BFEE is more than capable of bombing their own countrymen.

[Octafish]

While I don't know who or what is responsible for the London bombings, I do know that the Bush Transnational Criminal Enterprise is more than capable of bombing their own.

If you don’t agree. Great. I respect your opinion.

But you may not have read about the Bolgna train station bombing in 1980, the CIA attack on Sheikh Fadlallah in 1985 or Operation NORTHWOODS of 1962.



In Bologna, ultra-rightwing Operation GLADIO operatives killed 85 people and wounded hundreds more in an attempt to lay blame on the left: from the liberals and progressives to the socialists and commies.

THE BOLOGNA TRAIN STATION BOMBING

A huge explosion at the Bologna train station two years after Moro's death may have whitened the hair of many Italians - not just for the grisly toll of 85 killed and more than 200 injured - but for the official inaction that followed. Although the investigating magistrates suspected neofascists, they were unable to issue credible arrest warrants for more than two years because of false data from the secret services. By that time, all but one of the five chief suspects, two of whom had ties to SID, had skipped the country. 74 The T4 explosive found at the scene matched the Gladio material used in Brescia, Peteano and other bombings, according to expert testimony before Judge Mastelloni. 75

In the trial, the judges cited the ``strategy of tension and its ties to `foreign powers.''' They also found the secret military and civilian structure tied into neofascist groups, P-2, and the secret services. 76 In short, they found the CIA and Gladio.

But their efforts to exact justice for the Bologna bombing came to nothing when, in 1990, the court of appeals acquitted all the alleged ``brains.'' P-2 head Gelli went free, as did two secret service chiefs whose perjury convictions were overturned. Four gladiators convicted of participating in an armed group also won appeals. That left Peteano as the only major bombing case with a conviction of the actual bomber, thanks to Vinciguerra's confession.

The sorry judicial record in these monstrous crimes showed how completely the Gladio network enveloped the army, police, secret services and the top courts. Thanks to P-2, with its 963 well-placed brothers, 77 the collusion also extended into the top levels of media and business.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

FRUITS OF GLADIO

By the early 1980s, however, court data revealed enough CIA fingerprints to provoke strong anti-U.S. sentiment. In 1981, the offices of three U.S. firms in Rome were bombed. In 1982, the Red Brigades kidnapped James L. Dozier, a U.S. general attached to NATO, calling him a ``Yankee hangman.'' 78 He was freed after five weeks by police commandos, reportedly with the help of the CIA's Mafia connections. 79 But damage to the U.S. image has been remarkably constrained considering what the U.S. did to Italian society and government for 50 years in the name of anticommunism.

CONTINUED…

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/gladio.html

Remember St. Ronnie Pruneface's CIA director, Poppy Bush's one-time campaign manager and all around family friend, Mr. William Casey? He, a Roman Catholic, authorized the bombing of a certain Sheikh who may've been a bastard, but certainly wasn't a bastard worth killing 80 innocent people over in 1985.

Lebanon: Another civil war the United States felt compelled to take part in, leading to the terrible bombings of the American Embassy and Marine barracks in 1983, followed, in December of that year, by American ships firing some 700 shells into the Beirut mountains, missing their military targets but causing destruction in civilian areas. In 1985, William Casey and a Saudi prince conspired to eliminate Muslim leader Sheikh Fadlallah, believed to be connected to the attacks on the American facilities. This plot culminated in March when the men employed to carry out the elimination drove a car bomb into a Beirut suburb near Fadlallah's residence. The explosion took 80 lives, wounded 200, and left widespread devastation. Fadlallah escaped without injury.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA/Reagan_CIA.html

NORTHWOODS was a strategy proposed by the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff to stage terrorist incidents involving American citizens, including hijacking airliners, to build public support for an invasion of Cuba. The plan was rejected by President John F. Kennedy who then fired the Chairman of the JCS, Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer. Here’s a very good overview:

OPERATION NORTHWOODS:
US PLANNED FAKE TERROR ATTACKS ON CITIZENS
TO CREATE SUPPORT FOR CUBAN WAR

From BODY OF SECRETS, James Bamford, Doubleday, 2001, p.82 and following. Scanned and edited by NY Transfer News.

...In Lemnitzer's view, the country would be far better off if the generals could take over.

For those military officers who were sitting on the fence, the Kennedy administration's botched Bay of Pigs invasion was the last straw. "The Bay of Pigs fiasco broke the dike," said one report at the time. "President Kennedy was pilloried by the super patriots as a 'no-win' chief . . . The Far Right became a fount of proposals born of frustration and put forward in the name of anti-Communism. . . Active-duty commanders played host to anti-Communist seminars on their bases and attended or addressed Right-wing meetings elsewhere."

Although no one in Congress could have known it at the time, Lemnitzer and the Joint Chiefs had quietly slipped over the edge.
According to secret and long-hidden documents obtained for Body of Secrets, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. In the name of antiCommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba.

CONTINUED…

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

Gee. I guess we can’t all be good guys. Especially when our government adopts the means and methods of the enemy to defeat communism then, terrorism today and, when Rove gets his way, liberalism.



This guy got "fired" for opposing the right wing in Cuba, Vietnam and a probably a whole lot of places we haven't heard about.

[Octafish]

1. So discussion of the BFEE and current events is relegated to backwaters.

Interesting.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dbeach]

7. lots of pearls in back waters

but ya is rt quite natch

only safe place for me to swim and can still be the occassional piranna attack

[Octafish]

12. It's a regular Who's Who on DU here.

I like it.

If you and the rest of the team in the water and on the beach will have me, I'd like to make it a home.

[dbeach]

16. ya home bro..your distinguished pursuit of TRUTH is our greatest asset.

the criminals don't have a chance..

