LGBT Voters: Clinton, Obama, or ...

[CorpGovActivist]

Poll question: LGBT Voters: Clinton, Obama, or ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_same-sex_marriage">One of these choices, especially if you have transferable job skills and foreign languages under your belt?

- Dave

[UALRBSofL]

1. I don't understand this poll

I'm not sure what your asking?

[Hieronymus]

18. I don't get it either.

[FreepFryer]

24. It's a weak and ill-conceived attempt to imply gays have no representation in the Democrats.

We do - and we need to keep working to strengthen it, not give in to bullshit, sideways manipulation - like, for example, this poll.

The Bible-thumping bigots would benefit from a mass gay exodus, not the country - nor the people.

[CorpGovActivist]

26. Mind If I Ask...

... if this even affects you personally?

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

27. You can ask, but you won't get an answer - obvious trolls get the ignore (as you have now earned).

[CorpGovActivist]

28. And There It Is...

... a polite invitation to engage, and exit, stage right.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

31. Nonsense. Making a snide and abusive comment like 'does this affect you personally' is uncalled for.

Just leave it alone and try to stick to your topic - the poll, not other readers' sexuality.

[CorpGovActivist]

34. The Poll Was Directed to LGBT Voters...

... with the expectation that those would be the ones responding.

There is a concept known as "griefing" in cyberspace. I can provide you some links.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

37. Then why did you even bother asking my sexuality? Beyond just rude, it'd be redundant...

...that is, if you weren't just casting about for new rationales for your baloney.

[CorpGovActivist]

39. You Don't Like the Poll or the Premise, or the Clarification...

... we get it.

Thank you for expressing your views.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

41. Actually, I don't like the false frame (gays out!), nor your evasive spinning (temporary only!).

[CorpGovActivist]

42. OK, I'm Done with You...

... there are people who get the intent of the poll that would like to engage, and you're griefing.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

44. Hehe - if I'm griefing, you're definitely spamming. Glad you're done, though! (n/t)

[Politicub]

2. Voted for other...

But I think Clinton is better for LGBT folks than Obama. :)

[gaiilonfong]

3. NO SHE ISN'T

She refuses to get rid of DOMA except for a few parts...NOT ACCEPTABLE

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Really?

What are the differences?

[UALRBSofL]

7. I agree with you for Hillary

And non-GLBT's can't understand it. But that's ok. Whoever it is I'll vote for in the GE.

[Politicub]

43. I love how you said that...

"Non-GLBT's can't understand it..." It's so true. I've given up on trying to explain it. And, if I try to explain the key reason why in this post, I know I'll get a flood of posts saying "they're all homophobes" or something. So why even bother.

:hug:

[LostinVA]

8. Yup, she certainly is

[bidenista]

4. where's the iran option?

[CorpGovActivist]

12. Only 10 Choices...

... but I'd suggest you give the President a heads-up that you're coming for dinner.

; )

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

6. The OP is hinting that as a gay person, you have 3 choices, one is to leave the U.S.

Yawn.

Just LET bigots try to force me out of the nation of my birth.

We're here to CHANGE the country for the better, not flee!

Bigots often find that LGBT people have a lot of courage... a lot more than anyone gives them credit for.

[CorpGovActivist]

9. Living the Expat Life for a While...

... in a culture that has successfully integrated equal rights, could actually be a tremendously productive and patriotic exercise.

No fleeing involved; information gathering, to come back and fight a more effective fight, grounded in an understanding of what has worked elsewhere.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

10. I travel and have lived abroad. That's different then leaving because a candidate drops out.

Despite the non-sequitur you offer, I'm curious - which culture do you think is it that has successfully integrated equal rights?

[CorpGovActivist]

11. Canada Has Done a Pretty Good Job in Most Provinces...

... the Netherlands (which come with the Carribean territories), and the Scandanavian countries.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

14. Good enough that gay people should emigrate? Naah. Each has issues still with gay rights.

Most of all, I find it hard to accept that your premise was that gay people should emigrate and then return at all - you sorta left that out.

