Zogby: Americans Not in Favor of Starving Terri Schiavo

[Gannon Man Date]

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=11131

Zogby Poll: Americans Not in Favor of Starving Terri Schiavo

Polls leading up to the death of Terri Schiavo made it appear Americans had formed a consensus in favor of ending her life. However, a new Zogby poll with fairer questions shows the nation clearly supporting Terri and her parents and wanting to protect the lives of other disabled patients.

The Zogby poll found that, if a person becomes incapacitated and has not expressed their preference for medical treatment, as in Terri's case, 43 percent say "the law presume that the person wants to live, even if the person is receiving food and water through a tube" while just 30 percent disagree.

Another Zogby question his directly on Terri's circumstances.

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, should or should they not be denied food and water," the poll asked. A whopping 79 percent said the patient should not have food and water taken away while just 9 percent said yes.

-snip

Great. I can just imagine the Repuke campaign commercials being dreamed up. They'll be exploiting that poor woman for years.

[Bluebear]

1. Wonderful. Important matters of ethics being reduced to "polls" n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Yeah, Zogby's a real "liberal"

:sarcasm:

[mattclearing]

40. Hey.

Zogby was an ally on the election fraud issue.

He sent a representative to Rep. Conyers's informal hearing, and has refused to back off from his polling prediction of a win for Kerry.

This reminds me of the people claiming Jesse Jackson was a sellout because of Terry Schiavo...another election reform proponent, and one who has always been supportive of the Democratic Party and civil rights.

People need to stop bashing would-be allies.

[KittyWampus]

44. The Why Is This Written In A Manner Totally Devised To Help GOP?

It says "fairer questions" and also says "when patient didn't express their wishes".

Terri Schiavo DID express her wishes. To her husband and several friends.

Further, the parents said they didn't care what their daughter might have wanted- THEY wanted her kept on the medicine tube.

[mattclearing]

50. I don't see how you are addressing my post.

I'm saying that we need to stop attacking everyone that has an opinion that doesn't agree with everything the majority of DU'ers believe.

I hate seeing people viciously attacked simply for not toeing the DU line.

This ain't Freeperville.

[sonicx]

52. yes, but Zogby clearly put out a bias poll

i don't know if he meant to or not, but it is bias. It is fair to point it out.

Imagine making an abortion poll that said...

"Should women be able to deny life to their unborn kids?"

[mattclearing]

54. He was looking to illuminate an issue.

You may think it is biased. Freepers think the network polls saying that Congress and the President shouldn't have intervened were biased.

It's just a different way to look at it. Don't shoot the messenger...Zogby has been an ally in the past, and I for one will not forget it.

Zogby showed up when the election was stolen. That is enough for me.

[sonicx]

57. Well, i personally am not attacking Zogby, just the poll questions

There's no need to make slanted questions for a 'new angle.'

[mattclearing]

58. See my other post below.

That's your opinion. Zogby thought otherwise. That doesn't necessarily make him a freeper.

Like I said, he's been an ally, just like Jesse Jackson.

Quite a few previously sane people have lost me on the Schiavo issue, but I don't plan to alienate them, but rather to welcome them back with open arms once it fades from the national consciousness.

[sonicx]

61. when did I call him a freeper? i am addressing the poll question

and it is not neutral. plus it gives incorrect information about the issue.

[KittyWampus]

53. A Poll Isn't Supposed To Be FORMING Opinion By Asking Slanted

questions if it's a reputable poll.

That was my poorly made point.

[mattclearing]

55. That's fine.

And I think he was just trying to get at the reality of the issue.

While most people think it's not Bush's and Congress's business, most people also think death by starvation/dehydration sucks.

If Zogby put out a poll that said, "In the event that you were to be rendered brain dead, would you prefer:

death by drug overdose

death by starvation/dehydration

death by gunshot wound

death by suffocation

life support"

, you probably wouldn't be as angry.

I remember Zogby showed up when the election was stolen. That's more than I can say for that shit-eater Mitofsky.

:D

[sonicx]

59. But the method of her death isn't the issue

The issue is should it be allowed to happen?

Most people probably think abortion "sucks" too, but i don't care. The question is should it be legal or not?