[Octafish]

37. Working together makes victory possible.

The Bundle of Sticks

An old man on the point of death summoned his sons around him to give them some parting advice. He ordered his servants to bring in a bundle of sticks, and said to his eldest son: "Break it." The son strained and strained, but with all his efforts was unable to break the bundle. The other sons also tried, but none of them was successful. "Untie the bundle," said the father, "and each of you take a stick." When they had done so, he called out to them: "Now, break," and each stick was easily broken. "You see my meaning," said their father. Instantly, they understood.

Union gives strength.

[Old and In the Way]

26. I got some primo beachfront real estate here for ya' Octafish!

Anything you post is worth my time to read. :toast:

[Octafish]

38. On the beach? Having you for a neighbor? I'm moving.

In fact, I'd rather live in the next cell to an intelligent, good-hearted patriot like you in Gitmo than rule the world with the likes of George Walker Bush.

Thanks, (Never) Old and In the Way. Same goes.

[i miss america]

40. There's nothing wrong with the backwaters when great posts such as yours

float up to the surface and stay buoyant here for days. That "Body of Secrets" looks like a good book. Thanks for the suggestion.

:yourock:

[Ugnmoose]

3. Agreed

This deserves to be in GD for all to see!!!

[Octafish]

9. What Wayne Masden said today

BFEE means serious business.
They play for keeps.
And all good people need to hear it.

ITALIAN NEWS OF "CONTROL LINKS" BETWEEN U.S. AND TERRORIST GROUPS BROKE TWO DAYS BEFORE LONDON TRANSPORT BOMBINGS (SEE STORY BELOW). TRAIN BOMBINGS IN MADRID AND LONDON SIMILAR TO ITALIAN FASCIST/U.S.-BACKED BOMBING OF BOLOGNA TRAIN STATION IN 1980. THAT BOMBING LEFT 85 DEAD AND 200 INJURED. A PREVIOUS FASCIST BOMBING OF THE ITALICUS EXPRESS TRAIN NEAR BOLOGNA IN AUG. 1974 KILLED 12 AND INJURED 48. ITALIAN SOURCES ARE NOW REVEALING DETAILS OF U.S. "LEVEL OF CONTROL" FOR TERRORIST GROUPS, INCLUDING THOSE LINKED TO AL QAEDA. KIDNAPED IMAM ABU OMAR AND SISMI DEPUTY CHIEF NICOLA CALIPARI HAD DISCOVERED THESE TIES. THESE LINKS INVOLVE PARALLEL INTELLIGENCE NETWORKS THAT HAVE BEEN OPERATIONAL FOR DECADES AND WHICH ARE BEING EXPOSED BY THE ITALIAN MEDIA.

At least 40 people were reportedly killed in the London bombings with hundreds more injured. The bombings took place during morning rush hour. The explosions were in rapid succession: 8:51 am at Aldgate East station near Liverpool Street rail station, 8:56 am at King's Cross/Russell Square station; 9:17 am at Edgware Road station; and 9:47 am on a London Transport double decker bus at Tavistock Square near the British Museum. The death toll is expected to increase. There have been reports that in recent days, British security officials reduced the terrorist alert levels for London, even as Britain prepared for the G8 Summit in Scotland.


Tavistock Square bus bombing

A new group "Secret Organization -- Al Qaeda Jihad in Europe" claimed credit for London bombings. However, anyone can post to the Islamist web site where the claim appeared. Nothing is known previously about this group. However, it has warned Denmark and Italy about similar attacks. Observers also point to the odd name of the group, which sounds contrived and not in keeping with past Jihadist nomenclature.

Italy, targeted by the new group, is now the scene of a major exposé on past U.S. and Israeli support for terrorist groups, including those infiltrated by U.S. and Israeli agents. These shadowy groups kidnaped Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro and bombed two trains in Bologna.

Hours before the London bombings took place, a highly-connected U.S. intelligence source, speaking on a condition of anonymity, postulated that Vice President Dick Cheney and a cabal of neo-conservatives working in his office and the Pentagon had prior knowledge of the 911 terrorist attacks on New York City and the Pentagon and used them for maximum political advantage.  Bush, who reportedly had no pre-knowledge of the specific attacks, was nevertheless used as a stage prop by the neo-cons, going to locations where he was instructed to go and parroting pre-prepared anti-terrorism statements.


CONTINUED...

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

Thanks for the kind words and sorry about the all-caps, Ugnmoose. It's great to read you.

[Octafish]

15. What's Behind the London Attacks?

Anyone know this guy? Sounds like he's been following the BFEE story.

Besides, how can you NOT like someone whose column is named "Cannon Fodder"?

What's Behind the London Attacks?

The bombing of the London Underground was a false-flag operation designed to keep the West mired in war. Don't believe otherwise.

By Matt Hutaff Jul 7, 2005

Only one word sprang to mind when I heard about the bombings that claimed the lives of dozens of Londoners today – convenient.

Is there anything convenient in death, or in thousands of lives destroyed from catastrophe? No – and words cannot express the sorrow I feel for the men and women changed by today's events. But governments with skeletons in their closets have a great deal to gain from a national tragedy bolstered by "terrorism."

As I sit in my office today, I hear the whispers of co-workers now utterly convinced our war on terror must continue. Despite American and British involvement in the Middle East birthing wave after wave of rebel forces, the Bush doctrine is now justified in the minds of millions. Petty grievances such as the Downing Street Minutes, the President's flagging support and Karl Rove's treasonous outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame are unimportant. A shadowy conglomeration is out to kill us.

Sound familiar? It should – the same emotional ploy was used to great effect on Americans in the wake of September 11th. Question nothing, particularly your cries for vengeance or that nagging feeling in the back of your head. Justice delayed is justice denied.

Unlike four years ago, however, I refuse to accept that the attack on London was anything less than a false-flag operation designed to enrage Western "civilization" against the Middle East. Why? Because there is no reason for "terrorist" groups to attack England. As recently as this week, the Ministry of Defense announced that plans were being drafted that would pull British armed forces from the quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan. With the British effectively admitting they're throwing in the towel, the only motivation to stay could come from an attack that compels the forces to stay and fight "global terrorism."

