The answer to how much money Bev Harris really made thanks to Randi Rhodes

[Kelvin Mace]

Since Skinner is concerned about info being posted here, I will not post the document I have on DU. Skinner doesn't need any headaches.

So, if you PM me with your email address I will email you a URL to the site so you can read the document for yourself.

I will not post it on DU and do not want anyone else to post it on DU. If you want the URL, PM me.

Bev Harris has claimed that only $23,500 was raised during the Randi Rhodes' show on 11/5:

We received about $23,500 tagged to the Randi Rhodes show; there may have been more that we could not identify as such. At about the same time, we were also on several other major broadcast outlets (NBC, CNN, Art Bell, Alex Jones, NPR, Digital Village, and on at least a hundred more shows), most of which also did fund raising.

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/73/1768.html

(Note, Bev scrubs incriminating information from her site on a regular basis. This entry will probably be scrubbed as well so I have archived it here:)

http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/AAR.html

I have obtained a document from my source inside bbv.org which proves BEYOND ALL DOUBT that Bev is lying.

PLEASE SEE CORRECTION BELOW!

This document is an email from Bev's credit card provider discussing the server problems Bev had because of the CRUSH of donors. The time frame in question is a single 90 minute time period from 3:30 to 5:00 on Friday, 11/5.

In that time Bev raised $176,922.36.

That's right, Bev Harris's little project received almost $177,000 in JUST NINETY MINUTES.

Since Randi repeated the appeal several times on her show the following week, there is no question that Bev's claim of $23,500 is a complete, bald-faced LIE!

Now, Bev left herself an "out", but it requires us all to be complete morons to believe the excuse she will make.


..."there may have been more that we could not identify as such."

She will claim she couldn't identify money that came in during Randi Rhodes' appeal, money flooding in by the bushel, as coming from Randi.

The document shows that donations from California ALONE came to $40,644.32.

Let me repeat this: In the space of 90 minutes Bev Harris received $40K in donations JUST from California, yet she claims Randi only netted her $23,500.

Bev Harris USED DU, USED Randi, USED Andy and smeared ANYONE who dared question her.

Any questions?

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org


CORRECTION: The doc refers to the 90 minute period as causing much trouble. I made an error in stating that all this money came in during that 90 minutes. The time of the amount was 8:30 PM that night, so the time frame is 3:30 - 8:30. rather than altering my post I am correcting it here. I wouldn't want t be accused of scrubbing my own post. Please replace "90 minutes" with "five hours"

David.

[tjdee]

1. Um, that's really bad. What can happen at this point?

Anything?

Or is everyone just screwed?

[Kelvin Mace]

3. Well, lying about how much money she raised is unethical

but I don't think actionable.

Your lawyer may vary.

The point is, we now know without doubt we were lied to.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[walldude]

5. We can be a little more careful next time..

It was so hard not to give money after the "election". It's not the first time I've been grifted, and probably not the last..

[Lone Pawn]

2. Yeah. Of course she did.

I do recall back when posting anything critical about her meant her legions would fall upon you like harpies from Hell. I wonder where they're all at now?

[Kelvin Mace]

4. Well, I would post the web site

but you know where they all are. Though I think that when this little bombshell hits, there will be no joy in BevTown.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Cocoa]

6. they're still here

at least two of them have changed their user names.

[Stephanie]

9. they've all seen the light!

[foreigncorrespondent]

60. Most are torn!

We were looking for the smallest little sign during a time of sorrow, and Bev gave us the sign we wanted to see.

While I pretty much stayed quiet most of the time, there were times in the past I did defend Bev, and that is something I truly regret doing.

We all learn from the mistakes we make in life. And the whole Bev Harris stuff has been a big learning ground for us all.

[jdj]

72. well, a lot of us fell for this.

I still have the Vanity Fair that did a write up on her in either March or April of last year.

I've a good mind to call them and ask them to do a follow up, since it's been almost exactly a year since the last story.

Not everyone that defended Bev is a bad guy...alot of good people got burned and had to learn the hard way...David Allen, Eloriel, Andy Stephenson, etc etc.

[Hugin]

7. A dark hour (or so)...

In the annals of Election Reform.

You suppose squashing the evidence by settling
on the whistle blower lawsuit was part of the
plan too?

[Kelvin Mace]

8. No, I wish

I could ascribe it to that. The answer is simple jealousy and greed.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Tansy_Gold]

10. I am so sorry to hear this

But I am not surprised.

