Settler gang pushes Palestinian boy off roof

[ProgressiveMuslim]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article4467099.ece

Hamza Abu Khetar, 14, survived the 60ft drop because a lower roof broke his fall

James Hider in Hebron
When a group of Jewish settlers came down the street towards them in the old city centre of Hebron, Hamza Abu Khetar’s friends fled from the house that they were renovating. Hamza, a slim, 14-year-old Palestinian boy, was working on the roof of the empty, four-storey building and did not see the threat. It was a Saturday afternoon, the end of Sabbath, a time when, according to Palestinians and Israeli human rights workers, the hardline settlers of Hebron often go on the rampage.

“By the time I saw them they were already on me,” he told The Times. “They started kicking and beating me. I couldn’t protect myself, there were about 25 of them.”

Beatings of Palestinians by radical religious settlers, protected by the Israeli army and police, are a common occurrence in this dangerous city, where Jewish settlements nudge into the heart of a community of about 120,000 Arabs. What happened next was shocking even by the violent standards of Hebron however.

“They pushed me over the edge of the roof,” Hamza said. “They meant to kill me.” A lower roof broke his fall, but Hamza broke the bones in one foot and twisted the other ankle. He was in great pain in his stomach, back and legs when his family found him. Despite his agony, Israeli soldiers kept the Palestinian ambulance waiting at a checkpoint for 90 minutes because the attack happened in an area where only Israeli vehicles are allowed to drive, his father, Sufian, said.

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“They consider us nothing more than mosquitoes, not human beings, as though we didn’t exist,” his father said.

Jews were driven out of the centre of Hebron after an Arab uprising in 1929. Recently however, hundreds of Jewish settlers have moved in. They are surrounded by more than 1,200 soldiers, who protect them but do little to curb violence against Palestinians, according to human rights groups. Near the city centre another large settlement, Kiryat Arba, cuts close to the heart of the city. Most Palestinian residents have fled the desolate centre.

According to the Israeli human rights group, B’Tselem, the settlers who attacked Hamza turned their attention to a Palestinian wedding party being held at a house opposite the Jewish settlement of Jabara, on a hilltop opposite Kiryat Arba. There they met dozens more settlers and started throwing stones at the guests, chanting: “Muhammad is a pig” and taunting two children disabled by birth defects, said Abdel-karim al-Jabari, the groom’s father.

When his daughter tried to video the mob with a camera provided by B’Tselem as part of a campaign to record settler violence in the West Bank, a group of women attacked her. Her brother intervened but he was held by two Israeli soldiers who allowed a settler to hit him in the face with a stone, the family said.


read on...

[Violet_Crumble]

1. That's disgusting...

I hope those who were involved in this attack are tracked down and punished. Better yet, every last one of those religious fanatics should be dragged back to Israel and banned from entering the West Bank...

I've noticed there's a tendency to link the religious fanatic community with the Jewish inhabitants of Hebron back in the 1920's, but there differences between them are stark. We all know about the violence, racism and fanaticism of the settlers, but the earlier community was peaceful and co-existed with their Arab neighbours. Which is what made the Hebron massacre so gut-wrenching to read about in detail because they trusted their neighbours and didn't think the violence happening elsewhere would happen in Hebron. They even refused an offer of protection from the Haganah because they thought they didn't need it. The fanatical settlers like to portray themselves as carrying the torch for the earlier community, but nothing could be further from the truth. Their actions and attitides make them more like the mob that turned on the earlier Jewish community in Hebron...

[pelsar]

2. nice to know that the hebron settlers...

dont want to be "outdone" by hamas.......they all look alike, act alike and given the chance the hebonite settlers would do exactly as any hamasnik....

[islandmkl]

3. from Lidice (google it) to Hebron...

the once-oppressed become the oppressors...

[ProgressiveMuslim]

4. Cycles of violence certainly continue, as counter-intuitive as that would seem. nt

[Violet_Crumble]

5. Israel's front-line thugs

Consistent stands against the depravity of the West Bank's lawless settlers are the only way to put an end to their crimes

Seth Freedman

News that leftwing activists are facing increased pressure to stay out of the West Bank is a worrying development in local politics, especially at a time when settler attacks on Palestinians are on the increase. Rather than clamp down on the settlers perpetrating the violence, the authorities are pursuing a path of locking the doors to the outside world and pretending that nothing at all is amiss.

