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It's a crackpot book, full of easily debunked nonsense. "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner is a much

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 05:30 PM
Original message
It's a crackpot book, full of easily debunked nonsense. "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner is a much
better take on the Kennedy assassination - and has the added value of dealing in actual facts, as opposed to fairy tales about armed Leprechauns hiding out on grassy knolls.
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Posner's book, Case Closed, is rife with contradictions, sloppy research, and distortions
http://www.ctka.net/pr396-davy.html
When the New York Times published Gerald Posner's article entitled, "GARRISON GUILTY: Another Case Closed" (New York Times Magazine, August 6, 1995), they managed to convict a second person without benefit of a trial-the first being Lee Harvey Oswald, whose guilt the Times has trumpeted over the years by virtue of its unwavering support of the Warren Report. The Times certainly picked the right person for the job of ferreting out contradictions in the late Jim Garrison's files. Posner's book, Case Closed, is rife with contradictions, sloppy research, and distortions. What is surprising is that the Times found all of this newsworthy. The contradictions found in the files of the Warren Commission and the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) would fill volumes. Where were the Times and Posner when the HSCA released their files in 1993? Had they been at the National Archives they would have found suppressed evidence supporting the Garrison case. Was Posner too busy at the time to examine these files? Apparently he now has more time on his hands to allow him to first attend the Assassination Records and Review Board hearings in New Orleans and then to examine Garrison's files.
The $64,000 Question

Why was Posner allowed access to these files? New Orleans District Attorney, Harry Connick, is on record as stating only representatives of the government would be allowed to review these records. Does Posner qualify under this criteria? According to his article, Posner was personally invited by Connick to review the files. .

It is difficult to comment on the specific allegations that Posner raises without benefit of actually seeing the files. However, it is possible to rebut some of the most egregious distortions. First it might be instructive to look at what Posner claims he examined...

"Case Closed" author Gerald Posner, inadvertently confirms his CIA ties...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=490878&mesg_id=492367

VIDEO - Posner Lays An Egg

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10528

That was a good one, apocalypsehow.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Remember to use this :sarcasm: next time.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Name one....n/t
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Posner's false claim that Ferrie never knew Oswald...
As mentioned in the post above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M9ff6FK-CM">
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KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Gerald Posner is tied to the CIA?
Edited on Sat Jan-30-10 10:14 PM by KDLarsen
.. because he got a phone-number?

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You've obviously forgotten what passes for "evidence" in...
CTland. CT's aren't exactly known for rigorous standards of proof.
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-06-10 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
6.  Gerald Posner admits he's guilty of plagiarism - inadvertent plagiarism, that is
Here's the latest news on the ubiquitous Mr. Posner:

http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com/2010/02/gerald-posner-admits-hes-guilty-of.html
Veteran journalist Gerald Posner acknowledged today that he copied five sentences from a Miami Herald article this week for a piece he wrote for the Daily Beast. The Daily Beast appended an editor's note to the beginning of Posner's piece today, explaining that the copying was "inadvertent" and that the Daily Beast has deleted the copied passages...

Then he makes this odd mea culpa - yes, I'm guilty - I just don't remember doing it. That's kind of like the thief saying yes, I admit your pearls are in my pocket, I just don't remember putting them there...

What's really shocking is that this is a story that Posner had already written about, to a degree:

Posner is no stranger to the story he plagiarized, having covered elements of it for his 2009 book Miami Babylon: Crime Wealth and Power—A Dispatch From the Beach. He has continued to gather material on it for the book's upcoming paperback edition. Citing primary documents in his possession and his own original reporting, he said that he didn't have to plagiarize the Herald to write his Beast story.


So why did he copy someone else's words at all? Curioser and curioser.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Of course, that tidbit of info is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand. But CT'ers,
consistently stymied on the facts, crave any such opening to talk about anything other than...their lack of facts.

What, pray tell, does this story of Posner's six-sentence plagiarism on a blog post regarding a crime in Florida have to do with "Case Closed," a book about which there is not a single allegation of plagiarism?

Nothing, of course: it's a McCarthyite-style tactic, and one which CT'ers have honed to perfection far beyond the wildest imagination of the late Tailgunner from Wisconsin when confronting their intellectual betters, i.e., their critics and any person with the critical thinking skills above that of a four year old child. Such honest, mature minds see it for what it is - and laugh. As I am now.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Very well said n/t
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MinM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-07-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Au Contraire my little lone-nutters...
Posner's credibility is very much the issue. Although you have to hand it to Posner, as with Karzai's brother, he has always had incredible access...