[mattclearing]

60. That's exactly the issue as Zogby seems to have framed it. n/t

[sonicx]

62. no, the question was "denied food or water." that is framed to produce

unfounded sympathy in the respondant for Terri as if she is being 'punished'.

[mattclearing]

63. I see what you are getting at.

You don't see Zogby asking people if the homeless should be "denied food or water."

[sonicx]

65. You know, it would be interesting to see what kind of response that...

poll question got. It would probably be overwhelmingly against, but FOX News and company would immediately denounce it.

Unfortunately, this Shiavo poll will be embraced by that same machine.

[Eloriel]

92. Good grief! She WAS denied food and water.

Just how would YOU phrase that in YOUR poll?

[MollyStark]

97. Jinx

:)

That is what I would like to know.

[sonicx]

100. "Should the feeding tube have been removed or should it have remained?"

...is how it was stated in another poll. Another..."Do you agree or disagree with removing Terri's feeding tube. Most polls asks one of those questions, more or less.

Saying she is 'denied' food, in addition to incorrectly framing the issue, creates bias ('You are punishing Terri!'). Again, it would be like asking someone if women should be allowed to "deny life to an unborn child." 'Pro-life' groups actually do polls like that, and no surprise, the results are usually in the 'save the child' direction.

A good abortion poll would be "Should abortion be legal or illegal?(with a few qualifiers like "some of the time" "most of the time" etc.)

[MollyStark]

96. How should he have asked the question?

[MollyStark]

95. For many people the method of her death is the issue. n/t

[sonicx]

105. I understand, but Docters and many DU's with family members who...

have gone through the same thing say that Terri's method of death is not painful.

Here's a DU thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3321086

[scarletlib]

78. yes his question is biased as it says

"not in a coma" but doesn't mention the fact of the PVS. Just reading or hearing that question you might think she was disabled but otherwise conscious. It is a misleading question at the very least.

Also he did this several days after all of the misleading crap in the media.

[Eloriel]

101. She wasn't unconscious -- that would be a coma.

She wasn't in a coma.

[sonicx]

103. She was unconscious. In fact, Jeb's questionable doctor admitted it.

[Cha]

69. AND zogby was WRONG

about Kerry "winning"!

[MollyStark]

94. I don't get it

He took a poll and this is how people answered. What does that have to do with his own political position?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

113. Did you read the questions?

Do you know what a push poll is?

[ixion]

3. how about c) it's none of your business

really, this whole 'let the public decide' business on private matters is truly disgusting.

[shoelace414]

4. notice

it doesn't say anything about a persistent vegetative state, just disabled.

the way it's worded it like people want to pull the plug on someone with down syndrome.

[KittyWampus]

46. Exactly, This Is A Misleading Poll & Article. Intentionally So.

Ask WHO paid for this.

[slackmaster]

5. They should have given her a hot shot of morphine

It would have been more humane.

[Journeyman]

37. As it was, they treated her more shabbily and less humanely. . .

than Florida treats the condemned on death row.

Even if a person in this woman's condition "feels no pain," those around them -- both their relatives and their attendants -- certainly do feel pain and loss, and to torture them as the patient slowly expires from thirst and starvation is a particularly odious form of "cruel and unusual" behavior.

I say, if the decision's made to withhold nourishment, assuring the patient's eventual, gradual demise, then take the full measure and end all the suffering -- their's as well as those around them -- and put them down. We do no less for our animals.

[slackmaster]

70. That's exactly how I feel about it

It's legal to put a dog or cat down with intravenous drugs, but with a human in her condition the only legal way to allow her to die is to withhold nourishment.

I've seen a few wackos on the right saying the whole publicity event around the Schiavo case was perpetrated by people on the left who want to legalize euthanasia. :crazy: It's pretty obvious to me (someone please tell me if I am nuts) that the anti-abortion/pro-life crowd was responsible for the circus.

[Eloriel]

98. I agree, but here's why that's impossible

Under current law, namely the Supreme Court's decision that made tube feeding and hydration equivalent to the same heroic measures as ventilator and other machines that keep people alive moment-by-moment, stopping food and water is no different from stopping a ventilator legally. The difference, of course, is that machine cessation causes immediate death, food/water cessation does not.

