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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 10:34 AM Original message |
The criminal insanity of biofuels |
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acmavm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 10:39 AM Response to Original message |
1. I tried to argue this a few weeks ago. Apparently the resident |
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ingac70 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 10:40 AM Response to Original message |
2. I would like to see more interest in hemp based biofuels.... |
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OKIsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 06:52 PM Response to Reply #2 |
37. Unless of course ... |
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sam sarrha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
3. the corn used to make the fuel to fill the tank of an SUV can feed a starving african for a year |
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lapfog_1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 11:01 AM Response to Original message |
4. Please change your title |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 11:22 AM Response to Reply #4 |
5. Sorry, but no. |
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AlecBGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:05 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. a few points |
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lapfog_1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Of course, you are simply wrong. |
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Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 01:33 PM Response to Reply #10 |
15. Nice post (nt) |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 02:38 PM Response to Reply #10 |
23. Algae and ethanol |
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lapfog_1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:32 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. Ok. Point by point |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:42 PM Response to Reply #28 |
29. When I first read that UNH article two years ago I danced a jig. |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 08:50 PM Response to Reply #5 |
43. Blaming the famine problem on biofuel is a little disingenuous |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 09:16 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. Famine is definitely multifactorial |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 09:33 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. Because all biofuel and agriculture has the potential to be carbon negative. |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 07:29 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. They can only be carbon negative if they leave more carbon sequestered over time |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 08:14 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. NO-TILL FARMING OFFERS A QUICK FIX TO HELP WARD OFF HOST OF GLOBAL PROBLEMS |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 08:31 AM Response to Reply #47 |
49. SO DOES TERRA PRETA |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 08:46 AM Response to Reply #49 |
50. I had no intension of shouting |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 08:26 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. Carbon-Negative Biofuels from Low-Input High-Diversity Grassland Biomass |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 08:57 AM Response to Reply #48 |
51. The comment to that research paper indicates that the jury is still out |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 09:50 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. An open discussion of bioenergy is needed |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 10:03 AM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Biofuel processes and policies as currently constituted |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:11 PM Response to Original message |
7. There's nothing wrong with biofuels made from waste and biofuels |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:24 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Agriculture destroys natural habitats. |
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lapfog_1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:43 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. So... what's your plan then? |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 01:48 PM Response to Reply #13 |
17. Mass suicide, apparently. |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 02:50 PM Response to Reply #13 |
24. My plan |
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DangerDave921 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 08:33 AM Response to Reply #24 |
67. What? |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 08:45 AM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Sorry, I should remember to always qualify that statement to prevent this sort of misunderstanding. |
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DangerDave921 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 08:48 AM Response to Reply #68 |
70. LOL |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 10:02 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. It would be nice to see actual population reduction using these methods |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:00 PM Response to Reply #13 |
25. Electric trains and streetcars have been around a long, long time. |
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lapfog_1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:43 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. Nice little utopia there... |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 05:49 PM Response to Reply #30 |
36. The ability to do all that nasty stuff depends on cheap oil and natural gas... |
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kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 01:48 PM Response to Reply #9 |
18. ".......Agriculture destroys natural habitats........" |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 11:22 PM Response to Reply #18 |
65. Even Deep Ecologists permit agriculture. |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 01:54 PM Response to Reply #7 |
19. From an ecological (or even agricultural) perspective, there is really very little "waste" |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 02:29 PM Response to Reply #7 |
22. Sigh, you need to make friends with a farmer |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:24 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. We feed people but don't return the manure to the field |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 07:05 PM Response to Reply #27 |
39. Yes, it is already done all the time |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 03:10 PM Response to Reply #39 |
54. Not all farms have lost that much topsoil |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 03:23 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. Half of the topsoil gone is the average. Some farms have lost far more |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 03:33 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. I'm saying they have not lost any! |
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NNadir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 07:22 PM Response to Reply #7 |
41. If you don't know what you're talking about, make stuff up. |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:22 PM Response to Original message |
8. So land used not for food is a crime |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:36 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. Too many people using too many resources. |
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lapfog_1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:48 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. Might want to read |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:02 PM Response to Reply #8 |
26. It's Paul actually, not Jim. But that's OK |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:51 PM Response to Reply #26 |
31. The Jim line wasn't for you but the rest was |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 03:55 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. High five |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 12:35 PM Response to Original message |
11. Oh while we are the subject of food |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 02:02 PM Response to Reply #11 |
20. No, of course that's not OK. |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 01:39 PM Response to Original message |
16. Monbiot doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 02:16 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. Do the math |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 04:19 PM Response to Reply #21 |
33. I'd make a joke about you drafting Bush's math skills into the argument, but... |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 04:39 PM Response to Reply #33 |
35. Who said "everybody" would starve to death? |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 07:15 PM Response to Reply #35 |
60. Care to provide evidence? |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 08:18 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. Evidence? On the Internet? What a quaint idea. |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 09:33 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. Some things are not as they seem |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 10:32 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. What you're doing is known as "fisking" the argument. |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 08:46 AM Response to Reply #63 |
69. Your link does not have any mention of less weight of ddg |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 10:19 AM Response to Reply #69 |
72. Here's a link for the 18 pounds of DDGs |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 03:37 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. People will make the mix correct between food and fuel |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 11:11 PM Response to Reply #61 |
64. Oil prices are a greater factor in rising food prices |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 11:36 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Sure. Actually natural gas prices are one of my my biggest worries, especially for Africa |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 06:58 PM Response to Reply #33 |
38. Oh, and about the math thing |
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NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 07:09 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Damn laws of thermodynamics |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 04:57 PM Response to Reply #38 |
58. Your link does not read the same as you state |
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hankthecrank (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 06:20 PM Response to Reply #38 |
59. Don't have to use distilling to get ethanol from corn |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 04:28 PM Response to Reply #16 |
34. "Famine is by definition a logistical problem" |
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Fledermaus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Nov-26-07 08:14 PM Response to Original message |
42. Blaming the famine problem on biofuel is a little disingenuous |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Nov-27-07 03:53 PM Response to Original message |
57. More evidence of insanity |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Nov-28-07 08:49 PM Response to Original message |
74. Someone else notices the lunacy |
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