Not all settlers are inherently violent; to portray their entire subgroup as such is as disingenuous as claiming that all Palestinians are fanatics just because there are radical elements in their midst. However, just because all settlers shouldn't be tarred with the same brush doesn't excuse the inaction and indifference on the part of the Israeli authorities when faced with the crimes of the extremists among the settler population.

Of late, there has been a steady stream of brutal assaults carried out by settlers against their Palestinian neighbours in the West Bank, right under the noses of the lackadaisical army. The phenomenon is, sadly, nothing new; what has brought the story back into the spotlight are the efforts of human rights groups, such as B'Tselem to film the violence and document the shocking reality on the ground – which is why, it seems, the authorities are so keen to clamp down on their activity in the region.

However, the settlers don't confine their vindictive and vicious attacks to Palestinians; they are not averse to attacking their Jewish peers either. Two recent incidents amply demonstrated the extent to which the Wild West Bank has become bandit country, with no sheriff's posse daring to stand up to the rogue elements holding the region at ransom.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/07/israelandthepalestinians.middleeast

[LeftishBrit]

6. What disgusting people

I wish all religious-right nutcases (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc.) would just get shoved on an island together, to fight each other, or hopefully learn to get on to survive; and leave everyone else in peace.

[shira]

7. Here, here!

nt

[Crunchy Frog]

8. Is it permissible under Jewish law to beat people up during the Sabbath?

I know you're not allowed to flip a light switch, but I don't know if throwing someone off a roof is okay or not.

[Phx_Dem]

9. Depends. nt

[shaayecanaan]

25. Presumably the Jewish areas in Hebron

are within an eruv, being an area within which it is permissible to possess and carry articles outside the home during the Sabbath.

Notwitstanding this, certain forbidden items such as pens or umbrellas cannot be carried on the sabbath; however, AFAIK Arabs are not part of any forbidden category. Accordingly, physically carrying an Arab with the intent to throw him off a rooftop should be permissible, I would think.

Alternatively, to be absolutely certain you could always pay another Arab to carry and throw the Arab off the roof for you.

These people are fairly strict with their religious observances so I am sure they have checked everything thoroughly beforehand.

[Phx_Dem]

27. Funny stuff man

thanks for the laughs.

[Scurrilous]

10. More from the Hebron crazies:

British consulate: Settlers attack U.K. diplomats on Hebron tour

<snip>

"A small group of settlers attacked a delegation of British diplomats during a visit to the West Bank city of Hebron on Thursday, the British Consulate said.

The consulate in Jerusalem said the diplomats were attacked while touring the area in an armored car. None were injured.

A Palestinian security official in the city said one of the settlers kicked the car after trying to open one of its doors."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009497.html

[LeftishBrit]

12. A bunch of thugs.

Maybe the fact that they are disgracing their country in front of foreign diplomats will lead to a serious crackdown on them and their lawless behaviour. I certainly hope so.

And for a peace agreement that leads to the end of such settlements.

[Sezu]

13. There are no end of thugs in that whole region. Thugs of

ALL kinds.

[aranthus]

11. Criminal thugs.

Attempted murder, assault, and several others.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

16. They are so maligned that Israel has a vast occupation regime solely for their protection. nt

[azurnoir]

21. So why then does that sane society

send its army to protect them?

[Phx_Dem]

22. Because of our religious traditions

In the Talmud (shevuot 39a) it says:

Kol Yisrael arevim zeh lazeh, which translates as All Jews are responsible for each other.

We don't throw jews off the bus just because we strongly disagree with their actions.

[azurnoir]

23. So the secular state of Israel

protects the settlers for religious reasons? nice of you to straighten that out for us

[Phx_Dem]

24. The Jewish State of Israel

is no different than Great Britain, Norway, India and Denmark in that they all have particular religious tradition that are incorporated (at times) into official state actions.

[azurnoir]

40. Yeah they put their military in to harms way

for religious reasons, but thank you for correcting all of those who claim Israel is a secular state as according to you it is not seeing as how it is willing to risk lives for religion, which BTW makes it little different from a certain "other" states.

