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Let us be clear: There was no Democratic Primary in Florida tonight.

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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:55 AM
Original message
Let us be clear: There was no Democratic Primary in Florida tonight.
To be a Primary there must be an election; to be an election, there must be campaigning (unless it's an "election" in North Korea). No campaigning=no election=no primary.

There was no Democratic Primary in Florida tonight, by any stretch of the imaginatiion.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. But there was campaigning
Obama was doing it.
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Duke Newcombe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. So Hillary attending those fundraisers IN FLORIDA, and gladhanding...
...was, what...a cardboard cutout of her flown in by the Obama camp? :|

Duke



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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Obama attended several fundraisers in Florida. And gave a press conference in Hyde Park
in violation of the agreement.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. = that she is a lying ass.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. You're pretty toxic for someone so new
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 01:04 AM by Harvey Korman
Just what we need.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. yes
But obviously way cool -- Che avatar proves it!
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Speaking the truth. If you dont like it, cover thine eyes.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. No, hurling insults
and looking like a child.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
40. Over 500 posts in a couple of days WTF?
You'd have to have NO life and a HUGE agenda to do that. Ignore for that poster. Waste of my time.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Obama also had fundraisers in Florida
:shrug:
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. not in the days directly preceding the Primary
don't play dumb. I know how you Hillarites like to do that.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. Play dumb? Like pretend that national ad buys that reach Florida don't count?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. at least
we only "play" dumb.

:rofl:
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. but in playing dumb you become it
you blindly trust in Hillary regardless of what she does right in front of you
when she lies, you applaud it and say, "everybody does it"
when she cheats, you say, "she's not cheating, we just need to adjust the rules"

you aren't playing dumb anymore
you just can't admit you have invested so much time and energy into a bad prospect

Hillarites are like bad gamblers, they always think the next hand will be when Hillary redeems herself
yet she never does
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I don't blindly trust anyone
But then --I'm supporting a "public servant" and not a "leader"
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. is she truly serving in the Public interest? be honest now.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Yes
well --that was easy.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Florida Democratic Party disagrees with you.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 12:57 AM by Harvey Korman
They run the primary, not the DNC.

http://www.fladems.com/

Campaigning has nothing to do with the definition of "election," particularly in a mass media-saturated society.
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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. Florida is about as close as we come to North Korea in our voting..
so we did have a primary.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Those 1.6 million people
...are not smiling at you.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. Got it and ALL FIRED-UP--FOR THE LADY WHO WON FLORIDA.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. i wouldn't say that's true that campaigning makes it a primary
I don't see anyone campaigning in Montana, but they're still going to have a primary on Tuesday, same for Alaska.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. There was no campaigning allowed, therefore no Democratic election
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM by calteacherguy
therefore no primary. In America, we allow campaigning in our elections.

Nothing that happened in Florida tonight was in the America spirit of true democracy.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Democracy = people vote
People voted.

This is starting to look sad.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. In American democracy, candidates are allowed to campaign.
The Democratic "primary" in Florida was UnAmerican.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. LOL.
See you on Feb. 5th, my friend.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. There's a campaign office in AK
I'm sure there's some kind of campaigning going on in MT too. There was NOTHING in Florida, it's ridiculous for anyone to claim a victory. She is a laughing stock, the media can barely hold back the snickers.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. no, i agree that it's ridiculous to claim a victory
I'm just saying that the absence of candidates in a state does not, by itself, mean that a state isn't holding a primary.

The fact that there are no delegates at stake makes the whole exersize moot, but there still was a primary, just not an official one.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'll bet there would have been one had Obama won though!
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yup, then we'd be hearing about the "will of the people" and Obama's landslide
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. "The TRUTH"
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. 1.6 million voters in Florida didn't "know" this
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
19. we all know that...but it tis sweet when you win over your
opponent by 250,000 votes....DAMN!

In a race where the Democratic votes don't count and there are no delegates at stake HRC got the most votes of any candidate running in either party. McCain came in second, Romney came in third, and Obama came on forth. Edwards, who came in seventh, was beaten by both Guliani and Mike Huckabee.

Although the pundits and those obama supporters in in th DU will write off the Clinton win in Florida as a beauty contest, I can'help but to think that when a candidate who didn't campaign in the state at all comes in first ahead of all the Republicans, who have been campaigning hard there, that is to significant to ignore. And it'an even bigger victory because the Democrats who voted for Hillary knew their vote didn'even count.

So if the Democrats don't blow it by electing Obama I think this is an indication that Hillary would win by a landslide in the general election.

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AJH032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
25. so because there was no campaigning, people's votes are fake?
If anything, one might argue, they're actually more real (that is, more relevant) in the sense that people got to decide on the best candidate without the media/ads telling them how to do so.

Perhaps there was no election of delegates, but there was still an election, at the very least, symbolically.
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DianeG5385 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
27. The people voted Hillary won, Obama lost. delegates are political
Spin it if you must, this is the truth. Florida is a microcosm of super Tuesday. That's why you hear so much trash talk from the Obama side. Hillary proved her bona fides tonight, and on super Wednesday, she will have the delegate lead. Simple as that.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:26 AM
Original message
But, but, but, she will declare that she won later, just like when she said she won in Michigan.
Where there was no primary.

Why does Hillary lie like that?
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
33. But, but, but, maybe lying like that is just a Clinton habit.
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 01:28 AM by Major Hogwash
Or is it a character flaw?

Does character count when running for office?
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LVjinx Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
34. Talking points
Is this the new Obama talking point? Florida doesn't matter? Cuz Obama's communications director just said the same thing, mocking Hillary as getting the same number of votes as Gravel...

Because, if that IS the plan, can you conceive of any possible way that it could, oh, I don't know, backfire?
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. florida matters
just not in the race to win the Democratic nomination for President.

To be the nominee you need 2025 delegates.

Florida has 0 delegates.

Therefore after winning Florida, Mrs Clinton is 0 delegates closer to her goal of 2025 delegates.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Talking point--the voters of FL sent a clear message--they will be seated.
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Tom Strong Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
35. This post spits in the faces of everybody who voted tonight.
I'd tell you Obamites to quit cutting your dicks off to spite your balls, but...more power to ya, fellas!
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. Congratulations to Hillary and her supporters for
winning the Democratic Primary tonight.

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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Thank you for that post n/t
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
42. 1.5 million Democrats disagree with you. NT
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
43. Meaningless From Now On: Gallop, Zogby,Rasmussen, ARG, Quinnipiac, Pew, Marist...
In fact all opinion polls mean nothing and are unworthy of our consideration. NONE of them, not a single god damned one of them, award a single campaign delegate, so what good are they?

If a new poll comes out with a 500 likely voter sample from Connecticut showing Obama closing the gap with Clinton there, why bother mentioning it? Unless actual delegates are awarded based on that poll, there is nothing of any value to be learned from it.

Same thing with the Florida Primary. 1.6 Million Democrats who have nothing better to do than vote in an election that will not award convention delegates. Pathetic. Why encourage that nonsense by giving it attention? Florida voters are ALWAYS demanding that we pay attention to their meaningless votes. Look at the crap they pulled in 2000. They made the whole F'ing nation sit and watch them count "hanging chads" for weeks and NONE of it mattered! Did the actual winner get a single electoral vote out of it? No! Nada! Nothing!

Haven't we learned anything? Stop paying attention when millions of Floridians vote. We all know that Florida elections don't mean anything.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4284290&mesg_id=4284290

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. Yes, there was a primary, just no delegates were awarded...
...why do you think your mental Webster's dictionary should be the end all of what is and what isn't?
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
45. For God's sake, you lost. Get over it.
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