Bill before AZ Legislature to allow guns in schools

[Bobbieo]

Individuals with a concealed-weapons permit would be allowed to bring their guns onto school grounds under a measure introduced by Republicans Senator Karen Johnson and Senate Majority Leader Thayer Verschoor.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

1. Stupid, stupid, stupid misguided people.

[Tejas]

8. Trusting a citizen that has been

examined as thoroughly as a LEO might be?

Very fair policy, makes sense to me.

[minavasht]

9. You are right!

All the evidence shows that "No weapons" signs make schools safe.
Think of all the deranged gunmen who saw them and turned around, choosing to go on a shooting spree in gun infested places.
After all, there are far more mass shootings in police stations and army bases than in schools, aren't there?

[pipoman]

10. Who are you referring to?

People who believe that law abiding, mentally sound adults who have undergone a criminal background check, psych background check, taken lawful use of force and firearms safety classes, and are statistically less likely to commit a crime than a police officer should be allowed to defend themselves and maybe others in the absence of police.

Or

Those who want to keep doing what we have been, hanging "no firearms" signs, maintaining a "zero tolerance" policy while counting on police to solve the problems singlehandedly.

Keep in mind Einstein's definition of insanity: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Still want to keep doing what we have been or are you ready to try something new?

[sabre73]

18. we forgive you

you have obviously have been denied the facts on how CCW permits have lead to many people not being another victim of school shootings.

They are out there and they are very encouraging! I am sure that when you see the fact presented in an honest and clear manner you might think twice about it!

Here is to hoping anyway :toast:

[Donkeykick]

2. I guess if one has a concealed permit...

you can count on them not going crackers. :eyes:

[gorfle]

4. Considering...

Considering the recent posts providing good anecdotal evidence that concealed carry holders are 5-300 times less likely to commit crimes than other citizens I'd say I have no problem with it at all.

[Donkeykick]

6. We Can Only Hope That It Continues That Way.

;-)

[virginia mountainman]

7. The best predictor of future behavior...

Is PAST behavior..

[Donkeykick]

13. Well...

the only exception with that is simply considering another factor.

How many concealed permits are there now in contrast to the future?

Sort of reminds me of a time that I was at a restaurant sitting up at the counter. A guy walks in and sits down next to me and we got on the subject of concealed permits. (I think that the TV, that the owner had installed up in the corner, that had CNN Headline News on, spurred the topic forward.) Anyways, he told me that he had a concealed permit. I was curious as to see how one went about getting one, so he told me. After he went through the details on how he got one, I asked him as to why he carried a gun; he told me no particular reason; he just felt safer with a gun.

OK. Whatever you're in to, I guess. :shrug:

[Name removed]

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[virginia mountainman]

3. No problem with it...

After all, the "gun free" zones are proven to be incredibly dangerous places, with an inordinant amount of mass killings happening their..

Let the "GOOD" people, if they so chose, and get the proper permits, carry.

[jody]

5. Given the stellar record of CCW holders, makes sense. Now we should pass laws forbidding criminals

from carrying guns on school property.

SB 1214 TITLE: concealed weapons; school grounds
The bill adds the following to Section 1. Section 13-3102, Arizona Revised Statutes, “3. Concealed firearm by a person who possesses a valid permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112.”

13-3112. Concealed weapons; qualification; application; permit to carry; certificate of firearms proficiency; training program; program instructors; report; applicability; violation; classification

A. The department of public safety shall issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to a person who is qualified under this section. The person shall carry the permit at all times when the person is in actual possession of the concealed weapon and shall present the permit for inspection to any law enforcement officer on request.

B. A person who fails to carry the permit at all times that the person is in actual possession of a concealed weapon may have the permit suspended. The department of public safety shall be notified of all violations of this section and shall immediately suspend the permit. The permittee shall present the permit to the law enforcement agency or the court. On notification of the presentation of the permit, the department shall restore the permit.

