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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:21 PM
Original message
I am seriously considering joining the Green Party.
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 04:23 PM by Cascadian
This has been on my mind for a couple of weeks now. After serious consideration, I am planning to discussing with my fellow CNP members, about the future of the party. It has gone nowhere and maybe it's time scrap the idea of the Cascadian National Party for now. Oregon and Washington peacefully breaking away from the United States is not going to happen. Not now anyway.

I am going to join a party that shares my values of protecting the environment, that is where the Green Party comes in. I also agree with it's principles of social justice and universal one payer insurence. I also would like to bring some of the current policies of the CNP into the Green Party fold. Policies like protection of our region heritage and culture, tribal self-governance, a regional tv and radio network, unicameral legislative branches for our two states instead of a two-chamber house, workers rights, and promote and research alternative energy resources.

It remains to be seen how some of my ideas will go over with other Green Party members in Washington and Oregon. I think many of the CNP policies are practical and can work. I would like the idea of a "Cascadian faction" within the Geen Party in Oregon and Washington. We could peacefully promote our ideas.

While I do join the Green Party, I will continue with my support for Howard Dean. He is the only viable candidate who has a realistic chance of winning in 2004. It would be folly and haphazard for the Green Party or any other third party to front a presidential candidate right now. We need to support Howard Dean and make sure he will get the Democratic nomination and hopefully the White House.

If you want to see the CNP platform, please go to this website.

http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/cascadia/policies.html


John
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I Think The Senate Is A Good Check On The House
even at the state level....


I live in Florida and the Florida House passed a draconian malpractice reform bill. Thank God the Florida Senate removed some of its excesses but it's still not very good...

I would think anybody who witnessed the abortion that was the California recall would be wary of plebiscitary democracy....

The Founding Fathers were wise to create a federal system with bi cameral legislatures with checks and balances...
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Register "Independent."
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 04:36 PM by DemsUnite
(Oops, this post was in response to the authors original thread.)

That way, The Democratic Party will actually value your vote.

As you are about to find out, a registered Green is "persona non grata" under the "Big Tent."


Here it comes:

Three...

Two...

One...
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. *pttthbt*
there's the sound of a bomb bursting in the air -- a dud. Greens are welcome here. We have a bunch of well-known Greens here..

Hawkeye-X
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. While I join the Greens, I have one problem though.
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 04:39 PM by Cascadian
Why are there two national Green parties? Shouldn't there be one, unified party?


John

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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
34. dance in minefields, perchance?
It would be nice if there were one unified party, but in the US the Green movement is indeed split into two, and they are not terribly interested in uniting.

I tried to clarify the difference a couple of month ago between the two factions, and someone on the supposedly more radical side, sensing that I don't get enough partisan grief from centrist Democrats, jumped all over me for pointing out that the larger GPUS is considered the wing involved in electoral politics. Apparently there are exceptions.

Best of luck to you.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. All I know is when I switched from Democrat to Independent,
suddenly everyone wants to hear what my concerns are.

I frequently get polling calls, knocks on my door, and mail-in surveys from both parties.

20 years of a (D) next to my name yielded silence.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. I am a confessed socialist
but I am a registered Democrat. I'm fronting and talking to people about Howard Dean and showing that he's the real thing and can turn America around. It is to a point where I am fully supporting him, and also listening to other candidates who are at best, marginal compared to Howard Dean. Even Kucinich, which is supposed to be very liberal, doesn't have the appeal to me for two reasons. 1) he's a Washington insider and 2) he's virtually unelectable (not saying completely, Kucinich fans - I met the man two weeks ago, and I'm impressed - maybe he can be a Cabinet member or something for the Dem administration, his ideas are sound, and we have to be realistic - we need someone that can work with both sides of the aisle, and Kucinich can't do it) Howard Dean is an clear outsider of Washington, and has very sound ideas and policies and truly speaks from the heart. He is what I call a people's person.

If you decide to go Green, then by all means, go for it. We are one big tent as long we stick with the goal - ABB.

Hawkeye-X

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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. HawkeyeX I'm impressed by you BUT (big nice but)
for you to say Kucinich isn't electable sears my soul because of the reasons you gave.

You say Kucinich can't work both sides of the aisle? I would really like you to research how the war in Yugoslavia was ended and who worked with Tom Campbell (CA) (R) to accomplish that. Worked so hard and lobbied other Reps so successfully that Clinton had to have the votes counted and recounted, stunned that enough votes had been mustered to stop the air assault

You are repeating right-wing/centrist spin with that one. Kucinich has been re-elected in his district how many times? And with the support of Republican voters because the issues he addresses go straight to everyone.

