Was de Menezes killed in cold blood?

[John Doe II]

As I've basically no internet access at the moment no long article just two important links that should be read:

The Brazilian electrician mistakenly killed by police in the aftermath of the second London bombings was being restrained by an officer before he was shot eight times as he was sitting on a Tube train, it emerged tonight.

Witness statements and photographs from an independent police investigation leaked to ITV News also show that Jean Charles de Menezes did not run away from police at Stockwell Tube station in South London and was wearing only a denim jacket before he was shot dead on July 22.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1738370,00.html



Britain's ITV television news claimed on Tuesday, citing security footage, that Menezes entered the station at a normal walking pace, stopping to pick up a newspaper.

The television station claimed that witness accounts, included in an investigation report into the shooting, said Menezes was seated on the train before being shot.

A man sitting opposite Menezes is quoted as saying: "Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left.

"He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me. He pointed the gun at the right hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches (30 centimeters) of the man's head when the first shot was fired."
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/16/police.shooting.ap/index.html

[Benbow]

1. One, the Times is a Murdoch paper; two, we should wait for the report

from the independent police investigation. All this stuff is alleged.

One of the BIG mysteries about Jean Charles de Menezes is how he managed to have enough money left over from his freelancing work as an electrician - with no work permit (he was in the UK illegally) - to send some home to his family in Brazil. And afford a holiday in Paris.

If, say, he was dealing in cocaine (much of which comes from Brazil) - which pays much better than being an electrician - then the criminal network will be doing their darndest to discredit the police. And the Murdoch newspapers are helping.

Edited to correct spelling of Paris.

[Richard Steele]

2. And you seem to be "helping" a bit yourself, no?

Where do you recieve your exclusive secret info
that lets you throw "coke dealer" into this situation?

We now know that the "police" who killed this man
have LIED about almost every aspect of the situation...

But even they havn't played the "drug dealer" card yet.

Thank GOD you have the balls to play it for them!

[Karenina]

23. Psssst... DS,

Is it just me or did someone just cut the cheese? Musta been some of that French stuff! ;-)

[Richard Steele]

25. To quote one of my favorite moments from the cartoon "Family Guy"...

LOIS:
"Ohmigod, what is that smell?"

BRIAN the dog:
*sniff, snifff* "That's either BAD meat, or GOOD cheese!"

[Henny Penny]

3. lol

:rofl:

Don't forget the fact that he may have been an illegal alien and why, he practically brought it on himself!

:sarcasm:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

4. Electrical work ain't cheap.

how he managed to have enough money left over from his freelancing work as an electrician

Given the amount we've just spent on re-wiring our tiny office building, I can definitely see how he'd have money left over.

[DemExpat]

6. The woman who helps me with heavy household tasks once a month

earns enough housekeeping to send money every month to her family in the Philippines....and she goes on vacations once a year.

I saw the BBC television report on it this morning and am horrified at the chain of events and mistakes that led to his brutal murder.

DemEx

[Horse with no Name]

16. Nurses AIDES that I used to work with

save enough to take their families to India for 1-2 months at a time.
I don't think they deal coke on the side. They are just good money managers.

[H2O Man]

5. Or he may have

been planning to yank hundreds of "do not remove" tags off of pillows and mattresses throughout the Free World. This would surely justify his being executed, and then the series of outright lies the police told afterword fall on him. Do DUers appreciate the problems that could have been caused by removing these tags, made in Brazil?

On the other hand, he might have been totally innocent, and just minding his own business, when police murdered him. In that case,some will try to justify this cold-blooded murder by saying he was a potential terrorist, a drug dealer, or even worse -- a mattress tag thief.

[mogster]

7. This is truly crappy argumentation

I just wanted to let you know ;-)

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Have you no shame?

Finally sir, have you no shame?

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. First of all Murdoch may indeed own the Times

but part of the agreement he made when he bought them was that he would have no editorial control over the content of what they publish.

Second, Peru and Bolivia are the countries of choice for cocaine, not Brazil. But why would that stop someone like you from spreading misinformation?

