucus rules were. No voting was to be done before noon. But these people were told at 11:30 that they had to mark their cards.

The Clinton people tried to shut the doors to the caucus at 11:30, to not allow anyone in, despite CLEAR state party rules that the doors were to stay open until noon. The caucus chair (an Edwards supporter who was scrupulously fair and well-versed in the rules) threatened to call the cops because the Clinton precinct chair and a staffer from California were so obnoxious.

I personally saw the memo that was distributed to Clinton staffers and volunteers that said, and I quote, IT'S NOT ILLEGAL UNLESS THEY TELL YOU IT IS!!

The man whose house we were staying in received a robocall from the Clinton campaign stating that Obama wanted to dump waste at Yucca Mountain (not true) and that he said Republicans were the "party of ideas". He saved it and played it for us.

[grantcart]

61. sabre rattling with the doctrine of MAD mutually assured distruction

In the long history of partisan campaigning there has been an unspoken rule - do not try and gin up the debate by bringing in Thermonuclear Warfare into a campaign. There have been traditional conventions that both parties have used to make sure that when running for office you don't get specific and worsen international tensions by unnecssarily bringing in nuclear weapons into the heat of the debate.

When asked what you would do if a neighbor was attacked the answer would be something like:

"As your President I would consider it as a serious attack on the vital interests of the United States and we would make an appropriate response."

When asked about nuclear weapons in particular a typical answer would be "I am not going to take anything off the table"


This is her statement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u1nmGmtD18


VIOLATES CLINTON LAW OF HOPE AND FEAR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoqVNJ1622U

Senator Clinton has dramatically escalated the rhetoric of thermonuclear warfare in a way that Nixon/Kennedy did not do even when they quibbled about Quemoy and Matsu in 1960. She used fear in her rhetoric and her commercials.



The reaction around the world was swift and damning.



They used words like Impudent, Bellicose, Bush III, Madhouse, Ozone Destroying, Cold War Mentality, warrior like, hawkish in these following excerpts from England, Arab News, Israel, France and American Iranians.




http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jEp2ukq1nzsx5QXn7Khdn7AqDPmg
British minister says Clinton's 'obliterate' Iran tone imprudent

11 hours ago

LONDON (AFP) — A British foreign minister said Wednesday that US Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton's threat to "totally obliterate" Iran if it attacked Israel with nuclear weapons was imprudent.

Lord Mark Malloch-Brown, a former United Nations deputy secretary-general and the foreign office minister responsible for Asia, questioned the comments by the New York senator, made in an interview broadcast Tuesday.

"While it is reasonable to warn Iran of the consequence of it continuing to develop nuclear weapons and what those real consequences bring to its security, it is not probably prudent... in today's world to threaten to obliterate any other country and in many cases civilians resident in such a country," he said.

The British government wanted a Middle East -- including Israel -- free of nuclear weapons, he said, responding to a question in the House of Lords, Britain's unelected upper chamber of parliament.

In response to a question on what she would do if the Islamic republic were to attack US ally Israel, Clinton told ABC News: "I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran.

"In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."

Clinton said her remark was an attempt to lay out a rationale for a Cold War-style system of deterrence with Tehran.



Hillary Clinton, in her most bellicose comments since the presidential race began, today threatened to obliterate Iran if it launched a nuclear strike against Israel.

Speaking as voters went to the polls in the potentially crucial Pennsylvania primary, the New York senator said: "I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran (if it attacks Israel)."

Barack Obama immediately accused her of "sabre-rattling", saying this was the kind of language that had been used by the Bush administration over the last few years and was not helpful.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1208422654274&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
54. Regional nuclear war could destroy ozone layer
Recent research suggests a regional nuclear war could destroy the ozone layer and with it, life on Earth. We need to eliminate nuclear weapons around the world, not threaten to use them!
Julie Phillips - USA (04/22/2008 20:14)




http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=109267&d=24&m=4&y=2008
If there were any doubt that if she made it to the Oval Office, Hillary Clinton’s term would be George Bush Mark III, the lady made it plain on the eve of Tuesday’s Pennsylvania primary.