How Gerald Posner Got Rich and Famous
...Robert Loomis sponsored Case Closed for Random House. He apparently knew Posner through an earlier effort of his entitled Hitler's Children. As one can clearly discern through reading the footnotes, Posner's Kennedy assassination book was a rush job that was done in the wake of the furor surrounding Oliver Stone's 1991 movie JFK. Posner told Jim Marrs after a debate in Dallas that Loomis approached him about the book at that time and told him he would have the cooperation of the CIA on the project. This explains how Posner got access to KGB turncoat Yuri Nosenko, who was put on a CIA retainer in the late seventies. The book was timed for release on the 30th anniversary of JFK's death which explains why it was such a clear hurry-up job. (See attached articles for a chronicle of only some of the many, many errors is this hapless book.) Loomis also commissioned Norman Mailer's concoction of a book Oswald's Tale, done with longtime FBI informant on the Kennedy case Lawrence Schiller. Mailer tried to make the case that the book was warranted by his access to some of the Russian files on Oswald that he had access to from the newly formed government of Belarus. Yet, according to John Tunheim of the ARRB, there is an approximately five foot high stack of documents that no one has seen on Oswald. Not even the ARRB. Mailer got nowhere near the majority of these files. Predictably, Mailer's book presented the probability of the case against Oswald as the lone assassin.

Further on into the nineties, Posner came out with another book on an infamous assassination of the sixties. This one was on the Martin Luther King case. It was called Killing the Dream and also made the same single-minded case against James Earl Ray as Posner did against Lee Harvey Oswald. He told one interviewer: "There is no question. Ray was the shooter. That's how I see the evidence, how anybody objective has to see the evidence." To put it mildly, this is a rather gross overstatement as can be seen by reading any credible book on the King murder, like say Harold Weisberg's Frame-Up or Ray's own Who Killed Martin Luther King? Let us not forget that in the only two real trials of this case, the jury decided for conspiracy; namely the HBO mock trial in 1993, and the civil trial held in Memphis by the King family vs. Loyd Jowers in 1999...

If one calls Loomis' office one will learn from his secretary that he spends a lot of time in Washington D.C., even though Random House's main offices are in New York. This probably began because his former wife Gloria had once worked for the CIA. She was the personal secretary to none other than James Angleton, the legendary counter-intelligence chief of the Agency for 20 years. He is also the man who many writers and researchers, like John Newman and Lisa Pease, believe was handling the Oswald file in the CIA. This undisclosed fact would then explain how Posner got the CIA clearances to talk to people no one has access to. It also helps explain why Loomis does what he does. But wouldn't it have been more honest to the reader of Posner's book if he would have explained that it had been commissioned by someone whose former wife had worked for the man who was probably running Oswald as an intelligence agent?

Did Posner make a Faustian deal with Loomis? A quid pro quo in political parlance? Consider the similarities between these two quotes dug up by attorney and longtime Kennedy researcher Roger Feinman: "All the conspiracy theories have undermined the public's belief in the government, and that, to me, is a crime." (Bob Loomis, Publisher's Weekly, 5/3/93) "But I also think that the conspiracy theorists have made us lose faith in government." (Gerald Posner, Dallas Morning News, 11/21/93).

Gerald Posner, the CIA, the Karzais, and a warning to Keith Olbermann
...Has Posner always been this chummy with the Agency?

Um, yeah. Where have you been?

One of his earliest books was a novel called "The Bio-Assassins" and featured a Cold War CIA oldie fighting a bureacratic newbie in the changing CIA. Guess who wins? I don't really have to answer that, do I? The old fart, the one willing to break any law to do what needs to be done, in his view.

Another of his early books was about Mengele. He received wide praise for this, but some not so widely distributed criticism. Essentially, the book is an apologia that attempts to explain why the poor ol' CIA just couldn't find Mengele to bring him to justice. It reads like the cover story it probably is. If the CIA really wanted to find him, they could. They found Che Guevara in the Bolivian jungle, for Chrissakes. They cold have found Mengele, if they had the will. They could have found Bin Laden, long ago, too, if they had the will...