If you are truly interested, I would be happy to do specific research on this for you but you are wrong and that Kucinich is one of the few who has consistently and successfully worked both sides of the aisle to get bills passed. There are tons of examples out there... Here are just a quick few I got from googling Kucinich and Bi-partisan. This is actually one of his strengths.

Peace
---------------
Reps. Kucinich & LaTourette
Author Bipartisan Steel Legislation
Responds to Crises in Steel Industry
and Aging Infrastructure;
Legislation to provide zero-interest loans

http://www.house.gov/kucinich/press/infrastrc3.html

-----------------------

During the general election campaign, Kucinich was endorsed by the Sun Newspaper chain, the suburban West Life newspaper, and Ohio's largest newspaper, the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Even the chair of the Cuyahoga County Republicans conceded that Kucinich "championed popular causes in the district and it's hard to dislike a guy when he's out there fighting for you." Kucinich's first term in Congress demonstrated his willingness and ability to reach out across the partisan divide to work with Democrats and Republicans on challenges at the local, state and national levels. By most accounts, his greatest achievement was leading the effort to secure nearly $85 million in private, federal and state funding to construct needed overpasses and underpasses in Cleveland's West Shore communities. This success will stop a proposed near-tripling of train traffic through several densely populated West shore suburbs. Kucinich received widespread praise for his work with suburban mayors and elected officials, Norfolk Southern Railroad and CSX Transportation, and Ohio's Republican Governor George Voinovich to help secure the required funding.

<snip>

In Congress, Kucinich's bipartisan work on a national scale has focused on several areas key to the needs of his congressional district, particularly in the areas of trade policy, environmental protection, and National Aeronautical and Space Administration (NASA) funding. Kucinich helped form a coalition of Democrats and Republicans united in defeating the Clinton Administration's effort to pass "Fast Track"; he led the early effort to support the new clean air rules proposed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); and, finally, he coordinated a bipartisan effort of 201 House members to object to a proposed $1 billion cut in NASA funding, an effort which actually resulted in a $100 million increase for the space agency.

For this work, Kucinich has been praised by a wide spectrum of colleagues, including Republicans Pat Buchanan ("Another Ohioan in the great tradition of Bill McKinley") and Government Reform Committee Chairman Dan Burton ("I wish he were a Republican"), and Democratic Congressmen Dave Bonior ("Dennis has shined as brightly as anyone in his class") and Henry Waxman ("Your final grade for managing your first bill is an A+"). Kucinich's bipartisan approach is reflected in his being asked to serve as the co-chair of the House Aviation and Space Caucus, aimed at promoting the interests of NASA and the aerospace industry, and as the co-chair of the Baltic Caucus, an informal bipartisan group of House members with backgrounds and interests in issues affecting Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.
<snip>

http://www.shirleymaclaine.com/i-expression/radio-denniskucinich.html
--------------------


House Takes Historic Step Against Patriot Act - In Late Night Vote Passes Bipartisan Otter/Kucinich/Paul Amendment To Withhold Money For "Sneak-And-Peek" Searches

WASHINGTON - July 23 - In a historic late night vote the United States House of Representatives passed a bipartisan amendment offered by Congressman C.L. "Butch" Otter (R-ID), Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich (D-OH) and Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) to withhold funding for "sneak-and-peek" searches under the USA PATRIOT Act.


http://www.commondreams.org/news2003/0724-03.htm

---------------------------------------------------

Kucinich is a supporter of Representative Greg Ganske's (R-IA) Bipartisan Patient Protection Act of 2001, which mandates that health care insurers review their policies and group health plans and forbids them from discriminating against licensed health care professionals; it stipulates that insurers must offer greater benefits to consumers, including: extended medical savings account options, 100% deductions of health insurance expenses for unemployed insurees, small business health expenditure credits, and access to medical information.

Representative Kucinich cosponsored the John Conyers legislation setting October 2004 as a target date for the goal of providing affordable, comprehensive, cost efficient, preventive, interventive, equitable, timely, continuous network of health care with a rural/urban emphasis on consumer choice and reduction of red tape and paperwork. Representative Kucinich cosponsored Representative Roger Wicker's (R-MS) Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy Community Assistance, Research, and Education Amendments of 2001 (MD CARE), setting in place grants and contracts for neurological research programs to treat varying forms of muscular dystrophy. He supported the Medicare Diabetes Education and Supplies Amendments, authored by former Congresswoman Elizabeth Furse (D-OR), covering self-management training and blood-testing for diabetics under Medicare. Kucinich has given his approval to Representative Ben Cardin's (D-MD) Access to Emergency Medical Services Act of 1997, ensuring that emergency health services in group health plans are properly carried out.

