OBAMA CAMPAIGN FIRES BACK! Releases list and video of Hillary using Obama's words in her speeches

[TeamJordan23]

Obama Release on Clinton’s Languge: Here are a couple of places Clinton freely borrowed rhetoric from Obama…

Clinton Stole The Phrase “Fired Up And Ready To Go” From Obama. “We are fired up and we are ready to go because we know America is ready for change and the process starts right here in Iowa.” In Davenport, Iowa, those words escaped the barriers of a tired Hillary Clinton’s teeth. Without irony. That phrase is associated with Barack Obama. Obama borrows it from a woman in South Carolina who helped remind him what was important in life. It’s the signature, in fact, of Obama’s close.

Clinton Stole Rhetoric From Obama And Said She Wanted “Bring Our Country Together” And How She’s Not Running For President Of The Sates That Voted For Democrats. “One other thing about those Clinton events yesterday: The woman is not at all bashful about stealing from her rivals. Between the two events, I counted six rhetorical turns I’ve heard other candidates employ: She talked about goals ‘I hope will bring our country together,’ a la Barack Obama. In response to a question about excessive partisanship, she talked about how she’s not running to be president of the states that voted for Democrats, she’s running to be president of the United States. This closely resembles Obama’s ‘I don’t want to pit red America against blue America. I want to be the President of the United States of America.’”

Clinton, Stealing Obama’s Line, “Yes, We Can” Said That Obama Was The “No We Can’t” Candidate And Said In Contrast, “Yes We Can.” Stealing a line, Clinton casts Obama as the “no we can’t” candidate, and herself as saying “yes, we can.” Obama is the “Yes We Can” candidate of the 2008 presidential race, an Elvis-like presence riding a wave of popular enthusiasm unseen in U.S. politics in many years. Democratic strategist Liz Chadderdon said Obama is sweeping Americans off their feet.”It’s this incredibly moving speech about how it’s time for Americans to turn inward and fix America’s problems. You listen to it and you say ‘Yes.’ Not that what’s coming out of her mouth isn’t solid, it just doesn’t have the same emotional connection that we’re feeling with him,” she said

10/30/07: Clinton Said “We’ve Got To Turn The Page On George Bush And Dick Cheney.” Clinton, speaking about her electability said “In a perverse way, I think that the Republicans and their constant obsession with me demonstrate clearly that they obviously think that I am communicating effectively about what I will do as president. I am trying to do that because it matters greatly. We’ve got to turn the page on George Bush and Dick Cheney. In fact, we have to throw the whole book away.”

5/2/07: Obama Gave “Turn the Page”-Themed Speech To The California Democratic Convention. Speaking to the California Democratic Convention, Obama said, “I’m running for President because the time for the can’t-do, won’t-do, won’t-even-try style of politics is over. It’s time to turn the page…It’s what I learned as a state Senator in Illinois. That you can turn the page on old debates; that it’s possible to compromise so long as you as you never compromise your principles; and that so long as we’re willing to listen to each other, we can assume the best in people instead of the worst…Democrats of California, it’s time to turn the page…It’s time to turn the page on education…It’s time to turn the page on energy…But most of all, we have to turn the page on this disaster in Iraq…We will bring our troops home. It’s time to turn the page…California, if you want a new kind of politics, it’s time to turn the page. If you want an end to the old divisions, and the stale debates, and the score-keeping and the name-calling, it’s time to turn the page…If you want health care for every American and a world-class education for all our children; if you want energy independence and an end to this war in Iraq; if you believe America is still that last, best hope of Earth, then it’s time to turn the page…It’s time to turn the page for hope. It’s time to turn the page for justice. It is time to turn the page and write the next chapter in the great American story. Let’s begin the work. Let’s do this together. Let’s turn that page.”

http://thepage.time.com/obama-release-on-clintons-languge/

VIDEO HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rweVOO-fhug

[babylonsister]

1. Oh, snap. Now, can I plagiarize your article and post it all over DU

multiple times, for emphasis? :evilgrin:

[Window]

16. LOL!

GD-P is worst than usual today. Must be the desperation. Dear Lord! I'm going to look at a movie.



Peace:thumbsup:

[Gman]

90. LOL!

[L0oniX]

120. LMAO

[Rosa Luxemburg]

150. I don't know how the Clinton campaign came up with this stupidity?

they are SO desperate that they are beginning to look stupid!

[bjobotts]

165. This is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

187. Democrats don't need to stoop to this level

The Democratic Party needs to focus on issues not pantomine

[niceypoo]

250. This is about the stupidest "issue" Ive ever heard of

When will Obama camp start talking about issues and stop worrying about mindless slogans and cliches?

Hillary talks about policy and Obama talks about Hillary, same story, different day.

[LiberalFighter]

259. And those "words" have been used over and over in previous campaign rallies.

I know because I've been to 100's of them as well as many speeches at Jefferson Jackson Dinners and State Conventions and other political events.

[cd3dem]

278. Was at an Elementary school today... "They are FIRED UP for reading!"

I guess they plagiarized Obama too!!!!

[pauldg0]

206. Both Candidates are desparate and dont give a rats as about us....

Is there any way that we can just shut these two up.

This is what we are going to get for our nominee!!!!??? I am just pissed off at the public for including these two clowns as our potential candidate to run for the Democratic party.

What a joke.

Folks, is there any way we could get John Edwards on the ballot for our upcoming party convention? If there are any Edwards folks still out there, do not support any of these two people. They don't deserve one more ounce of any body's attention.

Can Al Gore come in and straighten them all out? It is embarrassing !! How could this possibly happen. God bring John Edwards back somehow. The New Hampshire for Al Gore endorsed John Edwards. I am sure other groups similar like John Edwards as well.

I'm just pissed off with these two Morons!!

[Binka]

225. Thanks For Taking Muttly Away From That Abusive Snake

That poster has always rubbed me the VERY wrong way. DURRTY indeed. Muttly is much better off with you honey.

[CreekDog]

254. Is Muttley a superdelegate?

:shrug:

[L0oniX]

264. I wish Muttley was running in the primary but he's just a superdelegate.

[CreekDog]

265. Probably voting against his sponsor, Dick Dastardly

[Araxen]

2. Well that didn't take long

to make the Hillobots look like fools.

[TeamJordan23]

7. I'm sure more will follow. nm

[Quixote1818]

75. He seems to almost anticipate their every move. I wonder if he has an informant

inside Hillary's campaign? Dam they work fast! :wow:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

98. hes used to Chicago politics, remember?

and he taught law, worked for Project Vote (my heroes).

He also has alot of great people who support him.

The Best of the Best.

[Capn Sunshine]

129. It's really quite easy

because all the people with integrity and intelligence seem to have left the camp.

[indimuse]

244. The AUDACITY Of SHAME!! Obama lifts from Edwards...Hillary...EVEN his own Rev Wright!

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19651
"The Audacity of Hope," it turns out, was the name of a sermon Obama heard a reverend deliver on a Sunday morning shortly after the death of Harold Washington, the black mayor of Chicago,
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/profiles/chi-070121-relig_wright,0,5184608.story?page=2&coll=chi_news_custom_religion_promo

Later he would base his 2004 keynote speech to the Democratic National Convention on a Wright sermon called "Audacity to Hope," --also the inspiration for Obama's second memoir, "The Audacity of Hope."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. LOL

Can the Clintons say anything that doesn't backfire?

[JorgeTheGood]

17. that pic ...

has already been debunked -- right straight out of PhotoShop -- LOL

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

No, it hasn't.

It's real.

[JackORoses]

27. no it has not, noone did any examination of the original, just digital copies

you can't say a photo is fake based on a copy.

[Zueda]

29. It's real. n/t

[ginnyinWI]

101. if that is true, that it is a photoshop--

is there a statement from the Hillary camp saying it's a photoshop?

[Blue State Bandit]

111. If it was fake, why no lawsuit against the "Today Show"?

DEBUNK MYTH....

DEBUNKED!

[JorgeTheGood]

126. It's fake ...

the photoshop experts have taken it apart and shown where the layering was done and the lack of cleanup on the layers. Or are all these experts wrong? Suddenly they don't know their own trade?

[ingac70]

178. Clinton hasn't denied the pic...

she just claims she "doesn't remember" having it taken.

[Qutzupalotl]

180. Sorry, no. Read the responses to that thread again. The OP was no expert.

I am, BTW. :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4297948&mesg_id=4298761

[Yael]

182. And as everyone who looked at it said, that pixilation comes in with scanning

But you run with it anyway.

I will believe it is a fake when Hillary throws an ashtray about it.