[Swamp Rat]

14. Obrigado!

[Swamp Rat]

13. Porra! Você tá inventando esta história!

Você não sabe nada! Esta é conversa racista de uma cara de pau! :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Riiiight...and Abner Louima had his colon ripped by rough gay sex

and not by the police plunger!

It's amazing that when the police get to defending their indefensible brutality, they do so not only with outright lies and outrageous statements (how else do immigrantssend money home and take vacations other than by selling cocaine, and he was from that South America after all, wink wink), but with lies and outrageous statements that further impugn the very people they have brutalized.

You should be well and truly fucking ashamed of yourself, Benbow.

[mogster]

8. Why did the police lie?

Why did the Met. chief and all authorities involved, lie?
They must have known from the same day the murder happened that the 'public' version of the story was pure bullshit - don't tell me they didn't check the surv. cams right away. They did, they knew, they covered it up - on purpose.


Why did the Met. chief say 'This could happen again'? How far into the UK police/establishment does this way of treating data versus the public, go?

More interesting; what was Bliars involvement in this. Can't we just see this slobbering fuck smiling at another possibility to lie to the Brit public? Why did he stonewall a public inquiry into the bombings/investigation?

What will happen to these people, the people involved in shooting down an inncoent man on purpose, then covering it up?

I wonder.

[cthrumatrix]

10. why does govt lie and media cover .... we have asked that question

many times

[MisterP]

24. this plus the Mad-Eyed Dictator's plans to eradicate "extremism" from the

Isles.
The SHAC 7 will be lucky if they're not locked in the Tower of London as some guy in a black hood stumps about.

[Bark Bark Bark]

11. Eschaton (Atrios) Mention (with Guardian link)

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_08_14_atrios_archive.html#112420193160241985

Not that the jingosphere cares. The Right is always willing to sacrifice innocent others in their holy war against scary brown people.

...

Never occurs to them that it could be their melon with 7 slugs in it. Almost makes me miss the party of Randy Weaver.

Click on the link above to catch the Guardian link to what Atrios is talking about.

I will have to disagree with At on one point: it ALWAYS occurs to them that it could be their melon. Jingoists and racists ALWAYS assume that anyone outside of their little group is some evil monster who is part of a dark, swirling conspiracy to enslave, emasculate, and murder them; that's the phony justification for their whole "Do Unto Others Then Split" philosophy (AKA The Bush Doctrine).

[JohnyCanuck]

17. Sunday Times asking about role of UK special forces in the shooting

Press photographs of members of the armed response team taken in the immediate aftermath of the killing show at least one man carrying a special forces weapon that is not issued to SO19, the Metropolitan police firearms unit.

The man, wearing civilian clothes with a blue cap marked “Police”, was carrying a specially modified Heckler & Koch G3K rifle with a shortened barrel and a butt from a PSG-1 sniper rifle fitted to it — a combination used by the SAS.

<snip>

The soldiers who took part in the surveillance operation that led to de Menezes’s death included men from a secret undercover unit formed for operations in Northern Ireland, defence sources said.

Known then as 14 Int or the Det, it is reported to have formed the basis of the Special Reconnaissance Regiment, the newly created special forces unit stationed alongside the SAS at Hereford. The men include SAS soldiers serving on attachment and are part of a team of around 50 UK special forces that has operated in London since the July 7 bombings in which 56 people died.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1715192,00.html

[Mairead]

18. This shoot-them-dead protocol comes from the Israelis (and Sri Lankans)

What does that suggest about the number of 'Palestinian suicide bomber terrorists' being killed?

[uppityperson]

19. Here's the BBC link to a comparison chart-Initial/Leaked reports

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4158832.stm
appalling.

[dancingme]

20. And what's Michelle Malkin's response?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4377311

[SoCalDem]

21. Um.. yes

:(

[Karenina]

22. After all, it's

OPEN SEASON BROWN PEOPLE!!! I strongly suggest avoiding the tanning salons, it could save your LIFE!!! ;-)