This long, drawn out death that the courts have declared legal and which Terri went through is therefore not considered euthanisia, which would of course be against the law. A QUICKER death to someone like Terri Schiavo who is NOT termianlly ill, would be euthanasia -- legally verboten.

Sick, ain't it?

[SoCalDem]

6. Well gee whiz.. Let's just resurrect her.. the polls have spoken

:P

[Teaser]

7. C'mon people. Don't get snowed.

These polls do not accurately reflect American Opinion. They are jury rigged for a particular result (leaving out the fact that the body in question is devoid of a meaningful brain, for one).

[spanone]

8. A new poll? Fairer questions? hiding thread.

[MollyStark]

99. Will you also be sticking your head in the sand?

Covering your ears and singing la la la la la?

[Inland]

9. Well, it's the default position IF THERE IS NO PREFERENCE STATED.

No expression whatsoever; what do you do?

Note this is different from what plagiarist meathead Dennis Byrne suggested in his column today: without a written Living Will specifically referring to removing a feeding tube, it stays in. Therefore it's not enough for him that ten bishops swear that Terri said she would want a feeding tube removed; she has to have thought far enough ahead so that Denny Boy has a written directive that satisfies his personal standard of clarity. And bet he would be looking for any grammatical tic or mistake in punctuation that would allow him to throw it out.

[HockeyMom]

29. Chats

From going on chats I have learned that: the American public doesn't know the difference between a cortex and a cerebellum (9th grade biology), the difference between a coma and PVS, respirator as life support versus feeding tube as life support. It is very scary the level of ignorance of biology and law in this country. This is precisely what Bush and the religious right are counting on.

[Guckert]

10. Another great poll with blatantly skewed questions.

"The Zogby poll found that, if a person becomes incapacitated and has not expressed their preference for medical treatment, as in Terri's case, 43 percent say "the law presume that the person wants to live, even if the person is receiving food and water through a tube" while just 30 percent disagree."
TERRI EXPRESSED HER PREFERENCE, AS PER EVERY COURT IN THE FRICKING LAND AGREED!!!!
Did they ask if they were in a PVS state would they want to die LIKE TERRI DID???

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, should or should they not be denied food and water," the poll asked. A whopping 79 percent said the patient should not have food and water taken away while just 9 percent said yes.

A feeding tube IS CONSIDERED LIFE SUPPORT !!!!!
Did they ask if the means of death should be changed for the idiots that cannot understand science??? like Dr Kevorkian is in jail for.

[sundancekid]

51. my sentiments exactly -- as a testing professional these type of "loaded"

questions bias the answer, thus getting predetermined results -- I mean REALLY, who the hell would say to deny food/water when the stem of the question gives deliberately misleading and/or false information. I have written to Zogby and will file a formal complaint against this kind of shoddy work.

[scarletlib]

84. great. will we be able to see the complaint as filed on some sort

of website?

[Eloriel]

106. Uh, the courts simply DECLARED what her wishes were. Basically

they agreed with her HUSBAND -- they had no way to independently verify Terri's wishes. All they had was hearsay, an admissible form of hearsay, but hearsay nonetheless.

Or more accurately, it's my understanding that ONE court agreed with her husband and DECLARED on Terri's behalf that that's what she wanted. All the other courts merely took a look at how the precedural issues were handled and gave their imprimatur on those.

A feeding tube IS CONSIDERED LIFE SUPPORT !!!!! Did they ask if the means of death should be changed for the idiots that cannot understand science???

Another LEGAL decision, and one that some of us aren't totally comfortable with either. My objection is not a question of science. Some types of life support that are removed result in immediate death because the patient is that dependent on them for vital life functions on a minute-by-minute basis. Denial of food and wter is a much more active causation of death and no one can get around that. There are those of you who can refuse to see it, can be in denial about the CAUSE of death, etc. But it's actively causing death, not passively allowing it.

And let's not forget: Terri Schiavo was NOT terminally ill. That's not at issue either. Nor was she brain dead.

[sonicx]

108. Experts: Schiavo's Death Would Be Peaceful

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050322/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman_dying_1

NEW YORK - If Terri Schiavo dies from the removal of her feeding tube, her passing should be peaceful, experts say.

After all, she is in a persistent vegetative state without conscious awareness, they noted.

