Is "pro-abortion" a term used by most DUers?

[CornField]

I didn't think it was... but I thought I'd check.

[Heddi]

1. WEll, not being one to cast aspersions on another DU'er

nor will I attempt to skirt the rules and slyly call someone a Repub, Freeper, whatever,

I have NEVER in my instances of being active on DU or in the Pro-CHOICE community hear the term "Pro-Abortion" spoken by anyone who wasn't Anti-Choice and/or Anti-Women.

You might want to edit the thread out of your post, though, or else this will get locked for 'calling out'

[CornField]

3. Agreed.

It's been edited.

[Misunderestimator]

2. thanks for the heads up, actually.

[Avalux]

4. That post is malignant -

Abortion is legal - PERIOD. I will fight to make sure that right is never taken away. It shouldn't even be a political issue.

[sui generis]

5. eh - you can be a liberal and against abortion

plus, in my teutonic mind I frequently have to remember to say "pro-choice" when I'm thinking "pro-abortion". It doesn't have any stigma in my thinking, but I realize that it's not as accepted to use it as a spoken/written term.

On edit: I'm not anti-abortion!

[BrklynLiberal]

6. I don't think so. I think it is term used by pro-forced birthers in a

negative way to describe people who would describe ourselves as pro-choice or pro-womens' rights. I doubt anyone would describe themselves as "Pro-abortion" as if it was something that someone would opt for as a choice they would make easily.
It is again, one of those "reframing" things that the Repukes have done to make certain beliefs sound bad, like they have done to "liberal", and many other Democratic and Progressive principles.

[sui generis]

10. I see your point but I am just as prone to say pro-abortion

without intending anything at all. It's because I don't think in all the sugary PC wrappers we use to talk to others with.

I'm not defending "re-framers" by any means though; just slow to attack.

[JerseygirlCT]

17. Well, there really is a distinction

I think most DUers are "pro-choice" -- not meaning they think everyone ought to run out and have an abortion, but meaning that they feel each woman is in the best position to make private medical decisions herself for herself.

"Pro-abortion" implies one thinks abortions are great things and, hey, everyone should do it!

You could call me "pro-abortion *rights*" if you like, but "pro-abortion" would not be at all accurate.

[sui generis]

58. good point - I just use shorthand in my head

yes, sometimes the voices in there are loud :evilgrin:

I suppose the other difference is that I make an effort to be PC regardless. I suppose if I got into a tussle with a DU person over my opinions on abortion and accidentally used the term "pro-abortion" instead of "pro-abortion rights" I would take the time to refine my statement.

Since the topic really doesn't concern me personally, I've never gotten terribly educated on every miniscule argument, but my gut feeling is that first trimester abortions are acceptable, with a much higher level of scrutiny required for later term abortions. Quite frankly, I'm not happy with the thought that you could abort a fetus that in any other situation would qualify as a preemie, which rules out the first trimester plus some margin.

I really don't think that there are bajillions of abortions per capita nor that there would/will be anyway; probably the most important thing a woman needs from society at that point is enough unbiased information to make a decision she can live with, and support for her decision when she makes it.

-sui

[JerseygirlCT]

61. I think that's it

Personally, abortion isn't a choice I think I would make. (I must qualify that, because truly one never knows what curves life will throw). However, it's just that personal choice that makes me so emphatically pro-choice. No one, but no one, is in a better position to make that decision than am I.

I think women ought to have more options. Let's make life financially and medically more manageable, and I'll bet a good number of abortions would be eliminated -- because the woman in question would have other options that she would prefer.

But I truly bristle when I hear (generally male) legislators and "religious" figures attempt to limit women's choices. Like an abortion is something they'll ever have to deal with. Makes for a very easy, and very illegitmate position, imho.

I too try to use language that won't be offensive, but I'm not going to pound someone for missing that, no worries! I'm sure I miss the boat in that way in other areas - this happens to be one that really does concern me!

[Protagoras]

62. "everyone ought to run out"?

bleh...

how about PRO-DECISION? I'm PRO whatever a woman decides to do with her own body. I support the choice, yes. But I also support the decision...I don't say "It's wrong but.." I don't think it is wrong. I think it's a tough choice because of lots of conflicting social and religious messages...but I don't think it's wrong. And when it is made (after the choice) I'm still 100% supportive.

So can we add Pro-Decision to the lexicon?

