Suspect(Russian school killings): We wanted to start a war

[Junkdrawer]

BESLAN, Russia (CNN) -- A suspect in the bloody school siege that left more than 330 people dead, nearly half of them children, said Monday the hostage-takers were ordered to seize the school to "start a war across the Caucasus."

Appearing on Russian state television, the unidentified man said the attack was ordered by Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov and Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev.

"They gathered us in the woods and 'The Colonel' said that we should take over a school in Beslan. That was our order," he said.

"When we asked why we were doing this, what our goal was, 'The Colonel' answered us, 'Because we need to start a war across the Caucasus."

He said the hostage-takers included Uzbeks, Arabs and Chechens.

...

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/06/russia.school/index.html

[burythehatchet]

1. to what end????

[Junkdrawer]

5. Perhaps *someone* wants Russia tied up in a civil war...

As I posted before, Putin is pointing fingers at the West...
....

Mr. Putin took a defiant tone, acknowledging corruption in Russian law-enforcement agencies but lashing out pointedly at unspecified foreign foes seeking to tear the country apart.

"Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us; others are helping them. They are helping, believing that Russia, as one of the world's biggest nuclear powers, is still posing a threat to them," Mr. Putin said. "Therefore, this threat must be removed."

Analysts said Mr. Putin had turned a new page in his foreign policy, blaming terrorism on the West. "(W)ho fears our nuclear weapons? Who are they aimed at? It's the West. It's not Osama bin Laden," said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst.

Mr. Putin promised measures to "strengthen the unity" of Russia and tighten its borders, and demanded "action from our law-enforcement organs that would be adequate to the level and scale of the new threats."

...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040905.wbeslan0905/BNStory/Front

[wrang_wrang]

2. Wars in Chechnya, Nagorno-Karabakh, Georgia, Dagestan, and Ingushetia

aren't enough?

[acmavm]

Idiots. There was some sympathy for the plight of the Chechens prior

to this criminal act. Or more accurately, all of the murders against innocents that were committed last week. But attacking a school, that is about as low as human beings can go no matter what they aims are. I don't care if it's independence or reaction to brutal actions being committed against the Chechens by the Russian Army. If you read about some of the tactics that the Russians are using in Chechnya, you'll understand what I mean.

But to attack a school, there is no sympathy or understanding to be won from that action. That is the definition of barbarity.

[AP]

13. These chechen leaders are probably not representing the interests of

the Chechens. Not that the Chechens don't want independence. I just suspect this isn't how they want to get it.

And I don't think Chechen independence is the goal. The goal is probably private ownership of the oil industry in the places that result from these wars. And that goal might be tied up in the strategies of some western oil companies.

Remember, Putin is trying to nationalize Lukos and the big oil companies are not happy. They don't want oil to be controled by a government that hasn't sold out to western oil company interests.

I think it's important to remember that Al Qada isn't a democracy movement. They're the other side of a fascist coin. Right now, I believe, there's a lot of money behind militant activity and the goal of it is profits, not democracy.

You could probably count on one hand the places where the rebels (and/or the existing left gov'ts) are actually interested in democracy. Maybe Nepal. A bunch of countries in South America. That's it.

[Plaid Adder]

3. Wow. Wonder who could have given them the idea

that pulling off a brutal terrorist attack on the soil of a major world power is a surefire way to start a war.

:scared:

The Plaid Adder

[daleo]

4. During Cold War, western strategists thought this would be a good thing

I recall reading books and articles in the 1980's by "our side" that looked forward to the day when chaos, terrorism, and separatism would break out in the Muslim republics, bringing down the Soviet Union (which after all was primarily Russia). Now that this has begun, our strategists have changed their tune about it, at least in public. Be careful what you hope for.

[hang a left]

6. I am sorry.

I am having difficulty believing this confession. They trout this man out on Russian state television to tell the world who was in charge and what the rational was.

It was horrifying this act of taking children hostage. Outrageous just like the acts of 9-11.

[hang a left]

7. This is an interesting article.

The mystery of the Russia hostage-takers

AFP< SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 05, 2004 07:32:47 PM >
MOSCOW: Names, nationalities and ethnic origins have been suggested, but the burning question about the militants who took 1,000 children, parents and teachers hostage in southern Russia remains unanswered: Who were they?

So far only tantalising details have been released over the possible identities and demands of over 30 heavily-armed militants who surged into the school on the morning where whole families were gathering for the first day of term.

Russian television has not flinched from showing the corpses of the hostage takers killed in a vicious shootout with security forces. A long black beard, a thick ring, a pale-skinned arm, but the dead do not reveal their secrets.