Her campaign had already run TV advertisements featuring pictures of Osama Bin Laden and asking voters who they would really trust as their commander-in-chief, Clinton or Obama. Then Monday night, Clinton drove home her “toughness” by threatening to “obliterate” Iran if it launched an attack on Israel. Given the kind of foreign policy advisers she has (the same as those who paved the way for Iraq war), she may not wait for Iran to “attack” Israel. It can be a pre-emptive “obliteration.”

This is the foreign politics of the madhouse. It demonstrates the same doltish ignorance that has distinguished Bush’s foreign relations. It offers only violence where there should be negotiations and war where there could be peace. At a stroke, Clinton demonstrated to everyone in this region that if she were the next occupant of the White House, Iraq-like death and destruction would be the order of the da


http://www.campaigniran.org/casmii/index.php?q=node/4712
NIAC denounces Clinton’s war rhetoric: "Obliterate" Iran
Washington DC - The National Iranian American Council (NIAC) denounces Senator Hillary Clinton's escalating war rhetoric on Iran. In an interview with Good Morning America, Senator Clinton promised Tuesday to "obliterate" Iran should Tehran develop a nuclear weapon and use it against Israel.

"I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the President, we will attack Iran," Clinton said. "In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."

NIAC regrets that at a time when America needs a new foreign policy - one centered on resolving regional and global conflict through diplomacy in cooperation with US allies - Senator Clinton has chosen a policy that would prolong conflict. Her rhetoric suggests that she would resort to Cold War tactics instead of recognizing the ability to resolve the US-Iran stalemate through diplomacy.

"Senator Clinton's statement reflects a mindset of perpetual conflict that has guided our Iran policy for the last seven years," Trita Parsi, NIAC President, said. "This is disastrous for US national interest, since we are in desperate need of a new and fresh Iran policy aimed at resolving the conflict rather than prolonging it."

Senator Clinton's remarks were made in the context of her proposal to provide a nuclear umbrella to Arab states in the Middle East against Iran. The New York Senator rejected on MSNBC Monday evening the idea that the government in Tehran cannot be deterred.

"Fixation on deterrence, sanctions and threats of war have all failed to advance US national interest and change Iran's nuclear policy," Parsi said. "What we need now is not nuclear deterrence, but nuclear diplomacy."



http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/04/22/clinton-to-iran-we-will-obliterate-you/
Tikun Olam-תקון עולם: Make the World a Better Place
Hillary Clinton must think she’s auditioning for the role of Curtis LeMay in a Hollywood film. That’s the only reason (other than a looming PA. primary in which she’s desperate to sound tough as nails) I can figure she’s sounding more like a Gen. Buck Turgidsen in Dr. Stangelove than a presidential candidate. ABC News reports that on this morning’s Good Morning America she will threaten to obliterate Iran if they attack Israel:

…In an interview airing on “Good Morning America” Tuesday. ABC News’ Chris Cuomo asked Clinton what she would do if Iran attacked Israel with nuclear weapons.

“I want the Iranians to know that if I’m the president, we will attack Iran,” Clinton said. “In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them.”

Is this truly how Hillary thinks she’s going to salvage her primary campaign and eke out a win over Obama?? This is precisely the Hillary that so many Democrats have been turned off by–the candidate who thinks she has to out-gun and out-man every other candidate to show she’s tough on defense. The Party doesn’t need another Henry Jackson, Hillary. We need a candidate more like your husband was in 1992–more like…Barack Obama. A candidate appealing to the “better angels of our nature” rather than the warrior within us.


http://www.france24.com/en/20080422-clinton-threatens-obliterate-iran-israel-attacked
AFP - French associated press:


Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton threatened to "totally obliterate" Iran if the Islamic Republic was ever "reckless" enough to launch a nuclear attack on Israel.

She later said her remark was an attempt to lay out a rationale for a Cold War-style system of deterrence with Iran, but her rival Barack Obama accused her of saber-rattling, as Pennsylvania held its crucial presidential primary.

Clinton took her hawkish line in an interview with ABC television, when she was asked what she would do as president if the Islamic Republic were to launch a nuclear strike on Israel.

"I want the Iranians to know that if I'm the president, we will attack Iran," Clinton said.