I think there were a lot of people who really wanted someone, anyone, to take up the sword of justice when those who SHOULD have done so 4+ years ago didn't. I don't blame anyone for giving, and I don't blame anyone who facilitated, such as Randi Rhodes. But I do blame some of those at the very top of the power chain -- people with initials like AGJr, TMcA, even JFK -- who abdicated their responsibility to fight for the voting rights of ALL Americans between Nov. 2000 and January 2005.

They left a big void; I'm not surprised someone stepped into that void and filled it with someone else's money.

[SmokingJacket]

51. You're exactly right.

Bev was the only person really *screeching* about BBV at the time; I gave $$, so did lots of people who didn't know where else to go to fix the problem.

But **SHE** should not have one of only a few people -- and the most vocal of them -- on top of it. Yes, big name Dems should have been all over it.

NOW Teresa is convinced!!! Argh!

[Kelvin Mace]

53. When I read Teresa's comments

Han Solo's line from Empire Strikes Back popped into my head.

"Thank you professor, I'm glad you're here to tell me these things.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[jdj]

74. isn't that the damn gospel truth.

thank you tansy gold.

And by the way, the abdication is still going on.

No one has really taken up the mantle. I was so gratified to hear Teresa Heinz Kerry mention it a couple of days ago, the fact that she's talking about it is encouraging, however the powers that be are too skeered to get smeared as conspiracy theorists to do or say a damn thing.

[Skidmore]

11. So if she extorted people, why isn't any pressing charges?

[Kelvin Mace]

15. "Extorted"

I am at a loss as to how she would be guilty of extortion. She did not coerce anyone with menace to donate money, she solicitied donations.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Skidmore]

18. Okay, wrong word. Did she not misuse the monies sent to her?

Did she use them for anything she said she was using them for? The implication is that she did something criminal. My question is if that is so, why is everyone just griping and no one pressing charges or suing her?

[Kelvin Mace]

20. If you read what I said

I accused her of lying and using people. Unfortunately, this is not a criminal offense. She appears to be spending the money for the reason claimed, but that would require and audit to determine.

The point of the post was to put an end once and for all to the whining from Bev and her crew that she tells the truth.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[John BigBootay]

40. Wait-- I'm not clear on something--

Did Bev Harris promise something she is NOW NOT DOING? In other words, she said she was going to use the money to investigate in a "non-partisan way" the issue of voter fraud. Is she still investigating?

Your above post implies that in addition to spending a large quantity of time posting on DU, she is in fact still pursuing her investigations.

If this is so (I almost hate to say this)-- what's the problem?

I see that you take issue in her alleged lie about how much money was raised-- but until we see an actual audit, this is a case of he-said / she-said.

Am I wrong? Just trying to get the 411 here.

[Kelvin Mace]

45. As I have said in my post

I do not know if she has defrauded anyone and only an audit would prove this one way of the other. There is a difference between doing something and appearing to do something. Appearing to do something is all that's required to defend against a charge of fraud. But it doesn't help our cause much.

The problem is Bev lied about the money she raised, she lied about fellow activists and that makes you wonder what else she lied about.

Unethical is not illegal, but it doesn't make the victim happy.

Bev has got on this board and repeatedly accused me, Andy, Eloriel, Roxanne, and MANY, MANY other people of illegal and/or unethical actions. This document demonstrates her integrity is sorely lacking which provides important context to her accusations.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[John BigBootay]

46. Hmmm. Honestly-- I don't know what to make of this issue n/t

[ohio_liberal]

48. How about this then...

Apparently BBV.org paid for a load of FOIA documents and never bothered to pick them up. That stinks of misadministration at the least. Then, we have stories of the org not filing required quarterly reports with the IRS, not depositing payroll taxes as required, not paying unemployment taxes in a timely matter, not sending out W-2s as required, etc. etc. It's FUBAR, big time.

[Kelvin Mace]

49. Did you read the links in the first post of this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=340188&mesg_id=340188

This is a summary of what this woman has done to people and how she behaved.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[John BigBootay]

71. What I meant is that her behavior seems to really defy reason...

Her behavior is truly disappointing.

But it's also very confusing. One would think that people with a common goal would operate in a more amicable fashion.

I was not aware of any of this bad behavior until you pointed me to it.

Ultimately, I am a bit perplexed. Maybe she's just a Machiavellian ass-hat who wants money and fame??? But the kind of work she engages in seems to be a screwy way to achieve that.

Just odd...