[anigbrowl]

185. That's why you don't have a link, I suppose.

[D23MIURG23]

203. Whats the big deal with the pic?

Its certainly not the most flattering she has taken (if it isn't fake), but I don't get the uproar. Is it just about her looks or am I missing something?

[monomach]

219. That fella in the middle that the Clintons are all cozy with

is Antoin Rezko. In a debate, Hillary bashed Obama for working for a law firm that did work with him (he's a slumlord).

She apparently didn't realize that a picture existed of her looking like his bestest friend in the whole wide world.

[D23MIURG23]

220. Thanks

I'd heard of Rezko but had no idea what he looked like.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Saw it coming a mile away.

[tyne]

11. This is why

I think that crap like this only helps Obama. It gets him ready for the repub slime and proves that yes, he is ready.

[sniffa]

14. I'm impressed by his rapid fire response team

He's clearly the better campaigner.

[RoadRage]

122. Yup.. for a guy who's supposedly going to get "walked on" by the republican

nominee, he sure knows how to counterpunch back quickly. He doesn't take the first swing, but he'll sure hit back harder then the punch he takes... and THAT is going to bode well for us this fall.

[smoogatz]

124. Agreed.

I'm impressed by his ability to counterpunch so far. But he'll need to go on the offensive against McCain.

[creeksneakers2]

191. He gets away with misdirecting and does it well

The issue isn't plagiarism. In fact, Howard Wolfson admitted Hillary may have plagiarized too. The issue was reality not fitting the image Obama projects of himself.

Obama casts himself as a brilliant orator whose gift will inspire Americans to create great change. In fact, he's not so brilliant. He's repeating canned lines. Its like someone claiming to be able to create miracles, then the truth comes out about how the trick was done.

What Obama is great at is changing the subject and getting the press and his followers to go along with him. Thus when he attacks Hillary for having long held ambitions for the White House and it turns out Obama had the same ambitions himself he's able to change the story to one about him being attacked for something he said in kindergarten. And now Obama hides the unmasking of the deception of his basic case for himself and he's able to turn it into a debate about whether Hillary plagiarized or not.

Being able to redirect bickering subjects is a good skill and it will serve him well if he can continue to use it against McCain. It won't be as easy though. The media doesn't hate McCain like it hates Hillary.

[RoadRage]

271. Obama casts himself as a brilliant orator....

No - the media, voters, the PUBLIC cast Obama as a brilliant orator - he doesn't do this himself.

Additionally, you can still be a great Orator, and repeat lines. When he was repeating "I have a dream" no one thought he came up with that himself, yet he was still viewed as a great speaker. And, honestly the only line he used that was possibly plagerized is "Just Words". 2 words. I don't think that most of the people who support Obama now think because he didn't come up with those all on his own - he's no longer a great speaker... or a great candidate.

Truthfully, most politicians don't even attempt to write their own speaches. Obama writes a large portion of his... so the difference between someone writing a speach for him that said "Just Words", in which Obama would not have given credit to anyone else, and Obama borrowing the phrase from his good friend with complete permission is what?

It's blown out of proportion.. WAY out of proportion.. that's what!

[marshall]

242. If he can take on the Clinton machine

he can handle anybody's goons, flunkies, and thugs.

[stahbrett]

79. you plagiarized "coming a mile away", didn't you??? :D (eom)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

84. Also plagiarized Julius Caesar. (Vidi)

Veni. Vidi. Vici.

[NJmaverick]

5. The truth is like Garlic to a vampire for Hillary and her supporters

[Carolina]

144. LOL, love it!

So true. Team Hillary can't handle the truth...

Oh and regarding that line, do I need to give credit to the screenwriters of the film: A Few Good Men! LOL

[Voltaire99]

236. LOL! They're also like shambling zombies moaning horribly...

except instead of "Braaaaaai-i-i-ns," it's "Don-a-a-a-a-a-a-tions!"

[SoFlaJet]

6. but, but, but

Obama stole the "turn the page" theme from Bob Seger

[Whisp]

48. no, no, no, it was stolen from Gutenburg.

the dude who invented the printing press. the original page turner.

:rofl:
in fact, we are all plagiarists. Every word has been used many times over. Can't we get some originality going here?
Unviroowlist Glodhtuangists!

[knowledgeispwr]

8. Who didn't see this coming?

I mean really. LoL.

[GarbagemanLB]

9. Awesome! Obama's got Hillary on the run.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

99. expect her to cry some more at next public event

poor poor Hillary, people are sexist, people are mean, people pick on the Clintons, she has weathered right wing attacks for SOOOOO long!

Boo Hoo.

:sarcasm:

[joeybee12]

10. Pathetic...if you don't know what a play on words is, and what turning

someone's words against them is as compared to stealing someone else's stump speech, then you really are an Obama supporter.

[tyne]

32. stealing?

If you don't know that stealing a phrases requires doing so without permission then, I don't know who you support.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

102. Obama copyrighted “Bring Our Country Together” ? WOW!

He makes an ass out of himself with this one

[stahbrett]

76. I think you plagiarized "stump speech"! :-D (eom)

[Obamaniac]

104. lol

Keep this up...this is the funniest thread i've read here in a long time.

[Dr. Strange]

261. You just plagiarized "lol."

I used that last week in a campaign speech. Have you no shame?

[IndianaGreen]

12. Considering how much flak Joe Biden caught for "borrowing" Neil Kinnock's speech

At least Biden had the decency to apologize, a word that does not exist in the Hillary lexicon.

[HeraldSquare212]

24. I never understood that thing with Biden - it still confuses me that t was such a big deal.

Didn't it end his campaign?

[IndianaGreen]

44. It ended his campaign, which I thought was unfortunate.

I understood Biden's explanation of how he found himself borrowing something Kinnock had said about himself. Biden apologized. It should have ended then.

[SoxFan]

60. it was shopped to Dukakis-friendly reporters

Dukakis aide John Sasso sent the video tape to a Dukakis-friendly reporter with the New York Times. The Times and the Boston Globe, both papers that strongly supported Dukakis, whipped the story into a media frenzy. Even though video evidence emerged that showed Biden giving the same speech with proper credit for Kinnock many times, the Dukakis shills in the press kept running with it.

The press also made a big deal over a supposed plagiarism incident in law school, which was later shown to be a case of lazy and sloppy footnoting. They also chose to ignore the matter of Dukakis' campaign getting its hands on confidential academic records from a Syracuse University employee who supported Dukakis.

Oh, and I think you can probably guess who John Sasso is supporting this year...

[IndianaGreen]

66. According to John Sasso, Hillary is a "thoroughbred."

That's what he said in an op-ed this past December:

http://boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/12/22/why_clinton_will_prevail/

[Carolina]

145. yeah, a horse

's ass

[Binka]

229. Oh No And Yuck I Bet On The Horses And I Wouldn't Throw a Dime At That Glue Bucket

She wouldn't make it past the eighth pole in a $5000.00 claiming race. Thoroughbred my ass.

[HeraldSquare212]

100. Right, I forgot the law school thing.

Just ridiculousness piled onto ridiculousness.

[Muttocracy]

192. thank you for that quick clear explanation - wish more people understood it nt

[karynnj]

83. The reason was that it was text that defines the speaker

by leaving out the attribution - which he usually included, it made it seem like he was claiming as his own Kinnock's life story - when it didn't really match his own. If I remember right, Biden was not the front runner and what it did was prevent him from being a stronger challenger. Some one on Dukakis' staff caught this event on tape and ran with it - though the technology was different - this has something in common with the Republicans taping everything in 2004 and the Utube stuff in 2006. The media, for whatever reason, validated it and conflated it with a college (law school ?) accusation.

[Divernan]

251. It wasn't Biden's speeches - it was a paper he plagiarized in law school.

Google Biden and plagiarism and you'll come up with a variety of explanations of why it drove him out of the race. Initially, it was using something like 6 sentences from a Brit's speech. There was a brouhaha in the press, but Biden kept on campaigning. But THEN it was discovered that he had plagiarized a law school paper by using only one footnote while copying verbatim multiple pages from another source. One source claims Biden got an F for the course. Another claims that later on (after the aborted pres. campaign), Biden went back to the law school and got the record expunged in some manner to give him a clean record. I don't know which version is the most accurate, but if Biden were a VP candidate, as some have suggested, the whole mess would be endlessly dissected in the press again.

[Seabiscuit]

13. What a lame-ass non-defense of his indefensible plagiarism.

"Yes we can" is not even "Obama's line". It's the english translation of Cesar Chavez' line, "Si se puede".

The pot calling the kettle black defense is, in essence, an admission: "guilty as charged."

And "bring our country together" is a hackneyed phrase used by countless politicians over the decades. Obama's claiming that as his own as well?