CONTINUED...

http://www.thesimon.com/magazine/articles/canon_fodder/0889_what_behind_london_attacks.html

[dbeach]

17. when in doubt .use the terror or fear card...

cover for all the sand in bush castle beginning to fade away from the multi-hurricaine summer..
I luv summer!

its either the bush family or the USA ...who will go..??

"Rendez vous with destiny'


I will pray for all the innocents slaughtered in the GGWOT
or George Global War on Terrorism..
not to be confused with George Goble

[nashville_brook]

19. ah HA! i knew i wasn't dreaming

i heard this on npr when i woke up to the news yesterday

A new group "Secret Organization -- Al Qaeda Jihad in Europe" claimed credit for London bombings. However, anyone can post to the Islamist web site where the claim appeared. Nothing is known previously about this group. However, it has warned Denmark and Italy about similar attacks. Observers also point to the odd name of the group, which sounds contrived and not in keeping with past Jihadist nomenclature.

and it made me think about how Rasmussen pressed Bush on Gitmo. And how the Italians are pissed about our covert CIA ops and kidnappings there. and how the Downing Street memo much be chapping Bush's ass. doing the math -- only countries that have interfered with Bush were threatened by this heretofore unknown terrorist group.

[sojourner]

22. must not attempt to think for yourself...only way to know truth

is to rely on superior thought processes displayed by "credible" sources.

:sarcasm:

[stickdog]

4. So who are all of these "al Qaeda" terrorists, anyway?

Israel quite obviously deals with a large number of hardline Islamic fundamentalist terrorist attacks on a weekly (or, at best, monthly) basis:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/victims.html

The webpage linked above lists over 350 separate fatal incidents resulting in well over 1000 Israeli fatalities since September, 2000.

But I haven't yet located a single incident out of these 350+ in which more than 30 Israelis died. Nor have I found a single example of a well-coordinated, multiple-attack terrorist strike (defined as three or more separate fatal acts of terrorism executed within a span of three hours). Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I could direct me to these entries?

Now, it seems to me that the more sophisticated and spectacular an act of terrorism is -- the more, shall we say, made-for-TV -- the greater chance that this dramatically successful act of terrorism was state sponsored to achieve some political end. This is purely a function of the far greater MEANS and OPPORTUNITY of state sponsored mil/intel organizations when compared with those of the typical Jihadist terrorists they are tasked with foiling. Surely, we would all agree that this exact pattern (of highly dramatic and potent terrorist acts correlating with covert state sponsored activities) is quite typical in the historical records of many perhaps less "politically enlightened" regions -- such as Indonesia, South Africa and Latin America, for example.

Unlike Israel (which deals with far more numerous but typically far less potent Jihadist attacks), the USA & Great Britain appear to deal almost exclusively with spectacularly successful, well-coordinated, highly sophisticated MADE-FOR-TV Goldfinger/Dr. No-type terrorists.

The Jihadist terrorists attacking Israel don't typically choose highly symbolic strike dates (like 9/11 or 7.7 -- with years of inactivity between) to launch singular and discrete but highly memorable, extremely fatal and very well-coordinated multi-strikes. In contrast, real terrorist organizations almost invariably attempt to highlight the desperate straits of their causes by aggressively claiming full responsibility for their violent acts using previously known and recognized channels and spokesmen. Furthermore, these real Jihadist terrorist organizations do not put a premium on huge and horrifically fatal MADE-FOR-TV terror muscle-flexing but instead foster a continual atmosphere of perilousness by striking whenever, wherever and however they can.

Maybe I'm far too cynical, but I've started to suspect that the term "al Qaeda" has now come to simply signify any anonymous act of terror that might otherwise appear sophisticated enough to implicate state-sponsored mil/intel. I realize that this is a generalization at best, but please understand the context in which I'm daring to utter such blasphemous thoughtcrime. Our entire corporate media apparatus and political hierarchy have already convicted Islamic fundamentalists of today's crimes with nary a shred of backing evidence. In contrast, I'm not trying to convince anyone to jump to any hasty conclusions -- just to duly consider all logically probable alternatives.

[Octafish]

10. Couldn’t agree more stickdog.

We have to have an enemy.

These turds behind the attacks – whether they wear $5,000 suits or burkhas – are an elite scum. And they're a well-played layer of sub-stooges who make money off of war, because no matter who it is that's behind the bombings, Bush benefits.

So that's why I battle to bring up who the smirking idiot is and what the crazy monkey represents. Oh yes. And their treason, too.

Speaking of creating Al Qaeda, did ya hear about the mujahedin and how Brzezinski did all he could to start a war with the Soviets, which'd be great for the economy. I mean country. Blowback from the war in Afghanistan in the human form of Osama bin Laden and his followers are all around the world.

According to this 1998 interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, the CIA's intervention in Afghanistan preceded the 1979 Soviet invasion. This decision of the Carter Administration in 1979 to intervene and destabilise Afghanistan is the root cause of Afghanistan's destruction as a nation.

M.C.

The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser

Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Posted at globalresearch.ca 15 October 2001

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

SNIP...

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

B: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

B: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn't a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

CONTINUED...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

It's great to read you, too, stickdog! You're a sight for sore eyes!

[Frederik]

20. Excellent analysis

This should be a separate thread in GD. You basically nailed it - jihadists in Israel and in the Muslim world never carry out these sophisticated, coordinated multiple high-explosive attacks. The only three attacks they pull off in the west during a period of four years are massive, highly successful and yet their pre-attack activities pass under the radar of security services.

My initial reaction to this attack was that it was probably London-based "foreign fighters" who had returned from Iraq. This seems to be the dominant line of speculation in London today as well. But it will certainly be interesting to see how this develops and who will be presented as perpetrators.

[pox americana]

5. Absolutely.

Especially NYC, ground zero for everybody they hate. Or is that redundant.

Anyway what delicious payback that Chimpster was every so briefly their hero, or supposed to be.

