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babylonsister (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:39 PM Original message |
A Response to Gloria Steinem |
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marylanddem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:46 PM Response to Original message |
1. Beautifully written, right on target. Thanks for posting. |
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Jai4WKC08 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:46 PM Response to Original message |
2. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt |
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Bishop Rook (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:40 PM Response to Reply #2 |
74. So if you can't or won't counter her argument... |
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Jai4WKC08 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 10:26 PM Response to Reply #74 |
97. My counter to her argument |
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flpoljunkie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:47 PM Response to Original message |
3. Wow! An excellent rebuttal--thoughtful and devastating. Thanks for posting, babylonsister. K&R |
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cindyw (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:49 PM Response to Original message |
4. This goes right along with a post I made about post movement feminism |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:50 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. Yes, it does. |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:49 PM Response to Original message |
5. "I resent, Ms. Steinem, the manner in which you pit race against gender in your op-ed. " |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:00 PM Response to Reply #5 |
15. Gloria Steinem hasn't pitted race against gender/it's going to take her courage to defeat the right |
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Darth_Kitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:43 PM Response to Reply #5 |
76. Steinem was active in the civil rights movement before she became |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:50 PM Response to Original message |
7. I'll admit that I'm not interested in what a 20yr old rich kid thinks about feminism, but I will... |
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marylanddem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:52 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Huh? Um, I thought we had freedom of speech in this country... |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:56 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. Who said we don't? I welcomed her to the fight. nt |
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Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:55 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. Why not? |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:01 PM Response to Reply #12 |
16. Yes, it is some ageism - but also classism...I'll admit it. This kid has... |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #16 |
28. It's young people's job. |
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Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #16 |
29. When Stienem presumes to lecture young women |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:10 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. Clinton and Obama have very similar proposals re: the war. |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:19 PM Response to Reply #29 |
47. Did she tell you how to vote?She told us she was voting for the Dem candidate in the general. |
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Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-11-08 01:04 AM Response to Reply #47 |
102. Everyone is sounding like Kucinich these days. |
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sufrommich (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:13 PM Response to Reply #16 |
37. Good points. |
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Texas_Kat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #16 |
45. Yes, she will... she just doesn't know it yet. |
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Nedsdag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:01 PM Response to Reply #7 |
17. "a 20 yr old rich kid" |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:07 PM Response to Reply #17 |
23. I said a lot of what she said was valid, but she does conflate two issues ... |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:36 PM Response to Reply #23 |
68. Is Dr. Rice not a woman? |
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DivorcingNeo (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:34 PM Response to Reply #68 |
88. Oh Condi doesn't count... |
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Bishop Rook (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:43 PM Response to Reply #23 |
77. High powered female attorney... |
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tishaLA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-12-08 08:44 PM Response to Reply #23 |
109. In fact, in the NYT editoral, Ms Steinem does say |
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sufrommich (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #17 |
43. Steinem is a "so called" feminist? |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:22 PM Response to Reply #43 |
52. Are you kidding, |
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sufrommich (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:31 PM Response to Reply #52 |
63. ..... |
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tigereye (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 11:29 PM Response to Reply #17 |
100. please do not call Steinem a "so-called" feminist |
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knight_of_the_star (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:48 PM Response to Reply #7 |
82. Just because she hasn't done what Steinem has |
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jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 10:58 PM Response to Reply #7 |
98. And Gloria Steinem's co-alumnae from Smith include Nancy Reagan and Barbara Bush |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:51 PM Response to Original message |
8. She thinks Gloria Steinem is irresponsible?or Clinton hasn't fought for women? |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:55 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. From Clinton's website-on women |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #11 |
39. White women have made the biggest gains in earning power, over everyone |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:39 PM Response to Reply #39 |
71. Stop speaking truth to power |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:25 PM Response to Reply #71 |
84. Tess, go to jack and jill. It's all laid out, what's going on. |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:09 PM Original message |
Obama doesn't even post his stand on reproductive rights or gender/wage issue on his website |
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krabigirl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:34 PM Response to Original message |
67. He doesn't post his stance on reproductive rights? why not? |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:40 PM Response to Reply #67 |
72. I didn;t see it. Possibly he is trying to hide it from the Repubs he wants to attract. |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:40 PM Response to Reply #67 |
73. I didn;t see it. Possibly he is trying to hide it from the Repubs he wants to attract. |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:09 PM Original message |
Obama doesn't even post his stand on reproductive rights or gender/wage issue on his website |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:11 PM Response to Reply #8 |
33. That editorial was irrenspsonsible, Not to mention filled with half truths |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:30 PM Response to Reply #33 |
58. You are being silly. |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:32 PM Response to Reply #58 |
65. How? Please explain |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:52 PM Response to Original message |
10. I hope that Ms. Steinem |
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DURHAM D (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:11 PM Response to Reply #10 |
31. It would not be a fair fight. |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:24 PM Response to Reply #31 |
53. I'm seeing quite a bit of divisiveness |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
14. I think she misses or misunderstands several things. |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:02 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. You get fired for making racial comments, but often a few laughs when you make sexist ones. |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:06 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. I know a man who was fired for sexual harassment... |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:08 PM Response to Reply #21 |
25. Watch televsion and count the derogatory remarks about women. Then do so for those about race.nt |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:13 PM Response to Reply #25 |
35. Please. Do women of color not count as women? |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #35 |
40. Yes -- Black women and Hispanic women are women. |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:22 PM Response to Reply #35 |
50. You are jumping to conclusions that my statements don't make. |