"In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."

Later, Clinton told reporters at a polling station in Conshohocken, outside Philadelphia, that Iran must be made aware of the "high price" it would have to pay for any nuclear strike.

[mkultra]

62. suggesting Obama drug use

[dailykoff]

63. "you're likable enough" gate, "periodically" gate

to name two more bogus Hillbot injuries.

[Emit]

64. NH Mailer Sent By Clinton Campaign Claiming Obama wouldn't "stand up and protect" a women's right to

choose because he had voted "present" -- but not yes -- on a few abortion-related bills in the Illinois legislature when Obama's actions were actually part of a strategy to stymie anti-abortion legislation:

Sen. Barack Obama faced a barrage of criticism on the campaign trail and in mailboxes yesterday, with his rivals criticizing his support of nuclear power and accusing him of taking an ambiguous position on abortion rights. Members of one advocacy group supporting Sen. Hillary Clinton called on its leader to stop a negative ad campaign against Obama

~snip~

• A Clinton campaign flyer criticizing Obama's stance on abortion rights landed in New Hampshire mailboxes yesterday, accusing the Illinois senator of being "unwilling to take a stand on choice." On one side the flyer says, "a woman's right to choose . . .," with the backside displaying side-by-side comparisons of Clinton's and Obama's efforts to support abortion rights.

The mailer says Obama had seven opportunities in the Illinois state Senate to "stand up against Republican anti-choice legislation," but seven times he voted "present," instead of "yes" or "no."

"Being there is not enough to protect choice," the flyer says. In bold letters at the bottom it reads, "On January 8 you have a choice."

Obama campaign spokesman Reid Cherlin said the claim was false and already backfired once when Clinton tried to make it in Iowa. The campaign also provided a prepared statement from Lorna Barrett, the president of the Chicago chapter of the National Organization for Women. Brett called the mailer a "red herring."

"Barack Obama is and always has been there for the choice community. I know - I was there with him in the trenches," she said.

"This is offensive. I am pro-choice, pro-truth, pro-Hillary - in that order. And questioning the latter. I am very disgusted by this tactic being used by the Clinton campaign."

A story in the New York Times last month described Obama's "present" votes and quoted a spokeswoman for Illinois Planned Parenthood saying that the votes were actually part of a strategy to stymie anti-abortion legislation.

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080106/NEWS01/801060396&template=single

[Radical Activist]

99. That was a really ugly one and completely dishonest.

[mkultra]

65. appearing on the ballot in MI

[quantass]

67. Telling supporters not to use Wright--but later she uses it on MSM to redirect focus

from her on-going troubles that the media were focusing on of her Sniper-fire lies, Colombia trade fiasco lies.

The thought that she would not want to use Wright as a tool of divisiveness seemed like she was taking the high-road of integrity on this but it only took a week before she began using this as a tool of attack so as to inject race and redirect her problems and make the MSM media forget.

[quantass]

68. Having Bill pardon the Peurto-Rican terroists as a way to win Hispanic votes when she would run for

office

[boppers]

74. Mentioning Farrakhan anytime she gets a chance.

Boogyman's gonna get you!

[stillcool]

77. Lawsuit in Nevada..

and those emails sent out by her campaign workers "Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out.""Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy,"

[SaveAmerica]

117. I'm surprised the e-mail about Obama being Muslim shows up so far down the thread

This one has been the most Repubicanesque and achieved the same objective the Republicans would have gone for.

[quantass]

78. Hillary's disturbing thing she did to that Teenage rape victim

[Emit]

79. Meeting with Scaife

And his paper endorsing her

Do I actually have to provide a link for that one?

[Aloha Spirit]

115. You mean this Scaife? Who wants homosexuality a crime, punishable with death?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mellon_Scaife#Political_donations

Bill Clinton accepted a meeting with Scaife last summer....
The reasons for the Pittsburgh Tribune Review endorsement had nothing to do with "substance."

[Emit]

143. That's the one

yup.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

80. Bill declares "class war" accuses Obama campaign of hostility towards working class voters

Class War!