OMFG.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

[Araxen]

23. Ahhhh look a dilusional Hillobot!

[Seabiscuit]

74. Is that the best you can do? Did you miss my avatar? I'm not a Clinton supporter.

I voted for Edwards on Super Tuesday.

And BTW, learn to spell "delusional" - it would go a long way towards dispelling the impression you give that it's too big a word for you.

[bjobotts]

168. take you blinders off Obamabot and read this:

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[LiberalFighter]

262. All from the heart.

Wouldn't you think that if a speech was from the heart they would use their own words?

So many times I have heard speeches from candidates at different events and the words are the same. Parts might be different depending on the audience. I've been jaded by the speeches especially by the likes of Senator Bayh. He makes one want to go to sleep.

Most of the people on this board don't attend many of the rallies, conventions or other political events where they will hear the speakers. And know what is happening.

[CorpGovActivist]

215. .

[writes3000]

38. Seriously, Look at this video and tell me...

that there isn't a legitimate claim of plagiarism. C'mon.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQD-MsSpfI

[dkf]

53. Your video...my ears! Ack.

[my3boyz]

43. The point is Hillary was not using that in the campaign

until he had success with it. When he started winning she started to repeat whatever he said. She is a pathetic piece of trash!

[thereismore]

258. Come on. Trash? I support Obama, but trash? Come on, will you? Be civil. nt

[JackORoses]

47. when it comes down to it, noone has a copyright on words, douchebag

Someone said "Yes we can" before Obama

Someone said the same things Deval Patrick said before him. Why then do you insist that his words be patented and illegalized against all future use?

How many times has someone mentioned the JFK line,"Ask not what your country ...." in a speech?
Were they all thieves?
No.

Look at what you Hillarites have come down to.
Do you even believe in what you're saying and doing anymore, or have you just invested too much in Hillary to let go now?

[redstate_democrat]

154. Exactly...

If these "academics" actually knew what they were talking about, they would at least have to concede that no plagiarism took place here. No one has ownership of an idea or word in writing. I thought that the people who worked in her campaign were at least intellectually average. This just proves me wrong, I guess. What is this campaign coming to? Oh, and as Moses once said as he was leading the Israelites from Egypt, "this is ridiculous".

ROFL!

[flyarm]

160. actually ..you are wrong..

when you state:"No one has ownership of an idea or word in writing."



plagiarizing
One entry found.

plagiarize



Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: \ˈplā-jə-ˌrīz also -jē-ə-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pla·gia·rized; pla·gia·riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
Date: 1716
transitive verb
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb
: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
— pla·gia·riz·er noun

[ecdab]

239. So every time Hillary uses a speech writer

and doesn't give them credit she is committing "plagiarism" as you understand the word? Come on. This whole thing is so silly.

[bjobotts]

169. What a lame justification...and name calling like a child.You are blind by default

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[bjobotts]

170. So Lincoln didn't write the Getttysburg Address because words all used before?

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[creeksneakers2]

193. Please don't scroll identical posts

If somebody isn't impressed the first time they won't be on the second or third.

[creeksneakers2]

194. Please don't scroll identical posts

If somebody isn't impressed the first time they won't be on the second or third.

[Bread and Circus]

80. I get the idea and the idea is this...

idiots like you go on ignore, welcome to the trashbin.

[Seabiscuit]

89. I'm amazed I didn't already welcome you to my "ignore" button.

Now yours is the 4th of 6 responses to my post that read "ignored".

[Eric J in MN]

85. Using one short paragraph for a long political speech previously used by another politician,

...isn't what I'd call "plagiarism."

If the issue were a blog-post, then I'd say Obama should have given Deval Patrick a link, but when giving a speech it isn't necessarily practical to cite one's sources.

[Seabiscuit]

88. It isn't just one short paragraph. It's numerous identical phrases and sentences.

According to wikipedia: "Plagiarism is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of (or incorporating material from) someone else's written or creative work, in whole or in part, into one's own without adequate acknowledgement."

By using exact phrases and sentences previously spoken by Patrick without any acknowledgement whatsoever, Obama is most certainly implying they are his own words, when they in fact are not.

[Eric J in MN]

116. Can you tell me specifically what...

..."identical phrases and sentences" besides the paragraph in the "Don't Tell Me Words Don't Matter!" speech?

[pointsoflight]

227. From his national campaign co-chair. You forgot to mention that.

Honest mistake, I'm sure.

[pointsoflight]

228. Oh, and you neglect to mention that Patrick took many of his messages from Obama 2004.

Another honest mistake, I'm sure.

[flyarm]

164. it doesn't matter what "you" would call plagiarism...

what you consider plagiarism is irrelevant..

this is the definition plagiarism is:


plagiarize



Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: \ˈplā-jə-ˌrīz also -jē-ə-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pla·gia·rized; pla·gia·riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
Date: 1716
transitive verb
: to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source
intransitive verb
: to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
— pla·gia·riz·er noun



Teachers deal with it all the time..what you think about it doesn't matter one bit!

http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/home-aol.htm

[Barrymores Ghost]

136. The English translation of "Si se puede"....

...is "IF you can."

Sí, se puede," with an accented letter "i," means "Yes, YOU can."

"Sí, podemos" means "Yes, WE can.

I'm being nitpicky because you're being ridiculous.

[Botany]

161. Que?

or is that K?

Yo soy tonto gringo.

[Seabiscuit]

213. So I don't have an accented "i" on my keyboard. So sue me.

[Seabiscuit]

268. And according to Wikipedia, you're full of shit.

"Sí se puede is usually translated in English, colloquially, as "yes, we can." The more literal translation that the United Farm Workers uses is "Yes, It can be done!"<7> <8>
Senator Barack Obama adopted the English version "Yes, we can!" early in his presidential campaign, and notably revived use of the chant after his second place finish in the 2008 New Hampshire primary.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sí_se_puede

My wife is from Peru, speaks Spanish fluently, and she was the first one who told me, after hearing Barack's "Yes we can" chant that he was lifting Cesar Chavez' phrase, in Spanish "Si se puede" (yeah, so sue me because my keyboard doesn't have accents).

[Barrymores Ghost]

269. You miss the point, my little pony.

And I studied Spanish for ten years, and my point was to point out your pettiness, not to make some grand distinction between dialectic idioms. Irony being lost on the unintentionally ironic, you might say.

That being said, this whole "plagiarism" meme that you and Hill are trying frantically to make an issue is failing, and it reeks of pure desperation on the part of her campaign. Additionally, the blowback will be fast and fierce.

So, this is what she is reduced to. This is the remaining arrow in the Clinton quiver. This is your "substantive, experienced" candidate. Pure, undiluted Rovian shit-flinging.

Aintcha proud???

Stick a fork in 'er, Texas...she's done.

[JVS]

147. So when Hillary is called a war supporter, the squeals of "he voted to fund it" are an admission...

of guilt?

[Seabiscuit]

214. You betcha. But it also means Obama's a hypocrite for claiming he's opposed the war

"since before it started". "Since" means from then until now. But his record of voting to fund it since he joined the Senate directly contradicts his own words.

That's what Bill Clinton was referring to when he mentioned "fantasyland": Obama's hypocrisy.

None of this is meant to justify or excuse Hillary's vote, or to justify or excuse her failure to apologize and admit her mistake ever since.

[redstate_democrat]

156. But do you not see that

THIS is exactly what Obama is trying to point out? Do we have to spell it out for you? You are making his case with this argument. Think about it.

"Yes we can" is not even "Obama's line". It's the english translation of Cesar Chavez' line, "Si se puede".

The pot calling the kettle black defense is, in essence, an admission: "guilty as charged."

And "bring our country together" is a hackneyed phrase used by countless politicians over the decades. Obama's claiming that as his own as well?

OMFG.

I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

[Barrymores Ghost]

195. I'm afraid the irony is lost on these dimbulbs. n/t

[polmaven]

246. Actually, "Yes we can"

is a twist on Governor Patrick's campaign theme, "Together We Can".

I was/am a strong supporter of Governor Patrick. I don't mind that he is working with Senator Obama. Most of Obama's supporters here, though, seem to be missing the point. An earlier post spoke of the image the Senator has built for himself as an unscripted, inspiring orator, but then he used that entire section without attribution, which was meant to allow people to believe it was his own thoughts.

I heard the Governor give that speech, and I was impressed by it then. They are great words.

All Senator Obama needed to do was add something like "As a friend once said" before he began the speech.

[LiberalFighter]

260. Yes, I wonder what other words or phrases Obama will claim belongs to him.

What a dipshit! By the way, if you heard dipshit before I started the word. Seriously! Back before 1986 I watched an old movie involving sheep and cattle ranchers. The word sheep dip was used in the movie. I modified it to dipshit and have used it since.

