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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:11 AM Original message |
Using geometry to analyze angles of descent of falling debris from WT1 & WT2 |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:36 AM Response to Original message |
1. "it seems that the math would be relatively straightforward" |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:40 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. But I mean the for the areas ABOVE where there would have been such a collision. |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:49 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. "Apply a downward force shattering the glass" |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:03 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. "it would be more straightforward than you imply" |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:24 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. "So why don't you go ahead and do whatever it is you have in mind, instead of talking about it." |
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Realityhack
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:27 AM Response to Reply #9 |
12. "...I find it odd that you would choose to shoot down an approach..." |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:51 AM Response to Reply #12 |
16. As I said, BEFORE the collison, BEFORE. So there would be no bounce effect at top. |
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Realityhack
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. You may be asking a decent question... but you are refusing flatly to listen to the answer. |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:12 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. Simplifying for calculation is a regrettable concession that has to be made in any study. |
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Realityhack
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:39 PM Response to Reply #21 |
28. "-Fine. Accepted. Does this mean it can't be done?" |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:54 PM Response to Reply #28 |
31. Always driven to the point where any discussion that could open new doors is even conceivable. |
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OnTheOtherHand
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Tue Sep-01-09 04:53 PM Response to Reply #31 |
40. what is incurious about Realityhack's response? |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:03 AM Response to Reply #40 |
63. "How could Rh revise it to make it more curious?" |
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jberryhill
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:26 AM Response to Reply #63 |
73. A Better Observation, RH |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:29 AM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Please see my post below. But that's a really silly argument... |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:25 AM Response to Reply #73 |
87. Again, ad hominem |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:31 AM Response to Reply #87 |
88. You do not appear to understand the term 'ad hominem'. n/t |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:33 AM Response to Reply #88 |
91. OK. Withdrawn. Ad Bonobo. nt |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:35 AM Response to Reply #88 |
92. Weak gruel of a response. |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:23 AM Response to Reply #63 |
86. "But it appears bonobo just refuses to accept that answer." |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:21 AM Response to Reply #40 |
85. No, I think consideration is being rejected out of hand for no reason. |
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OnTheOtherHand
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Wed Sep-02-09 06:40 PM Response to Reply #85 |
140. I stated my position in the post you just replied to |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 05:43 PM Response to Reply #31 |
43. I'm Curious About How Cells Divide |
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LARED
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:17 PM Response to Reply #43 |
55. Well stated post. Your patience is noteworthy. nt |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:32 AM Response to Reply #55 |
90. Misplaced more like. nt |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #90 |
106. You do realize you just put yourself down right? n/t |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:42 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. "He he. Ranked yerself out!" We used to say that. In Junior High. nt |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:32 AM Response to Reply #43 |
89. Half of that is a false analogy and the rest proceeds from a strawman. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #89 |
116. The contradiction... |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:25 PM Response to Reply #116 |
118. Sounds like you now agree that it is an avenue that is open to investigation. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #118 |
126. I have never thought otherwise |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:59 PM Response to Reply #126 |
128. I have not seen the type of analysis I am describing and if you have, links would be appreciated. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:37 PM Response to Reply #128 |
135. See #133 |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:18 AM Response to Reply #28 |
84. RH, so it is too complex AND it cannot be simplified in any way for any analysis? WOW! |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:36 AM Response to Reply #84 |
94. No. You are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion is wrong. |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:21 PM Response to Reply #94 |
101. So what is the 'opinion' that is wrong? |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:27 PM Response to Reply #101 |
119. wrong place. self delete. |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:30 PM Response to Reply #94 |
120. Now that we have arrived at that, I guess your work is done. |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:15 AM Response to Reply #12 |
83. Here RH starts with "It is too complex for you to understand, so you can't discuss." |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:04 PM Response to Reply #83 |
97. Reading comprehension.... your doing it wrong. n/t |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:22 PM Response to Reply #97 |
102. Spelling ability --"your" doing it wrong. n/t |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:15 PM Response to Reply #102 |
105. Absolutely and let me be the first to admit it. |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:14 AM Response to Reply #6 |
82. It is from this point, in my view that you began to say "Do it yourself or it isn't true." |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:05 PM Response to Reply #82 |
98. That is not what was said. You are seeing what you want to see. n/t |
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hack89
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:46 AM Response to Original message |
3. But we know that the top of the towers were tilting |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:50 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. Yes, that is true. But a tipping object... |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:09 AM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Sure... if it was some sort of ideal solid object |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:18 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. "The top twenty or thirty floors of the towers are not a pair of dice that are going to roll" |