[TheWraith]

32. Uh...

"It is again, one of those "reframing" things that the Repukes have done to make certain beliefs sound bad,"

Like 'pro-forced-birth'? Decrying that sort of thing cuts both ways. FYI.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. I LOVE abortions on toast

it's pizza

[Heddi]

9. They look like little roma tomatoes

so much so, that after my weekly abortions, I go out and have a big old plate of spaghetti and pesto.

As it stands, I'm currently taking fertility medicine just so I can get pregnant JUST SO I CAN HAVE AN ABORTION.

Last week, for instance, I found out that I was 8 months and 28 days pregnant with SEVEN LITTLE BABIES and I just popped in the car, latte and granola in hand, birkenstocks on my feet, and went down to Planned Parenthood where they aborted ALL SEVEN RIGHT IN THE LOBBY! It was great! They even PAID me to do it, and I get referrals for all the women I convince to have abortions.

After I aborted those seven little inconveniences, I went out, had my hair done, and had wonton sex with half the town's Migrant Worker population. I really hope I get pregnant again today. I can't WAIT to have another abortion

Anyone wanna join me> I'll treat for lunch afterwards!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Yeah..we can drive thru an "abortion on demand" place for em

[Heddi]

15. I got stirrups installed next to my steering wheel

JUST so I can be prepared for drive-thru's. Maybe they'll sell milk-shakes too.

mmm.m..gravy and fries.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Then we can go get drunk and celebrate

[Heddi]

27. Sorry...I only drink when I'm pregant

I mean, gotta deform 'em as early as possible, right?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. OK maybe we can smoke some crack on the way

[ultraist]

51. This issue has been settled. MEN are going to be chemically castrated

Until they marry. Did you miss that thread?

Hey, what's a little hit for the team. They can wait to fulfill their sexual desires until they are married for the good of the cause, right?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. Sorry I can't join you! I had a hysterectomy back in

1990, and that makes all this moot! LOLOLOL! Your sarcasm is RIGHT ON!

Can I still come for lunch? Even sterilized women have to eat, you know!

:hi:

[Heddi]

25. only if I can implant a uterus in you JUST SO

you can get pregant and we can have a double-date abortion. I think they offer 25% off if you bring a friend.

Lunch is ON ME, Sister!!!!!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

29. LOLOLOLOL! Thanks, but I'll pass.....

WAAAAAY too old for this hoo-haaa! (I'm 61, no ovaries either!!) But I'll still come for lunch...Thanks, Sister!

:toast:

[TheWraith]

34. I'm sorry, but when did this become a subject of humor?

I was under the impression that the exercising of abortion rights was considered a solemn, difficult, and highly personal choice, and was supposed to be treated with dignity and respect. No offence intended, and I can certainly understand mocking the freepers, but it strikes me that this would be highly offensive even to many people on our side. If somebody else did it, particularly a man, there would be line of people calling him a freeper, fundie, and worse things from here to Tuesday.

[Heddi]

36. Because if I don't laugh about it, I'll cry and never stop

I suppose I find humour in the illogical stereotypes that not just Republicans, but sadly MANY Du'ers make about women who have had abortions or who support the right to abortion:

That abortion is done on a whim
That it's done solely because of an inconvenience to the mother
That the woman is a wonton sex addict with no concern for her personal health
That the woman has no thoughts about having an abortion and sees it as
nothing more than getting a perm or ordering a latte
That women that are PRO-CHOICE are really PRO ABORTION

ANd yes, you're right--it would be different if a man were to make those comments because *HE* cannot get pregnant. HE cannot have an abortion. HE will never have to fear his right of personal reproductive freedom taken away as millions of women have to fear every single day.

Why are black comics allowed to say things about other blacks, but if a white person were to say the same things, they'd be called a racist

Why can homosexuals say certain things about homosexuals but a straight saying those things would be called a bigot or homophobe?

Because that's the way it is.

I would hope that people would be more offended by the few threads in GD (started by male posters, of course) that encourage us to RESTRICT I mean "compromise" on the issue of abortion---to whittle away our rights one week of viability at a time---to force us into longer and longer waiting periods---to frame it as an issue of "states rights" and "what about the innocent babies who have no say in their fate?"

THAT is much more troubling than an obviously fictitious account of the stereotypical view of Pro-Abortion Liberal Baby Hating Abortion Addict.