[CorpGovActivist]

32. And Clarifying Subsequently Doesn't Count...

... boy, I sure hope all your candidates come out with immaculate first drafts to their positions.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

35. Now that's funny. Your orig. post was clear, and your spin now is weak. Leave it alone. (n/t)

[CorpGovActivist]

36. I'll Exercise My Voice...

... with my mind, not yours, thank you very much.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

38. Next time, try to have your whole face say the same thing the whole way thru...

might help you avoid being seen as a deceptive troll.

[CorpGovActivist]

45. I'm a Gay Man in a Committed 14-Year Partnership...

... who is tired of riding at the back of the bus, and interested in what other members of the LGBT community have to say about the possibility of a period of time abroad, in light of the disappointing field of candidates left now.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

46. If you're tired of riding at the back of the bus, time to boycott, not to move to Holland. (n/t)

[CorpGovActivist]

48. Hmmmm... Gandhi's Time outside India Comes to Mind n/t

[FreepFryer]

49. Wonder if he had marketable skills and language ability and made no mention of returning either.

[CorpGovActivist]

50. I Think History Records...

... quite clearly, that his thinking evolved, and he was given opportunities to explain his fuller meaning, though he was definitely attacked rabidly, like you're doing.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

52. Sorry - you jumped the shark comparing yourself to Gandhi. Seriously, that's just beyond silly.

[CorpGovActivist]

53. No, I'm Comparing *any* - *any* - Person Who Might Derive Benefit from Time...

... spent outside his or her home society, to gain a different perspective on what works to transform his home society.

You are quick to leap to conclusions, without civilly seeking - or accepting - clarification.

The only person's whose thoughts you understand in the moment are yours, absent questions and honest give-and-take.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

55. I 'leap' to the conclusions you made in YOUR OP - No mention of returning, nor improving America...

...just expatriating. Come on, you can't revise history this much and expect others to take you seriously.

If your OP was ill-stated as you claim, re-do it.

[CorpGovActivist]

57. The Sturm und Drang of Your Rabid Attacks...

... have probably made it abundantly clear - as have the sub-thread titles - that the intent was not a permanent exodus.

Where two plausible meanings can be inferred (in this case, a "temporary," or "permanent" sojourn abroad), you might start by asking: "Um, do you mean to suggest that gays leave permanently, or temporarily?"

The edit window has passed.

Please consider this to be confirmation that I did not mean a permanent exodus.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

60. No, you don't make your OP by attacking those who question you as 'rabid', or questioning their sex,

or comparing yourself to Gandhi, or suggesting how I might have objected to your self-admittedly flawed post.

Just live and learn and next time you will better avoid seeming so disingenuous by revisionist arguments about your intent.

[CorpGovActivist]

62. Thank You...

... you have taught me many valuable lessons.

I can almost snatch the pea from your palm now.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

64. Almost. Next time, we'll see whether your intent is well communicated - or just crudely appended. nt

[CorpGovActivist]

69. ...

[CorpGovActivist]

59. What Reason Did You Live abroad? Personal Choice?

If so, then what business is it of yours if some LGBT community members say, "Eh, you know what, I wanna see how other places integrate this, so that I can be exposed to some new ideas, and re-imports some of the best ones back"?

[FreepFryer]

63. I don't object to that -but that's not what your OP said. My objection clarified your thinking,

If not your actual poll.

[CorpGovActivist]

67. ...

[SPKrazy]

13. what an asinine poll

it implies to me

love it or leave it kind of mentality

good one

not
:eyes:

[FreepFryer]

15. Exactly. Poor fare for progressives, indeed. (n/t)

[CorpGovActivist]

16. For the LGBT Community, All Remaining Candidates Are, Indeed, Very Poor Fare n/t

[FreepFryer]

17. Right - so gay Americans should leave the country. Double-Plus-Good, Comrade!

[CorpGovActivist]

20. History Has Some Fine Examples...

... of productively-spent time outside the society, with a triumphant return to transform it.

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

22. Unfortunately your OP mentions nothing about returning. Lame Original Post + Weak Spin = Lame Post.

[CorpGovActivist]

29. Rather Than Rabid Response...

... why not a sane and civil request for clarification?

Froth at the mouth much?

- Dave

[FreepFryer]

33. Because you weren't 'clarfiying', you're spinning - saving face - obvious and very lame. (n/t)

[radfringe]

19. while I don't see obama or hillary being LGBT friendly

they will be a hellava lot more friendly than the repubs

[FreepFryer]

21. Wow - you mean gay people don't have to be scared into fleeing the country?!?

Whew - that's a relief.

