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Edited on Wed Dec-07-05 05:54 PM by Rich Hunt
to start.
First of all, you are conflating and reading into the OP and the Voice article a lot of conspiracy theory (CT) stuff that is not in my post or the article. One tactic of official conspiracy theory apolitists (OCTA) like you
Where did I define my beliefs? I didn't.
I'll note that you 'apologists' and whores for the perpetrators and profiteers have LONG used this tactic of borrowing OUR tactics...it's the old childish 'eye for an eye' bullshit.
Well, I'm not 'reading' anything into it. You're using the language of a religious zealot. Your gleeful 'proclamation' presumes unanimity...a unanimity that at its ugliest, New Yorkers, is enforced by harassment, trespassing and attempted murder, judging from the harassment I've gotten from your goon squads the past four years. I mean, as long as we're trotting out our 'victim' cred and all...someone tried to kill both me and my father in the past couple of years. And that's not all.
-- that is believers in the fanciful notion that a guy in a cave in the most primitive country in the world alone directed 19 arabs to defy physics and evade a trillion dollar air defense system
I did not say I believed this. Please acknowledge this, Ms. Authoritative, or retract.
I'm waiting for that apology. I do not believe in 'fanciful' (that's New York Press-speak for "Irish", by the way, as in..."oh those Irish all believe in 'fairytales') notions. Please do stop with your constant attempts and veiled threats that I am 'fanciful'.
-- is to confuse the questioning of the official theory with every bizarre CT in the country. Where did the Voice or I say "we" are being silenced by a massive conspiracy of various institutions?
Well, you did make a 'triumphant' post about how 'we' got 'our' side into the paper...and that clearly implies unanimity. You apologists DO have a problem with the concept of 'implication', don't you?
There are people I consider not credible who believe that the planes had pods or were mere holograms. Just because I don't believe the official story, doesn't mean I buy every CT out there, like those, and I did not refer to them. If you ask me, I would say the conspiracy, if there was one, was very small, consisting of the criminals at the top who have already proven that they are both murderous and incompetent and callous toward human life, in Iraq and Katrina.
No, you DON'T believe in every CT out there. But you are zealously pushing THE 'conspiracy theory' (note the quotes) of the moment, and quite heavy-handedly, with the constant implication that this is the 'norm' or SHOULD be for this board.
This is NOT a Protestant church - this is a Democrats board that should reflect ALL the views of 'Democrats and other progressives'. Your views are plain to anyone who doesn't share the values of mandatory unanimity.
And I will note that you AGAIN use the binary logic: "if you don't buy MY theory, you must believe in holograms and pod people and everything else." At this point, people have GOT to see that your language and the arguments you employ give you and your cultural origins away.
As far as this being a populist issue, you must not know New York very well. I see from your profile you are from Chicago.
Yes, some of you east coasters DO have a habit of 'one-upping' us and snooping in all of our business.
I work two blocks north of ground zero.
Well la-dee-da.
60 percent of New Yorkers polled believe the government was complicit in 9/11. That's a populist idea by my book.
What is the source of this 'poll' and the methodology? Moreover, if 'the government' - an idiotic phrase if I've ever heard one - was complicit, you are making a nasty and anti-populist, hateful and cynical conclusion about the American people, especially the urbanites who tend to work 'in government'. You DO realize that you're talking about millions of employees, many of whom are Democrats and many of whom post here?
It wasn't CT minded DUers or narrow minded bloggers that got this story on the front page of the Voice. It is that there is a big truth movement in NYC,
If there is, it sure as hell isn't YOUR 'truth movement' (is that anything like 'truth drugs'?) I mean, cut the crap, this 'truth' stuff has been so abused lately it's positively Orwellian.
supported by a majority of the population. There are lots of commercials on TV in the NYC market by a few rich guys who are clearly pissed at the white wash and believe that the government is lying about 9/11, saying the whole thing needs to be reopened. There are regular lectures in NYC by OCTA sceptics. So this is a populist thing in this city.