[BeyondGeography]

Well-played...and richly deserved

:thumbsup:

[kennetha]

15. Guess the plagiarism charge hurts

Otherwise they wouldn't be responding. But what exactly are they trying to say. My opponent plagiarized me, so I can plagiarize somebody else. Except none of this looks like plagiarizing to me. THe use of a phrase like "turn the page" in a completely different context is not plagiarism.

Wow! What a lame response by the Obama campaign.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. doesn't matter, as you and I know, it's all about perception....

and everytime the Clintons think they've one upped Obama, it backfires BIGTIME. Talk about "lame". I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Dawg's popularity rating isn't in the single digits by the end of this campaign. You guys are priceless.

[my3boyz]

49. No matter how insignificant they think the charge is they can't

let it dangle out there. You have to respond immediately or it keeps building (ala swift boat).

[ginnyinWI]

103. the point is that it is NOT plagarism. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

18. wow! i'll say this for the obama campaign, they will not be

swiftboated by the Hillarites. I thought it was much ado about nothing, but since they put it out there, let's roll. as a matter of fact, let's pick through every speech she and Bill have ever given to make sure they've never "plagarized".

GOOOOBAMA!

[tabatha]

28. Yes, and the difference is worse

Hillary did NOT talk to Obama about using his words.
Obama's words were not in the general US lexicon - as were the one's that both Obama and Patrick used.

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. you got that right....

:thumbsup:

[RamboLiberal]

19. I will say this for the Obama campaign - damn they're fast

Which is another reason I think the Repukes will be no problem for them in the GE - they're not going to sit on any Swiftboating for 3+ weeks like the idiots in the Kerry campaign did.

This particular attack is so damn lame. I bet many of us if accused of using just words would've come up with a very similar speech and had never heard either Patrick or Obama. It's a damn logical response.

Does Hillary ever steal Bill Clinton's words?

[enough already]

131. The Hillbots tried to swiftboat Obama

And got burned.

[bjobotts]

223. Obama turned it into a plagarism charge. Hill campaign just said he was acting like he was creating

I thought he was being original and it was coming straight from his heart...but it was disappointing to see it was an act and he was using someone else's words as if they were his own. The term "plagiarism" was never used...but O turns it into that to belittle and misdirect attention from his acting like he was speaking from the heart and creating words from inspiration. So apologetic for his phoniness...you refuse to even acknowledge his behavior. Forget what Hillary might or might not have said and just look at what he did. It is disappointing.

[madmunchie]

20. Yes we will, Yes we will.....HRC STOP before you lose all of your self respect

[bjobotts]

173. Seriously, become informed. Read this and see what its all about

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[Recursion]

211. Are you suggesting people think politicians ad lib their speeches?

it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script.

Err... am I unusual in that I know candidates read their speeches from a script?

[bjobotts]

224. /Different when you are led to believe it is his words coming from the heart

[Recursion]

267. Wait, I still don't get it. Are you actually suggesting...

...people think Obama's speeches are not pre-written? Or that he doesn't have speechwriters?

[sfam]

21. Why on earth would Obama waste his time with this?

If there was ever a sign that Obama has too much money and resources, this is it.

[GarbagemanLB]

31. Apparently you didn't follow the 2004 elections.

Swiftboating will not be something Obama and his team will allow to happen to them. This rapid response proves he is capable in a general. Go Obama!

[sfam]

39. Sorry, but this doesn't qualify as swiftboating...

This is just a silly story. It would die instantly regardless.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

54. many prominent attacks has started as a 'silly' story and been allowed to grow unchecked n/t

[sfam]

69. Fair enough...but this is still a sign that he's flush with cash...

and that's a good thing. :)

[Bodhi BloodWave]

72. That point i can't really argue without looking silly myself

:) :pals:

[Cha]

222. This qualifies has another garbage shot

from hilaryland that is going down in flames.. hilary better watch out or she's going to get scorched instead of doing the scorching .

[RamboLiberal]

33. Cause the Obama campaign studied what happened to Gore

and Kerry when crap like this was allowed to fester and be spread by the f'in MSM endlessly w/o a good response!

This is another reason I think this campaign has run circles around Hillary and is the better campaign to run against all the crap the Repukes will try to throw out!

[SoFlaJet]

59. great post Rambo

smart thinking by the Obama camp and a perfect explanation by RL in one simple sentence;

Cause the Obama campaign studied what happened to Gore and Kerry when crap like this was allowed to fester and be spread by the f'in MSM endlessly w/o a good response!

[Bodhi BloodWave]

Actually he is making sure not to do the same mistake Kerry did

Its a rather wise course of action i think to kill an attack before it can get spread to far

It always amuses me tho how some will say 'obama is wasting resources and time debunking and fighting against this or that attack' and the times he does not fight back/ignores the attack they claim he is weak and unable to fight back(just how can somebody please people like that?)

The above is not so much in reference to you as it is a general theme on here or so it seems

[my3boyz]

22. I'm glad they released this

I do think Obama should be more careful in the future. It does not take much for Hillbots to blow something up. I chose Obama because I know he is better than her. It is not enough for him to say that she does the same thing. I don't think any of Obama's supporters will leave him based on this story. I don't think it will prevent others from joining him because Hillary looks like a hypocrit for pushing it when she does the same thing.

[snappyturtle]

25. I guess Sen. Clinton finds some value in "cheap words"! She's desperate. n/t

[NJSecularist]

26. The quickness of Obama's response gives me a lot of hope for the general election

It tells you that Obama isn't going to let attacks on his character just sit and fester like Kerry did. He is going to try and dispel them quickly. That's a good sign going forward when and if he faces the repug political machine in the general election. He won't back down.

[ginnyinWI]

107. I've been very impressed with that, too.

The Clinton camp put out a negative ad in Wisconsin this week, and the Obama camp had a rebuttal ad up within hours. The Clintons had a new ad out the next day--probably meant as part of a one-two punch package--but that ad of Obama's kinda messed it up for them. Then later, there was a statement by them that Obama had launched an "attack ad". Absurd! And as the polls show, it didn't work.

:rofl:

[JorgeTheGood]

so Obama is admitting

to stealing others works but claims it's OK cause Hillary did the same ??? LOL

[GarbagemanLB]

34. So he stole those words even though he was given permission to use them by the original speaker?

[GoldieAZ49]

67. words are not copyrighted

it is like saying HEY I know those numbers, I should be the lottery winner, he stole those numbers from ME!!

Good Grief.

[bjobotts]

175. When the words appear to be coming from your inspiration-are borrowed

When you act like you are inspired to be creative but you don't tell that somebody else said this it gives the wrong impression totally. read this:

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[GoldieAZ49]

177. so the fuss is about the use of "Just words"

Because we all know who said:

'I have a dream.'

'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.'

'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.'



So all this fuss is about two words: "Just words"

And those were not original to either because they were used to answer their opponents accusations that all they have to offer is "Just words"



talk about picking the specks out of flyshit!!!!!!!

How you all can engage in this all day with a straight face is amazing. No wonder Repubs win!

[RamboLiberal]

37. Get a better argument

Patrick has no problem with Obama using the same riff he did. And that's all it was a riff of words. Any DU'er who wouldn't come up with a very similar speech w/o hearing Patrick or Obama would be dense.

Bet Hill never riffed on Bill's speeches - NOT!

[my3boyz]

57. Obama had permission..Hillary did not!

[bjobotts]

226. He didn't have my permission...to let me believe it was his words from the heart

[pointsoflight]

230. Had permission, AND they are themes that Patrick borrowed from Obama's 2004 campaign

[Hepburn]

30. K&R....

...guess Hillary and her minions should stop pointing fingers until they are sure they have nothing to hide!

:applause: Thanks for the OP!

[JorgeTheGood]

95. What happened to Obama's originaltiy ? n/t

[K Gardner]

35. Does anybody know who first used the phrase "cowboy diplomacy"? Because I heard

Hillary using it in her speeches recently and don't quite remember that it was her who "coined" it? We can add that one to the list if we can find a source.

[ekwhite]

205. God knows, that one goes back to the Reagan era

George HW may have used that about the time he talked about voodoo economics.

[Justyce]

40. Uh, yeah. "Fired up" is so freakin' common, he might as well

claim "vote for me" too... this is ridiculous. And "stealing his line" "yes we can" -- gee, I've never heard anyone say 'yes, we can' before. Cripes. Although it is Bob the Builder's slogan. :eyes: I am officially sickend by this.