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lovepg
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:08 AM Response to Reply #8 |
10. By now you should clearly see how this dance works... |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:16 AM Response to Reply #10 |
11. It is becoming painfully obvious. |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:45 PM Response to Reply #10 |
30. +1 |
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wildbilln864
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:20 PM Response to Reply #10 |
56. spot on man. thanks. nt |
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Twist_U_Up
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Wed Sep-02-09 05:00 PM Response to Reply #10 |
138. thank you. very well put. spot on |
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Realityhack
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:29 AM Response to Reply #8 |
13. The fact that you posted those two videos as a response to what Hack wrote... |
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lovepg
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #13 |
14. And you do because?????????? |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #13 |
15. As I said, we have veered off this topic of the OP. |
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Realityhack
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:09 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. "I won the (sub) point (and red herring) by any reasonable standard" ROTFLMFAO. n/t |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:12 PM Response to Reply #20 |
22. HELLO? I don't care. Stop deflecting the point of the OP. |
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hack89
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:08 PM Response to Reply #8 |
18. Those are concrete buildings |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:13 PM Response to Reply #18 |
23. Deflect! Pwwww! nt |
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hack89
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Tue Sep-01-09 02:17 PM Response to Reply #23 |
32. I guess you can't answer the question? nt |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 02:41 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. Not at all, my position is that it has nothing to do with the OP. |
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hack89
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Tue Sep-01-09 03:24 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. Then why did you post those videos? |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 03:30 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. I said that a tipping object would fall in a predictable arc. |
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hack89
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Tue Sep-01-09 04:57 PM Response to Reply #37 |
41. Again you miss the point |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:24 AM Response to Reply #37 |
68. " So I playfully posted videos that show that they are rather sturdier than one might expect." |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:41 AM Response to Reply #68 |
70. That is precisely one of the things that SOME people find odd. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #70 |
112. Well, it's not that odd to a lot of other people |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:04 PM Response to Reply #112 |
114. Again, this is not the point, but actually a sub-thread. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:33 PM Response to Reply #114 |
121. As I've said, it's possible but it's not simple |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:39 PM Response to Reply #121 |
122. Is the reverse possible? |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:04 PM Response to Reply #122 |
130. Try asking your question again |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #130 |
131. I think you have answered well enough, thank you. n/t |
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tenseconds
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Thu Sep-03-09 08:58 AM Response to Reply #112 |
146. but... |
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Bonobo
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:09 PM Response to Reply #146 |
148. Especially not if it is shooting debris outwards at the same time! nt |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:09 PM Response to Reply #8 |
19. Those are reinforced concrete structures |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:13 PM Response to Reply #19 |
24. Deflect! Pwwww! nt |
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lovepg
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:20 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. It sounds as if they are geometrically opposed to discussing the subject. nt |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Odd thing on a discussion board. Especially one devoted to discussing THIS subject. |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 08:26 PM Response to Reply #26 |
48. And your answer to his question is what? |
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Bonobo
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:19 PM Response to Reply #19 |
25. What I fail to understand is why you keep saying that. |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 05:58 PM Response to Reply #25 |
45. See my essay above about "simple questions" |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #8 |
34. Deflect! Pwwww! |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 12:41 PM Response to Original message |
29. Since steel buildings are not in the habit of collapsing .. |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 03:04 PM Response to Reply #29 |
35. Um... |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 03:45 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. oops |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 03:50 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. You can't fool me. You're part of the global Swine Flu illuminati! |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 05:01 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. I don't see any rebar. |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 05:46 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Oh dear oh dear |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 07:18 PM Response to Reply #44 |
46. Hell no. |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 07:29 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. So, although I've provided you with evidence that the building is in fact made out of concrete... |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:20 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. Exactly who the hell |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:00 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Oh, poutrage |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:10 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. If that's the the mental process |
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anigbrowl
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Tue Sep-01-09 10:28 PM Response to Reply #54 |
57. Well, let's see |
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lovepg
