All 3 Candidates Say They Support Civil Unions For Same Sex Couples. But Only One...

[mondo joe]

has said she does not oppose same sex marriage, and maintains it is a state issue.

Obama and Edwards say they are opposed to a constitutional amendment prohibiting same sex marriage, but they oppose same sex marriage.

If they oppose same sex marriage, but also oppose an amendment prohibiting it, will they ACT to oppose same sex marriage at the state level, and if so how?

Any thoughts?

[rpannier]

1. Valid question

It will be interesting to see what others think.

My guess is they would probably take the same position as hers.

[maddiejoan]

5. The other two

say they will try to completely do away with DOMA.

The problem is --that's not the way in. The push for a Constitutional Amendment to ban same-sex marriage will reach a new high and there will be a huge gay backlash.
Hillary's way grants full rights FEDERALLY, while keeping the Ban Amendment off the table.

Hillary wants to get us there the smart way --AND the other two have already stated they have "religious reasons" for opposing same-sex marriage...so why should I believe they will actually do it.

[jenmito]

23. Here are the facts:

January 02, 2008
Obama is best for gay rights

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2008/01/obama-is-best-o.html

[maddiejoan]

25. Citizen Crain?

:rofl:


No thanks.

This guy was a rabid attack dog for removing trans-rights from ENDA.

[jenmito]

27. Ignore the facts if you want.

:shrug:

[maddiejoan]

They aren't facts

They are opinions.

[jenmito]

34. Even if you believe that,

you can't say Hillary is any better than Obama on gay rights.

[mondo joe]

36. Actually, yes.

Obama has already double faced the GLBT community a couple of times in just the last few months.

Not trustworthy.

[jenmito]

37. He's very trustworthy.

Just because he doesn't lie to get elected doesn't mean he's not trustworthy.

[mondo joe]

39. Are you GLBT?

[maddiejoan]

42. Watch me.

Hillary is better on LGBT rights than Obama.

Because when I READ what they say on LGBT rights, I realize Hillary understands the issues better.

She's not just following a policy line --she actually comprehends the issues at hand.

Sorry. I don't get that from Obama., and I am uncomfortable with his associations with Rev Caldwell and his "religious" belief that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

Hillary has no problem with states legalizing gay "MARRIAGE", and supports their rights to do so.
Hillary is the only candidate that does not have a "personal" objection to gay marriage

Obama has consistently stated that his objection to gay marriage is hinged on his personal and religous beliefs.

[mondo joe]

30. Opinion pieces are not facts. NT

[maddiejoan]

2. This is one of my biggest reasons

for supporting Hillary.

Not only does she get 'it' --she understands how to get there.

[soleft]

3. I thought she's on record as saying

marriage between man and a woman. Didnt she say that in the Logo debate?

[mondo joe]

4. She doesn't oppose the states deciding.

My understanding was that she thinks civil unions are more expedient.

[waiting for hope]

8. Neither does Edwards -

He has said countless times that this issue is a state's issue and that because he believes so strongly in the Separation of Church and State, it would not be the job of his administration to push any thought of a marriage law.

[mondo joe]

10. My apologies for misunderstanding. Thank you.

[ruggerson]

6. I think they all share similar positions

on the level of who "gets it," they are miles apart.

I'd rank em:

1) Clinton
2) Edwards
3) Obama

Edwards does really seem to be trying to understand, he's struggling with his Baptist upbringing. I don't think our issues will be front burner with him, but I trust him, I think his heart is in the right place.

Obama belongs to a very liberal protestant sect, UCC, however his congregation is not so progressive. UCC congregations can elect to be "open and affirming" (supportive of equal marriage rights and full participation in the church). Obama's congregation has chosen NOT to be "open and affirming."

[littlebit]

7. I was

at the Hillary rally in Rock Hill SC today. A member of the audience asked her thoughts on gay rights. I made the comment to my partner that Hillary was going to side step to question. She didn't. She told everyone that we deserved the same rights as everyone else. I was really happy with her response. I was even happier when my partner and I had our picture taken with her.