[Octafish]

11. Life is short. Treason is forever.

We'll get these traitors.

BTW: A most hearty welcome to DU, pox americana.



We'll get these traitors.

BTW: A most hearty welcome to DU, pox americana.

NATO’s secret armies linked to terrorism?

At a time when experts are debating whether NATO is suited to deal with the global “war on terror”, new research suggests that the alliance’s own secret history has links to terrorism.


By Daniele Ganser for ISN Security Watch (15/12/04)

Editor’s Note: This report written by Daniele Ganser is based on excerpts from his newly released book, “NATO’s Secret Armies. Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe”, released this week by Frank Cass in London. The book describes NATO’s clandestine operations during the Cold War. The research was prompted by a story that made world headlines in 1990 but quickly disappeared, ensuring that even today, NATO’s secret armies remain just that - secret. Until now, a full investigation of NATO’s secret armies had not been carried out - a task that Ganser has taken on single-handedly and quite successfully.

In Italy, on 3 August 1990, then-prime minister Giulio Andreotti confirmed the existence of a secret army code-named “Gladio” - the Latin word for “sword” - within the state. His testimony before the Senate subcommittee investigating terrorism in Italy sent shockwaves through the Italian parliament and the public, as speculation arose that the secret army had possibly manipulated Italian politics through acts of terrorism. Andreotti revealed that the secret Gladio army had been hidden within the Defense Ministry as a subsection of the military secret service, SISMI. General Vito Miceli, a former director of the Italian military secret service, could hardly believe that Andreotti had lifted the secret, and protested: "I have gone to prison because I did not want to reveal the existence of this super secret organization. And now Andreotti comes along and tells it to parliament!" According to a document compiled by the Italian military secret service in 1959, the secret armies had a two-fold strategic purpose: firstly, to operate as a so-called “stay-behind” group in the case of a Soviet invasion and to carry out a guerrilla war in occupied territories; secondly, to carry out domestic operations in case of “emergency situations”. The military secret services’ perceptions of what constituted an “emergency” was well defined in Cold War Italy and focused on the increasing strength of the Italian Communist and the Socialist parties, both of which were tasked with weakening NATO “from within”. Felice Casson, an Italian judge who during his investigations into right-wing terrorism had first discovered the secret Gladio army and had forced Andreotti to take a stand, found that the secret army had linked up with right-wing terrorists in order to confront “emergency situations”. The terrorists, supplied by the secret army, carried out bomb attacks in public places, blamed them on the Italian left, and were thereafter protected from prosecution by the military secret service. "You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game,” right-wing terrorist Vincezo Vinciguerra explained the so-called “strategy of tension” to Casson. “The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security. This is the political logic that lies behind all the massacres and the bombings which remain unpunished, because the state cannot convict itself or declare itself responsible for what happened."

No comment from NATO or the CIA

How strongly NATO and US intelligence backed and supported the use of terror in Italy in order to discredit the political left during the Cold War remains subject of ongoing research. General Gerardo Serravalle, who had commanded the Italian Gladio secret army from 1971 to 1974, confirmed that the secret army “could pass from a defensive, post-invasion logic, to one of attack, of civil war”. The Italian Senate chose to be more explicit and concluded in its investigation in 2000: "Those massacres, those bombs, those military actions had been organized or promoted or supported by men inside Italian state institutions and, as has been discovered more recently, by men linked to the structures of United States intelligence." Ever since the discovery of the secret NATO armies in 1990, research into stay-behind armies has progressed only very slowly, due to very limited access to primary documents and the refusal of both NATO and the CIA to comment. On 5 November 1990, a NATO spokesman told an inquisitive press: "NATO has never contemplated guerrilla war or clandestine operations”. The next day, NATO officials admitted that the previous day’s denial had been false, adding that the alliance would not comment on matters of military secrecy. On 7 November, NATO’s highest military official in Europe, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) US General John Galvin, together with NATO’s highest civilian official, Secretary-General Manfred Wörner, briefed NATO ambassadors behind closed doors. "Since this is a secret organization, I wouldn't expect too many questions to be answered,” reasoned a senior NATO diplomat, who wished to remain unnamed. “If there were any links to terrorist organizations, that sort of information would be buried very deep indeed.” Former CIA director William Colby confirmed in his memoirs that setting up the secret armies in Western Europe had been “a major program” for the CIA. The project started after World War II in total secrecy, and access to information was limited “to the smallest possible coterie of the most reliable people, in Washington, in NATO” and in the countries concerned. Yet when in Italy in 1990 former CIA director Admiral Stansfield Turner was questioned on television on Gladio, he strictly refused to answer any questions on the sensitive issue, and as the interviewer insisted with respect for the terror victims, Stansfield angrily ripped off his microphone and shouted: "I said, no questions about Gladio!", whereafter the interview was over.

That don't need repeating. This does.

Chimpster was ever so briefly their hero.



Chimpster was ever so briefly their hero.

[dbeach]

6. bush relative and gunpowder plot of 1605

today on 7/7/05 in London may have been a re-enactment of the crime.

its in their veins..TREASON. only circumstances change and names. themes are constant...death.fear,destruction.mayhem.
BTW its getting harder to find bush family info than finding a certain osama beenin london.

beneath each bush is lots of dirt..



http://www.bladegash.net/forums/showpost.php?p=187354&postcount=16

"Father George and Barbara Bush are from the Pierce Bloodline that changed its name from Percy after fleeing England in the wake of the Gunpowder Plot led by Guy Fawkes to blow up the British Parliament and kill King James I in 1605. This event is still celebrated in the UK every Nov.5th. Bush ancestor Thomas Percy was one of the main plotters.
Father George and Barbara Pierce Bush are from the same bloodline as the former president Franklin Pierce (1853-1857). Other Bush relatives include the Grosvenor families of England and America, the Tafts of Ohio..whom produced William Howard Taft (president,1909-1913), and the Delano-Roosevelts, whom produced Frankiln (1933-1945) and Theodore (1901-1909). (Franklin being responsible of course, for the Emergency Banking Act of 1933 aforementioned. The English Grosvenors are the Dukes of Westminster whom own prime properties in the City of London.The Grosvenors of America founded National Geographic, which is notorious for removing archaeological treasures from around the world, especially those with some sort of religious significance, and relocating them at the Smithsonian Insitute in Washington D.C. Whom is it run by? The Grosvenor cousins, the Smithson, whom in turn are descended from the Percys-----the Pierce bloodline that produced the Bush clan.The ancestry of Bush can be traced back to both Charlemange and Alfred the Great, making a MASS of bloodline collections detailed in *Burke's Peerage*. They are also related to the royal family (if that isn't obvious.)
and the two groups are quite close."