[ohio_liberal]

26. David

They keep saying that nobody asked Randi Rhodes, et al, to fundraise for BBV.org. Did all of these radio people just take it upon themselves to solicit donations?

[Kelvin Mace]

32. Yeah, if you read what Bev said you can tell

it was vetted by lawyers with an eye to the fraud statutes.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

34. So the answer

to any and all questions about fundraising and where the money is spent will probably continue to be answered with "We didn't ask anyone to fundraise for us".

[Kelvin Mace]

36. And when there is a "gap" in the books

it will be blamed on Andy.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

39. Yeah I see that coming

Hope Andy has himself covered.

[datasuspect]

65. that's called wire fraud

and is a federal offense . . .

just saying . . .

[Kelvin Mace]

67. Only if it can be shown

that she has not used the money for what she claimed she was raising it for. Also, as I pointed out her "explanation" of the amounts raised have enough weasel words in it to cover her ass.

Lying about the amount and using people ain't illegal sad to say.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[datasuspect]

92. i can understand that

but soliciting funds under the auspices of a non-profit (or any other business) and using those proceeds for the exclusive purpose of personal enrichment goes beyond the unethical.

it's a crime.

[jdj]

76. what about mail fraud?

does e-mail/pay pal qualify? Remember "The Firm", that Tom Cruise movie where he takes down his firm because of overcharging people through the mail? I bet some people sent donations in through the mail. Just brainstorming here.

I'm also thinking racketeering.
edit: I don't know if a non-profit can be accused of that, but a non-profit could lose it's status for fraud.

[Kelvin Mace]

80. Again, you must prove criminal intent

Since she has ostensibly spent the money on projects she mentioned when raising the money, she is in the clear. I am not a lawyer, but I've paid quite a few.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

93. Yeah let's leave the word "fraud" out of it right now

My understanding is that there is one reported instance in which Bev Harris deposited monies intended for the 501(c)(3) into her own personal account. Just supposing this is true, then we can assume that the organization could face at the very least intermediate sanctions by the IRS concerning transactions between an applicable tax-exempt organization and certain individuals and entities designated "disqualified persons", meaning those with substantial influence.

[minerva50]

12. I didn't "tag" my donation

but I certainly gave it in response to hearing about it from Randi Rhodes and probably used a link from this site to get to hers. Counting only "tagged" donations is deceptive.

[John BigBootay]

13. What is Bev Harris doing with her time these days?

Sipping Pina Coladas on the beach in Costa Rica?

Or is she pursuing her investigations and so forth as promised?

Or something else?

[Kelvin Mace]

16. Best I can tell,

posting under an assumed name trying to smear her critics.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=340188&mesg_id=340188

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[jdots]

99. just what we need predators & parasites

[crispini]

14. Whoa. That's quite interesting.

And the whole thing is very sad. :(

[Red State Rebel]

17. I hate to be sorry that I gave to any cause, but I am with this one.

I hate a situation like this because it will make me more cynical about giving.

[Kelvin Mace]

21. Just be more careful

It is hard, I know.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[AgadorSparticus]

19. thanks for letting us know. i'm always sad to see such opportunistic

cretins scouring on people's emotional vulnerabilities as such. the good thing is knowing that one day, karma will catch up with her. that won't bring back my $100, but that's ok. we live and learn.

[Rex]

22. So Bev was just in it for the money?

Say it ain't so! :-( :-( :-(

[Boredtodeath]

23. She's STILL just in it for the money

and camera time.

[Kelvin Mace]

28. I don't know

all I know is that she lied to us about how much she raised. Why she lied is open for discussion.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Rex]

68. So was she actually authentic in any way?

Was she a plant by the right? We are NEVER going to have fair elections again.

[Kelvin Mace]

70. Nah

she wasn't a plant, just a massive ego.

And don't give up the fight so easily. There are still lots of folks out there actually fighting BBV.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[yowzayowzayowza]

24. Ug.

Just, ug.

[Kelvin Mace]

103. You said a mouthful

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[yankeedem]

25. Seems that BH real profession

Is posting to message boards with other pseudonyms. She sure does respond quick for someone who is working tirelessly.

Seems to me someone with a real life would leave Andy alone, whether he is right or wrong. I don't remember seeing an activist fighting with former employees in public forums, is this a usual practice?

[NC Beach Girl]

29. In Bev's case...

From what I've read of her old posts, it is HER usual practice. ;)

I, too, wonder how someone who is so busy saving democracy has the time to make up fake names on DU and post all day long for 2 days straight to heap some more abuse and lies on Andy, David, and DU in general....and then she orders her board member/ head sycophant to continue the job once she is banned (yet again).