[hfojvt]

41. I think they both stole "turn the page"

from Bob Seger :P

[Clovis Sangrail]

42. the 'yes we can' chant and the 'turn the page' things... sure

but "fired up and ready to go"? 0.o

That's not exactly a unique phrase, and from what I saw she didn't use it as a chant... just as a phrase.
My father used the phrase extensively as I was growing up.
That doesn't mean Obama was stealing from my father.

The "bring our country together" thing is seems similar to me.
Just about every presidential candidate I can think of has used that rhetoric.

[writes3000]

45. Here's Another Hillary Video

Gee, I wonder where she got the inspiration to use this catch-phrase.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQD-MsSpfI

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. Oh My God Use Some Critical Thinking Ability. You Really Think Dime A Dozen Cliche Statements Are

the same as what he was in violation of? This doesn't even begin to equate with what he did, and it makes those thinking so look like utter fools in my opinion. The difference between them is a stark one, and I'd wager you know that.

Things are getting too silly around here.

[Justyce]

56. Exactly. nt

[Dr. Strange]

266. YOU EVIL FUCKER!

Curse you and your sigline! Why oh why did I click?

[K Gardner]

51. What about all the lines she plagiarized from John Edwards? "Its PERSONAL to me" !

[IndianaGreen]

68. Today is Monday before a primary. I predict Hillary will cry today!

Hillary and Bill can tear up on command. They are both gifted liars and manipulators.

[K Gardner]

92. I think she jumped the gun on that.. got all emotional yesterday, I think. Oops !

[fascisthunter]

52. God... That's Just Pathetic

what an embarrassment for the Democratic Party. Fuck the DLC!

[JimGinPA]

55. It's Amazes Me...

How Hillary's camp hasn't figured out that every time they try something like this it ends up blowing up in her face. I hope they keep going negative - it's the best thing they can do for Obama

[calmblueocean]

58. This is exactly the WRONG way to go.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

They've just bought into the frame of "stolen language" by accusing Hillary of "stealing" their own lines.

Patrick has told the NYT that he and Obama have been collaborating for over a year. If they'd stuck with the theme of collaboration, they could even have used that to broaden their impact by saying that the message they have both campaigned on is a universal message whose time has come. They could then point out instances where Hillary has used some of their words to point out the *universality* of their message.

Now it's going to devolve into a he-said/she-said, you-stole-this/no-you-stole-this battle that will end up hurting them both, and reinforcing the factually incorrect frame that collaboration on a political message can ever even BE stealing.

God, I thought his people were smarter than this.

[ProSense]

61. It was a very smart move to expose Hillary's hypocrisy! They have the NYT article,

which they can cite over and over again as to what really happened.

[tyne]

63. I disagree

The MSM has been going nuts on this all morning. This gives Obama talking heads ammunition to COUNTER the Hillary talking heads this afternoon on the shows. If they want to cry "stealing"...then they're stupid...given reality. Obama will also be able to interject that he didn't cry when Hillary "borrowed" his words. Why? Because he's ready to turn the page on this type of crap.

I do know what you mean though. I thought the same thing until I heard the idiotic uproar.

[calmblueocean]

78. I haven't been around a TV today, so I don't know what they're saying

although I can imagine.

I read in a post of yours below where you said the idea is to raise the question ("Did she plagiarize?") rather than answer it ("She plagiarized!") and I couldn't agree more. Rapid response is good, but he is making this worse by adopting the frame that similar language is stealing.

[FlyingSquirrel]

65. Smart, smart, smart.

When someone attacks you, if you only defend then in the media's eyes you look "defensive" and they spin it that way. And when you look "defensive", it means you have something to defend (in other words, like you did something wrong.)

No, the Obama campaign has it right. FIRST you launch an IMMEDIATE counteroffensive. THEN you defend yourself while the other campaign is also defending themselves. Pretty soon the whole thing turns into a big zero (if not even a plus for you).

Smart.

I wish the Kerry campaign had been this smart.

[tyne]

71. And you don't

defend by claiming that Hillary plagiarized. You defend by putting out this proof and simply ask, "Did Hillary Plagiarize"?

That's how it's done.

[calmblueocean]

73. What's to defend?

That's the point. Their press release accuses Hil of 'stealing' their rhetoric.

Now the argument is all about who stole what. Which is a stupid way to frame an argument when you never stole a damn thing.

Obviously, a rapid response is a good thing, but it should've been focused not on accusing Hillary of stealing, but of lying. Collaboration isn't plagiarism, and the Obama message is a universal one built on ideas whose time has come. This line of 'she stole too' just drags both of them into the mud.

[4_Legs_Good]

62. I hope he attacks McCain too...

I lost all respect for McCain when he smooched GWB on stage in 2004, but I downright got pissed at him in when he stole Obama's "Fired up and Ready to go" line after the Virginia primary, after being downright rude about Obama's Hope message.

I guess, I should just feel sorry for him. How damned pathetic he looked delivering it. Poor guy is going to get crushed.

David

[usregimechange]

64. Kerry would have never done something like that! Obama is not going to take any crap!

[FlyingSquirrel]

70. This is why I have been gravitating towards his campaign

I've been leaning his way for a long time but now more than ever because I see that he has surrounded himself with people who KNOW HOW TO RUN A CAMPAIGN. There was no hesitation. They were EXPECTING an attack and when it came, they responded IMMEDIATELY and APPROPRIATELY. Perfect. This is what we need. We don't need someone who will play the victim when the Repugs attack, we need someone who will fight back and play the media right instead of letting the media play them.

[fedupinBushcountry]

97. Kerry won the primaries

FYI, the swiftboaters came out during the primaries and he hit them back. So lets not trash Kerry who is an outspoken Obama advocate. OK?

[politicasista]

149. Yes, he has been an nice surrogate for Obama n/t

[blm]

134. You're wrong. You're just seeing a campaign less filtered by corpmedia -

Back in 2004, the corpmedia was in full protectBush mode and as Dan Rather has admitted it was because they were promised favorable rullings on media expansion.

[Eric J in MN]

77. Garbage. When Hillary Clinton calls Obama the The “No We Can’t” Candidate

...she isn't plagiarizing his "Yes, We Can" line, she's responding to it.

[stillcool]

81. That doesn't count...

rules don't count, endorsements don't count, certain states don't count, polls don't count. My Gosh, what does count? Oh yeah..35 years of 'experience' :rofl:

When told Hillary Clinton has experience because she has 8 years in the white house, Dick Morris stated “so has the pastry chef”.

[Occam Bandage]

82. This is why Obama will be the nominee. He runs a smart campaign. Hillary attacks,

Obama makes her look petty.

[McCamy Taylor]

86. Obama stole from John Edwards and Jimmy Carter, and all those phrases are cliches

Gimme a break.

[Ino]

87. The most pathetic instance of borrowing...

Clinton trying to whip her crowd into chanting "Yes We Will"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQD-MsSpfI

[K Gardner]

93. Yeah, that was pretty sad actually.

[Gman]

96. Borrowing? Obama owns that? Since when?

Obama stole it from the Hispanic community who has used it for literally decades. Si se puede.

[GarbagemanLB]

106. Oh. My. God. I love how she is so desperate to get a chant going at the end. haha

[meow mix]

232. haha yah

:rofl:

[Araxen]

91. K&R

:kick:

[Bread and Circus]

94. all the other links at that youtube link are Obama videos.... goes to prove the point.

[babylonsister]

105. "I’m stealing this line from my buddy (MA Gov.) Deval who stole a whole bunch of lines from me"

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/02/18/obama-s-quot-plagiarism-quot.aspx

Obama's "Plagiarism"

Mike and Noam have already done a great job explaining the ridiculousness of the Clinton campaign's charge that Obama plagiarized from Deval Patrick, but I thought I'd add one more point. Obama's already on record as admitting he borrows lines from Patrick (and vice versa). Stumping in New Hampshire last December, Obama said:

"But you know in the end, don’t vote your fears. I’m stealing this line from my buddy (Massachusetts Gov.) Deval Patrick who stole a whole bunch of lines from me when he ran for the governorship, but it’s the right one, don’t vote your fears, vote your aspirations. Vote what you believe."

I look forward to the Clintons' next desperate gambit.

[ginnyinWI]

108. nice find! n/t

[ProSense]

109. Hillary's campaign is now backtracking, claims doing this is no big deal

The Clinton Campaign Just Now...

February 18, 2008 11:33 AM

In a conference call just now the Clinton campaign would not guarantee that Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, has never used someone else's rhetoric without crediting them.

I asked Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson and Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass, if they could assure the public that neither Clinton nor McGovern has ever done what Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, did when he used the rhetoric of Gov. Deval Patrick without footnoting him.

They would not.