[ruggerson]

9. Is your last name Rezko?

just kidding.

[littlebit]

14. LOL

You are the third person who has asked me that today lol.

[jenmito]

11. Obama said he would leave it up to the states to decide. n/t

[mondo joe]

13. Thank you. NT

[jenmito]

19. No problem. As a matter of fact, Hillary is the only one who WON'T go that far, and Obama goes

farthest:


"January 02, 2008
Obama is best for gay rights

But only Obama and Edwards support full repeal of DOMA, including the provision that says each state can choose to ignore gay marriages from other states.

Hillary Clinton won’t go that far and has stopped short of criticizing her husband for signing DOMA and “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” into law. She and Obama have also declined to sponsor the Uniting American Families Act, which would extend to gay Americans the right to sponsor a non-American partner for citizenship. Then again, Edwards didn’t sign on to UAFA’s predecessor legislation during his Senate tenure, and all three say they support the idea of equal immigration rights in principle."

http://citizenchris.typepad.com/citizenchris/2008/01/obama-is-best-o.html

[mondo joe]

22. Untrue.

You say "Hillary is the only one who WON'T go that far" which is BS. Hillary does not oppose states granting same sex marriage rights.

[jenmito]

24. Did you read the article?

[mondo joe]

28. Yes. And I disagree with the conclusions.

If the worse you've got is that she doesn't want to criticize her husband, but will overturn part or all of DOMA, I don't give a shit.

Are you GLBT?

[jenmito]

31. Why is it ok that she doesn't want to criticize her husband, who will be co-president?

No, I'm not. But that doesn't mean I don't care about those who are.

[mondo joe]

35. A. There is and will be no co-president; and B. Criticizing her husband doesn't

advance the cause at all, so I don't care about it.

[jenmito]

38. Of course there will be. You're fooling yourself if you think Hillary will be running things

without Bill's input.

[mondo joe]

40. You're fooling yourself if you think your trash talk will convince anyone.

[sandnsea]

12. Empire Pride says she opposes it

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/02/gay_group_slams.html

[mondo joe]

16. Look again.

"I believe in full equality of benefits, nothing left out," she said. "From my perspective there is a greater likelihood of us getting to that point in civil unions or domestic partnerships and that is my very considered assessment."

"My position is consistent," she said. "I support states making the decision. I think that Chuck Schumer would say the same thing. And if anyone ever tried to use our words in any way, we'll review that. Because I think that it should be in the political process and people make a decision and if our governor and our Legislature support marriage in New York, I'm not going to be against that... So I feel very comfortable with being able to refute anybody who tries to pit us or pit me against Eliot."

http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17379741

[jenmito]

20. That article's from '06. Mine is from Jan. '08 and she has the WEAKEST position on the issue.

Link above.

[mondo joe]

26. Not in my opinion.

She supports state's rights to grant same sex marriage and supports full equality.

[jenmito]

29. Do you have a recent article stating that? And if she does, that makes her only equal to

Obama...not better.

[mondo joe]

32. I'd still say better.

Definitely better.

[sandnsea]

45. They all support that

She no more supporters gay marriage personally than any of the others. They all support letting states choose the method of providing full and equal rights.

[babylonsister]

50. The truth is elusive around here imo.Stupid. And thanks. nt

[burythehatchet]

15. I don't see any

[Time for change]

17. Edwards will not do that

He says that states should be allowed to legalize same sex marriage if they want to:
http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=17644

As far as his "opposing" same sex marriage, I have heard him mention that. He makes it clear that that is a personal statement -- I doubt that he has ever even hinted that he would take an official action in that regard.

[mondo joe]

18. Thank you. Glad to hear it.

[cboy4]

21. My thought is John Edwards' wife Elizabeth has

really embraced the gay community, and has come out in full support of equal marriage.

His daughter also supports equal marriage.

I think he can eventually be convinced, and I trust Elizabeth will stay on him.

I also trust that he's truly torn, but not in a vindictive way.