Funds must be getting tight over there if they are this desperate and have so much free time on their hands.

[Kelvin Mace]

31. That's my take

Funds must be getting tight over there if they are this desperate and have so much free time on their hands.

The cash flow has slowed to a trickle and she's knows that what she has will run out soon.

The part I loved was her demanding that I PROVE to her I was actually doing something here in NC.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ncrainbowgrrl]

109. This NC person thanks you for all of your work!

:yourock:

[Kelvin Mace]

30. You are correct

She just couldn't stay away. The fact that folks like Andy and I continue to breathe really IRKS her.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Awsi Dooger]

27. Bev has many admirable qualities as a scammer

Too many of my Vegas friends find one lowlife opportunity and blow it within days or even hours, netting almost nothing. For instance, during all this rain a few of them were buying every cheap umbrella at the 99 Cents Only store and peddling them for 10 bucks apiece between Caesar's and Bellagio. They made a few thousand but suddenly the cops showed up and it ended pronto.

Bev had just enough patience and finesse, at least on DU. She even posted in the Lounge for a while instead of flailing for cash in the first few posts. I even remember one thread she started in the Lounge, listing literally hundreds of DU user names and asking if they were guys or gals, with her guess included alongside the user name. You could see the posters warming up to her.

The list immediately struck me as strange because the names she used were DUers who posted regularly in both the Lounge and the heated political forums. The Lounge-only posters were virtually non-existent. I'm convinced that was intentional and she was trying to set up a down-the-road syphon system from the DUers who were most likely to be outraged by BBV fraud.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. The longer this goes on

the more I learn little tidbits like this.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[troubleinwinter]

56. Here's a tidbit.

I had become irritated about her soliciting a donation of a scanner quite some time ago. I thought the organization should just damned well buy one. Time went by and I wrote a very simple note asking about when FOIA docs might be posted.

I got a response about a month ago. When I got the email, I was struck by the length of explanations and excuses... I thought she seemed like a person either on drugs or just unhinged.

As far as I can tell, no FOIA docs are on the site even yet.

Here is the long answer to a simple question from someone she does not know:
..................

Hi, XXXX,

Regarding publishing the FOIA docs on the Internet: It became a bit like "the
neckbone is connected to the backbone which is connected to the thigh-bone
which is connected to the leg-bone..."

We had a temporary office. Its high-speed connection didn't work. So I leased a
permanent office. It took 5 days to get Qwest to come install the lines. The
office came with a phone routing box. Qwest wouldn't route that and we had to
have another company come route the Internet lines. That took five days. When
they came out, they routed the cables to the wrong line. They were such dipwads
that we contracted with someone else to properly route the cables. That done,
we brought in the guy to hook up the network. He has that hooked up, and the
scanner will connect directly into the network so we can upload efficiently.

This has been like fingernails on a blackboard -- I was so eager to do this, and
this stuff was not only time consuming, but boring and aggravating. We are now
in Florida working on an investigation and meeting with activists. During the
time we are out of town, the scanner is supposed be be networked in and tested.

It is an expensive piece of equipment, because it needs to process at high
volume and convert documents into searchable text, and then write them to disk
or computer for upload.

We are supposed to practice with the scanner on Monday when we return from
Florida, and I hope to have someone start uploading at that time.

We have been, in the mean time, making phone calls and sending follow up
requests to the highest priority counties who have not complied. This is
tedious, and often involves interacting with county attorneys and, in the case
of Texas, with the state's attorney, who says he will have an answer as to
whether counties need to comply sent to us by Feb. 16.

The documents we have so far are enlightening.

Also in preparation for uploading a high volume of documents, during December,
we relocated and restructured our Web site to a more hack-resistant host and
security setup, and we created a new dedicated server and web domain,
bbvdocs.org, to house the files.

We integrated this into an easy-to-use format by putting the Black Box Voting
documents archive onto our forums. The section is right near the top, and is
called the BBV Document Archive. Right now its offerings are slim, though they
do already contain some interesting documents obtained from state-level FOIA
requests, including Ciber testing lab reports, Diebold manuals, and other
items.

Thanks for writing. The progress towards posting these documents publicly is
significant, but frustratingly invisible, since we had to put in a lot of
infrastructure to accomodate it, and we are quite a small organization, without
a lot of employees.