In fact, Wolfson seemed to say it wouldn't be as big a deal if it were discovered that Clinton had "lifted" such language.

"Sen. Clinton is not running on the strength of her rhetoric," Wolfson said.

Hmmmm.

So it's a big deal only because Obama's "rhetoric" is powerful and appealing?

[creeksneakers2]

199. Its a big deal because Obama's campaign centers around his

oratory skills. They claim his speeches are so inspirational that they'll change the world. It turns out Obama is more of a great borrower than a great orator. That's a big deal.

[Tarc]

110. The idiocy of the Obama cult knows no bounds these days

Comparing slogans that share similar words to the line-by-line plagiarism of Deval Patrick's speeches?

:rofl:

Stick forks in yourselves, boys & girls; you're done.

[RBInMaine]

113. To use "cult" is what is IDIOTIC.

Please sober up. To toss out silly crap like "cult" is what is ignorant and idiotic. You lose the argument as soon as you start chucking out crazy hyperbolic labels like that.

[Tarc]

115. Then stop acting like one?

:shrug:

Once the plagiarism story broke, there's been a veritable flood of half-assed "OMG LOOK WHAT HILLARY DID TOO!" shit around here that doesn't even remotely measure up to the Obama story. At all.

You and the other kool-aiders are doing the classic Karl Rove "scream a lie as loudly and as often as possible til the no longer question it" maneuvers here to bury the legitimate plagiarism story.

[Eurobabe]

152. Hillary is the one who looks like a smacked ass on this one

I say let the non-story die.

[RBInMaine]

200. So then you're a Hillary "Kool-Aider"

Hillary LIED, yes LIED to the American people blatently on national TV in the fall debate when she said that she opposed driver's licenses for illegals AFTER she had already said "it makes sense."
She has copied Obama on "fired up and ready to go," she has copied him on "Yes we can," she copied Bill at Coretta Scott King's funeral with "her send me speech" (virtually identical to Bill's 2004 convention speech line), she has flip flopped, parsed, spun, evaded, and triangulated to the nth degree. So if she and her people are going to make hay out of Obama's use of the same refrain used by his friend Deval Patrick, then she opens herself up to the same criticisms.

[Carolina]

146. "Stick forks in" yourself

a straight 8 state win on top of previous victories doesn't sound like we're done at all.

Nice try.

[From The Left]

247. Hillary's Harpies Are the Idiots

But soon you will be enjoying her concession speech to Barack Obama.

[RBInMaine]

112. Hillary SUPPORTERS are stealing "Yes we can."

There is video of a rally from just the other day with Hillary supporters shouting "Yes we can!" and then Hillary responded to her crowd with, "Yes we will!" Give me a break. If the Hillary people try to make hay out of this they'll get clobbered for the hundreds of lines they've ripped off others.

[Eurobabe]

114. Triple SNAP in Z formation

Three words: Fab-U-Lous.

(courtesy of Men on Film, Living Color)

[TooBigaTent]

117. This is EXACTLY the kind of attack response that I hate to see either of these two

engage in. It is the equivalent of a little kid whining, "But you cheated first."

Talk about the god-damned issues and what you will do to fix the disaster that America has become. Every time I see this kind of answer (though it really is not an answer to anything), I am convinced that neither BO nor HC are really trying to earn my vote. They both want to destroy their opponent WITHIN the party instead of focusing on the real enemy that they will face after the convention.

But, after months (that seem like years) of this shit, we are supposed to dutifully and mindlessly traipse to the polls in November and obediently press the button for someone who "at least, they are better than McCain" - what a motivation. The candidates and their supporters are turning off a lot of "the base" because we could swallow the negativity if (1) we thought they would fight the rethugs as hard and (2) we had any delusions that we would be electing a liberal. Keep it up and the results will not be pleasant, for any of us to the left of the DLC.

[Mme. Defarge]

118. Damn the torpedoes,

full speed ahead!

[Major Hogwash]

119. It's true, she doesn't have a single original idea of her own.

Maybe she'll drop out tomorrow after she loses in Hawaii and Wisconsin.

She probably doesn't care about the Democratic party anymore either.

[Perry Logan]

121. Further proof the Obama campaign is staffed by high-school students.

[Carolina]

148. well gee, some damn smart one cause last

I checked he's winning!

[npincus]

123. this needs a video w/all cited aboved followed by YouTube posting

[elixir2]

125. These don't fit the definition of plagiarism and are a vast overstatement...

"Plagiarism is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of (or incorporating material from) someone else's written or creative work, in whole or in part, into one's own without adequate acknowledgement."

[Bread and Circus]

130. It sounds like plagiarism just as much as what Obama did. It's a non-case in both instances...

but seeing as how the Clinton campaign wants to be a bunch of dipshits, let them suck on it.

It's a lot worse for her to pilfer Obama's material than Obama to borrow his friend's few lines.

I think in the eyes of the average voter, all of this makes Clinton look worse.

Oh and welcome to ignore, I hope you like the trashbin. << update, I checked your profiles and both elixir and elixir2 profiles are essentially the same. Why in the hell do you feel a need to hide behind a new account?

[usregimechange]

127. Kick!

[enough already]

128. LMAO!

Too damn funny! But this is to be expected when all your campaign has got left is slime borne of desperation.

[Political Heretic]

132. ROFLOL. Clinton Campaign: Ready to Fail from Day One.

God these people seem like amateurs.

Did they know KNOW that this would happen to them? That in reality all candidates lift from other candidates and that the moment they went all victim mode and started crying there was going to be fifty clips of Hillary doing the exact same thing?

How stupid are the people running her campaign?

[zulchzulu]

133. I hope the Hillbots keep bringing this up..it's going to backfire badly

K&R

[johnnydrama]

135. bingo

if you want to find a line of attack on your opponent, make sure your candidate hasn't done the same thing only 10x worse.

[JKaiser]

137. That's so funny! He copied a speech, I say phrases like "Yes we can" all the time.. and

I guess I copied obama too.. HE must have invented the phrase " Yes we can" That is soo funny! The point is that Obama uses fancy speeches to reach people but he does not provide much detail to what he will do.. He is nothing without his speeches.. Now we see that he copies other peoples speeches, we begin to ask the question, Who is he? Where is his own voice? Just goes to show that he will say anything to be president!

[XemaSab]

138. SMACKDOWN!

:rofl:

[alteredstate]

139. k & r

[Egalia]

140. Hillary stole cliches, boohoo, but about YES WE CAN

Sorry Obama, cliches can't be stolen.

As to the United Farm Workers slogan: "Yes We Can", Obama supporters have been accusing Hillary of stealing the UFW slogan for a while now. The last time I noticed this was when Latinas chanted the slogan at one of Hillary's rallies in CA!

Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta came up with the UFW slogan back in 1972. The United Farm Workers endorsed Hillary. Dolores Huerta also endorsed her.

According to the accounts I've read, The UFW owns the slogan. They gave Obama permission to USE it (both camps can), but some in the UFW are very unhappy about Obama using it.

So, Obama is accusing Hillary of stealing the UFW's slogan?

I guess somebody needs to stop UFW members from using their slogan at Hillary's rallies!! LOL!

[spoiledrotten]

276. If we're going to stop something -

Let's STOP the Obama campaign - dead in it's tracks.

[Pryderi]

141. Nanos Gigantium Humeris Insidentes

[jenmito]

142. Obama mentioned those stolen quotes by Hillary when he was asked about this today.

He's good!

[Bonobo]

143. "It takes a village to plagiarize" -Hillary Clinton

[donheld]

151. Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark

I always thought this plagiarism crap would backfire on the Clintons. I still say Lucy and Ethel are running Hillary's campaign.

[redstate_democrat]

153. It would seem as if

the Clinton campaign fell right into a trap set by the Obama campaign, huh? lol. They just can't catch a break. I mean, really? Plagiarism? Is THAT the best they can do? They accused him of plagiarizing phrases that are so ingrained in our society that they need no crediting. Who in her campaign comes up with this stuff? They need to be fired ASAP. I am so embarrassed for her campaign. Just watching her surrogates try to defend this argument is just embarrassing. It looks like desperation. Then to see Obama basically shrug it off with a look on his face like he wanted to laugh his ass off just makes this accusation look even more dumb. Please Hillary, hold on to some of your dignity!

[MidwestTransplant]

155. So Deval Patrick tells Obama to use his line in a speech and that plagerism?

Soooooooooooooo desperate now. Pretty pathetic.

[goodhue]

157. you bet

[BlueStater]

158. So he owns "fired up" and "turn the page"?

83 fucking recs for this bullshit. Unbelievable.

[FrenchieCat]

162. He owns "Fired up and ready to go" as much as Hillary believes that

Mr. Patrick owns "Just words".