But studies show that even patients who can speak and who have chosen to stop eating and drinking generally don't complain of thirst or hunger, said Dr. Russell Portenoy, chair of palliative care at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York.

"It's as if the body has a protective mechanism at the end of life, such that loss of appetite and loss of thirst precede the dying process," he said.

...

Here's a thread were DUers talk about deaths of family members after not eating.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3321086

[drdon326]

116. Funny how MS put her in a HOSPICE.....

and not a nursing home.

[sandnsea]

11. And the spin begins

She did express her preference for medical treatment, so these polls are meaningless. I wondered how they were going to spin this around, damned pollsters.

[Demit]

12. "If a person has not expressed their preference...as in Terri's case"?

So that's how Zogby got the results they wanted, by misstating the facts. Just another day in Bushamerica.

[MissMarple]

13. Apparently she did express a preference, and a coma is better than PVS.

That conclusion is so bogus. And most Americans thought the government and shilling politicians should keep their opportunistic noses out of private, family matters.

[shockra]

14. I didn't think she should have been starved to death.

I don't think ANY living thing should ever be starved to death. But this is what happens when you outlaw euthanasia.

[Teaser]

17. She wasn't starved.

Do the research. First off, she was dehydrated.
Secondly, there was no "she" to dehydrate.

[UCLA Dem]

19. Its actually a very painless death.

Pain killers are given and the body just slowly shuts down. Its actually a very peaceful way to go.

I know this because my mom is getting her master's degree in gerontology and this becomes an issue quite often with elderly folks.

You should read up on it. It sounds worse than it actually is.

[UCLA Dem]

15. I'm sure they all want to be the first to pay for all this life support!

What about the people who are functioning members of society, but do not have adequate medical care.

Why keep people alive who have no hope of recovery?

Besides, with all the wars that our current republican overlords seem to want to fight, they are going to pay for it with what???

[drdon326]

16. No fooling...I'm with the 79% that said she should have been refeed.

and i'm not alone....except here.

[Modem Butterfly]

20. Well, not exactly

Most polls done show that you are, in fact, in the extreme minority. It's only this biased poll that shows the opposite of the others. Not that that has any bearing on your position.

[MollyStark]

102. Do you have links to those other polls?

I think this poll asked the right questions. No one I have talked to on either side of the political divide was comfortable with how she died.

[sonicx]

107. Here

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=6479

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=6471

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=6445

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewItem&itemID=6452

[sonicx]

49. actually, most americans still agree with the tube removal.

this poll is incorrectly worded.

[LibertyorDeath]

18. At this point i'm in favour of of Starving Zogby

[Gannon Man Date]

21. LOL

There's a few media whores that could be added to the queue.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

22. This is from a clearly biased source.

This is from Zogby's "In the Media" page where references to Zogby in the media are cited. If you look at who actually wrote the article, it says "(4/1/2005) - By Steven Ertelt, Life News." This is just a "pro-life" :puke: publication's interpretation of a poll done by Zogby. And it is complete bunk. The important point regarding the Terry Schiavo case is that court after court determined that she DID make her preference regarding medical treatment known and that she indicated she would not want to be kept alive with a feeding tube in the condition she was in.

The article cites other poll questions that have nothing to do with the Terry Schiavo case. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the ones who commissioned this poll.

[Gannon Man Date]

27. Thanks for pointing that out

I found it off of Zogby's main page, and didn't think that it was written by someone else.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

30. There was a Time poll cited elsewhere on the Zogby site.

It asked respondents *directly* about whether or not TS's feeding tube should be removed. The majority favored removing it... even among self-described evangelists, Republicans, and weekly churchgoers!

[alcuno]

28. Look at the wording. Who paid for the poll?

Yeah, Zogby did it, but who paid for it. Never do the questions mention no higher brain functioning.

[Zynx]

23. BS, hiding thread

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Majorities

The fact may be that the majority didn't want her starved, but the fact also remains that the majority also did not support the government interfering with a private, personal matter.

[AlCzervik]

25. Americans in favor of her death as long as they can pick the method.

Sorry America, can't have your cake and eat it too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. How About Those That

oppose abortion, the death penalty, euthanasia, and unjust wars?

[BlueEyedSon]

26. "Disabled"??? Not THAT shit again!!