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Texas_Kat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:20 PM Response to Reply #25 |
49. Just watch Fox news for 5 minutes and notice the women's wardrobes |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:22 PM Response to Reply #25 |
51. It'd be nice, if blacks weren't relegated to the WB/CW |
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VotesForWomen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-11-08 05:02 AM Response to Reply #25 |
105. word. nt |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. Obviously there was more to the story. |
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DURHAM D (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #21 |
38. A single anecdotal example - boy that changes everything. n/t |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:16 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Mookie gave no anecdotes at all. But you agree with Mookie? |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:24 PM Response to Reply #42 |
54. What's the purpose? They're both bad. By the way, 'MookieWilson' is the... |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:24 PM Response to Reply #21 |
55. Oh sexism is perfectly acceptable. It's misogyny which is not. n/t |
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tishaLA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-12-08 08:46 PM Response to Reply #14 |
110. For your perusal, Sparkly |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:04 PM Response to Original message |
19. THANK YOU!!!!!!!! |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:06 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. "She's never been friendly to the plight of women of color" |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. VERY true. nt |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:13 PM Response to Reply #27 |
36. You are agreeing with a lie about a fine woman. nt |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:19 PM Original message |
I'm agreeding with the poster that the author's statement is NOT true. GS reached out... |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:32 PM Response to Original message |
64. I apologize for misunderstanding your post. |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:11 PM Response to Reply #22 |
32. Dead wrong |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #22 |
44. No, YOU are dead wrong. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:19 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. No, YOU are dead wrong. |
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Darth_Kitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:47 PM Response to Reply #22 |
81. damn straight! |
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DivorcingNeo (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:43 PM Response to Reply #22 |
89. Let's talk Planned Parenthood (for instance) |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:07 PM Response to Reply #19 |
24. Amen, Tess99. Amen. n/t |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:30 PM Response to Reply #24 |
61. Thank you |
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DivorcingNeo (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:51 PM Response to Reply #61 |
90. Preach! |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:31 PM Response to Reply #24 |
62. Thank you |
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DURHAM D (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:16 PM Response to Reply #19 |
41. ...never been friendly to the plight of women of color... |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:28 PM Response to Reply #19 |
56. Your post doesn't ring true but try reading Steinem's book:Fifty Black Women who Changed America |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:44 PM Response to Reply #56 |
78. Read it. Typical Gloria. Black women are some "other" species in that book. |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:47 PM Response to Reply #78 |
80. Like I said m your post doesn't ring true. |
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Sparkly (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:07 PM Response to Reply #78 |
83. . |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:29 PM Response to Reply #19 |
85. Feminists Together:Ain't I A Woman? 1851 Women's Convention Akron Ohio |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:04 PM Response to Original message |
20. Civil Rights Act - 1964 |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:38 PM Response to Reply #20 |
70. good catch. OP fix that! |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:41 PM Response to Reply #70 |
75. I wondered |
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Captain Hilts (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:11 PM Response to Original message |
34. Thurghood Marshall, A Phillip Randolph, Ralph Bunche, Walter White, Gen. Davis had "no power?" |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:19 PM Response to Reply #34 |
46. So a black man got to the SCOTUS? And? What is the problem with that? |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:28 PM Response to Reply #46 |
57. You are being silly. |
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Cameron27 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:30 PM Response to Reply #57 |
60. She thinks she's being clever. |
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Tess99 (249 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:34 PM Response to Reply #57 |
66. Silly? Because you can't answer the question either? |
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terisan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:32 PM Response to Reply #66 |
86. Tess If you are going to quote Sojourner Truth as above give that great feminist credit! |
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VotesForWomen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-11-08 05:06 AM Response to Reply #46 |
106. Uh, there's no 'problem.' when did the white woman get there, and when will the non-white woman? |
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DivorcingNeo (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:57 PM Response to Reply #34 |
93. So fucken what? |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:30 PM Response to Original message |
59. Kayandore |
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BeyondGeography (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:38 PM Response to Original message |
69. Impressive...I suspect that's not the last we'll hear of young Ariel |
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Bishop Rook (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 07:47 PM Response to Original message |
79. What strikes me, in all of this... |
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fightindonkey (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:33 PM Response to Original message |
87. Playing The Race Card, Yet Again. Sinks Obama More and More. Keep It Coming. |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 09:21 PM Response to Reply #87 |
96. He's just shucking and jiving |
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cindyw (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:52 PM Response to Original message |
91. I reread this and now I think Babylonsister for President! |
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jpgray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 08:53 PM Response to Original message |
92. It's the privilege of the young to fall for one set of platitudes over another |
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Honeycombe8 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 09:07 PM Response to Original message |
94. Ah, youth. As a middle aged woman, I suppose I see the picture that Steinem |
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sufrommich (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 09:11 PM Response to Reply #94 |
95. I hear ya indie...well said. nt |
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VotesForWomen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-11-08 05:08 AM Response to Reply #94 |
107. don't you know it's not lady-like to point those things out? nt |
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martymar64 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 11:17 PM Response to Original message |
99. IN Jim Crow days, the word of a white woman could spell death for a black man |
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Anouka (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-11-08 02:45 AM Response to Reply #99 |
103. I don't think they want to. |
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Honeycombe8 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-12-08 08:28 PM Response to Reply #99 |
108. True. And then they'd take that woman out back and beat the crap out of her. |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jan-10-08 11:38 PM Response to Original message |
101. "it means to use that right responsibly" |
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VotesForWomen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jan-11-08 04:59 AM Response to Original message |
104. Ahh, silly young thing. Her upbringing was nothing like Hilary's, and Obama is more like Hilary tha |
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avaistheone1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jan-12-08 08:51 PM Response to Original message |
111. Women are always on the lowest totem in virtually evey race, culture, and country. |
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