I'm not sure what to think about Hillary, other than she's way better than the alternative, which would be Obama.

There's absolutely no way Rev. Obama will ever budge.

That's where I currently stand.

[zalinda]

43. Edwards also supports FULL and equal rights

under the law for same sex couples, just like "married" couples now enjoy. I think his only problem is with the word marriage itself, that is probably his Baptist upbringing.

http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/lgbt/

"LGBT Americans are entitled to equal respect and dignity under our laws. Discrimination is morally wrong. All Americans should have the same freedoms and the same responsibilities." -- John Edwards

zalinda

[cboy4]

44. I'm sure it does have to do with his Baptist upbringing.

Hopefully, he can be convinced that the Baptist church (or any other for that matter), is not going to be asked or required to sanction same-sex marriage.

LGBT people will happily go to city halls.

We're just asking for the paperwork and the equal rights.

It will not affect a single straight person.

[FreeState]

46. FULL and equal rights = marriage, not separate but unequal civil unions

and none of the candidates support it.

[zalinda]

47. Tell me the difference between

a marriage and a civil union. Because for the life of me, I don't know what you are talking about. Marriage is done in a church, civil union in the government office. You have the same rights whether you are "married" by a pastor or a justice of the peace. That is what Edwards is saying.

Many people have the problem with the word marriage, but not with the rights. It's a church thing.

zalinda

[cboy4]

48. Hopefully this helps you Zalinda

Federal Benefits:
According to a 1997 GAO report, civil marriage brings with it at least 1,049 legal protections and responsibilities from the federal government, including the right to take leave from work to care for a family member, the right to sponsor a spouse for immigration purposes, and Social Security survivor benefits that can make a difference between old age in poverty and old age in security. Civil unions bring none of these critical legal protections.

GAO Report excerpt and link:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf

We have identified 120 statutory provisions involving marital status that were enacted
between September 21, 1996, and December 31, 2003. During the same period, 31 statutory
provisions involving marital status were repealed or amended in such a way as to eliminate
marital status as a factor. Consequently, as of December 31, 2003, our research identified a
total of 1,138 federal statutory provisions classified to the United States Code in which
marital status is a factor in determining or receiving benefits, rights, and privileges.

Side by side comparison: Marriage v. Civil Unions
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Fm4phQMc8h4J:www.glad.org/rights/Marriage_v_CU_chart.pdf+difference+between+marriage+and+civil+union&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

But really, the bottom line is it all comes down to equality.

Forget the benefits...why shouldn't gay people be allowed to marry the person they love?

LGBT people are not asking that religious institutions sanction gay marriage.

Most gay people, I'm positive, are more than happy to go to city halls and court houses.

So the bottom line is this issue doesn't affect or harm or threaten heterosexual marriage.

[zalinda]

52. This is from the Edwards web site

Equal Rights for Same-Sex Couples

Edwards believes that all couples in committed, long-term relationships should have the same rights, benefits, and responsibilities, whether they are straight couples or same-sex couples. He supports civil unions to guarantee gay and lesbian couples the same rights as straight couples, including inheritance rights, hospital visitation rights, equal pension and health care benefits, and all of the 1,100 other legal protections government affords married couples. Edwards supports the full repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act. He also believes same-sex families should be treated in the same manner as other families by our immigration laws. Edwards believes the right president could lead the country toward consensus around equal rights and benefits for all couples in committed, long-term relationships and he opposes divisive Constitutional amendments to ban same-sex marriages.


I think he is trying to get the word marriage out of it, so that everyone will accept it. That is the main sticking point for many people. Soon it will be no big deal and you will find that they will be calling it marriage too. I know baby steps suck, but Edwards will give full rights to same sex couples and they will be able to adopt and both will have legal ties to the child/children.

He also has a very intense plan to help eradicate AIDS/HIV. I think he cares.

zalinda

[cboy4]

54. Yes, I know what John says and he's my candidate at this

point, so I don't disagree that deep down inside he cares.

Otherwise, I couldn't in good conscious support him.