[Violet_Crumble]

26. Israel is a secular state that doesn't run on *religious traditions*

And this has nothing to do with whether someone's Jewish or not. It's got to do with violent extremist settlers who in this case attempted to murder a boy. They wouldn't get away with that sort of violence if they were in Israel, and that's because Israel is a secular, not a religious state. Surely yr not trying to say that if I went to Israel and was attacked by someone who was Jewish, the IDF would turn up to protect the attacker, or just stand back and watch as they continued to attack me because my attacker was Jewish and I'm not??

[Phx_Dem]

30. I thought azurnoir was asking why in general does the IDF

provide security for extremist settlers like the Hebron Jews. My answer relates to that question.

Obviously in specific situations like the OP (which is a highly dubious story for many reasons) the Israeli police/IDF should enforce the law regardless of the people involved.

[Violet_Crumble]

33. The IDF is a state apparatus. It's not some private religiously-driven security force...

It's wrong that the IDF is put in a position where it provides protection for these extremists as they carry out attacks, not only on Palestinians, but on troops themselves as was reported in a recent article. The Israeli govt needs to pull its finger out and not only start providing protection for the Palestinian victims of these lunatics, but it needs to move each and every one last of them back to Israel and ban them from returning to the West Bank...

And why do you think the OP is highly dubious?

[Tarc]

15. There's little difference between Hezbollah and Israeli settlers

Both endorse violence and a fundamentalist reading of their respective religious texts in order to justify their depravity.

[Phx_Dem]

17. You know most settlers in the OTs

are not of the religious type. You might want to consider that next time you call all Israeli settlers "depraved".

[Sezu]

18. Why educate yourself about Israel when it's so easy

just to spout off what you THINK?

[Violet_Crumble]

28. Well, isn't that what you constantly do about the West Bank and Gaza? n/t

[Tarc]

19. Not religious? Are you lying or ignorant of reality?

Take your pick.

[Phx_Dem]

20. 30-40% of the settlers in the WB

are "economic" settlers that live in bedroom communities. Housing in Israel is very expensive, so much of the development around J-lem eg is there to provide affordable housing.

edit--I think the % is higher but I have not found a source yet.

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Settlers are divided into basically two groups...

One is the non-ideological ones who hae been encouraged by the govt with subsidies etc to live in the settlements. The other, which is what the OP was about, is the zany religious/nationalistist extremist settlers. Neither group should be there as the settlements are a clear violation of international law, but it's the latter group that most certainly earn the title depraved and every bit as bad as Islamic extremists....

I remember in another thread you were of the opinion that the Hebron settlers have every right to stay where they are. After reading this OP do you still hold that view?

[Phx_Dem]

31. Tarc made no differentiation Violet.

and yes I think Jews should be able to live in Hebron.

[Sezu]

32. Hell Jews should be able to live anywhere they want. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

35. In that case, why can't Muslims and Christians live anywhere they want? n/t

[Sezu]

37. As far as I know they can can't they? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

39. No, they can't. There wouldn't be Palestinian refugees otherwise n/t

[Sezu]

43. All Muslims and Christians are Palestinian refugees?

Who knew?

[Violet_Crumble]

34. I know, and it's the same as the lack of differentiation between Palestinians and extremists...

And that happens on an all too regular basis here...

I didn't ask you if you think Jews should be able to live in Hebron. I asked you if you still believe these extremist fanatics should be allowed to live in Hebron...

[Phx_Dem]

36. IMO the Jewish settlers in Hebron need to respect the rights

of all of their neighbors.

Additionally, the IDF needs to do a better job policing them, and not just be bystanders to criminal acts.

So to answer your question--yes.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. But you must know they're never going to...

It's not in the makeup of religious fanatics to respect the rights of anyone who's not one of them. Putting aside the fact that their presence there is against international law, let's just look at it pragmatically. They remain there and the IDF polices them and ends up stopping their attacks. The minute the IDF looks the other way they'd be off and running again. Using troops to ensure they don't carry out attacks would be a really poor use of resources. They'd have to be there permanently, and cost-wise that'd be a big burden on the taxpayer....

[pelsar]

44. I'm afraid your dreaming.....

violets answer is a good summary of the jews in hebron....its impossible to police them, it would mean putting a soldier next to every settler..including the 10yr old kids...