[Octafish]

13. The guy's name is on the CIA building for a reason.

Conspiracies In Action, so they say.

Found this on Rense.com this morning:

The Provocateur State:
Is the CIA Behind the Iraqi "Insurgents"--and Global Terrorism?

by Frank Morales

WORLD WAR 4 REPORT, May 10, 2005 http://WW4Report.com
www.globalresearch.ca 12 May 2005


The requirement of an ever-escalating level of social violence to meet the political and economic needs of the insatiable "anti-terrorist complex" is the essence of the new US militarism.

What is now openly billed as "permanent war" ultimately serves the geo-political ends of social control in the interests of US corporate domination, much as the anti-communist crusade of the now-exhausted Cold War did.

Back in 2002, following the trauma of 9-11, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld predicted there would be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large. How could he be so sure of that? Perhaps because these attacks would be instigated on the order of the Honorable Mr. Rumsfeld. According to Los Angeles Times military analyst William Arkin, writing Oct. 27, 2002, Rumsfeld set out to create a secret army, "a super-Intelligence Support Activity" network that would "bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception," to stir the pot of spiraling global violence.

According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--would actually carry out secret missions designed to provoke terrorist groups into committing violent acts. The P2OG, a 100-member, so-called "counter-terrorist" organization with a $100-million-a-year budget, would ostensibly target "terrorist leaders," but according to P2OG documents procured by Arkin, would in fact carry out missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among "terrorist groups"--which, according to the Defense Secretary's logic, would subsequently expose them to "counter-attack" by the good guys. In other words, the plan is to execute secret military operations (assassinations, sabotage, "deception") which would intentionally result in terrorist attacks on innocent people, including Americans--essentially, to "combat terrorism" by causing it!

This notion is currently being applied to the problem of the Iraqi "insurgency," it seems. According to a May 1, 2005 report by Peter Maass in the New York Times Magazine, two of the top US advisers to Iraqi paramilitary commandos fighting the insurgents are veterans of US counterinsurgency operations in Latin America. Loaning credence to recent media speculation about the "Salvadorization" of Iraq, the report notes that one adviser currently in Iraq is James Steele, who led a team of 55 US Army Special Forces advisers in El Salvador in the 1980s. Maass writes that these advisors "trained front-line battalions that were accused of significant human rights abuses."

CONTINUED w/LINKs...

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MOR505A.html

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. The new Russia.

What is now openly billed as "permanent war" ultimately serves the geo-political ends of social control in the interests of US corporate domination, much as the anti-communist crusade of the now-exhausted Cold War did.

[Octafish]

35. False flag over London

These BFEE turds benefit from war. It doesn't matter who's side they're "on." Commie vs Fascisti: They play both against each other.

False flag over London

By John Leonard
Online Journal Contributing Writer

July 8, 2005—Yesterday we saw a classic false flag attack in London, organized by western secret services to distract attention from the deepening political troubles of Bush and Blair, and perhaps even to create the pretext for war on Iran. Of course, Bush and his poll ratings have been sinking under scandals and rumblings of impeachment. Blair too has been badly hurt by the Downing Street memo.

SNIP...

So how can I be so sure? The war-profiteer clique are not all that inventive. False terror is the only trick they know. If they had any idea of governance or statecraft, they wouldn't need to stoop to these toxic tactics.

One of the classic trademarks of false flag terror was on display yesterday: the "previously unknown" organization posting anonymously on a website. Of course, western intelligence, using Echelon and such tools, could track any web posting back to its source. If it wanted to.

"Real" terrorists are known groups that make concrete demands. They are an endangered species, if not extinct.

Fake terrorists—covert psy-war units of western intelligence—always invent a name of an "unknown" group. They have to do this, of course. If they claimed, say, that the PLO did it, the accused would energetically deny it, spoiling the show. So they use fictitious identities, which they can mold to suit the target of convenience.

CONTINUED...

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/070805Leonard/070805leonard.html

[Jose Diablo]

8. Two bombs in London didn't go off

There is evidence left behind in this one. I don't think the Brits will blow the evidence off like in 9-11.

They have to note the similarities to Spain and the timing. And I don't think the Brits are as gullible as we Americans were with how 9-11 went down. I think that if BFEE is behind it, the Brits will find out.

I really do hope this wasn't a blackbag job thought-up on Jupiter Island though.

[Octafish]

14. Compay, I agree with you and hope with you.

The thought my "government" would be behind such a thing is abhorent. Still, the reality is the BFEE is running the big show. No matter if they did it or not, they benefit.

Such is life for those befriended by Operation 40. Too bad they don't consider the American people "Friendlies."

JOHN NEGROPONTE & THE DEATH-SQUAD CONNECTION

Bush Nominates Terrorist for National Intelligence Director

by Frank Morales

"He will be a key figure in US counter-terror operations." --BBC News, Feb. 17, 2005

"I think he could have stopped all these assassinations and torture... We're against this nomination. If he didn't see human rights violations in Honduras, it's possible he won't see human rights violations anywhere in the world." --Leo Valladares Lanza, former head, Honduran Human Rights Commission, quoted in New York Times, March 29, 2005

On February 17, 2005, President George W. Bush nominated John Negroponte, 65, to be the United States' first National Intelligence Director." According to various published reports, Negroponte will be the president's "primary briefer" in the area of global and domestic intelligence and counter-terror operations, coordinating and overseeing the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), National Security Agency (NSA), Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and other agencies.