Why do you continue to use the word 'populism'? Tell me, where did you get this word? I didn't use it. I am wondering where you paid shills and PR people and slaves for the ruling class get all of these phrases...because they appear to come out of the research that has been done against me.
You see, that has been their tactic all along - stalk the shit out of me for years, monitor all of my research and thought and concerns (including 'populism' - a term whose political history you have no apparent familiarity with...you've been clearly TOLD to use it)...and then throw those terms back at me as a veiled 'we are watching you' threat when I get too 'uppity' and dare to talk back to the hateful Nazi WASPs who run the east coast.
Tell me, what is your actual familiarity with 'political populism' here? Because you seem to just throw the term around, and like a lot of bullshit that's been thrown at me the past four years, it's more than a little odd.
I'm amazed that you believe you can read my mind, and assume that I wrote the OP to boast that:
"the real purpose of the original message is to boast: 'hey, we got our little 'beef' into that left-wing (but still 'credentialed') rag the Village Voice'. In fact the description in the original post sounds as if it were written by a Voice marketing department..."
Now that's really horseshit.
No, it's not. I've seen enough of your tactics, veiled threats and propaganda. What's next...slipping my dog's name into your next response?
From the perspective of NYC, my only celebration is that the MSM -- and the VV is pretty much MSM -- is finally recognizing what another poster called the 800 pound gorilla in the middle of city's living room -- namely that the horrific, surreal attack that we all experienced has much deeper and more sinister meaning than we have been led to believe. Do you really think "we" are taking credit for it? That the reporters of the Voice can't see for themselves what is going on in NYC and with its public opinion?
Now you're getting cowardly and you're backtracking.
Look upthread - you clearly had a definite 'theory'...it was 'controlled demolition' and it was 'the government' that did it, and if you don't believe this, you believe the 'official story' in its entirety, you're being forced into a 'dungeon' (well, that's a fucking laugh considering how I've been treated the past four years).
Now you're moderating your 'explanation', I'll note. Well good.
As for the Voice, it is not just a lifestyle or alternative newspaper. The Voice is well known for investigative reporting, and its reporters have won Pulitzer prizes and other journalistic recognition for real, hard news reporting.
Yes, it is. Nice piece of PR writing there. You already said that. And I said that they have no expertise in the area of science and engineering writing. How polite and civic of you to ignore that.
Finally, you wrote:
"but 'discrediting' professional organizations and the government as a whole appears to be one of the goals of these propagandists. I repeat, this was NEVER the goal of progressive political activist groups. Only extremists and paranoids hold that view."
So are you saying that criticizing the criminals who have hijacked our government is a sinister attempt to discredit all professional organizations and goverment?
How exactly does one 'hijack a government'? Well, actually, you ought to know more about that than I do. Your logic stinks. If 'the government' is 'hijacked'...then by logic, it's not 'the government' who did it - it's the hijackers! Well done, servant!
Your 'I'm so oppressed and in a dungeon, and apparently no scientist or engineer is my friend since we can't find one to support us...ergo, they must all be in on it' implication most certainly IS part of the extreme right-wing program to discredit government as an idea and professionalism (especially science) as an idea.
It's funny how on one forum on DU you can read about the Bush administration's attacks on science, but here you get the implication that the science and engineering community is soooo oppressive because they won't 'get behind' 'controlled demolition'.
Is that your point? Don't talk bad about Shrub, Cheney, and Rumsfeld because it makes the US look bad?
That is also incorrect and ludicrous.
As though they represent the best of American institutions and government?
You are backpedalling here.
What you are really saying is that we have love bush and not recognize what he is doing, or else we will hurt America.
This makes no sense whatsoever, and is curiously written in a different 'accent' from the rest of your composition.
I take a very different view, my friend. I say we have to call these criminals out to save America.
I say so, too. But 'the criminals' are not firemen, or civil engineers, or architects, or scientists, or even French filmmakers.
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