But you seemed to not understand what the big difference is between marriage and civil unions, and I hope the information I provided helped you understand better that there is a huge difference.

[zalinda]

55. Yes, with other candidates maybe

but, I don't think it would be the same with Edwards. I know that NOW there is a difference, but that he wants to change it.

And, I think it's stupid that people have had to put up with it. But, please remember, it wasn't so long ago that inter-racial couples were having the same problems, and sometimes killed. Now no one looks twice at that same couple. Well, at least here in the north, I don't know about the south. This is one of the reasons I am so supportive of Edwards, he can give the country a really hard push to the left, and maybe same-sex couples will be "not noticed" in a few years too.

zalinda

[cboy4]

57. We can only hope.

:)

[babylonsister]

51. cboy4, love ya, but you are FULL OF IT!

You are missing the forest for the trees, and where did 'Rev.' Obama come from? Your disdain is overtaking you.
I'm saying this because I really like Obama and think he has everyone's best interests at heart. I'm sad you don't recognize that. And I know all about Danny.

Good luck with your wisdom on this election. :shrug:

And now I shall duck and cover yet again.

:hide:

[cboy4]

56. LOL, you don't have to duck and cover.

My point in referring to him as Rev. Obama is I believe his religious faith guides him in a way that makes me uncomfortable.

I believe it's what has prompted him to say that equal marriage should basically be left up to religion, and in his book, he said, ".... I may have been infected with society's prejudices and predilections and attributed them to God."

And yes, McClurkin. That worries me.

And the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, spiritual adviser to President Bush, and the pray the gay away philosophy in Houston.


“People are confused,” said Wayne Besen, a gay activist and founder of Truth Wins Out, a New York organization aimed at countering the “ex-gay” movement. “We see one report of him saying powerful words. Then he is hanging out with some shady characters. People don’t know what to make of that.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/23/politics/politico/main3743835.shtml


I don't question my wisdom as much as I question Obama's trustworthiness.

If I was alone feeling this way, I might wonder if I'm reading the situation incorrectly. However, as you know, I'm far from alone.

[nancyharris]

33. Although you will not find it anywhere on their websites

Rudy Giuliani and John McCain support civil unions (except when they are speaking in front of a group of evangelicals). Giuliani did not support DOMA, McCain did. Neither support a Constitutional ban on gay marriages. Neither support gay marriage.

There was a time that Mitt Romney was somewhere to the left of Ted Kennedy on gay rights issues. Since running for president he has sold his soul to the devil.

[jlake]

41. I think Hillary personally has no problem with same sex marriage.

She is not outright supporting it because it is such a divisive issue. ...But I have a feeling she will govern quite a bit to the left of where she is running .... Can't say that we will have marriage equality, but GLBT rights will take leaps and bounds forward under Hillary.

[babylonsister]

49. Lots of thoughts in this thread I hope you and everyone take to heart. nt

[mdmc]

53. HRC has the best position

But I am sure that the greens will run a true gay rights advocate during the general.

People will have the choice between a Dem that supports limited rights, a GOP that opposes gay rights, and a Green that fully supports gay rights.

[zalinda]

58. No, Edwards has also said he will leave it to the states n/t

[okasha]

59. Marriage law is one of those matters

"reserved to the states" under the Constitution. There is currently no basis in Constitutional law for federal regulation of marriage--i. e., who can marry, age of consent, grounds for divorce, etc.. Without a Constitutional Amendment, no President is going to be able to sweep away present state restrictions on same-sex marriage or nullify state law that extends marriage rights to same-sex couples. Fact.

That said, Hillary is the only candidate who has come out with a full and unequivocal statement of support for gay youth and the only one who has not registered "personal" or religious opposition to gay marriage. Those are two strong reasons why I support her. Edward's heart is in the right place or near it, I think, which is one reason he's a close second choice for me.

Obama--Obama chose to pander to the evangelical vote and "got what he wanted" out of the McClurkin fiasco. He may not be a bigot personally, but he's willing to appeal to bigotry for votes. He won't get mine.