Infrastructure is done, now all we're waiting for is the scanner hookup and the
chance to get back in town and start uploading!

Bev Harris
Black Box Voting

[ohio_liberal]

57. Wow

Ask a simple question and you either get no answer at all or a rambling manifesto. :)

[troubleinwinter]

59. She reminds me of someone I knew

who lied incessantly... and used waaaaaayyy too many words and explanations in order to baffle and divert from the lies.

[ohio_liberal]

63. Baffle and Divert

I think that summarizes the whole situation nicely. The Bev Harris version of "shock and awe".

So did you say, "mmmmmmmmkay" when you read that email? I'm still giggling over it.

[Dookus]

33. It baffles me

how anybody was taken in by her. She seems to have alienated everybody who ever worked closely with her. I said for years it was a shame she was the "face" of the Black Box Voting issue. She's certainly done great damage to the cause.

[ohio_liberal]

37. I think the answer to that

is that she could be quite charming and convincing when she wanted to be, especially to people who were completely ignorant of the whole situation.

[Kelvin Mace]

38. The only excuse I can offer is that

initially I wasn't following what she was doing too closely. She was writing a book and I would answer her tech questions when she called. I didn't follow her postings on DU and now wish I had.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[EFerrari]

47. I was once Bev Harrised and it took me two years to figure it out.

Most of us don't walk around distrusting people who seem to be charming, bright and caring.

I'm sorry you all went through that. It's traumatizing.

[Dookus]

62. I know...

I was suspicious when she was working with some nutjob I was familiar with from the Salon boards years ago. That set off my radar, and then I just watched EVERYBODY who had anything to do with her get screwed.

Most slinked away quietly - I give you credit for standing up to her lies.

[Kelvin Mace]

66. I can think

of better ways to have spent the last two years of my life. The emails I could handle, but the shriekingphone calls at 2-3AM where hard on my nerves and my wifes.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Zomby Woof]

55. I was one the FIRST on DU to be suspicious of her.

I have great instincts about con artists and the like, and I am vindicated. It was worth the attacks against me, lol.

[Dookus]

64. heheh

Yeah, I remember a time when Saint Bev could do no wrong. It was pretty discouraging.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Generic Other]

84. Okay, I confess: I was a duped dope

I heard the warnings, but I didn't listen until the whole place was littered with corpses.

:dunce:

[Zomby Woof]

96. I said *one* of the first, not *the* first

:-) But thanks for hanging in there with the rest of us early pioneers of Bev dissent.

I still think quite a few people owe me an apology for flaming me royale when I questioned her sainthood. :P But I'll live, lol!

[hunter]

94. "Vindication" is an odd way to put it...

Before you complain about my BBV attacks against you, ZombyWoof, I don't think I ever did. I know I've shot a few flaming arrows your way but these have been mostly in response to your ZombyWoof stalking about in the Lounge, and so far as I can tell you have me on "ignore."

Black Box Voting became a very important issue to me because of what I read here on DU, and it still is an important issue to me. But I now see it as a simple extension of "traditional" forms of U.S. election fraud. Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia, etc., were simply catering to their customers' demands by automating very old vote fixing processes so that even the most dullard sort of election official could throw an election safely.

I came to this conclusion after talking to some old-timers who remembered working as election judges during the Great Depression. They remembered how they would show up for work quite hungry, and how whenever the vote counting got a little troublesome some wealthy and very friendly benefactor would show up to take them all out for an expensive meal, or even out for drinks, and then when they came back, like magic, everything would be running smoothly again...

Nowadays election judges and observers aren't hungry enough to bribe that way, but with electronic voting machines election officials can simply use their computers to "masssage the data" whenever there is a "problem" with the count.

Anyways, I was always wary of Bev, so I kept my distance. I did not send her money, and I did not do any research at her bequest. I remember there was some interaction she had with TrogL that set my "spidey senses" tingling. Bev would take what you gave her and mangle it in some way, and then she would call it her own. But all of us do that to some extent, so no big deal. It's what happens when you call someone on that which matters. Believe it or not, Bev can sometimes be gracious.

Later I also became wary of Andy (bless his heart) because he can be very, very caustic. (Hmmmm, as if I should talk...)

I think there were only a few honest posters here on DU going after Bev with both barrels, and only a few honest Bev supporters shooting back. The rest of the personalities were various single issue fabrications. I don't place you in either crowd, ZombyWoof, so I think it's slightly disingenuous for you to say "I told you so!" now.