And this thread is about being PRO-Abortion. I framed it in a way that would illustrate, through absurdity, what someone who really was PRO-ABORTION must be like. I mean, pro-abortion (as used by those who use that term) indicates that not only is someone for abortion RIGHTS< but that they prefer abortion to all other options--that abortion must be chosen should pregnancy occur. Same as pro-life. They believe that abortion is NEVER an option, that abortion must NEVER be chosen.

[Coexist]

49. I like your style, Heddi

Nice responses.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. A-FUCKING-MEN!

[CornField]

56. Thank you, Heddi!

Isn't it sad that it must be explained even here on the DU forums?

[Bridget Burke]

59. Gallows humor.

And we get tired of the endless, divisive threads about abortion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

31. That's ok California Peggy. the vast majority of people involved in this

debate don't have uteruses either...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

40. Thank you! The voice of rationality, at last... nt

[uppityperson]

8. No. Neither is "pro-bush"

[Heddi]

11. I posted this in another thread:

Who's Pro-Abortion??


You know, I've NEVER known ANYONE who has gotten ahold of a woman who was pregnant, held her down, and FORCED her to have an abortion.

I've never seen ANYONE stand outside an OB/GYN clinic with signs "ABORT THAT FETUS!", or rough-handling women who have choosen birth over abortion.

I've never seen anyone hand out phamphlets about what a great choice abortion is for women who don't want one.

I'd really like to know what Pro-Abortion is to you...perhaps some underground sect that goes about performing abortions on pregnant women while they sleep or something....

Do tell....do tell....

Oh..the rights of the "innocent" over personal rights. Because a fetus is Innocent, a woman inherently isn't?

Interesting wording you have there, SIR

[BrklynLiberal]

12. VERY well said!!

:thumbsup:

[housewolf]

13. Absolutely not...

The term "Pro-abortion" is a right-wing distortion of a pro-choice stance. VERY few people are actually "pro-abortion," a term that connotes that someone is out there talking, advocating and recommending that women have abortions.

Dems and lefties use the term "Pro-Choice" because it accurately connotes the position most Dems & lefties hold.

We also do not use the term "pro-life." It is another right-wing distortions. We use the term "anti-abortion" because that term more accurately connotes that position.

[Mandate My Ass]

16. Wow, I can't believe I missed that thread

But then again I was busy breaking the arms of women who wanted to stay pregnant.

[Heddi]

19. Hey! Was that you who was breaking arms?

Sorry I didn't say hello... I was too busy tying those "breeders" down to a gurney to notice.

Nice to see that Pro-Abortion DU'ers know how to get the job done!

[Mandate My Ass]

24. Wish I could stay and chat but

I'm headed over to the ob/gyn's office with a load of toasters. Gotta make my quota for the month or else they'll take my honorary title "bitchin' baby butcher" and give it to one of my rivals.

[Heddi]

26. Load of toasters--ha!

I personally aborted 14873264 babies this month from MY OWN UTERUS.

I hope to make the Guiness Book of World Records.

Or hopefully just a cold guiness will do....

[onehandle]

18. No f*cking way! It's a right-wing tag.

They'd LOVE it if the left used this. Make their mudslinging easier.

[Stop_the_War]

20. PRO-CHOICE n/t

[niyad]

21. absolutely not--the proper terms are "pro-choice" and "anti-choice"

the anti-choicers use that term as a shorthand emotional tag to frame the debate in THEIR ignorant, lie-laden terms.

[China_cat]

30. Good grief NO

I don't know anybody who is 'pro-abortion'.

Pro-choice, yes. Which encompasses the choice not to have an abortion. Which boils down to nobody deciding but the person(s) involved and their doctor.

[B Calm]

33. Thats a term right-wing nut cases use for people who

support a womans right to a safe, legal and RARE abortion.

[humanriteswritlarge]

35. The term is "pro-choice"

If you don't want to have an abortion, don't have one. If you are a man, you don't have anything to say about it.

[donheld]

37. I am not "pro-abortion" i am pro-choice

there is a vast difference.

[applegrove]

38. One word: Choice!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. This is an odd question Cornfield. I have never known anyone to

say they were pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. I believe that every woman has the Right to make that decision herself.