Kucinich endorsed a comprehensive plan authored by Representative Pete Stark (D-CA), entitled the Medicare Early Access Act of 1998, committed to: making group health plans with limited premiums available to those between the ages of 62 to 65 who are not yet eligible for Medicare; giving medical benefits to displaced workers between the ages of 55 to 62; setting up a national trust fund composed of collected premiums; and continuing COBRA coverage to retirees and extending its benefits to any of their dependents. Kucinich was a firm endorser of Congressman Bill Young's (R-FL) National Bone Marrow Registry Reauthorization Act of 1998, allowing public disclosure of registered statistics for donor searches. He was a cosponsor of Representative Rosa DeLauro's (D-CT) Medicare Medical Nutrition Therapy Act of 1997, adding Social Security benefits to pay for senior citizens' nutrition therapy under the direction of certified dieticians and nutritionists. He endorsed Congresswoman Nancy Johnson's (R-CT) Medicare Medical Nutrition Therapy Act of 1999, financing dietary nutrition therapy for Medicare beneficiaries.

http://www.votewithavengeance.com/kucinich.html
---------------------------------------------

----- On the Yugoslavia vote (which I already researched on the house site- the final tally was 213 to 213 I believe):

WORKED WITH several members of Congress, building opposition to giving the President war powers authority. The decisive moment was April 28. On that day, the House of Representatives voted, in a test of the War Powers Act, not to give the Administration full authority in the war, including the ability to use ground troops. This single vote may well have been the turning point of the war. The White House and Democratic leaders held a relentless series of meetings to lobby for the war, including small focus groups with members of Congress, caucus meetings, and whip meetings to organize floor counts and check and recheck the vote. They were stunned when the vote ended in a tie, defeating the measure and forcing the Administration to look toward diplomatic channels to end the conflict.

http://www.progressive.org/kuc899.htm
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. I couldn't agree more.
This sums up my attitude perfectly. I don't want an "insider" anymore.
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Rashind Donating Member (221 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sorry, bub...
I'm voting my conscience now and forever. I'm boosting Kucinich in the primary. I might support Dean in the general election if he gets the nom, but he's no Clinton.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. contrary to popular opinion, it's possible to support democrats
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 04:45 PM by noiretblu
while being a member of the green party :eyes: i made the move seven years ago, and i have no regrets. i have always voted strategically in national elections, as i did in the fiasco here in CA yesterday, but i do support greens locally.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. As they say....
All politics are local.

John
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Are you familiar with "Proportional Representation"?
I think it has possibilities for leading America out of its electoral quagmire. I hear it discussed on Canadian radio, the CBC.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22proportional+representation%22

This could be started on a local level and in select states.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree that the two parties have way too much power.
This is why I pine for a parliamentary system like in Canada and many parts of Western Europe. They have a better range of political choices and the emphasis is on the party and not the person running. It should be one of things I would like to bring up to at the next local Green Party meeting.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Better discussions of issues also...
The Greens need to work on getting their people into the Senate and the House. Once they have a critical mass voting bloc, they will be able to negotiate with both the mainstream parties. I think it will be quite a while before they run a Presidential candidate who has a real chance.

I really hope people don't switch out because I do think the country needs three... or more... parties. Still, in Israel they have proportional representation in the Knesset and it's a real mess. A little bit goes a long way, I suppose.
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. The Greens need to work on local elections.
The rise to power needs to go slowly. Start with city and county, then state, and then national. It will take some time but it is not impossible for the Green Party to actually succeed. I also would strongly advise that both Green Parties merge. It is better to be a unified force. IMHO.


John
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Or, you know, we could...
pick a sane voting method. One that isn't plagued by an inability to fully account for the preferences of the vote. One that doesn't allow for 'strategic' voting.