POSNER in New Orleans
Posner's efforts to keep Oswald away from 544 Camp Street have a touch of the ludicrous about them. He tries to discredit the reliability of every witness that places Oswald there: Delphine Roberts and her daughter, David Lewis, Jack Martin, Oswald himself and the HSCA. He portrays Roberts as off her rocker and says she now states she lied to Tony Summers in the late 70's about Oswald being in Banister's office. She says today that Summers gave her some money to appear on camera for a TV special and this is why she said what she did. Posner ignores the following: 1.) Roberts told her story to Summers before he even mentioned anything about a payment 2.) On her own and without any promise of money, Roberts told essentially the same story to Earl Golz of the Dallas Morning News in a story that ran in December of 1978 3.) Her story about seeing a "communist" outside the office leafletting the area, telling Banister, and him laughing and saying that he was one of them is partly corroborated by an interview with a third party in Banister's office at the time. Again this is in the Garrison files that Posner says he had access to.

In his desperation to discredit anyone associated with either the Garrison or HSCA investigation of the New Orleans part of the conspiracy, Posner occasionaly winds up swinging at air. On page 138, he writes that Gaeton Fonzi was the HSCA investigator on the issues of Banister, 544 Camp Street, and David Ferrie. He smears Fonzi and the validity of these reports by saying "he was a committed believer in a conspiracy." Fonzi's name does appear on the reports in Volume X of the House Select Committee appendices. But in those reports related to the New Orleans part of the investigation his name appears along with the names of Pat Orr and Liz Palmer. If Posner would have talked to any of these people before smearing Fonzi, he would have found out that Fonzi only edited the New Orleans reports. Orr and Palmer did the actual field investigations and original writing in these sections, something that Fonzi has no problem telling anyone. I know of no books, articles or interviews by Orr or Palmer which would show them to be a "committed believer in a conspiracy." In fact, both have reputations for reserved judgment and objectivity.

Posner's depiction of the Clinton episode in the late summer of 1963 and which connects Shaw, Ferrie and Oswald epitomizes his stilted, fundamentally dishonest approach. He obtained some of the original memorandums made by the Garrison probe into the incident and attempts to show that since the eyewitness testimony does not jibe, then the witnesses are lying and therefore Garrison coached them into telling a coherent story at the trial. First, let us note that it is Posner in his section on Dealey Plaza writes that eyewitness testimony to the same event often differs (funny how his standards constantly shift). Second, I would like to know if Mr. Posner asked Shaw's attorneys - lrvin Dymond and Bill Wegmann - how they got these memos. But more to the point, Posner either doesn't know or doesn't think it important to inform the reader that the incident under discussion took place in two different towns. Oswald was first seen in Jackson, about 15 miles east of Clinton. Two of the witnesses who testified at the Shaw trial saw Oswald, or a double, in Jackson and in a different car than the one that appeared in Clinton later. Henry Palmer, one of the witnesses who talked to Oswald in Clinton - and it was Oswald there - interviewed him away from the voter ralIy - and did not get a good look at the car which contained Shaw and Ferrie. Oswald's last appearance in the area was at the hospital back in Jackson where two personnel secretaries took his application for a job.

What Posner does with all this is worthy of a cardsharp. By implying that all the elements - the car, the passengers, the rally, the witnesses - are in one place at one time, he tries to cast doubt on the witnesses and aspersions on Garrison's use of them. It would be the equivalent of having a couple drive a different car into a service station, having a different car leave and go to another station, and then the original car returns with only the husband driving. Would we expect the two sets of witnesses to see the same thing? On the contrary, if they did we would have doubts about them. If this tactic would have seemed effective, wouldn't Dymond and Wegmann have used it at the trial? Posner lists the transcript of the Shaw trial in his bibliography. If he really read it he would say that Dymond's cross-examination of these people was quite gentle, he barely touched them. And when he tried to get tough, it backfired...
http://www.assassinationweb.com/issue1.htm


http://www.ctka.net/pr798-posner.html

incredible access indeed.

Amy Goodman: Access of Evil
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060703/goodman
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-17-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. When confronted with data contrary to their own beliefs
they attempt to discredit the messenger.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-12-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Ferrie and Oswald, long history together --
All the way to Dr. Mary Sherman --



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