His upcoming Senate confirmation seems assured, and that is a scary prospect. Why? Because Negroponte has a long and bloody criminal history, dating back to the early 1960s, of overseeing the training and arming of death squads, schooled in the techniques of torture, "forced interrogation," assassination and, as we shall see, even genocide. He has been described as an "old-fashioned imperialist," active for nearly four decades in Vietnam, Central America, the Philippines, Mexico and most recently Iraq. He got his start back in the days of the CIA's Phoenix program, which assassinated some 40,000 Vietnamese "subversives."

According to Bush, the ultra-rightist Negroponte has a real grip on today's "global intelligence needs." Indeed he does. Negroponte's long career in the "foreign service" has equipped him well to fulfill the requirements of global and domestic counterinsurgency. So while newly-installed Attorney General Gonzales supplies the legal basis for torture (as he did as a Bush White House counsel), and recently-installed Homeland Security czar Michael Chertoff acquiesces (as he did as a Justice Department pointman on the post-9-11 sweeps), Negroponte is now in a position to ratchet up the repression domestically, and further the dissolution of democracy at home.

Although Negroponte's office will be in its own projected $200 million headquarters, Bush has said that Negroponte "will have access on a daily basis." Negroponte has actually had close presidential access for awhile. Not quite four years ago, on Sept. 18, 2001, as the embers were still smoking at Lower Manhattan's Ground Zero, Negroponte was appointed U.S. Representative to the United Nations. His mission was to work the floor and backrooms in preparation for Colin Powell's infamous February 2003 presentation to the UN making the case for war on Iraq--which even Powell now admits was based on falsehoods. Then in April 2004, with a counter-insurgency war in Iraq rapidly spreading, Bush nominated Negroponte to be U.S. Ambassador to that occupied nation following the June 2004 hand-over of "sovereignty" to as-yet "undetermined Iraqi authorities."

CONTINUED...

http://www.ww4report.com/negropontedeathsquad

Smiling murderers should really be called what they are: Psychotic.

[seemslikeadream]

18. What the Hades' are YOU doing down here?

http://fileserv8.soundclick.com.nyud.net:8090//images/e/song/elementsofapokalypse+whentheleveebreaks2.jpg

If it keeps on rainin’, levee’s goin’ to break,
If it keeps on rainin’, levee’s goin’ to break,
When the levee breaks I’ll have no place to stay.
Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Lord, mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.
Don’t it make you feel bad
When you’re tryin’ to find your way home,
You don’t know which way to go?
If you’re goin’ down south
They go no work to do,
If you don’t know about chicago.
Cryin’ won’t help you, prayin’ won’t do you no good,
Now, cryin’ won’t help you, prayin’ won’t do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
Thinkin’ ’bout me baby and my happy home.
Going, go’n’ to chicago,
Go’n’ to chicago,
Sorry but I can’t take you.
Going down, going down now, going down.

[Octafish]

30. If we're in Il Inferno, I'm glad to be with so many people I admire...

...and respect.

Hey, seemslikeadream! Didja hear about how screwy GLADIO is, I mean, was?

Guess what BFEE Founding Turd was there at the "Creation"?

None other than Allen "Warren Commission" Dulles:

Operation GLADIO

By David Guyatt

EXCERPT...

Information that surfaced in recent years suggests that the "Stay Behind" concept first arose in Britain. Senior military sources told the Guardian newspaper in December 1990, that a British guerrilla network was already in place following the fall of France in 1940. Numerous arm "caches" were buried for later use by a special forces ski battalion of the Scots Guards under the leadership of Brigadier "Mad Mike" Calvert. After the war, the decision was taken to create new units throughout Europe. The plan was conceived by the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and spearheaded by the newly formed CIA.

Secretly granted immunity these and thousands of other battle hardened Nazi soldiers were to form the fighting nucleus of a top secret Allied contingency group conceived by the first Director of the CIA, Allen Dulles. Loosely known as operation "Stay Behind," the idea was to build a Europe wide secret network of anti communist guerrillas who would fight behind the lines in the event of a Soviet invasion. The plan was later codified under the umbrella of the Clandestine Co-ordinating Committee of the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE), the military arm of NATO.

US planners worried over the growing influence of Italy's large and popular communist party, established Operation "Gladio" in 1956. The name derived from the short sword used by Roman legionnaires 2000 years earlier, and was almost certainly drawn from the crest of SHAPE which features two swords arranged in an "A" shape. The Gladio network was operated by the secret services and initially funded by the US Central Intelligence Agency. 622 people were recruited and trained by US and British specialists in Sardinia. It is believed that up to 15,000 members were ultimately recruited to the Gladio network.

By 1972, with the prospect of a Soviet invasion receding, a decision was taken to "make a pre-emptive attack" on the Italian communist party - who had polled 27% in that year's election - and who would go on to increase their vote to 35% just four years later. There immediately followed a series of bomb outrages signalling the beginning of a "strategy of tension," designed to shift Italian politics sharply to the right. In April 1972 a Fascist bomb attack killed three carabinieri. In November 1973, an Argo 16 aircraft was destroyed in a mid-air explosion

CONTINUED...

http://www.copi.com/articles/guyatt/gladio.html

Warmongering merchants of death brings us, naturally, to banking:

SNIP...

Licio Gelli and Propaganda Due

"The doors of all bank vaults open to the right." The words were spoken by Licio Gelli, the Venerable Master of Propaganda Due (P2), an Italian Masonic lodge with extreme right wing affiliations. P2 was a "covered" lodge, a term that denoted it was secret and operated outside of normal Masonic control. Numbered amongst its 1000 plus members were senior individuals from Italy's ruling elite. These included members of the armed services, the security and intelligence services, parliamentarians, civil servants, members of the judiciary and prominent figures from finance, industry, publishing and other sectors.