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:51 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. So what that the report mentions concrete???? |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:08 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. When it's the main descriptive adjective |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:13 AM Response to Reply #58 |
65. I finally followed the link. |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:22 AM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Form the link YOU posted "...An old flour factory... " n/t |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:08 AM Response to Reply #67 |
71. We've got to go with |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #71 |
95. Nope but nice try. |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:07 PM Response to Reply #95 |
99. Well first... |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:59 PM Response to Reply #99 |
103. I was wondering how long it would take for you to ask that question |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. Why would we be interested |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:22 PM Response to Reply #104 |
108. "You haven't provided any evidence here regarding concrete falling differently than steel." |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #108 |
111. All I posted |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:13 PM Response to Reply #108 |
115. They are called verbs in Japanese. You put endings on them to change the meaning. |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:43 PM Response to Reply #115 |
123. Like Spanish .. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:49 PM Response to Reply #104 |
110. I find it hard to believe you are serious |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #110 |
117. It is not EXACTLY what I asked but close. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:46 PM Response to Reply #117 |
124. Now you're being rather dishonest |
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vincent_vega_lives
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:15 PM Response to Reply #117 |
149. Tell me the mass of each peice of debris |
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Bonobo
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:21 PM Response to Reply #149 |
150. I can do that. |
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vincent_vega_lives
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Fri Sep-04-09 08:13 AM Response to Reply #150 |
165. And.....? |
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Bonobo
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Fri Sep-04-09 09:24 AM Response to Reply #165 |
166. I actually have an interesting thing I have been reading... |
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vincent_vega_lives
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Fri Sep-04-09 09:32 AM Response to Reply #166 |
167. Yes it can certainly be calculated |
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Bonobo
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Fri Sep-04-09 09:39 AM Response to Reply #167 |
168. With that information... |
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vincent_vega_lives
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Fri Sep-04-09 11:58 AM Response to Reply #168 |
170. Theoretical? |
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Realityhack
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Fri Sep-04-09 12:15 PM Response to Reply #170 |
171. Not to mention the missing information... |
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OnTheOtherHand
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Wed Sep-02-09 05:28 AM Response to Reply #54 |
62. you accused him of misrepresenting what you posted |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:10 AM Response to Reply #62 |
64. *snarf* |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:21 AM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Actually from the English article and the second paragraph it appears it was a flour mill... |
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vincent_vega_lives
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Tue Sep-01-09 08:34 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. yes they were regarding the structure |
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lovepg
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Tue Sep-01-09 11:55 PM Response to Reply #49 |
59. UMMMM so all the desks ,office,furniture, people , file cabinets, mini fridges,... |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:18 AM Response to Reply #59 |
61. 'load bearing' is an engineering term |
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vincent_vega_lives
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Wed Sep-02-09 09:31 AM Response to Reply #59 |
69. sure |
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lovepg
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:36 AM Response to Reply #69 |
93. No but all the floors were concrete and they are a big part of the structure.... |
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Realityhack
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:49 AM Response to Reply #93 |
96. This is why lay people have difficulty discussing things with engineers. |
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lovepg
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Wed Sep-02-09 01:21 PM Response to Reply #96 |
107. Wouldn't even structural concrete be steel reinforced??? nt |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #107 |
113. HELL YES! |
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lovepg
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:46 PM Response to Reply #113 |
125. So then you are saying the Concrete building is essentialy a steel building... |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 02:58 PM Response to Reply #125 |
127. I'm not an official people. |
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lovepg
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:02 PM Response to Reply #127 |
129. Excuse me no offense meant. But they are both steel framed buildings no? |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #129 |
132. Yes. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:19 PM Response to Reply #132 |
134. Hmmm....are you sure about that? |
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Why Syzygy
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Wed Sep-02-09 04:08 PM Response to Reply #134 |
136. I'm going to save |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 04:28 PM Response to Reply #136 |
137. Who would have thought that simple factual questions could be so stresful. |
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SDuderstadt
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Wed Sep-02-09 12:20 PM Response to Reply #38 |
100. That isn't a steel-framed building. n/t |
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jberryhill
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Tue Sep-01-09 08:44 PM Response to Reply #35 |
50. Apparently, he believes the H1N1 vaccination program is a "demolition" of some kind... |
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Why Syzygy
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Tue Sep-01-09 09:18 PM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Sleuth you are not. |
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jberryhill
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:18 AM Response to Original message |
72. A Serious Question For You... |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:26 AM Response to Reply #72 |