One of the few confident assertions came from the local security service chief, Valery Andreyev, who said ten Arab hostage-takers had been killed, igniting talk about the role of international terror networks in the events.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/839901.cms

[Kenergy]

8. Sorry. I'm not buying it...

I don't believe the Chechens, as bad as the Russians have
treated them, would resort to killing children.
There has to be more to this story than is being presented.
I don't think Chechens would do such a thing.
Blowing up airliners...yes...killing children...no.

[LisaL]

10. Hello?

Don't children fly on planes?:eyes:

[Ohio rules]

14. A line has been drawn by Putin ;

with this simple statement;
Appearing on Russian state television, the unidentified man said the attack was ordered by Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov and Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev.


The Chechan cause,according to Putins media blitz, has been hijacked by these two men,( and those that support them )
Maskhadov and warlor Basayev
The line has been drawn for conflict.
btw,

The corruption of the local officials that allowed munitions to be stored in the floorboards of the school... that action has also crossed the line...

I'm sure the local officials would have blown the whistle if they knew the actual targetwas the school itself.

Will the whole basket-case-ad-hoc-system that replaced the Soviet Union rule have a finger pointed at them?
lol,that would be a sign of weakness

just my 2 cents.

[MrPrax]

16. You notice that too...

An Unidentifed guy appearing on state television parroting what Putin would love to hear...

Not any of this stuff about a truly unconsciouable and 'botched' raid, corrupt officials loading up a school with explosives...sure they were just being paid to look the other way...or maybe...nawh too cynical to contemplate...

There was a journalist on Canadian radio tonight saying that some of the military people at the scene were saying the death toll was much higher...600-700, maybe even more.

It's good that a mystery man came up with some story about meeting up with the head of the movement to deflect attention from the obvious...

Do you figure Putin like the good old days of the KGB when things were a little more orderly and stuff like this didn't even get reported?

But then again since when did children get in the way of the bloodlust of law enforcement...it didn't at WACO

[legin]

9. Very interesting

That is more fingering pointing at the 'west' looks like to me.

Aslan Maskhadov looks like 'our man', his foreign minister, Ilyas Akhmadov, has recently been granted political asylum in the u.s. He also appears quite a lot here:
http://www.peaceinchechnya.org/eventsprevious.htm

(There is another guy who's name I've seen, who I think is Maskhadov's vice-president (name escapes me), he hangs out in britain. ???)

[legin]

17. Akhmed Zakayev is the other guy's name

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister (also ???)

Granted asylum in britain Nov 2003.

http://www.fact-index.com/a/ak/akhmed_zakayev.html

[Aidoneus]

11. sounds like rubbish

On the one hand I hardly doubt that those who had done this wanted a war--but indeed, they already have several to chose from--, but there are many suspect points made and it is in my view fake at best, a script written and read at worst (but more likely).

For example, never at any point and no matter what, would ChRI President Maskhadov (formerly a Colonel in the Soviet army, hence the "The Colonel" suggestion made in this propaganda piece) order something like this, yet it is claimed anyway. Aslan probably cuts his own throat whenever something like it happens, because it is so completely against what they are about. On the contrary, he was personally contacted by the Presidents of Ingushetia & North Ossetia-Alania to negotiate with the people inside. Read his statements expressing geniune horror at this and judge these propagandist claims.

Those inside were reported by more informed sources, including the Interior Ministry of the North Ossetia-Alania Republic, to include Ingushes, Russians, and Ossets, and 'possibly' also Chechens; according to witnesses, they all spoke Russian amongst themselves with a Caucasian accent (which can mean anything, since "Caucasians" are often the Russian equivalent that "niggers" are in rural Mississippi). According to government spokespeople apparently half of them were Arabs or Blacks (Africans, that is, not the racist slur that is applied to Caucasian peoples in general), which no witness would corroborate... Now it's Uzbekhs too--sure, why not just stretch the lie even further since nobody in the well-trained media wants to end up poisoned like Politkovskaya (a demonstration, perhaps).

If only there was such a reaction as this when the 42,000 Chechen children were killed..

[slojim240]

12. If you believe that s**t you may as well believe Bush.

Remember, oppressors are alwyas right and the oppressed is always wrong.

[legin]

15. We do have a slight problem here

I read a bit of 19th century Russian history when I was younger and one of the ironies of the break up of the Soviet Union was reading in the newspapers about exactly the same places as I had read about in the history books.

Georgia which has been given independance, was actually better intergrated into the Russian Empire than these areas north of it ever were.

Basically I don't know what the hell Russia is doing still in Chechnya.

However, the neocons want the Russians out too, but that has nothing to do with it being the right thing, they are playing one of their geo-political, the 'Grand Chessboard', games which is bound to turn ugly.

There are others in the region also who want the Russians out, but again perhaps their long term goals may not be quite mine either.

Makes it a bit awkward.