In fact, I didn't see a lot of the honest players either defending Bev or criticizing her. There was too much noise, and too many people behaving like two opposing bands of chimpanzees fighting for turf. I attributed this to political infighting. There was stuff going on in other voting groups that was just as ugly. (I myself was upset to see verifiedvoting.org set sail under the flag of EFF, but mostly I kept that to myself, since I knew my opinion was tainted by some personal grudges unrelated to electronic voting.)

Of course since I did not accept Bev as the queen of the Black Box voting issue she did in time come around to "attacking" me, which struck me as very odd, because I didn't consider myself a significant participant in the BBV issue. Yes, I do know a little bit about the darker corners of the internet, and a little bit about the toxic meltdown in Kevin Shelley's office, but those things are not the primary focus of my political activism.

If I have anything to say here, it is that I don't think this ugly episode should discourage anyone from political activism, or from donating time or money to political causes. Everything in life is a gamble.

BBV is not by a long shot the biggest political issue I have on my plate. I mentioned in my apology to William Pitt how I'm mostly a Social Justice Catholic. The contortions I practice donating time, personal energy, or worst of all money to any Catholic institution makes all this shoveling of BBV shit very easy for me.

[Zomby Woof]

97. 2 things

1. I do not have you on ignore, nor have I ever had you on ignore.

2. I do not recall you ever attacking me over BBV, so you can rest easy on that idea.

And why the hell you ever flamed me for anything I have ever posted in the Lounge is interesting, to say the least. :-) I am as cute and friendly as can be in the ol' Lounge.

[Andy_Stephenson]

104. I'm really not caustic...

fact is I am a nice guy...really.

I imagine I can sometimes come across in my writing as caustic...but believe me...that is not what I am trying for.

[eridani]

88. Not entirely true

She publicized the issue at a time when it most needed publicity.

I don't by the scammer thing either. She held onto my check for three frigging months before cashing it--not behavior I'd expect of a fraudster.

I'm thinking that her basic problem is that she can't organize anything, and has far too large an ego to admit that, and had no real idea of what to do with a really big influx of money and cash around election time.

The way the movement should deal with this is to not send her money. If she bullshits or attacks people, then defend--no need to be the first to pick a fight with her at all. There are many other election fraud groups to support now.

[Kelvin Mace]

91. disorganized and distrustful

I don't by the scammer thing either. She held onto my check for three frigging months before cashing it--not behavior I'd expect of a fraudster.

I have had emails from folks with similar stories. She seems to have prefered that checks lay around uncashed since she wouldn't sit down and do something as mundane as fill out a deposit slip and wouldn't trust anyone else to do it.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

41. Another lie in Bev's original explanation

- The online credit card processing fee for small payments exceeds $1. We received many, many online donations for $1, and while we appreciated the support and realize that in these tough times, that is a significant commitment for many people, in fact, you go into the red on small donations.

- The cost to process donations in general is about $5 per small donation. This is because 501c(3) nonprofit regulations require an individual accounting of each donor. You have about $1.50 going out in credit card processing, $2.50 in accounting labor, and at least $1.00 in communications with donors, database actions, etc.

This is BS.

The fee for a credit card transaction is roughly $0.25 + 2%-3% of the charge.

This means, being charitable, $0.30 for a $1.00 transaction.

The accounting fee is equally spurious. PayPal and credit card transactions are itemized and have billing info and names attached with each. You print out your transaction report and you have all the documentation you need.

And FINALLY, the credit card report I have shows the average donation as $37.86 on 4,673 donations. If there had been a bunch of $1 donations this average would have been much lower.

No matter how you slice it, we were lied to in a manner that would make Bush proud.

[jdj]

78. jesus.

I remember reading this, and I remember Randi correcting her request for people to just donate a dollar because of this. Jesus.

[Donailin]

42. a good deed never goes unpunished

she should pay for Andy's operation. at the very least, that might save her soul. fucking corruption everywhere. i hate this planet.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. Donalin, I know it is hard

but despite the fact that some people behaved like scum, many did not. This is something and what we are fighting for. That thread of decency that does exist in humanity.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[gristy]

43. Ah, the times we live in...

Thanks for posting, David. I am a fan.

[Wapsie B]

50. Is there any evidence that Bev was a gop operative?

What better way to keep the $$ of those evil liberals out of the campaign than to plant some flim-flam artist in a progressive-sounding group and siphon off the dough?

[Kelvin Mace]

52. Nah

just an ego-driven prima donna.

She's is NOT a liberal, just an opprtunist.