Born in Tuscany in 1919, Gelli was a fascist who saw service in a Black Shirts Battalion in the Spanish civil war. During WW11 he became a liaison officer in the SS Hermann Goering Division. This background leapfrogged him to the attention of the Italian Secret Service and later to the British and Soviet secret services. Thereafter he was to assume a shadowy and powerful role as a broker of influence in the CIA and NATO sponsored "Operation Gladio" - a covert operation that created turmoil throughout Italy during the 1960s and 1970s. Gelli's power arose from the most sensitive files gathered by the Italian secret service that were handed to him in 1967. Armed with this inside information he was able to blackmail and coerce his way across the spectrum of Italy's ruling elite, for which he was dubbed "The Puppet Master."

CONTINUED...

http://www.copi.com/articles/guyatt/gladio.html

Don't ya just love history, Dreamy?

[dbeach]

32. its all just basic training for the real deal..HELL that is.

I already met lucifer..he lives up in MA. and he ain't even into politics..YET!!

plus in the end bush and the elites get the place..like they want to own everything so they should quite naturally own hell and lets keep em there this time.

like the nuns taught me..some just plane deserve the place..

[Octafish]

36. Rod Serling's "The Howling Man"

I, too, believe what the Good Lord said. Too bad so many of those I know who profess to be Christians aren't.



http://www.scifilm.org/tv/tz/twilightzone2-5.html

[dbeach]

39. I remember that TZ episode but he freed the devil

we know better.

sending bushco to gitmo is the goal of every Truth seeker on this planet

Keep the decibel level highest possible level

most criminals will begin to panic


no man shall rule the compassionate without compassion..

[seemslikeadream]

27. genesis of something similar to the death squads in Argentina

Up to 200 Italian police 'ran parallel anti-terror force'
4 July 2005

Up to 200 police officers and former intelligence operatives are being investigated by Italian magistrates on charges of organising an illegal "parallel" police force to combat terrorism.

The shadowy group appears to have set itself up as a private security firm, offering protection to senior figures, and illicitly using official police resources. Its leaders have been accused of "usurping" public functions and illegal usie of classified data.

Judge Francesco Lalla, Genoa's chief prosecutor, said the self-styled "Department for Anti-terrorist Strategic Studies," (Dssa) maintained an arsenal of weaponry, stored by its accused commanders Gaetano Saya and Riccardo Sindaco, both with links with the Italian far right. The revelations have heightened many Italians' unease about the strategies of the government of Silvio Berlusconi, the Prime Minister, against Islamist terrorism.

<snip>

Il Messaggero quoted an investigator who said it was particularly disturbing that phone intercepts suggested Dssa members had been planning to kidnap Cesare Battisti, a Red Brigades activist living in exile in Paris. "We were seeing the genesis of something similar to the death squads in Argentina," the magistrate is reported to have said.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article296897.ece


Anybody seen Henry?
http://www.oilempire.us.nyud.net:8090/graphics/kisspick.jpg



from emad


Did the Saudis write off the Vatican's ENRON losses?
Italian turmoil connected to that litte matter of the missing $100billion from those Enron coffers?????


In November 2001 a correspondent to the UK's Catholic Herald wrote that the Vatican's estimated investment portfolio losses were in excess of $1.5billion after the collapse of Enron.

Then in June 2004 John Paul II was reported as defying the odds by travelling to visit Switzerland.

Shortly after - end July/start of August 2004 - there was a story in Africa Confidential newsletter relating to key members of the Equatorial Guines coup plot where one of the accused - Simon Mann, subsequently convicted of poltting with Mark Thatcher - was quoted as claiming he had a get-out-of-jail-card guaranteed to buy him a plea bargain with 'the cops' that related to allegations that the Saudis had paid off the Vatican's Enron portfolio losses in a deal struck by Saudi envoy to DC Prince Bandar. And that the bank transfer was struck when JP2 went to Switzerland via a string of offshore transactions related to HSBC, Saudi's National Commercial Bank and others.

Bandar has recently resigned his long term cushy sinecure as Saudi ambassador to DC.



Meanwhile, the Sacred Constantinians Military Order has grown rich beyond its wildest dreams and its CEO Anthony Bailey cannot account for his meteoric rise to wealth and priviledge.....

Website:
http://www.constantinian.org.uk/main.htm


The UK's Defence Intelligence Monitor newsletter ran a couple of pieces from 1989 to 1994 alleging that Italy's Silvio Berlusconi was ass-deep with Ken Lay in speculative ventures that may have included the restructuring of the embattled Vatican investment portfolio, that was over $500million in the red at the end of 1982 after the collapse of Banco Ambrosiano and the death of it's CEO Roberto Calvi (whose Rome murder trial resumes in October this year).

And meanwhile all hell is breaking loose in Italy if this story is anything to go by.

LONGING to see Berlusconi's horrid little face at the G8 this week......



A man accused of setting up a parallel secret police force in Italy has spoken out from house arrest, saying the group was legal and its activity well-known.

The man has pledged to provide investigators with a full list of his employees, which he said numbered 150, Italian media reports say.

But the Genoa chief prosecutor says official police forces were unaware of the work carried out by the agency.

The structure was set up after the 2004 Madrid bombings to fight terrorism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4646673.stm

[dbeach]

29. da kiss of death..gives away the elites plot..

oldie but goodie

http://www.konformist.com/1999/nwo.htm

""Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order . Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond , whether real or *promulgated* , that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."
Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991 "

[staticstopper]

21. Kick

i know...but it's worth a try.

[Octafish]

31. Thanks, staticstopper!

So. Didja hear these turds are always talking about terror coming later?

THE PROVOCATEUR STATE

Is the CIA Behind the Iraqi "Insurgents"--and Global Terrorism?

by Frank Morales

The requirement of an ever-escalating level of social violence to meet the political and economic needs of the insatiable "anti-terrorist complex" is the essence of the new US militarism. What is now openly billed as "permanent war" ultimately serves the geo-political ends of social control in the interests of US corporate domination, much as the anti-communist crusade of the now-exhasuted Cold War did.

