Hillary keeps trying to change the rules.

[mckeown1128]

First in NV: She was fine with at large caucuses when it looked like she would get the endorsement of the culinary union. When she didn't she became concerned about the voters getting the special privilege of being able to actually vote. Her teachers union waited till the week of the election to try to change the rules.

Second in MI: She is fine with MI having no delegates until she wins it. She was the only top tier candidate on the ballot and many voters knowing that and that they were going to get no delegates didn't even bother to show up. So she wants delegates given out based on the symbolic MI primary election. Obama nor Edwards were on the ballot and the voters were well aware that NO delegates were going to be seated.

Third in FL: She was fine with the FL delegates not counting because she was running 15 points up in all of the 4 early states. She loses two and now she wants the election in FL to count. She has "decided" that FL should count. With NO time for Obama or Edwards to start a serious campaign to combat her name recognition in FL.

I don't think the voters in FL and MI should have any delegates unless they hold a fair election one were the voters will know ahead of time about the delegates counting, within the DNC rules, and with ALL of the candidates getting fair a fair chance to campaign.

We should be worried about the Clintons fighting the Democratic Party rules to benefit themselves.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. oh dear!

A politician playing politics!

Where are my smelling salts?

[Medusa]

2. No, just the clintons playing dirty

once again.

[mckeown1128]

3. Playing politics with results is my problem.

It isn't fair for her to assume that MI delegates are for her when the election wasn't open or honest.

[MonkeyFunk]

5. what was dishonest about it?

[mckeown1128]

8. Plenty:

1.(this is the main one) the voters were told BEFORE the election that they were not voting for delegates.

2. The candidates were told that the vote was not for delegates so they didn't advertise. This leads to the voters not having fair access to the two less known candidates. No campaign staff or organizing staff were their.

No one knows what the results would have been had the candidates and the voters been told that the delegates would be counted.

Clinton has no legitamacy in trying to claim the MI delegates.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. I don't see the dishonesty

who lied to whom?

[mckeown1128]

13. Are you trying to say that the MI voters were under the impression

that they were actually voting for delegates?

[MonkeyFunk]

15. Not at all

but I'm asking what's dishonest. Who lied to whom?

[mckeown1128]

18. They are only lied to IF the delegates get counted for the

nomination.

[Hugabear]

23. Do you think that Hillary should get to keep Michigan's delegates?

Doesn't matter that she was the only major candidate on the ballot?

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Personally?

I think the Michigan delegates should be seated, but uncommitted.

However, it wouldn't be unfair to seat them as pledged - the other candidates CHOSE to take their names off the ballot. There was no requirement or pledge for them to do so.

But since the Florida vote hasn't occurred yet, and all the candidates are on the ballot, they should be seated as pledged.

[mckeown1128]

32. Democracy isn't just names on a ballot.

None of the candidates have had a chance to put their ideas out. There has been no campaign offices opened up for people to get information about the candidates. No advertising directed at FL voters. At this point it is basically a contest based on name recognition...which only benifits one candidate. The one candidate that everyone already knows. The one candidate that wants it to count all of a sudden. The one candidate who wants to change the rules now that it is to late for the other candidates to get their messages out.

[MethuenProgressive]

4. Link? Or is that all just the opinion of an Obama supporter?

:rofl:

[mckeown1128]

6. Opinion. nt

[L0oniX]

7. Relax. It's the aliens that prompt her to do these things.

<snip> the UFO faction is backing Hillary Clinton's presidential run, according to revealing new evidence and the Clinton election machine would prefer not to talk about it!

I expect a Dennis Kucinich endorsement shortly.

[YDogg]

9. "I don't think the voters in FL and MI should have any delegates"

:wtf:

As a Florida voter, I wish my vote counted. To hell with the attitude that FL should not have delegates, regardless of the circumstances, whether that sentiment is coming from you because you don't like Clinton(s), or from the fucked up DNC. Fuck the DNC to hell.

[mckeown1128]

14. If you want delegates hold an election within the rules and with

all of the candidates ates getting time to campaign there. Sound like your problem is with the FL Democratic party.

[MaineDem]

19. Blame the Florida Party not the DNC

They knew the Rules...in fact, voted for the rules... and they knew the consequences. The DNC applied the rule fairly.

[bluedog]

20. but they sure as HELL want us to

vote in the GE...........and our 4.3 million Democratic votes will Hold Power to the outcome........