Condorcet, baby, Condorcet.
:D
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. Go for it!
If they best represent your values, join right up!
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leftyandproud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm with you!
Our goal must be to pull the dems back to their base...back to the LEFT. The only hope they have to win a majority back is to proudly and openly co-opt the green agenda. Stand without fear for progressive causes, and the entire left will unite behind them. Unfortunately, the only way to pound this into their heads is to not vote for GOP-lite.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. This is incorrect, I'm afraid
So far the Greens have not been at all successful at moving the Democrats back to leftist values--what the Democrat leadership sees is the amount of media captial to be gained from corporate friendliness (and the resultant electoral victories), and copies that--it doesn't see that selling out the base is ruining them, it sees successfully marketed and packaged Republicans as destroying them. When a Democrat loses to a Green in a major national race, more credence will doubtless be paid, but right now, right or wrong, "we should adopt the Green platform" is about the furthest thing from the leadership's mind. Total rejection of corporate friendliness would torpedo what little media captial the Democrats have--the base would be revitalized, true, but no one would ever hear about it, or they would only hear how "anti-American" the new Democratic platform was. I agree with some of the Green party platform, but used nationally it would be buried very quickly. And yes, it is a sad state of affairs when that is the case.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Don't be silly.
Stay or register as a Democrat so you can vote in the Democratic primaries. Vote for the greenest Democrat in the primaries. If the winner isn't green enough for ya, then vote Green.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who did you vote for in 2000 John? n/t
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I voted for Gore.
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 05:36 PM by Cascadian
I was going to go for Nader, but considering that the vote was very close at the time I voted, I decided to cast it to Gore. Even though there were many things I disagreed with Gore on plus I never forgot Tipper's attack on the music industry with the PMRC in the late 80's. Still, I didn't want Bush to win.

So there you go!


John
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. So this Green thing is nothing new for you then? Is that correct? n/t
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Well, I voted for Nader in 1996.
So no it isn't, but vote in 96 was a protest vote because Clinton disappointed me in regards to his free trade stance as well as the "three strikes" crime bill and don't ask, don't tell. I have no regrets voting for him that time around. I voted Gore to keep Bush out of the White House. A lot of good that did. I may hold my nose and vote for any Democratic nominee in 2004 because the country is in crisis.


John
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm seriously considerng not caring
NT
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Good for you!
Happy to hear it.


John
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. So if it's a "sinking ship," pray tell why are you aboard?
Makes no sense, unless you're the Captain.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Don't know about random but I am staying to do my part and help bail
Better than jumping in the water with the sharks.

Don

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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I was never a Democrat but....
the ship is leaking and bound to sink.


John
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. political parties are meant to serve their members not the other way aroun
If someone decides they dont see any benefits of being in the CNP then he should leave. And you should read what he said he's not in your prescious Democratic Party.
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Cascadian is NOT the one I want to say bye-bye to.
Edited on Wed Oct-08-03 07:34 PM by Tinoire
Are you here on a destabilization mission by any chance?

If not, you're certainly doing a good imitation of it.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
31. At our local meet-up, the guy who
drives the furthest to be there proudly sports a Greens For Dean button. All are welcome!

Best of luck on your journey! :hi:

Julie
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Thank you.
I am happy to be a part of the Greens for Dean group. I have had a great experience so far in supporting Howard Dean. I really feel good about his chances next year. Though I must admit I am concern about what the flying monkey Bush crowd might try to do to scuttle Dean. We must all be vigilant. Just a thought.


John
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janekat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
32. If you're concerned about the environment why are you supporting
Dean and not Kuchinich? Dean has a terrible record on the environment?
http://www.vtce.org/deanenvironmentomya.html
http://www.kucinichdeancompare.com/
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-08-03 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. you know, there's only one "h" in Kucinich
you keep spelling his name wrong, and I thought you might want to correct yourself
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. I like Kucinich but let's be realistic.
Dean has the best chance to unseat Bush. I may not agree with all of his policies but I think all of this partisan politics is going to divide us further. I am willing to put aside whatever differences there are to get Bush and his goons out of the White House. I am afraid Kucinich is not going to get the nomination. I hate to say it but it's true.

John
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-09-03 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
38. Oh No!!!!! Pleaaaaase dont!!!!!
Edited on Thu Oct-09-03 10:12 AM by John_H
If a thousand more DU'ers join up, they'll be able to seriously affect the Bumble,OR bridge comissioners race, prvided of course they're all residents of Bumble, OR.

Seriously, my well-intentioned suggestion to rejuvinate the rapidly flagging Green Party membership: Maybe ralph could give one share each of his Wal-Mart, Viacom, and Merk stock to everyone that joins the party. That way they can all profiteer from the companies they profess to hate.
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