[radfringe]

25. only if McCain, romeny or huckabee

gets in..

then they will do a reversal of the roman Colosseum spectacles and throw the lions to the christians...

[FreepFryer]

30. They can try but they'll never win. You can't outlaw basic human biology as they'll learn someday.

[radfringe]

47. unfortunately

they are slooooooooooooooooow learners and alot of people will get hurt in the meantime

[readmoreoften]

23. LGBT people are generally less wealthy than straights. Most of us can't afford to leave.

I don't want to leave others behind.

On the other hand, if the choices are Obama/McCain I think the LGBT community should protest the election altogether. Some will argue that Obama's platform is LGBT supportive, but I don't believe he has any intention other than throwing us under the bus.

We'll see. If Obama wins and is the shitty, right-leaning president I expect him to be, I think many in the LGBT community will abandon the party for good in 2012 (those who haven't already.)

If Clinton wins, I think she might actually do something to contradict her husband's legacy, but it's pure speculation with no empirical evidence whatsoever on my part. She could triangulate against us (although I think it benefits her less than Obama since Republicans already think she's a wiccan communist...)

[Politicub]

40. I'm not leaving, either

And I think we will be basically left out of an Obama administration. We won't have a big target on our backs, such as we would with a Republican in office. But, we won't have a seat at the table with Obama, either.

[hulklogan]

51. We'll have to eat in the kitchen at the Obama White House Thanksgiving. n/t

[Politicub]

70. Oh, Barack, your crumbs are so delicious! n/t

:puke:

[CorpGovActivist]

72. As Opposed to the Feast...

... we have to look forward to with the other choice?

blech

- Dave

[grantcart]

54. not LGBT but support you

In Thailand you will find a completely tolerant population. They have already had 1 admitted gay prime minister and 1 in the closet.

[CorpGovActivist]

56. Thanks!

I hope the genesis of the question was clear. I'm curious to see what others think about the benefit of some time spent abroad as an expat, in one of the many societies that are further along than we are on LGBT issues, vis-a-vis society at large.

- Dave

[grantcart]

58. I left during Regan and didnt come back for 20 years

I understand that you will not agree with this but I think that Obama is not the Homophobe, or as friendly to homophobes that people think he is. I wish he took a stronger stand now but I think he sees that there is little upside now and alot more as President.
But I understand your caution. By the way I didn't see John as being that much ahead of Obama - Elizabeth yes.

[CorpGovActivist]

61. Elizabeth and Cate...

... were lovely on this.

Twenty years, eh?

:rofl:

Must've been quite the culture shock when you got back, even if you were making frequent visits.

- Dave

[grantcart]

68. you have no idea

when i left the word "mother" was not hyphenated.

Liddy was universely reviled as being against the constitution. When I got back he got a "first ammendment award" for among other things telling people that if they wanted to kill a federal officer they should shoot him in the larynx.

Police had come to regularly park a police car near the synagogue on Saturdays.

I could go on but it is like a foriegn country to me.

I still can't get over the hostility in here.


If I hadn't lived in Thailand I would have probably been right of Obama on LGBT issues.

[CorpGovActivist]

71. One of My Favorite Books...

... is a World War II edition of Anna and the King of Siam. I'd love to see the pictures you have of the temples.

- Dave

[goodgd_yall]

65. Clinton

And, if I've stuck through staying here with 8 years of Bush, I guess I'm here 'til I die. (Unless I find myself in retirement unable to live in the U.S.---then it might be Mexico for me!)

[CorpGovActivist]

66. Why Clinton...

... over Obama, with regard to LGBT issues?

- Dave

[ecstatic]

73. Edwards on gay marriage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV-OQtCvhUo&feature=related

[DrFunkenstein]

74. Yes! Gay People Give Up and Go Away!

You have Obama committed to fighting for civil unions (the first step, folks), anti-discrimination, and repealing the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policies. But nevermind that, get on that magical ship to gay-topia where Donnie McClurkin exists as a mythic Devil-God.

Reminds me of the Back-to-Africa movement that people wanted instead of fighting to abolish slavery in antebellum times. Pretty sad.