Sadly, she had a booklet on her Talion site which talked about doing pretty much what she did on DU.

Find a hot topic, get involved and get folks to do the research for you. In essence let someone else right your book for you.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[gristy]

54. Do you mean "write" your book?

Are you sure you're David? The David Allen I know of is an editor...

[Kelvin Mace]

58. I was explaining the pitch from her web site

In essence, it is what she did here. She came in with a topic that got folk's attention, had folks do the research, collected all the posts, emails and research and distilled it into a book.

I did write about four chapters which Bev distilled down into one chapter and a section of another. I did some editing of Bev's work, mostly rewriting some of her more muddled technical parts (which she praised me for at the begining and decided to call me her "co-author". She later denied this vehemently but folks remember that she didn't kick when I was described that way on Fox's John Gibson Show).

Most of the real editing was done by Lex Alexander, a newspaper editor and former investigative reporter. Bev claims she edited the book all by herself. I'm surprised she didn't claim she had drawn the cover too.

I was her publisher and tech consultant and later contributing writer.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[datasuspect]

61. sounds criminal

and could probably be prosecuted.

anybody ever bother talking to a federal prosecutor?

this is wire fraud . . .

call the secret service and feds too . . .

[Kelvin Mace]

111. It's tricky to prove

As I explained she is ostensibly spending the money on what she raised it for. In the course of traveling around her expenses and meals are paid, so she benefits from the money that spills on her that way, but it is not illegal.

All we have proven is that she lied about how much money she raised thanks to Randi.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[lonestarnot]

69. Holy shit! Hope it was put to good use....n/t

[flyarm]

73. thank you kelvin mace!!

i am so damned sick of the * lies..and now someone who claims she is working on our behalf , of which many of us sent money in need to demand and independant audit!!!!!!!!!
i am soooo sick of lying liars!!

thank you david , and thank you andy for never compromising your honesty!!
it really is appreciated by those of us who value truth and honesty!!

i salute you!!

fly

[LittleClarkie]

75. True or not, I'd prefer it if this information came to us..

from someone other than a guy running a rival site.

Smacks of "ulterior motive" somehow.

[Kelvin Mace]

79. I don't run a "rival" site

I am not raising money, taking speaking fees, or collecting a pay check. So, how am I a rival site? I just post news on bbv.com.

If you wish t examine the document, ask. Unlike Bev I don't make unsubstantiated claims.

There are many people on this site who can vouche for my bona fides.

If you have a specfic question about any of my evidence, speak up by all means.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[LittleClarkie]

82. blackboxvoting.org vs blackboxvoting.com

Looks like similar purposes to me.

Whatever your methodology and lack of fund-taking, you're both working on the same issue.

Meanwhile, it just feels like you have an issue with Bev and you're trying to draw others into the middle of it.

[Kelvin Mace]

85. Look again

I am not recruiting people, conducting "research" or sponsoring projects, etc. I just post the news and link to folks.

And yes, I have an "issue" with Bev, but she drew me and many others into her irrational vendetta, not the other way around.

Again, if you have a question about the evidence, ask. To cast aspersions on my credibility just because you believe I run a rival site is a bit unfair.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[stillcool]

77. Sounds like she's ready for congress......lie, cheat, steal...

[LittleClarkie]

83. I think she probably meant well in the beginning, but the whole thing

with power and money sort of turned her into something of a Nixon. Quite paranoid it seems. Too much too quickly will do that I suppose.

[symbolman]

86. Well

She is now hanging around with the person that stole Takebackthemedia.com's movie - they get a bunch of suckers in a church somewhere and charge them all $10 or so (we've never recieved a dime from this person) and the money is given to other sites..

considering we dumped our HOUSE into this film we'd like to at least recoup our losses.. she refuses to honor our agreement, and just slapped her copyright on the film and off she went..

now she's hawking a constantly "unfinished" film and begging for funding, has slandered me and been ruining our contacts who she enjoyed while WE made the film, while taking our money - we were on the road for 5 months, researched it all, funded most of it, it was my wife's conception, slept in cars while my wife was pregnant to pour everything into this film..

Birds of a feather.

We can't wait to produce all the PROOF that this person is lying to these poor orgs, tho they won't listen - like Bev Harris, they've had it laid on thick and won't believe anyone else..

but I'm pretty sure that a court transcript posted at the smoking gun for all to see would change a lot of minds :)

Imagine if an editor for Spielberg took his film, slapped him own copyright on it and ran around asking for money to finish the film before focus groups that are basically hand picked by her pals, and then handed out little cards saying, "this film may live or die depending on what you write on these cards"..

sort of like stuffing the ballot box, eh?