[NYC]

31. Headline is wrong. She was not starved to death.

She was not starved to death. Absolutely not. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that. So, why the greatly misleading and wrong, totally false headline?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. She Was Dehydrated To Death...

The starvation was incidental...


The Terri Schiavo case was a transcendant moment in my life...

It pushed me off the fence on aborton , euthanasia, and the death penalty....


I now oppose all three....

[nonconformist]

67. You oppose euthanasia?

I'm intrigued.

Ever watch someone die a slow painful death? Would YOU want to die a slow painful death? If your dog was hit by a car, death was imminent yet he was still alive and in great pain... would you put him to sleep?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. Are We Talking About Dogs Or Humans?

When God wants us home he will call us home...


If a person is terminally ill and medicine is of no avail then I would support the removal of heroic measures to keep the person alive but I draw the line in actually assisting a person in his or her own demise...


I have a view of when life begins and when it ends and I don't expect everyone to share it nor do I expect everyone to share my opposition to the death penalty, abortion, and unjust wars...

But it works for me...

[sonicx]

72. Does you believe abortion should be illegal?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

74. It Should Be Safe, Legal, And Rare...

If a woman asked for my counsel I would ask her to think hard about terminating her pregnancy but ultimately it is a decision she has to make in accordance with her own conscience...

[sonicx]

79. well, then basically, you are still pro-choice.

i have no problem with your position.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. I Think There Are Things We Can Do To Reduce Abortion..

Encourage monogamy...

Encourage abstinence for people emotionally not ready for sex-minors...


Encourage the use of birth control....

Encourage adoption...

Encourage a "true culture of life" that values the dignity of all of us from our first breath to our last and every breath in between...

[Bouncy Ball]

89. I want to echo what sonic said.

No one is CRAZY about abortions. And I want them to be safe, legal, and rare, too and I'm pro-choice.

[nonconformist]

80. Fair enough. nt

[Eloriel]

109. Yeah, starvation would have taken longer n/t

[napi21]

32. I didn't get this Zogby poll.

I get most of theirs, but not this one, so I have no idea how they asked the questions. The qestion, and it's option answers make a BIG difference in the results of a poll.

I'd be interested to seeing that info.

[Animy44]

36. I didn't get this one either

I saw that big mouth, Pat Mahoney with Randall Terry, talking about a Zogby poll coming out that was in their favor. I think they were on CNN. Not sure.

[Individualist]

111. nor did I

Maybe they just sent it to fundies.

[Danmel]

33. Food and Water makes it sounds like she's sitting up and eating

And enjoying her food. "Food & Water" doesn't conjure up Jevity through a surgical incision in the belly. Plus, the question is loaded in describing the person in question as disabled and not in a coma rather than saying someone in a persistent vegetative state with a CT scan that shows a liquefied cerebral cortex and a flat EEG. When I think disabled, I think wheelchair, braces, blind, deaf. I don't think brain dead.

[candy331]

34. My cousin just mentioned yesterday that she was treated worse

than an animal because they starved her to death and they would take an animal to the pound for a quick death. I said that could have happened but since we have no euthanasia laws in this country so tube pulling is it.

[Patchuli]

93. Tell your cousin

that those "quick" deaths in the pound are awful deaths. They don't use medicine. That would be too expensive. I'll spare you what they do unless you really want to know.

[Jesus Saves]

35. Meanwhile - poll after poll showed

that a vast majority of Americans would not want to be kept alive in a PVS after the brain is gone.

[daleo]

38. It isn't really a good question, and is not the same as Shiavo

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, should or should they not be denied food and water," the poll asked. A whopping 79 percent said the patient should not have food and water taken away while just 9 percent said yes."

- in the Shiavo case she was being kept alive on life support, as a feeding tube is life support in the estimation of many people. Furthermore a feeding tube is nutrition, not food and water. The latter phrase has many rich connotations that a feeding tube doesn't deserve.

This whole issue will be under steady and intense spin for the next ten years, to convince the public that the Republicans were really responding to public opinion, not trying to thwart it.

[Mist]

39. The form of the question seems confusing (on purpose?)

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support..." Wasn't TS disabled by being in a PVS? Isn't a feeding tube life support? Just seems like a screwball poll.