C. The permit of a person who is arrested or indicted for an offense that would make the person unqualified under section 13-3101, subsection A, paragraph 6 or this section shall be immediately suspended and seized. The permit of a person who becomes unqualified on conviction of that offense shall be revoked. The permit shall be restored on presentation of documentation from the court if the permittee is found not guilty or the charges are dismissed. The permit shall be restored on presentation of documentation from the county attorney that the charges against the permittee were dropped or dismissed.

D. A permittee who carries a concealed weapon and who fails to present a permit for inspection on the request of a law enforcement officer is guilty of a petty offense. A permittee shall not be convicted of a violation of this subsection if the permittee produces to the court a legible permit that is issued to the permittee and that was valid at the time the violation of this subsection occurred.

E. The department of public safety shall issue a permit to an applicant who meets all of the following conditions:

1. Is a resident of this state or a United States citizen.

2. Is twenty-one years of age or older.

3. Is not under indictment for and has not been convicted in any jurisdiction of a felony.

4. Does not suffer from mental illness and has not been adjudicated mentally incompetent or committed to a mental institution.

5. Is not unlawfully present in the United States.

6. Satisfactorily completes a firearms safety training program approved by the department of public safety pursuant to subsection O of this section. This paragraph does not apply to:

(a) A person who is an active duty Arizona peace officer standards and training board certified or federally credentialed peace officer or who is honorably retired as a federal, state or local peace officer with a minimum of ten years of service.

(b) A person who is an active duty county detention officer and who has been weapons certified by the officer's employing agency.

(c) A person who is issued a certificate of firearms proficiency pursuant to subsection X of this section.

F. The application shall be completed on a form prescribed by the department of public safety. The form shall not require the applicant to disclose the type of firearm for which a permit is sought. The applicant shall attest under penalty of perjury that all of the statements made by the applicant are true. The applicant shall submit the application to the department with a certificate of completion from an approved firearms safety training program, two sets of fingerprints and a reasonable fee determined by the director of the department.

G. On receipt of a concealed weapon permit application, the department of public safety shall conduct a check of the applicant's criminal history record pursuant to section 41-1750. The department of public safety may exchange fingerprint card information with the federal bureau of investigation for federal criminal history record checks.

H. The department of public safety shall complete all of the required qualification checks within sixty days after receipt of the application and shall issue a permit within fifteen working days after completing the qualification checks if the applicant meets all of the conditions specified in subsection E of this section. If a permit is denied, the department of public safety shall notify the applicant in writing within fifteen working days after the completion of all of the required qualification checks and shall state the reasons why the application was denied. On receipt of the notification of the denial, the applicant has twenty days to submit any additional documentation to the department. On receipt of the additional documentation, the department shall reconsider its decision and inform the applicant within twenty days of the result of the reconsideration. If denied, the applicant shall be informed that the applicant may request a hearing pursuant to title 41, chapter 6, article 10.

I. On issuance, a permit is valid for five years, except a permit that is held by a member of the United States armed forces, including a member of the Arizona national guard or a member of the reserves of any military establishment of the United States, who is on federal active duty and who is deployed overseas shall be extended until ninety days after the end of the member's overseas deployment.

J. The department of public safety shall maintain a computerized permit record system that is accessible to criminal justice agencies for the purpose of confirming the permit status of any person who claims to hold a valid permit issued by this state. This information and any other records that are maintained regarding applicants, permit holders or instructors shall not be available to any other person or entity except on an order from a state or federal court.

K. Notwithstanding subsection J of this section, it is a defense to any charge for carrying a deadly weapon without a permit by a member of the United States armed forces, including a member of the Arizona national guard or a member of the reserves of any military establishment of the United States, if the member was on federal active duty at the time the permit expired and the member presents documentation indicating release from active duty or reassignment from overseas deployment within the preceding ninety days.

L. A permit issued pursuant to this section is renewable every five years. Before a permit may be renewed, a criminal history records check shall be conducted pursuant to section 41-1750 within sixty days after receipt of the application for renewal. For the purposes of permit renewal, the permit holder is not required to submit additional fingerprints.