The Masai hav a saying, "The Truth cannot be hidden" - we've proven that right here on the DU, on Randi and Malloy's shows, etc..

you MUST be ETHICAL if you claim to be a Progressive, or you are NOT a Progressive, sorry, thems the rules..

interesting that these folks hang out with right wingers as well, gun totin Bush Supporters and LOVE to get all fringy --

they make us all look bad and that was my complaint about Harris from the beginning..

a toast to Mr Mace, he KNOWS what's going on, and is as fair and honest as I've seen 'em over my 52 years :)

[Swamp Rat]

87. I second that!

... and dedicate this pic to him:

[JNelson6563]

89. I first thought of you

when I read this thread. I knew you had put your house onthe line froma post you wrote long ago. I hope that puts to rest the few who are calling poster of original in this thread "a competitor" of Bev's who's just trying to steal her support. Ugh.

I'm very sorry to hear what happened to you Symbolman. I hope you are able to recoup some of your losses.

Julie

[gristy]

101. Oh, Symbolman. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

Hopefully you remember I am a huge fan. When I met you in Boston I so couldn't contain myself I gave you a hug...

Do you have a lawyer? I wish I could help...

[jmatthan]

90. Bev met her match in Randi

They are both highly egoistic and that was Bev's problem. She did not think Randi would air her views when she was crossed, but anyone who knows how abrasively Randi, knows that was exactly what Randi would do.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland
http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com

[NC Beach Girl]

95. agreed

-it's just a shame that Randi will never support any other fundraising efforts because of Bev's suspicious handling of finances.

[stevenstevensteven]

98. Keeping our eye on the Prize: Improving Election Systems

First let me say that I probably haven't posted to DU in over 2 years, but this issue certainly got my attention.

Second, let me say that I know both David Allen and Bev Harris.

Last, folks should know that I'm the founder of Votewatch, a group that was one of the first to understand that our election system was in trouble and needed help. However, we've chosen to stay in the background, avoid press attention, and focus on using science to analyze our elections, then to apply our findings to help improve the system. We're making progress, but it is slow.

With that introduction out of the way, I'm very concerned about what I'm reading in this thread. Not so much because of the specific fund raising incident raised here, but because of the impact this incident may have on our collective ability to improve an election system that drastically needs improving. I'm hopeful that the folks on DU who have so diligently followed this issue continue to support the overall goal of election reform, as we should not take our eye off the larger and much more important goal.

Election reform will be a long and tough road, and those on the front lines need the publics support. So, my appeal to DUers is to see this as nothing more than another bump in the road. To continue forward, and to work with election officials and those of us in the non-profit community to ensure that the 2006 and 2008 elections are better run than those in recent history.

Steven Hertzberg
www.votewatch.us

[Kelvin Mace]

102. We are

The issue is bigger than any one person or group.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[nonconformist]

100. There was a time when I was very ambivalent about all this

And when Randi was soliciting donations, my first instinct was to give. I was feeling so desperate and defeated at that moment, as we all were. But something in my gut just told me NO. I backed out as I was starting to make the donation. I just kept thinking that it seemed like most everyone she teamed up with got screwed eventually. The odds just don't match up enough for that to be a coincidence.

[Toots]

105. Bev aside..does this mean the whole BBV issue was a fraud?

I believe to this day that the voting machines can be rigged.. Maybe Bev got caught up with suddenly having all that money and fame...I don't know but IMO the issue is still a valid issue that needs to be addressed. There will be a time when more fund raising is necessary and we won't want to get burnt again. I am very sad that Bev either perpetrated this or allowed it to happen because of future consequences.

[Stephanie]

106. Of course not! Ask John Conyers, Cliff Arnebeck, Howard Dean

Barbara Boxer, Hillary Clinton, Stephanie Tubbs-Milller.

The adults are in charge now, and we will win our fight to keep our right to vote!

[Kelvin Mace]

107. Absoutely not

The issue is quite genuine, but Bev has gone off the tracks in pursuit of fame, glory and cash.

David Allen
www.blackboxvoting.com
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ChiciB1]

108. I Got Sucked Into The Bev Thing!

Eager to mount adversity and protest Presidential Election Fraud for the second time here in Florida, I was duped by this person...

Didn't take me long though and I removed myself from her list!

[Kelvin Mace]

110. kick