[KittyWampus]

43. Who Paid For The Poll, Zogby? Fairer Questions? Terri DID Express

her wishes... TO HER HUSBAND!

And her parents said they didn't care WHAT Terri would have wanted.

[MollyStark]

104. Not everyone believes her husband

And that was not the question asked anyway. The qwuestion was very clear, Advanced directive or "err on the side of life".

[drdon326]

115. Yeah......he seems like such a great guy.

So he killed her cats....

So he didnt mention her wishes at the malpractice trial....

So he disrespected her family's wishes with the funeral...

yup...a real "prince" of a guy.:eyes:

[Azathoth]

45. Even the online polls over at FR used fairer language

I'm not sure what Zogby's agenda is, but his questions in that survey are so blatantly skewed that it seems he let his personal beliefs affect his professional judgment. The questions mischaracterize Schiavo's condition and prognosis, use highly suggestive and slanted language, omit important information, and present at least one outright falsehood when they claim that there was no "expressed preference for medical treatment" in Terri's case. It would be interesting to see who (if anyone) commissioned the survey.

[sonicx]

47. "denied food and water" this poll is incorrectly worded

the question should be along the lines of

"do you agree or disagree with the removal of the feeding tube?"

saying that Terri was 'denied' food is framing the question in favor of not removing the tube.

It would be like asking an abortion question that said...

"should an unborn child be denied life?

[mondo joe]

48. 1. She did express her wishes; 2. The feed tube IS life support

Please catch up on the facts of the case.

[Swamp Rat]

83. Yep, thank you!

[Pastiche423]

56. She was not fucking disabled!

It really chaps my hide (what little I have left), that so many in the media call/ed a body w/no sentient brain, disabled.

[lasttrip]

68. exactly! thank you. nt

[alphafemale]

64. "not in coma" huh? that makes it sound as if a person is conscious!

:wtf:

PVS is worse than coma.

Especially after 15 years.

[BrklynLiberal]

66. "a new Zogby poll with fairer questions" ????? HAH!

Why the hell are they STILL doing polls on this?

[Maine-ah]

73. i still feel it was a personal issue, and the government shouldn't have

butted their noses in. and it's still a personal matter regardless of what the american people think.

[leftofthedial]

75. zogby's questions are also selective in their detail

what about "if a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, but left verbal instructions with their spouse not to artifically prolong their life and courts have repeatedly ruled for 15 years that they should not be fed artificially, should or should they not be denied food and water

[onenote]

76. total BS poll

First of all,the headline makes it sound like they asked people directly whether they favored the decision to disconnect Schiavo's feed tube. That wasnt asked and, what was asked, was selective and misleading as to the facts of the Schiavo situation. For example, the question poses a situation where a person is "not in a coma" but does not state that the person has been diagnosed for 15 years as being in a persistent vegatative state, meaning that they have no conscious awareness. The question also postulates a situation where the person "is not being kept alive on life support when, by law,hydration and nutrition is "life support." And the question suggest that the person is being denied "food and water" when the more accurate statement would be describe the source of the "hydration and nutrition" as a tube inserted in the person's stomach.

Also, I can't even follow the first question: the law "presume" that the person wants to live? Not true. Maybe it was supposed to say the law "should" presume...But even that question is flawed since, in Schiavo's case, it was determined by a court that there was clear and convincing evidence that she had expressed a wish...

Bogus bogus bogus..

onenote

[GarySeven]

77. She WAS starved, but just the same ....

it was her choice to die and her choice was exercised through her husband's spousal rights - as it should be.

Unfortunately, the only method available to end her life, given her medical condition, was the withdrawal of nutrients. Unlike cutting off a switch to terminate a ventilator, it takes time for a nutrionally-starved body to shut down and, through organ failure, die. Although she did not suffer, her husband and parents did - through enduring the many days that it took for this process.

There should be a lawful means of euthanasia in this country. It is not unusual for people to self-euthanize in the face of a terminal condition; it's also not uncommon for people to be euthanized, either by family members or by caring physicians. This is, of course, technically "murder" and can only take place in secret. In this case, with a case under such a spotlight, such an act was impossible. This is an issue that should be addressed. There should be legal euthanasia available to families in such situations.