Andrew Sullivan 23 Apr 2008

Bill Clinton directly accuses the Obama campaign of hostility to working class voters. When you see the brutal politics the Clintons are still eagerly deploying, you have to believe this will go to the convention. The Clintons are prepared to use any argument, any Republican tactic, and any social or cultural division to stay in the game. By tactically morphing into Rove Republicans, they are deliberately pivoting off a myth about Obama to make him unelectable. I think the idea that they will withdraw when Obama reaches the actual number of delegates required for the nomination is a myth. They will insist on having their say at the convention and changing the votes of pledged delegates if they need to. This is their party, in their minds. Obama has no right to lead it. Until he waits his turn and the Clintons give their blessing.

To stay in the game, the level and suicidal quality of their attacks on Obama require a similar form of tactic in response. But Obama will not and should not go there. The one profound difference between him and the Clintons is that he will actually not do some things for the sake of power. God knows the Clontons have brought him to the verge of that - but pure cynicism would rebut his core message and destroy his candidacy as surely as the Clintons are trying to do. And to say what needs to be said about the Clintons - the truth about their character and their shared pathologies - would be a horribly divisive and brutal move. It would render the Clintons even more unelectable than they already are, undermine the Obama message and give the White House to the GOP. What's striking to me about this race is that it is the young insurgent who is still acting as the responsible party elder; and the former president who is behaving like a man who will destroy his own party in order to soothe his own sense of entitlement and ego.

After this presidency, after eight years of war and debt and torture and deceit and cynicism, to see the Democratic party self-destruct is really something. They were given a chance to remake the country and regain their soul; and the Clintons could not bear it if they were not the vehicles for such a shift. I don't believe anyone in the Democratic party can or will stop them. This is a kamikaze mission.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

81. Clinton Went On Limbaugh Show the day of the Texas primary

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/clinton-went-on.html">Clinton Went On Limbaugh?

Andrew Sullivan 10 Mar 2008 10:34 am

You may have missed it - almost everyone missed it - but Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh's show the day of the Texas primary. You can hear the radio here. Limbaugh himself was sick that day, apparently, but he had already urged Republicans to cross over to keep Hillary Clinton in the race. Bill saw an opening - and went there.

Now just wrap your mind around this: the Clintons were happy to support a cynical, partisan Republican campaign to wound the Democratic front-runner, and they were brazen enough to go on the Limbaugh show to do so.

There also seems little doubt that Republican mischief played a real role in affecting the results. And they call Obama's call for them to release their tax returns a tactic worthy of Ken Starr. I repeat: the chutzpah and the cynicism just leave you speechless. And as you find it impossible to do much but splutter, the Clintons plow on with new self-serving lies.

You know how I realized this? I saw first hand the way they dealt with gay issues in their first term. They didn't just wimp out on our push for marriage equality, they actively pivoted off homophobia to get a few points (ask Dick Morris; it's one of the things he's actually ashamed of in retrospect). The Clintons even put anti-gay ads on Christianist radio stations in the South to build support for the 1996 re-election. And they continue to show up at gay events claiming to be avatars for our civil rights. And the stupid gays still believe them!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

82. Bill Clinton: "Next, We'll See Him Run an Ad Saying: Vote For Me, I Don't Steal Cars."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5454325

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

84. Hillary again endorses McCain over Obama, in 3 more TV appearances

Hillary again endorses McCain over Obama, in 3 more TV appearances

by John Aravosis (DC) · 3/05/2008

She said it three more times in the past day. Why the hell is she saying that the Republican candidate is more qualified to be president than our own presumptive nominee? And what the hell does our party plan to do on stopping this train wreck? She can't win, it's over, she doesn't have the delegates and can't get the delegates. She's hoping she can destroy Obama and step in after he's toast. And if she's wrong, she'll simply leave Obama destroyed for the general election campaign against McCain, the guy she has now said four times is more qualified to be president than our presumptive nominee. Here is the first time she endorsed McCain over Obama, and watch her three additional TV appearances below.

...here's the video

[dchill]

85. False radio ads "Campaign News Update:"

In the last couple days before the Ohio Primary, ads claiming to be "Campaign News Updates" (and sounding like it) accused the Obama Campaign of approaching the Canadians with the "nod & wink" about NAFTA re-negotiation being political rhetoric, nothing to worry about. It turned out to be something the Clinton Campaign had already done - and then, they did it again.