[Heddi]

42. There was a poster on another thread

who called HIMself a liberal democrat, but was worried about the Pro-Abortion groups and their agenda or some other such nonsensical code-words

[housewolf]

43. I've never heard anyone say they are pro-abortion either...

but I've heard plenty of people on both the right AND the left use the term "pro-abortion" in place of "pro-choice." "Pro-abortion" is a right wing distortion that we should NEVER let anyone get away with.

[countryjake]

44. How old are you people?

Hell, I've got an old picket sign lying around here somewhere; it says in big red letters, "ABORTION NOW!"; how do you think women won the right to control their own bodies in the first place? Sure, it was a different time, but the struggle was exactly the same...people trying to demonize abortion in order to restrict women's rights. Same thing with birth control..."Oooohhhh I might swoon! Women actually demanding the right to turn down the gifts their men have to give!"

Sensible matters in regards to women's healthcare & reproductive freedom have no place for viewing progressive methods as either evil or wrong. Abortion was a good thing for women to have free & legal access to 35 years ago & the same is true today. Equality is not something to be ashamed of!

[ultraist]

50. NOW stands for National Organization of Women

It is not a demand for women to have abortions. Check their website and the history of their involvement in the pro choice movement. They use signs now that say, "Keep abortion LEGAL."

[countryjake]

57. I'm well aware of that organization...

however, I was never a member & the demonstrations in which I carried my sign were not NOW demos, exclusively. That line was a rallying call..."whatd'ya want?"...all across this country, before Roe vs. Wade. The women who struggled for that right were not afraid to demand, in no uncertain terms, what was necessary. The fight was never a matter of right vs. left or Reps vs. Dems, we burned our bras & threw off the chains because it was time for the oppression of women to end. It was a clear message...equality for women or else. You can't pussy-foot around, parsing words, tip-toe around meanings & express doubts of what women need to share equal rights in this world. Reproductive freedoms have no qualifying elements; you either have them or you don't.

[countryjake]

41. What & why are you asking?

I've been arguing on the side of equality for women all of my life & I have most certainly used the term pro-abortion, because that is what I am! Yup, I've had 'em; I'm not ashamed to say there's nothing wrong with 'em; & I absolutely refuse to allow anyone deem me a criminal element in this country because I chose not to give birth.

[ultraist]

52. The RWers have hijacked that term, the issue is of CHOICE

Abortion should not be outlawed so that women are denied their civil liberty of Right to Privacy. They should be allowed a choice and not have the state dictate to them or take control over their bodies.

It's not always the best option for all women to have an abortion. Some are more comfortable with adoption or keeping it. Why push ONE choice rather than FREE WILL?

[Arkana]

45. Uh, no

I use "anti-choice" and "pro-choice" to describe the two factions--it shows the true division between the intolerant and the tolerant.

[kixot]

46. Oh, GAWD no!!

Jeez.

[4_Legs_Good]

47. Nope, I use pro-choice, pro-life and anti-choice

Pro-choice for people who want to keep abortion safe and legal

Pro-life for people who want to keep abortion safe and legal but who personally object to it as part of their personal belief system

Anti-choice for people who want to force their views on other people wrt reproductive rights.

david

[RevolutionaryActs]

48. Let me say this simply: Being pro-choice does not mean you're pro-abortion

No one is "pro-abortion".

[BlueInRed]

54. nope, pro-choice

I don't know anyone running around encouraging pregnant ladies to get abortions, which is what the term pro-abortion implies.

[Trajan]

55. Pro FREEDOM ......

Nuff said ....

[Bridget Burke]

60. No.

Most prefer pro-choice.

And most prefer anti-choice to pro-life, unless the proponents are also against capital punishment & war.

[Vogon_Glory]

63. I Call Myself Pro-Choice

I consider myself to be pro-choice. I support the right of sexually-active men and women to have access to contraception and reproductive health care and I support a woman's right to have access to abortion if she so chooses.

I also support a woman's right to bring the fetus to term and support her right to have access to pre-natal health care and nutrition programs.

Having said that, I would prefer that abortion be used only as a last resort, and that both men and women would take more pains in their own personal activities to see to it that abortion remains safe, legal--but rare.

[Blue_Roses]

64. I don't think there is one person who can say they are "pro-abortion"

It's "pro-choice". The right tries to label us as "pro-abortion" because we SUPPORT the right to choose, however, being for choice doesn't necessarily mean one is FOR abortion. The two words are definitely not one in the same:)