M. Applications for renewal shall be accompanied by a fee determined by the director of the department of public safety.

N. The department of public safety shall suspend or revoke a permit issued under this section if the permit holder becomes ineligible pursuant to subsection E of this section. The department of public safety shall notify the permit holder in writing within fifteen working days after the revocation or suspension and shall state the reasons for the revocation or suspension.

O. An organization shall apply to the department of public safety for approval of its firearms safety training program. The department shall approve a program that meets the following requirements:

1. Is at least eight hours in length.

2. Is conducted on a pass or fail basis.

3. Addresses all of the following topics in a format approved by the director of the department:

(a) Legal issues relating to the use of deadly force.

(b) Weapon care and maintenance.

(c) Mental conditioning for the use of deadly force.

(d) Safe handling and storage of weapons.

(e) Marksmanship.

(f) Judgmental shooting.

4. Is conducted by instructors who submit to a background investigation, including a check for warrants and a criminal history records check.

P. If approved pursuant to subsection O of this section, the organization shall submit to the department of public safety two sets of fingerprints from each instructor and a fee to be determined by the director of the department of public safety. On receipt of the fingerprints and fee, the department of public safety shall conduct a check of each instructor's criminal history record pursuant to section 41-1750. The department of public safety may exchange this fingerprint card information with the federal bureau of investigation for federal criminal history record checks.

Q. The proprietary interest of all approved instructors and programs shall be safeguarded, and the contents of any training program shall not be disclosed to any person or entity other than a bona fide criminal justice agency, except upon an order from a state or federal court.

R. If the department of public safety rejects a program, the rejected organization may request a hearing pursuant to title 41, chapter 6, article 10.

S. The department of public safety shall maintain information comparing the number of permits requested, the number of permits issued and the number of permits denied. The department shall annually report this information to the governor and the legislature.

T. The director of the department of public safety shall adopt rules for the purpose of implementing and administering the concealed weapons permit program including fees relating to permits and certificates that are issued pursuant to this section.

U. This state and any political subdivision of this state shall recognize a concealed weapon, firearm or handgun permit or license that is issued by another state or a political subdivision of another state if both:

1. The permit or license is recognized as valid in the issuing state.

2. The permit or license holder is all of the following:

(a) Not a resident of this state.

(b) Legally present in this state.

(c) Not legally prohibited from possessing a firearm in this state.

V. For the purpose of establishing mutual permit or license recognition with other states, the department of public safety shall enter into a written agreement if another state requires a written agreement.

W. Notwithstanding the provisions of this section, a person with a concealed weapons permit from another state may not carry a concealed weapon in this state if the person is under twenty-one years of age or is under indictment for, or has been convicted of, a felony offense in any jurisdiction, even if the person's rights have been restored and the conviction is expunged, set aside or vacated.

X. The department of public safety may issue certificates of firearms proficiency according to the Arizona peace officer standards and training board firearms qualification for the purposes of implementing the law enforcement officers safety act of 2004 (P.L. 108-277; 118 Stat. 865; 18 United States Code sections 926B and 926C). A law enforcement agency shall issue to a law enforcement officer who has honorably retired a photographic identification that states that the officer has honorably retired from the agency. The chief law enforcement officer shall determine whether an officer has honorably retired and the determination is not subject to review. A law enforcement agency has no obligation to revoke, alter or modify the honorable discharge photographic identification based on conduct that the agency becomes aware of or that occurs after the officer has separated from the agency.

[kansas city]

11. have qualified parents pull guard duty at the schools

We should, like they do in Isreal, have the Parents take turns guarding the schools with rifles in plain view.

I still think it's strange we had very minimal security in my school days. In High School we had a guy in the parking lot in civilian clothes just sitting there monitoring the lot. We never had Police in the School.

I went back to do some observations for a class 7 years later and there were security guards and cops in the schools. I also noticed the kids were out of control, talking back to the teachers, exhibiting general disrespect.