[Diane R]

86. Boasting of a 10% win when she only got 9.1%.

[Diane R]

87. Claiming she won 'Florida, Michigan and Texas' when she didn't.

[Diane R]

88. Claiming "Barack Obama doesn't want you to get to vote".

[SaveAmerica]

121. I was just looking this one up too, does it count as fearmongering?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/01/clinton.obama/
"There are some folks saying we ought to stop these elections," she said in Indianapolis, Indiana, on March 29 -- the audience booed the notion.

"I don't think we believe that in America," she said. "The more people that have a chance to vote, the better it is for our democracy."

"My take on it is a lot of Sen. Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting," she told KTVQ in Billings, Montana. "That's just the opposite of what I believe. We want people to vote. I want the people of Montana to vote, don't you?"

Bill says Obama's supporters want to disenfranchise voters

The former president has charged that Obama's supporters want to end the race and stifle voters because his wife has the late momentum.

"I know Hillary's gaining on them when they say, 'Oh, let's shut this down now; we don't want to be divided," Clinton said in West Virginia last month. "Let's just disenfranchise several of the million people who could vote."

[Blue State Bandit]

90. "It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush....." By stopping

all investigations into the Iran/Contra and BCCI scandals!

So when she says "...and it will take another Clinton to clean up after the second Bush.", does this mean that she will stop investigations into the crimes of the second Bush administration?

Think about it!

[datopbanana]

92. Falsely claiming BO doesn't want NC to vote.

[kdpeters]

93. Bill Clinton: "This whole thing is a fairy tale"

In my own personal opinion, that is the point where it started to get really nasty and that's who started it. It was demeaning, belittling, dismissing and all around VERY unbecoming of a former president. I'm taking you at your word on face value that you are asking this question in good faith. That incident is one of the things that offended me that I offer back to you in good faith. I don't consider it a "dirty trick", just ugly.

[goclark]

127. Jesse Jackson comparison by Bill Clinton

[Radical Activist]

95. Questioned the right of Iowa students to vote at their campus address

You know, where they live most of the year and have a legal right to vote.

[Aloha Spirit]

116. providing link

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7378.html

[Radical Activist]

96. Based her entire Ohio campaign on lying about her early support for NAFTA.

[Radical Activist]

97. Crying "Shame on you!" when Obama told the truth about her support for NAFTA.

[Aloha Spirit]

112. and crying "shame on you" at a politically opportune moment, when the truth is...

those flyers had been out for weeks.
It was completely staged.

[mystieus]

100. Trustworthiness

[Radical Activist]

103. Delaying the release of her tax returns and then complaining that Obama didn't release his old ones

from before entering public office.

[Radical Activist]

104. "That's change you can xerox"

Give me a fucking break. That whole line of attack was a joke.

[FlyingSquirrel]

105. Saying "The pledged delegates aren't really pledged, they can vote for whoever they want."

While technically true, it makes a mockery of the system and is a slap in the face to the voters who expect their wishes (and votes) to be translated into a fair representation of the way the people voted.

Suggesting that the Superdelegates should overturn the winner of the delegate count, when they are only intended to do so in extreme situations (Florida and Michigan choosing not to abide by the DNC's rules does not qualify, especially since she alone chose to remain on the ballot in MI for some unfathomable reason.) Neither does the fact that the opposing candidate is black. Code words aside.

Calling caucuses undemocratic, again a slap in the face of the voters.

It's a pattern of refusing to live within the rules of the system, which

(a) doesn't bode well for having respect for ANY system including the Constitution if it doesn't suit her purposes;

(b) is a step toward dissolution of our system and possibly revolution, because that's what happens when the governed no longer consent to being governed because they don't feel they have a fair say in how they're being governed (for example, that their vote is meaningless or ignored).

[berni_mccoy]

106. Kicking this so people can see Clinton's Campaign Crimes.

[ProSense]

109. Claiming that Obama is linked to terrorists

here


more

[Aloha Spirit]

110. voters see us from afar... and they vote, and that is... part of the process.