[spoiledrotten]

167. Own Words - ROFLMAO

Obama only uses other's words because he ain't bright enough to use his own. Oh well, I can just see it coming, another vote for McCain.

[geiger]

159. thank you for posting all the details. the HRC campaign is totally transparent

amd people are seeing thru it.

[bjobotts]

166. Really..you aren't seeing through it you just closed your eyes, read this

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[my2sense]

163. K & R

[democrat_nanny]

171. Next up from the Clinton Campaign

Proof that Obama hijacked 99% of his material and persona from Bill Clinton. Hmm...maybe THAT'S why the things Hillary Clinton says sound familiar. Anyone who has been paying attention to politics for more than them three months all the OMG BARACK OBAMA MAKES ME WANT TO GO VOTE AND HE'S SO WONDERFUL AND WOOO WOOO..... will recognize the things Obama has said as repeats of Bill Clinton and, whatever your baseless opinion on their marriage happens to be, it makes sense that Bill and Hillary Clinton would speak similar to one another since they've been in each others lives for so long.

But, that's right, you all just started paying attention last month so...this is all new to you. And, I know you think "new" is a good thing but, and this is probably pointless to bring up because you weren't paying attention in 2000 either, this outsider politics game Obama is playing sounds a lot like what the current guy said to get in office. And, as it turns out, "learning on the job" doesn't quite work for PRESIDENT.

[Beausoir]

172. Wow. That's really weak. And really juvenile.

Pathetic. And completely unsurprising.

[Skittles]

197. you are correct

it's not a great defense to say, "SHE DOES IT TOO!". Something we learned from our parents when we were....five years old.

[Politicalboi]

174. So desperate

Then Hillary better talk to Ann Coulter before she works on her campaign for her. I can't believe the Clinton's. In the 90's I loved watching Bill speak. He was like Obama in a sense. Speeches are what got Bill elected. That and Al Gore. I just hate to see them go this low.

[bjobotts]

176. Obama also said We the people hold these truths to be self evident...

his is how-"yes we can" didn't come from Obama either- read this Updated at 12:41 AM

During a conference call this morning, Howard Wolfson had this to say. Via Mark Halperin:

"If you're going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own." - Howard Wolfson

Rhetorical flourishes are inspiring, especially when they're authentic. The problem comes when they're canned. Jake Tapper has a good run down on Obama's convenient oratory. It would be one thing if they came from the heart, or if what he was saying was actually original. Unfortunately, they don't and they aren't. They've all been said before. "Yes, we can reuse slogans!" says Ben Smith. "You bet your life we can," quips Deval Patrick. Si Se Puede. The word bamboozled comes to mind.

Deval Patrick in October, 2006:

" ... All I have to offer is words, just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. 'Ask not what your county can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' Just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

Barack Obama in Wisconsin, February 16th, this past Saturday, as he tries to con Wisconsin voters in preparation for Tuesday's primary:

"Don't tell me words don't matter. 'I have a dream.' Just words. 'We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal.' Just words. 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself.' Just words. Just speeches."(plus he was reading from an index card)

A reader from Massachusetts emailed me this last night:

... Guess what the lead-off story was on the local broadcast news tonight? Yes, "Plagiarism?" It was all about how Obama's "just words" riff was strikingly similar to Deval Patrick's speech from 2006. The story included a grainy video of Patrick delivering his speech, and then the clip from Obama's speech the other night. The reporter mentioned that the two shared campaign strategist, and that borrowing from others' campaigns wasn't that uncommon. However, it could cause a problem for Obama because it raises the idea that he may be just reading from a script. Then cut to the Hillary Clinton saying it's going to take more than speeches, it will take hard work.


It's what the New York Observer wrote about earlier in January. Via writer Steve Kornacki:

One small Obama-related detail from last night: The "Yes we can!" refrain that Barack Obama trumpeted in his concession speech was actually the campaign theme adopted by Deval Patrick, a top Obama supporter who rode the slogan to the Massachusetts governorship in 2006."

I thought he was making this stuff up...that it was coming from him...didn't you? At least he didn't record the speeches and then pantomime them.
Ubest

[Hill_YesWeWill]

179. I plagiarized Obama with my name!

I'm sorry Obama people, I was lost, but now I am found. . . crap I can't seem to help myself!

[hisownpetard]

181. What's awesome, I think, is the way the Obama camp takes every attack and almost immediately

addresses it, before it does any damage. It makes me feel confident that Obama will not let the Rethugs get away
with anything that is untrue, which is the most up-lifting feeling I've had in a while.

If Kerry had only done that...

[From The Left]

183. Hillary is Bankrupt of Ideas

It's sad to see a onetime respected Democratic U.S. Senator lapse into this sort of mindlessness.

Obviously, she needs a long rest. Maybe a year?

[rosetta627]

184. The Clinton campaign is so desperate and pathetic

And, I'll add, disgusting.

[autorank]

186. That's how Webb did it in VA against Allen. Strike, counterstrike

Of course, it won't get as intense since Clinton is no Allen but Webb just pounded Allen everytime a charge was made. In fact, McCain mouthed off and Webb's campaign went ballistic in response.

What a deal this is!

[A_Titanic_Mess]

188. Obama says borrowed lines not a big deal

Obama says borrowed lines not a big deal

...yet he must of felt it a big enough deal to "fire back" at Clinton campaign. What a douche he is...no big deal when Saint Obama does it, but not the same for satan's spawn HRC.

[TeamJordan23]

190. He never is criticizing Clinton for it. Releasing this just shows Clinton is a hypocrite. nm

[From The Left]

189. The Hillary Double Standard

It isn't OK for Obama to use references made by his friend, Gov. Duval of Mass., but it's perfectly OK for the Borg Queen to steal Barack's refences.

Hillary is so full of shit.

[Skittles]

196. "She does it too" is not a good defense

:thumbsdown:

[rosetta627]

198. "What's the next attack, then? Senator Obama stole his haircut from whoever?"

"Senator Obama's gestures are lifted from what's his name? Seriously, is this what Howard Wolfson and Mark Penn have been reduced to?"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-wolfson-plagiarism-at_b_87209.html

Giggle, snort.
Stole his haircut.

Oh Hillary, what will we do for entertainment after you drop out of the race?

[RBInMaine]

201. UNLIKE Hillary, Obama has not LIED.

Hillary LIED when she said was opposed to illegal alien drivers licenses AFTER she clearly said the plan "makes sense". Rather than just say, "I have changed my mind," she parsed and sputtered and flipped and flopped and said two or three different things in about one paragraph of language. She has a llllllllllllong history of evasive, vague, triangulatory, parsed rhetoric. Obama has said that while he and Deval Patrick are friends who have occasionally swapped lines, he should have attributed the refrain to Patrick. However, Obama was responding to cheap shot attacks made by Hillary, and he simply ad-libbed in an impressive way to frame the response which had also been used by his good friend. The guy was making a point and responding to an attack. Fine, in the moment he should have referenced Patrick, and he has said so. Patrick has confirmed that the two have traded lines before and are good friends and that he is fine with Obama having used similar language to respond to the very same kind of attack that he encountered in his gubernatorial race.
IF HILLARY IS GOING TO MAKE HAY OF THIS, THEN SHE NEEDS TO NOT WHINE WHEN OBAMA HITS BACK WITH ALL OF THE LINES SHE HAS LIFTED AND ALL OF THE MISLEADING STATEMENTS SHE HAS MADE IN THIS CAMPAIGN AND OVER THE YEARS.

[elias7]

202. Obama quoted with similar quote in 4/07

From the Boston Globe 4/16/07:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/16/patrick_obama_campaigns_share_language_of_hope/?page=1

Article entitled: Patrick, Obama campaigns share language of 'hope'

..."Not five months later, Obama, his presidential campaign gaining steam, had this to say about legendary Chicago organizer Saul Alinsky in The New Republic: "Sometimes the tendency in community organizing of the sort done by Alinsky was to downplay the power of words and of ideas when in fact ideas and words are pretty powerful. 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal.' Those are just words. 'I have a dream.' Just words."

This was linked from the BBC article today, which led:

The spat over whether Obama plagiarised the words of Deval Patrick - the black Governor of Massachusetts - is almost too ludicrous to be serious. The idea that Obama is a phoney - that he simply copied this movement from others - is so plainly barmy as to make me wonder whether the Clinton people are deluded or desperate. The charge is also - I can reveal - old.

[pauldg0]

204. I am getting sick of these two arguing back in forth...

Is there any way that we can just shut these two up.

This is what we are going to get for our nominee!!!!??? I am just pissed off at the public for including these two clowns as our potential candidate to run for the Democratic party.