[Phx_Dem]

45. Violet and your view is shortsighted

I don't believe that it's in anyones "makeup"* to not show respect and understanding to others. We are talking about learned behavior. People and cultures can and do change over time, it's incumbent on us and people like us, to embody and encourage positive change in others.

*which has some pretty disgusting connotations, like eugenics "theory".

[breakaleg]

47. The problem with your view is that the IDF does not and will not police them properly.

So, allowing them to remain where they are effectively means that their behavior won't change. Therefore, you are sentencing the local Palestinians to more of the same.

In my view, it would take something drastic to change the current state of things. And nothing short of removing those settlers, will achieve that.

[Phx_Dem]

48. That's a cop out

Certainly the IDF deployed in the WB need additional training and given clear expectations for performance of duties. Soldiers need their work performance assessed and given feedback. You know, like every job in the world.

[breakaleg]

50. If there is any cop out, it's on the part of the state of Israel and their willingness to look the

other way when it comes to the settlers. It's they who are unwilling or unable to control them. I'm simply a realist.

[pelsar]

49. they're behaviour is learned...no doubt

i would also guess that part of their genetic makeup is to "take the extreme" but that is really not the point. They have learned that they're behavior within their social/cultural group its acceptable to throw stones, water beatup the local Palestinians. Its a cult with all the trappings of one......your "encouraging change" would be laughed at as they have god on their side. They can be forced to "act nice" as long as the threat and subsequent punishment is severe enough...their own freedom will be more important than beating up some Palestinian who happens to be walking by.

[eyl]

41. To elaborate

these groups also tend to be split along geographical lines. You'll find the secular* settlers mostly in the Jordan vally and settlements close to the Green Line (especially "settlements" which are basically suburbs of Jerusalem). The rabid exremists tend to cluster in the areas of Hebron and the Nablus region.

*For convenience, I'm referring by "secular" here also to the non-extremist religious settlers, of which there are quite a few

[eyl]

42. Stupid assholes n/t

[Scurrilous]

46. Israel's front-line thugs

Consistent stands against the depravity of the West Bank's lawless settlers are the only way to put an end to their crimes

<snip>

"News that leftwing activists are facing increased pressure to stay out of the West Bank is a worrying development in local politics, especially at a time when settler attacks on Palestinians are on the increase. Rather than clamp down on the settlers perpetrating the violence, the authorities are pursuing a path of locking the doors to the outside world and pretending that nothing at all is amiss.

Not all settlers are inherently violent; to portray their entire subgroup as such is as disingenuous as claiming that all Palestinians are fanatics just because there are radical elements in their midst. However, just because all settlers shouldn't be tarred with the same brush doesn't excuse the inaction and indifference on the part of the Israeli authorities when faced with the crimes of the extremists among the settler population.

Of late, there has been a steady stream of brutal assaults carried out by settlers against their Palestinian neighbours in the West Bank, right under the noses of the lackadaisical army. The phenomenon is, sadly, nothing new; what has brought the story back into the spotlight are the efforts of human rights groups, such as B'Tselem to film the violence and document the shocking reality on the ground – which is why, it seems, the authorities are so keen to clamp down on their activity in the region.

However, the settlers don't confine their vindictive and vicious attacks to Palestinians; they are not averse to attacking their Jewish peers either. Two recent incidents amply demonstrated the extent to which the Wild West Bank has become bandit country, with no sheriff's posse daring to stand up to the rogue elements holding the region at ransom.

First up was a Breaking the Silence tour to Hebron, whose bus was surrounded by jeering settlers who blocked their path and showered those aboard with abuse. Instead of intervening on behalf of the victims of the threatening mob, the police "did not manage to disperse the mob", "no arrests were made", and in the end they simply ordered the tour group to return from whence they came.

Then another Breaking the Silence group came under attack from settler vigilantes, who doused the participants with boiling water after confronting them in the streets of Hebron and heckling them with cries of "traitor", and other such hostile invective.

For anyone who's been to Hebron, Kiryat Arba, or any of the settlements which play home to the extremist hardcore of the settler movement, incidents such as those in Hebron, or the assaults in Susiya, are by no means surprising. Being subjected to settler abuse and attack is part and parcel of the experience for Israeli left-wingers and Palestinian locals alike. Sordid as it may be, the depths to which many settlers have sunk is merely a symptom of the malaise infecting Israeli society, rather than the cause."

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