Hillary on superdelegates versus voters
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=204090-2&showVid=true
03:13:30

[Aloha Spirit]

111. Pretending she is not aware of her husband's pardons and commutations...

among them Linda Sue Evans, Susan Rosenberg, William Borders... coincidence that Alcee Hastings was there at her Florida victory speech?

[Aloha Spirit]

126. Also the pardons for her brothers' associates. She said flat out to Tim Russert that she had no

knowledge of those pardons.

[yourguide]

119. Trying to link Obama to Hamas at the last debate via rev wright

that was trash.

[bigtree]

120. that's just a lie that you can't prove

keep saying it though. maybe you can make it a greatest hit among your fellow smearmongers

[yourguide]

122. I HEARD IT

GO BACK AND WATCH THE DEBATE KNUCKLEHEAD...

I can easily prove it, perhaps you can do your homework instead.

[yourguide]

130. Here you go...

http://roadkillrefugee.wordpress.com/2008/04/17/abcs-horrible-obama-clinton-debate/

"Hillary, of course, ratcheted up the rhetoric by attempting to conflate Wright with 9/11, Farrakhan and Hamas (and worse, she did so in a vague way that almost seem to be implying Obama had such associations)."

Perhaps I will try and find the transcript for you later.

[ProSense]

133. Hillary's statement from the debate is actually worse:

SENATOR CLINTON: Well, I think, in addition to the questions about Reverend Wright and what he said and when he said it, and for whatever reason he might have said these things, there were so many different variations on the explanations that we heard. And it is something that I think deserves further exploration, because clearly what we've got to figure out is how we're going to bring people together in a way that overcomes the anger, overcomes the divisiveness and whatever bitterness there may be out there.

It is clear that, as leaders, we have a choice who we associate with and who we apparently give some kind of seal of approval to. And I think that it wasn't only the specific remarks, but some of the relationships with Reverend Farrakhan, with giving the church bulletin over to the leader of Hamas to put a message in. You know, these are problems, and they raise questions in people's minds.

And so this is a legitimate area, as everything is when we run for office, for people to be exploring and trying to find answers.

link

[yourguide]

134. Thanks much.

[yourguide]

132. still waiting bigtree...for your apology.

[Emit]

137. She did, bigtree. Neither Gibson nor Stephanopoulos mentioned or asked about Hamas

It was Hillary who made the leap. She spring-boarded from the moderators' questions, using it as a perfect segue, to input Hamas and Farrakhan in the minds of viewers. She knew exactly what she was doing:

...It is clear that, as leaders, we have a choice who we associate with and who we apparently give some kind of seal of approval to. And I think that it wasn't only the specific remarks, but some of the relationships with Reverend Farrakhan, with giving the church bulletin over to the leader of Hamas to put a message in. You know, these are problems, and they raise questions in people's minds.

And so this is a legitimate area, as everything is when we run for office, for people to be exploring and trying to find answers. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/us/politics/16text-debate.html?pagewanted=8

And, she said it after she was given an opportunity to move on:

~snip~

MR. STEPHANOPOULOS: But you do believe he's as patriotic as you are?

SENATOR OBAMA: This is somebody who's a former Marine. And so I have -- I believe that he loves this country, but I also believe that he's somebody who, because of the experiences he's had over the course of a lifetime, is also angry about the injustices that he's seen.

MR. GIBSON: I'm getting a little out of balance here. Do you want to take a few seconds, or do you want to go to the next question?

SENATOR CLINTON: Well, I think, in addition to the questions about Reverend Wright and what he said and when he said it, and for whatever reason he might have said these things, there were so many different variations on the explanations that we heard. And it is something that I think deserves further exploration, because clearly what we've got to figure out is how we're going to bring people together in a way that overcomes the anger, overcomes the divisiveness and whatever bitterness there may be out there.

It is clear that, as leaders, we have a choice who we associate with and who we apparently give some kind of seal of approval to. And I think that it wasn't only the specific remarks, but some of the relationships with Reverend Farrakhan, with giving the church bulletin over to the leader of Hamas to put a message in. You know, these are problems, and they raise questions in people's minds.