What a joke.

Folks, is there any way we could get John Edwards on the ballot for our upcoming party convention? If there are any Edwards folks still out there, do not support any of these two people. They don't deserve one more ounce of any body's attention.

Can Al Gore come in and straighten them all out? It is embarrassing !! How could this possibly happen. God bring John Edwards back somehow. The New Hampshire for Al Gore endorsed John Edwards. I am sure other groups similar like John Edwards as well.

I'm just pissed off with these two Morons!!

[thoughtcrime1984]

216. Simmer down

She keeps attacking, he needs to respond or it sticks. It's politics. I would hardly call either one of them morons.

[pauldg0]

218. Neither represent the...

Democratic party.........They are for themselves. And by the way don't get too carried away with my emotions, because there are many like me!!!

Let's put it this way....

TTTTTHHHHEEEEYYY DDDDDDOOOOOONNNNTTTT BBBBBEEEEEELLLLLOOOONNNNGGGG IIINNN TTHHHEEE RRRACE!

AGAIN, I pray that Gore will bring some control to the party. I hope he chooses Edwards to help him or visversa.

[ekwhite]

207. You need a hug

:hug:

[tavalon]

208. Oh. Just. Stop!!

Both of these candidates need to go into time out! Now!! And all of you spreading this crap, to your rooms, now! And if you have a computer in your room, you will not use it during this time out. Got it, busters. I have had it!!!!!!

Jesus H. Christ on a trailer hitch!!!! Of course they're using each others words. If they're smart, they will steal liberally (pun intended) from Edwards, Kucinich and even Gravel, for fucks sake! HELLO???? Not rocket science. And not useful fodder, for either side. This is so fricken stupid, it makes the baby Jesus cry.

Just let me know when this Primary season is over and let me know who I'm voting for. I'm so tired of this stupidity.

[CorpGovActivist]

209. Excellent! n/t

[elleng]

210. Pre- '04 AND '08,

just about every potential candidate used General Clark's words, phrases and ideas. He never complained, his supporters complained occasionally.

This stuff is a sad part of the 'game' that we've not neatly accepted; that's life. Our decisions should be made on major issues, NOT trivia.

[Andreshunter77]

212. But did she use whole paragraphs? n/t

[spoiledrotten]

217. Divisive

I heard a pundit say that Obama would never take Clinton as a running mate because she was too divisive - now ain't that a rip???? He, if nominated will be the most divisive candidate EVER. And, if he won, well you think Bush is divisive, just sit back and watch.

[lukebc]

233. Obama = divisive?

The cLINTON regime is REALLY digging deep DOWN for some REALLY BAD P-A-I-D S-H-I-L-L-S.....

[spoiledrotten]

272. Ya think?

the Clintons are digging any deeper than the Obama nutcakes?

[spoiledrotten]

273. If you are referring to me - - - -

I only wish I could be a paid shill, I come up with a lot more about "smiley" if I got paid. Hopefully enough to keep him from being nominated.

[mrbluto]

221. So the defense is "She did it too?" - How confidence inspiring.

Seriously, how does showing Clinton does the same thing excuse anything Obama does?

I don't even thing it's a sin to crib some lines off a fellow democrat so long as one has an understanding with the person and credits the person at some point.

What worries me is the "She did it too!" defense.

That's exactly the sort of impoverished ethical thinking that has made Washington what it is today. The same sort of thinking that lets anti-choice people who hound doctors out of house and home tell themselves they're engaging in justified civil disobedience.

So what's to say 2-3 years from now we won't be hearing "But Bush did it too!" as a defense?

The "She did it too!" defense is not a good sign folks.

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mrbluto]

255. Um...Are you calling me a shill?

Seriously.

Your post was, to put it mildly, difficult to parse.

Also: please be careful with the caps - it's often the sign of someone unaware of net etiquette.

One thing I can pick out from your post is an apprehension of having the presidency held by either of two families for 28 years.

I share that apprehension - I think it's a bad precedent, no matter how well or ill qualified Hillary might be.

[Name removed]

275. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spoiledrotten]

274. At least she is plagiarizing politicians - not movie scripts.

If anyone wants to the hear the original - "they are not red states and blues states, they are the United States" watch MAN OF THE YEAR with Robin Williams (2006) I think he beat Obama to that line -

[meow mix]

234. kick

:patriot:

[Divine Discontent]

235. glad I'm wearing boots

I am strongly behind Barack in his epic battle for the nomination between he and Hillary, but what about all the lines his speech writers stole from John Edwards! Heck, the only reason these two are singing the tunes they even ARE today is because of the manner in which John drove the discussion and controlled the debates (when permitted to speak).

Politicians and their speech writers always swipe good lines from the opposing candidate - crap - even Willard Romney was sounding like a Democrat with his words there for a while - and my did THAT ever sound comical coming from his right-wing hatin mouth!

Yes, Barack Obama's speech writer has come up with some great slogans and inspirational lines - but with having to hock their story every day, they have to draw words from different thoughts, and so they're going to unintentionally and intentionally cite the other's words.

The race is over anyhow, but hey, 'this is personal!'

[donheld]

238. Go look at the greatest page

It's loaded with things that should clear things up for you, if you want them cleared up.

[Divine Discontent]

240. thank you, sir.

I guess I don't. ha... I just think this is such a non-story that none of us will really care about in 2 weeks (or less), and when I saw it on the greatest page I thought come on, that website being shut down is 100x the story this is.

When you're talking about bringing a fresh breeze into Washington after 8 years of president asterisk, you're going to use many of the same tag lines that have been used over and over, to the point that you'll need to borrow comments (though not whole paragraphs) from other people, like Barack did from Patrick, and though you should probably credit them, whatever, it's not that big a deal. I didn't have a cow when Obama & Hillary started saying 'this is personal to me' after John became strongly known for saying it, and I know, because they've shown themselves from the beginning to be quarrelsome, that some of the Obama supporters are downright nasty and really despise her, which is unfortunate.
Why? Because we're going to see the same nasty behavior thrown at Barack Hussein Obama (preparing myself to see it in print every day or spoken on the radio or commercials) for being a black man, for being a secret Muslim, for being an uppity n****r, blah blah blah. I just don't like when our own party behaves like Rethugs, but then again, maybe I'm not so surprised of the behavior of the troublesome few who support him, because I hear that he's attracting Bush voters.... says it all - they would be the ones being nasty - because they were the ones laughing about the purple heart band aids at the GOP Torture Seminar, errrr, I mean, GOP Convention.

[AtomicKitten]

237. ClintonCo is painfully impotent, flailing about in their own feces.

The level of ickiness they have reached in this campaign is really a surprise even to those of us who expected very little. They are literally embarrassing themselves with their petty, pointless, and baseless attacks. And when the MSM comments on it, they claim media bias. It's a genuinely pathetic and I'm beginning to suspect pathologic campaign. I hope Barack puts her out of her misery soon.

[canadian_is_cold]

241. Is it plagiarism if you have permission to use it?

Deval Patrick has long been a friend of Obama, they often steal from/inspire each other. Patrick seems to have no problem with the use of parts of his speeches by Obama, why should we? http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/19/obama_defends_his_borrowing_of_patrick_rhetoric/?page=2

Maybe this is just another example of how desperate the Clinton campaign is getting. What bugs me is how much time the media is giving this story. Hell they are giving it more time than the fact Castro resigned.

[Edith Ann]

243. Obama-Clinton

They both were pretty free with John Edwards ideas. They even used some of them verbatim. I never understood why John let them get away with it. There is a Utube somewhere that makes the comparisons.

[waiting for hope]

248. I don't think it ever was

a question of him letting them get away with it, the media did that very well.

[Jacobin]

245. I will be glad when the democratic 'neener neener neener' is over

[WillyT]

249. Kick !!!

:kick:

[Bitwit1234]

252. HURRAY!!!! THE OTHER CANDIDATE

he owns the dictionary...are we allowed to even say anything without permission...gee give it a break...some supporters are ridiculous.

[rosetta627]

253. Well, he said he wouldn't be Swift Boated

Good for him.
The ideal is the tough progressive.
(Not that I'm 100% convinced he's progressive... enough.)

[Myrina]

256. Ohferchrissakes can the two of them please grow up ???

:spank: How could anybody want to vote for either of them at this point?

Jumpin' Jebus on a pogo stick, how far this country has fallen. :cry:

[Creideiki]

257. He forgot "The" and "And"

[KalicoKitty]

263. Such a petty post!

:eyes:

:thumbsdown:


:boring:

[sandnsea]

270. kick n/t

[LoZoccolo]

277. This should be up until Hillary drops out. n/t