74. It may be serious, but... |
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jberryhill
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:33 AM Response to Reply #74 |
76. Funny you should ask.... |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:34 AM Response to Reply #76 |
77. You missed the point. |
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jberryhill
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:38 AM Response to Reply #77 |
78. Ah..... and now you understand the function of peer review |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:51 AM Response to Reply #78 |
80. I always did, don't be silly. Why have YOU been arguing as if such a thing does not exist? |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:04 AM Response to Reply #78 |
81. If you were prepared to admit this, why post #76? |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 10:50 AM Response to Reply #76 |
79. I have not rejected anything but that is immaterial here. Don't change the subject. |
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anigbrowl
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Wed Sep-02-09 03:15 PM Response to Original message |
133. Alternatively, (simulations) |
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Bonobo
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Wed Sep-02-09 05:40 PM Response to Reply #133 |
139. Thank you (re Y axis). I just became aware of this myself. |
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lovepg
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Wed Sep-02-09 11:38 PM Response to Reply #133 |
141. where is the south tower simulation where half the plane goes out the side but .. |
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Make7
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Thu Sep-03-09 01:24 AM Response to Reply #141 |
142. I doubt if modeling something that appears to have only occurred in your imagination... |
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lovepg
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Thu Sep-03-09 01:25 AM Response to Reply #142 |
143. Its NISTs imagination read the report. Oh no I am sounding like an official story person..Nt |
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Make7
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Thu Sep-03-09 01:51 AM Response to Reply #143 |
144. Then you should have no problem producing a direct quote stating "half the plane goes out the side." |
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lovepg
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Thu Sep-03-09 10:35 AM Response to Reply #144 |
147. Oh good grief if you do not believe me look at the damn video. Its obvious.. |
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anigbrowl
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Thu Sep-03-09 12:35 PM Response to Reply #147 |
151. Ahem... |
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lovepg
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Thu Sep-03-09 01:02 PM Response to Reply #151 |
152. Ohhh And post 142 was not snarky??? |
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anigbrowl
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Thu Sep-03-09 04:12 PM Response to Reply #152 |
153. It's up to you whether you want to have a discussion or trade punches. |
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lovepg
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Thu Sep-03-09 10:47 PM Response to Reply #153 |
158. Lecturing instead of discussing especially when you started it is just another way |
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Why Syzygy
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Thu Sep-03-09 07:59 PM Response to Reply #147 |
154. The NIST report |
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AZCat
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Thu Sep-03-09 08:29 PM Response to Reply #154 |
155. It doesn't? |
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Why Syzygy
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Thu Sep-03-09 10:43 PM Response to Reply #155 |
157. If you post a link |
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AZCat
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Thu Sep-03-09 11:49 PM Response to Reply #157 |
161. Sure thing. |
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SDuderstadt
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Thu Sep-03-09 10:05 PM Response to Reply #154 |
156. There's no other way to say this, but... |
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lovepg
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Thu Sep-03-09 10:49 PM Response to Reply #154 |
159. But But But How can they say exactly how many core columns were taken out then? |
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Why Syzygy
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Thu Sep-03-09 11:46 PM Response to Reply #159 |
160. Not important .... |
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lovepg
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Fri Sep-04-09 12:12 AM Response to Reply #160 |
162. Well my point was kinda that the computer models used were how many columns.. |
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Why Syzygy
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Fri Sep-04-09 12:34 AM Response to Reply #162 |
163. So is |
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lovepg
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Fri Sep-04-09 11:27 AM Response to Reply #163 |
169. Exactly! Nt |
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Make7
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Fri Sep-04-09 03:42 AM Response to Reply #147 |
164. It is precisely because I have watched the videos that I don't believe you. |
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lovepg
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Sat Sep-05-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #164 |
172. What are you a no planer??? You can see the plane exploding out the side. |
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Make7
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Sat Sep-05-09 04:42 PM Response to Reply #172 |
173. Do you believe the plane was made of jet fuel? |
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lovepg
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Sat Sep-05-09 05:19 PM Response to Reply #173 |
174. The right Engine from that plane was found on top of a police car blocks away. |
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Make7
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Sat Sep-05-09 07:25 PM Response to Reply #174 |
175. So then you believe the plane was just two engines and nothing else? |
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lovepg
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Sat Sep-05-09 10:26 PM Response to Reply #175 |
176. Show how NIST proves this assertion. Can you prove... |
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OnTheOtherHand
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Sun Sep-06-09 06:31 AM Response to Reply #176 |
177. you simply moved the goalposts |
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Make7
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Sun Sep-06-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #176 |
178. The only one in this conversation demanding anything is you. |
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anigbrowl
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Thu Sep-03-09 02:12 AM Response to Reply #141 |
145. I dunno, write and ask them |
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