And so this is a legitimate area, as everything is when we run for office, for people to be exploring and trying to find answers.

~snip~

[backscatter712]

123. Participating enthusiastically in ABC's ambush "debate"

The event was put together solely to smear Obama and slander the Democratic Party as a whole. She not only didn't say anything to defend her fellow Democrat, she added to the smearing with that Hamas lie, among other things.

She should have spoken up. She should have chided Gibson and Stephenopoulos for their lines of questioning and said "My opponent and I would like to have a debate on the issues please," but she didn't. She knew what the event was, and she participated enthusiastically.

[SaveAmerica]

124. Thank you SO much for starting this, I'm bookmarking it, most helpful

[mckeown1128]

125. Here is the meat of a post I did wwwaaayyy back in February:

A lesson in history: Hillary's ATTACK mailers!!! and robocalls.

1. This is one where Hillary attacks Obama using Republican fear mongering on taxes. Obama has said that as a possible solution to the SS problem. Of course the mailer says it will be a trillion dollar tax increase on working Americans. That leave the impression of the middle class, but in reality Obama has said that if we raise the SS cap, that he would make sure there is a donut protecting "hard working families." Something along the line of only people earning more than 200,000 would have to pay more. Hmm... sounds kinda... progressive to me. Of course Hillary leaves out the details in the hope of scaring up votes.

On Eve Of Primary, Hillary Drops Negative Mailer Hitting Obama On Taxes

here in New Hampshire http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmem...
and here in Nevada http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/010...


2. You may ask "what if right wing talking points on SS don't work?" Well, AFSCME on Hillary's behalf sent out this wonderful mailer in an attempt to scare voters into voting for Hillary.

"A Prime Minister is on the phone: They've lost a warhead," says the fictional memo on the front of the mailing.

The solution?

"Send in the right woman for the job."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/010...

This disgusting tactic lead to some members of AFCSME to right this letter. Where they say they are "shocked and appalled" at the deceptive tactics.

http://thepage.time.com/letter-to-afscme-p... /


3. And another mailer attacking Obama on "possibly" raising the cap on SS for those over 200,000.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archiv...


4. If this still didn't seem enough for the Hillary campaign. They could always LIE by implying that Obama isn't pro-choice.

Barrack Obama. Unwilling to take a stand on a woman's right to choose.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmem...

Only problem is that... Obama voted present on those few Illinois state senate issues because Planned Parenthood asked him to vote present as part of Planned Parenthood's strategy. Ohh... and Obama has a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood and NARAL. More on this here:

http://thecapitolfaxblog.com/2007/12/04/ab... /


5. Just to mix it up here is another Hillary attack on Obama's SS this time a robocall that also wrongly accuses him of wanting to cut benefits. (Which, falls under his statements that everything is on the table. Even though he said it isn't a serious consideration.)

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/arc...

6. We all know that Hillary said MI (and thought the same logic fl) "doesn't count for anything" and now she says it should count based on Obama running national ads. Remember all the faux outrage about Obama advertising in FL by default. Well, Hillary did have her "supporters" run a robocall and GOTV operation. And while this robocall isn't a direct attack on Obama, it does show the absurdity of that big spectacle Hillary's campaign made of FL based on Obama running ads nationally on CNN and MSNBC.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/arc...

7. In SC Hillary's campaign didn't even try to spin a lie. They just flat out lied. This time claiming that Obama would "dismantle the minimum wage."

here:http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-creates...
and here: http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/arc...

8. I guess lying about Obama's policies wasn't enough. Hillary's campaign apparently decided that to appeal to religious bigots and racists. This robocall seemed to serve no purpose with the exception of emphasizing Obama's middle name of Hussein, mentioning it 4 times. I like the last line of "You just can't take a CHANCE on Barrack HUSSEIN Obama." (Clinton loyalists will be quick to say that "there is nothing wrong with his middle name" of course that is bullshit.. These candidates have experts to poor over EVERY single word to make sure the word frames give the correct impression at all times. Also, how many robocalls will a campaign put out that say the name of the opposing candidate 4 times)

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/010...