Back in 2002, following the trauma of 9-11, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld predicted there would be more terrorist attacks against the American people and civilization at large. How could he be so sure of that? Perhaps because these attacks would be instigated on the order of the Honorable Mr. Rumsfeld. According to Los Angeles Times military analyst William Arkin, writing Oct. 27, 2002, Rumsfeld set out to create a secret army, "a super-Intelligence Support Activity" network that would "bring together CIA and military covert action, information warfare, intelligence, and cover and deception," to stir the pot of spiraling global violence.

According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization--the "Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)"--would actually carry out secret missions designed to provoke terrorist groups into committing violent acts. The P2OG, a 100-member, so-called "counter-terrorist" organization with a $100-million-a-year budget, would ostensibly target "terrorist leaders," but according to P2OG documents procured by Arkin, would in fact carry out missions designed to "stimulate reactions" among "terrorist groups"--which, according to the Defense Secretary's logic, would subsequently expose them to "counter-attack" by the good guys. In other words, the plan is to execute secret military operations (assassinations, sabotage, "deception") which would intentionally result in terrorist attacks on innocent people, including Americans--essentially, to "combat terrorism" by causing it!

This notion is currently being applied to the problem of the Iraqi "insurgency," it seems. According to a May 1, 2005 report by Peter Maass in the New York Times Magazine, two of the top US advisers to Iraqi paramilitary commandos fighting the insurgents are veterans of US counterinsurgency operations in Latin America. Loaning credence to recent media speculation about the "Salvadorization" of Iraq, the report notes that one adviser currently in Iraq is James Steele, who led a team of 55 US Army Special Forces advisers in El Salvador in the 1980s. Maass writes that these advisors "trained front-line battalions that were accused of significant human rights abuses."

The current senior US adviser at the Iraqi Interior Ministry, which Maass writes "has operational control over the commandos," is former top US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) official Steve Casteel, who worked "alongside local forces" in the US-sponsored "Drug War" in Bolivia, Peru and Colombia, "where he was involved in the hunt for Pablo Escobar, the head of the Medellin cocaine cartel."

CONTINUED...

http://www.ww4report.com/node/457

Most important: A hearty welcome to DU, staticstopper!

[LibertyorDeath]

23. I posted about P-2 yesterday Zero response

People have a very hard time believing or accepting that their own
Intelligence agencies would blow them to bits to further their own agendas.

Not only have they done it but on multiple occasions in multiple Countries.

It's like bashing your head of a wall trying to get people to even be open minded about it.

London has bombed itself before

Exclusive: confessions of a secret agent turned terrorist
By Neil Mackay

KEVIN Fulton is very clear about where the orders were coming from. 'I was told that this was sanctioned right at the top,' he says, sipping a Pepsi in the bar of a Glasgow hotel. 'I was told 'there'll be no medals for this, and no recognition, but this goes the whole way to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister knows what you are doing.'

This was 1980, and if Margaret Thatcher knew about the activities of military intelligence agents such as Fulton, then she was also aware her own military officers were planning to infiltrate British soldiers as 'moles' into the IRA. These moles were ordered by their handlers to carry out terrorist crimes

More

http://www.sundayherald.com/25646

Thanks Octafish for another excellent post & for keeping an open mind.

[teryang]

24. Great link!

Rumsfeld made direct statements about a PPSOG unit to be established in the Pentagon to fight "terrorism." One couldn't help but thinking of the P2 Lodge operation in Italy back in the good old days.

The Bologna train station bombing seemed like a textbook example.

[LibertyorDeath]

25. There's more

Top republican terrorist exposed in court documents as a special forces soldier
By Neil Mackay, Home Affairs Editor

HE was one of the most feared men inside the Provisional IRA. To rank-and-file volunteers, a knock on the door from John Joe Magee was the equivalent of a visit from the Angel of Death.

However, court documents leaked to the Sunday Herald show that Magee, head of the IRA's infamous Òinternal security unit,was trained as a member of Britain's special forces. The IRA's torturer-in-chief was in reality one of the UK's most elite soldiers.

http://www.sundayherald.com/29997

[Jose Diablo]

34. The deal in London has the same sniff

as the Bologna bombing. Thats what I thought as soon as I saw the news on London.

I don't know, maybe I've been around so long that everytime something happens, it reminds me of stuff in the past. The problem is I think, the stuff in the past never gets resolved and those behind it never face justice. So I keep relating the past to present.

Who knows, right now I am wondering if the same people keep doing this stuff over and over.

Or maybe I AM nuts, could be that too I guess.

[Octafish]

33. James Jesus Angleton said CIA was responsible for the deaths of thousands.

Angleton was talking about the people used as fodder, armies the CIA betrayed, the people killed in overthrown democracies, and the innocents who just happened to be in the way. Here's what else Angleton told Trento:

Fundamentally, the founding fathers of U.S. intelligence were liars. The better you lied and the more you betrayed, the more likely you would be promoted. These people attracted and promoted each other. Outside of their duplicity, the only thing they had in common was a desire for absolute power. I did things that, in looking back on my life, I regret. But I was part of it and loved being in it. . . Allen Dulles, Richard Helms, Carmel Offie, and Frank Wisner were the grand masters. If you were in a room with them you were in a room full of people that you had to believe would deservedly end up in hell. I guess I will see them there soon.

- James Angleton from Joseph Trento's, Secret History of the CIA.

SOURCE:

http://www.linkworthy.com/log8.html

Thanks for the kind words, LibertyorDeath! Much obliged and the same holds for you and your work.

Love the lifelike portrait of the crazy monkey, LibertyorDeath. That is as clear and accurate a picture of Dear Leader as ever been made.

[Lithos]

41. Locking

What really happened is not considered a valid source for citation on DU. Please reference a more direct and valid source.