[democracyindanger]

82. It was dehydration, not starvation, but just the same...

you're dead on about euthanasia. Too bad Schiavo didn't take his wife to Oregon.

It bugs me when people say she was "starved" to death. It's simply not true. Death was from a lack of water, not food. Let's be accurate, unless people can come up with a really good reason to disregard the facts.

[GarySeven]

114. Well, to be totally accurate ...

it was a nutrient and water-rich liquid. Without it, the organs slowly - oh so slowly - lost function, bringing on cardiac arrest. She felt no pain, but it was traumatic for the body and certainly unpleasant for any family member who waited out those last hours. Euthanasia would have been far more humane but the "culture of life" crowd stands in the way.

[OilemFirchen]

85. Zogby's next poll

You've become pregnant. Would you prefer to:

a) Give birth to a happy, healthy, cute, cuddly, loving baby

b) Kill the miserable bastard by crushing his skull with a pair of rusty forceps and suffer permanent, persistent depression and breast cancer

BTW, it's pure cowardice for Zogby not to reveal who commissioned this poll. Shame the hell on him.

[DireStrike]

86. "AS IN TERRI'S CASE"?!?!??! WTF?

Terri HAD expressed her preference. MANY, MANY COURTS FOUND THIS.

[DireStrike]

88. Ok, I finally get it after reading through the thread

And carefully rereading the article.

Zogby's poll was not nearly as biased as the article makes it seem. The article is written by a rabid christofascist who took things far out of context.

[Bouncy Ball]

87. "....and not being kept alive on life support..."

In Terri's case (God, am I ACTUALLY posting about this again?), that feeding tube was most definitely life support. Could she feed herself? Ok, then.

So his question, as worded about Terri, is inaccurate. It doesn't describe HER situation.

[bush_is_wacko]

90. Let them walk all over this one. That poll is very similar to the CBS

poll that said the opposite. Do you think this could be fundie baiting? Seems to me THIS poll is exactly the opposite of the truth and could be used to get thugs to step all over themselves running to create new bills and laws which the American public would be very angry about. What the heck is going on in this country? There seem to be dueling factions everywhere I turn. If the thugs support those religious nut cases that protested in front of Schiavo's Hospice they are going to get their asses kicked by those conservatives that have been through this ordeal. Believe me, One time going through this is all it takes to turn a person into a believer of death with dignity! I have been through it four times! There is no way you can tell me this is murder or uncompassionate! This is what old animals do to themselves when they are ready to die. It is also what American Indians used to do and what tribes who live outside societal bounds STILL do to themselves when they are old and feeble.

Humans USED to understand death. They used to celebrate the life of their loved one and KNOW when it was time to let them go. How the hell have people become so neurotic, depressed, and delusional? Death is NORMAL and it is the end result of EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH!

[jab105]

91. The ONLY reason for these results is because the MSM slanted this story

I'm so fucking pissed, every single person I talked to recited practically word for word the republican talking points...because the MSM forcefed it to them for weeks!!!

Once you point out the truth, then they understand...then they agree that the right thing happened...

I'm probably more pissed at the democrats than anyone...they had this issue, they were on the right side, they were on the side of the LAW, of truth...and they did nothing...

My fucking cat has more guts than the bunch of them!!

[beyurslf]

110. But she had expressed her wishes....

She just didn't have a written directive.... And she was in her late 20's when this happened. How many of us as written directives on end of life care at 25?

[demgrrrll]

112. Most people when asked say they do not want extraordinary measures

taken if there is no hope of recovery. Most people that I talk with about these issues think it is common sense not to want to be kept alive by machines if there is absolutely no hope for recovery. The semantics of the question, the hot button, is the denial or decision to "deny" the person of food and water. Withdraw might be a better word. To the best of my knowledge comfort measures are always available to the person in question and the comfort aspect of care is usually spelled out in a living will. If the question had been worded with that addition perhaps the respondent, knowing that the person would not be uncomfortable would have answered the question in a different way. One of the hardest decisions that people have to make is feeding and hydration for the person who has no hope of recovery.
A do not resuscitate order means there will not be CPR and that can be hard for the family as well. It is never ever easy to make these decisions even if someone has a 20 page document with all the bells and whistles. The Republicans using this issue as a political football is a travesty and an abomination.