9. Of course here is where we get the hypocritical BS from Hillary herself. She says that Obama attacked her health care plan unfairly. (I personally think there is nothing wrong with criticizing someone else's positions.) Hillary of course forgets that she has been attacking Obama's health care plan too. This attack is over the lack of a mandate. Hillary shows a diverse group of people and the mailer asks "Which of these people doesn't deserve health care?". Of course that is misleading. Hillary's attack is that Obama's health care plan will prevent 15 million people from getting health care, but that doesn't match up with what the difference is. Hillary's logic is that 15 million people won't choose to get insured... that is a big difference from people being "left" out of the plan(as she is implying.)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/... /



the links aren't working because I cut and pasted from my journal... go their and click on the links if you want see the articles.

[Aloha Spirit]

131. You know what else is a dirty trick? Hillary has absolutely not made it clear what exactly her

husband will be doing in the White House if she's elected. Even long-time Clinton endorser Elaine Kamarck agrees:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/04/11/husbands_legacy_poses_a_dilemma_for_clinton/

[mkultra]

135. is that enough McCamy?

And why are you gathering?

[dailykoff]

136. I think her spinning wheel finally gave up the ghost.

Shame. :rofl:

[McCamy Taylor]

138. Yes, this is plenty. I will use this for an upcoming journal. Thanks.

[Aloha Spirit]

146. Thank *you* for what seems like a genuine bridge-building effort.

[dailykoff]

139. Nope, nothing substantial here.

Oh, and "I'm leaving this thread open" for another day.

:rofl:

[Asgaya Dihi]

140. Some of my favorites are

Stating that she knew the States wouldn't count, then when it's convenient to think otherwise decided that now they should count. Taking onto her campaign people who actually did deal with the States then penalize them and having those same people then get people to believe it's Obama disenfranchising them. Arguing that it's wrong to disenfranchise two States but it's fine to override the will of the voters in all of them with Super delegates and pledged delegates don't have to abide by the will of the voters either, and by the way remember it's Obama disenfranchising someone. And people believe it somehow.

Use of what I'll politely call inappropriate tactics when dealing with issues such as Wright. She spent enough time dealing with personality attacks and they argued themselves against the politics of personal destruction, if you just think back to what they said themselves you already know what's wrong with the tactics used here. They did too at one point.

Similar tactics attempted with Ayers, though karma had teeth this time when it turned out she knew some people too.

The whole package this campaign has been real raw, and if judged by their own standards at one time wrong as hell. The politics of personal destruction has been what much of the campaign was about.

[Youphemism]

141. Refers to Barack Obama as "B.O."

Okay, I don't know that for a fact. But it seems like a good guess.

[dailykoff]

142. Breaking into Obama's campaign offices and stealing data.

Oh wait, that was crack addicts.

[LoZoccolo]

147. Dubiously connecting Obama to Weather Underground members when Bill pardoned other members. n/t

[goletian]

149. also said people died in some cases where they were involved...

neglected to mention the only people who died were actually members of the group whose bombs went off too early...

Clinton said "people died" in 1970s bombings by a radical group of which an Obama acquaintance was a member. In fact, the deaths were of three members of the Weather Underground itself, who died when their own bombs accidentally exploded.

[juajen]

152. Are you ware that the two women weather underground members

that Clinton pardoned had already served 16 and 17 years respectively, and that Ayers served no time at all. He got off because of his well connected father.

[LoZoccolo]

154. Document or retract. n/t

[goletian]

156. that doesnt really change anything. even if ayers served time the smear wouldve been the same.

you have no point to make with that.

[LoZoccolo]

148. Claiming that Obama is not a muslim "as far as I know". n/t

[toys4kitty]

150. Boutique states anyone?

How about the complete disregard for states that she did poorly in?
Latte drinking, Prius driving, trust fund babies.....

The slamming of entire states and their populations is what really started the :wtf: and :puke: thoughts toward her and her campaign. Up until then, I was able to try to rationalize some of the stuff being thrown around.

[DemsUnited]

153. latest push poll to develop push poll in NC.

As per ABC's Jake Tapper

Audio: Clinton Camp Testing Attacks on Obama

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/audio-clinton-c.html

[cali]

157. completely disingenuous

you are nothing if not dishonest.