It's pretty clear things and degenerated over a short time and have not gotten any better. Parents are driving their kids to school because walking a mile or less is just to dangerous due to child molesters others kids bullying. this is in Suburbia.

We rejected God as a Society and we continue to pay the price.

[Endangered Specie]

16. What does God have to do with this?

I like your idea of parents guarding the schools, but what does God have to do with this debate may I ask?

[mvccd1000]

12. I hope it passes; I've written to my legislators.

Allowing CCW holders to carry in Utah, California, Oregon, etc. has not proved deadly in those states.

Citizens in possession of legal weapons stopped shootings in Pearl, MS, and the Appalachian School of Law.

Looks like a good idea to me.

[virginia mountainman]

14. that is the MOST UNDER REPORTED FACT out their today.

Citizens in possession of legal weapons stopped shootings in Pearl, MS, and the Appalachian School of Law.

People whom scream and cry about CCW in school have no answer to that "inconvenient" fact, so they ignore them. At present, besides a cop, that might or might not be there, the ONLY people with guns, are the "bad guys" the good guys, left theirs at home, out of fear of massive FELONY prosecution.

[Plague]

15. Outcome dictates...

Well, the laws that allow it could theoretically go either way, depending on how any one particular incident pans out. The situations we've already looked at are good examples of how this can go very right. But lets not kid ourselves, it's only going to take it going wrong once to have the law repealed.

[enfield collector]

17. Janet will sign this if it gets to her desk. She's very pragmatic

on the issue of guns. that's smart on her part because guns are a big deal in this state.

[mvccd1000]

20. You think so? She sure shot down some good ones last year.

I was rather disappointed in her veto of the bills to allow concealed carry on private property without a permit (the one that would have allowed apartment residents to CC all over the complex where they reside, for example), and the restaurant ban. Several states allow concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol and there have been zero incidents with CCW holders.

Does Janet think we are not as responsible as Virginians? Her gun record is marginal, at best.

Fortunately, there are several more bills on the agenda for this year. Let's hope she gets them right this time.

[sabre73]

19. Just for clarification

This is obviously intended for College campuses and adult staff members of the lower grad levels.

It does not mean that "Jack and Dian high school students" can carry due to the fact that hey are not legally allowed to purchase a hand gun until they reach the age of 21 respectively.

I would throw my support 100% behind this bill.

[AlinPA]

22. So 12 year olds who can hunt safely with a rifle can't own a handgun?

[ManiacJoe]

24. Correct.

They cannot "own" it until they become 18. They cannot "purchase" it until they become 21. They can receive it as a gift at 18. Technically, the child cannot "own" the rifle until 18 either.

[Yavapai]

21. I live in Arizona.

In the part of the state where open carry is the norm. I feel 100 time safer here than I ever did in The people's Republic of California, where the gun laws are very strict.

While in California, our next door neighbor kid became a gang-banger and twice he was the target of drive-by shootings and in one, bullets hit my pick up parked in my drive way. When the police came into my house to take a report they noticed my M-1 carbine next to and behind the door with two 30 round clips taped together (ready to return fire). They were horrified and told me I couldn't defend myself if another drive-by occurred.

When only the criminals have guns, the are very brave indeed. I notice that it is a very rare occurrence when there are drive-by shootings at police stations. In Arizona the high crime rate is in Phoenix, where open carry is forbidden. In the area where I live, gun violence, rape, robbery and such is unheard of. A robbery or mugging would make front page news in our local paper. In fact, two years ago, it was front page news when someone shot a cow about 20 miles from my house.

Screw California and their misguided laws.

[Lex1775]

23. I live in the northern suburbs of Phoenix...

And I see people open carry a couple of times a day. Especially out near the Sun City area. I've even seen people open carry in Scottsdale. I don't think it is outright forbidden, but a lot of chain/big box stores don't allow it because their corporate headquarters have said "no". That kind of limits the places where you can go and carry open.

Here is a good info site: http://opencarry.org/az.html

[EMdamascus]

26. Finally some sanity!

Good for AZ!