[YDogg]

10. dupe

self-delete of dupe post.

[UALRBSofL]

11. Barack Breaks DNC Rules Campaigning In Florida

What's interesting about it, his ads run every day in florida on CNN. Though he is breaking DNC rules I believe it shows what type of character he has breaking and circunventing DNC.

[mckeown1128]

17. Well those are national ads.

1. He can't buy nationally without FL being included.

2. The DNC has not made any mention to Obama running national ads.

3. He isn't running them with any intent to win the FL vote...he is taking the DNC's stance on FL.

[UALRBSofL]

25. National Ads That can Block Any State

If people such as yourself are not aware, National Ads are set up to block any state they choose. It appears you aren't aware of how national networks can block specific states. That said, rule breaking is rule breaking.

[mckeown1128]

30. Uhh no. He is running ads on MSNBC and CNN...

and was told that they couldn't block certain states. you see it is cable. What does it matter anyway Obama doesn't want the FL delegates, because he has respect for the Democratic Party's ruling.

[MonkeyFunk]

26. Then why is Obama the only candidate

with ads running there?

I've seen plenty of national Clinton ads - none of them are running in Florida.

[mckeown1128]

31. If I may ask what channel is she running ads on? nt

[AX10]

35. Interesting how Obama and company want...

to twist the rules when it comes to themselves.

[mckeown1128]

36. Once again it is N A T I O N A L advertisting not FL. nt

[mckeown1128]

37. Once again it is N A T I O N A L advertisting not FL. nt

[CoffeeCat]

16. Just give it a little more time to gel...

Look at where we were a few weeks ago.

The Clintons were getting away with their smarmy tactics. They
aren't any longer.

Members of their own party have to call up the Clintons and tell them
to stop lying about and eviscerating a fellow Dem. These people
are totally out of control.

However, their crap has been called out. They're going to have to
run a clean campaign. We all saw how well Hillary does when she
runs on the issues--just look at Iowa. She knows she can't win
without manipulations and lies.

Give it another few days. I promise you--that people will continue to
pull away from Hillary and find Obama and Edwards to be the superior
candidates. This week's polls will show Hillary trending down and
Edwards and Obama trending upward.

Look for Edwards to become more competitive and for Hillary to start
attacking him--because she's going to lose women and older voters to
Edwards.

Are you ready for it, Edwards supporters?

[mckeown1128]

21. She already has started attacking him in SC robocalls.

I was hopeing he would pull of a second place upset. Even though I am an Obama supporter, I really really really like Edwards and would love for it to come down to a two person race with Obama and Edwards.

[CoffeeCat]

33. I agree...another Obama supporter who adores Edwards...

I believe Obama and Edwards as the frontrunners, would run a very competitive, tough campaign. They
would debate the issues, instead of trying to trip each other up with semantics and manipulations.

Edwards is a decent man.

If Obama and Edwards fought for first place, we could all rest easy--knowing that the winner won
on ideas and policies--and not games and dirty tricks. This race would be so much more fruitful
and educational if the fights were about real issues, instead of 'who-can-twist-one-sentence-into-
the-biggest-lie' games.

[rayofreason]

22. No surprise. n/t

[swoop]

27. Good post.

And, yes, that's EXACTLY what DOES concern me.

edit to add; You're my first recommend!

[mckeown1128]

34. Welcome to DU.

[guruoo]

28. You're just sore because your candidate didn't think of it first

BTW: I support the Democratic Party, and it's eventual nominee.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4224898&mesg_id=4230157

[Pathwalker]

29. No one will ever be able to convince me that Democrats care

about counting the votes, or that every vote counts again. I now now better - there's not a dime's worth of difference between the parties on this issue. The Democrats are stone hypocrites for disenfranchising the voters of two states - I hope you are all looking forward to a Republican victory this November, because that will be the result. If lifetime Democrats like me are this pissed - you all need to get a clue. Democrats caring about the voters - it's a sick, nasty joke.

[knitter4democracy]

38. She can kiss my Michigan ass.

She didn't fight for us. She got her followers in our state party to go along with the MIGOP plan to move up the primary. I'm pretty sure of it. Granholm endorsed her ages ago, long before any of the primaries even got going. She hasn't come here, she has done nothing for us, she helped get us into this mess, and now she wants our votes? She can kiss my ass.