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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:24 PM
Original message
Russian Cargo Vessel Spins Away From Space Station: Report
Source: ABC


MOSCOW (Reuters) - An unmanned Russian cargo vessel experienced problems during a docking with the International Space Station on Friday, the Interfax news agency reported, citing the commander of the orbital station.

The Progress cargo ship "is moving away from us," Interfax quoted cosmonaut Alexander Skvortsov as saying in a communication with Russian mission control outside Moscow. He was quoted as saying the cargo ship was "spinning uncontrollably" and later that it had disappeared from view.



Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=11074888
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Glad it didn't hit 'em.
PB
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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Your Right
Thats what happened on Soyuez, a supply rocket hit them. Can anyone say, "A space shuttle would be real handy in a situation like this?"
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Space Shuttles arent cost effective
it's a dead end technology. The Russians provide better per dollar spent. As regards the Space Station, it's useless anyway. We should save the money, close it down.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. That's what BP said about remotely operated Blow Out Preventors nt
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Huh?
What does one thing have to do with the other? The Space Shuttle is obsolete, it's not cost effective, the Russian design is better, costs less. We have lost two space shuttle and over a dozen people proving our system is worse. And it's a lot more costly. Feel free to discuss this topic as is.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Braulio
Braulio

I dont belive that a Space Shuttle, is dead end teck.. When the SPACE SHUTTLE was new, it was a type of teck that no one than the United States of America was capable of made and was also lauded for the tecnoligal gap it was given the space exploration.. And Compared to the Apollo program, where the core comuputer weightet One Thousand Kilogram or a metric tonn, the core computer on th Space Shuttle was WAY ahead its time.. The whole Space Shuttle Program was indeed at least 10-20 year before its time.. And if the Space Shuttle have had the suport from the get go, to the bitter end, it would have given us a far better deal than it was doing before the end next year..

What US, and maybe the rest of the world need, is a Next Generation of the Space Shuttle, where all the tecnical know how we have mustered, and neew types of metal, and other more advanced matrials could be used to make a Space Shuttle NG lighter, better and most of all, more safe than the old types was.. The future belong to the Space Shuttle, even in a size, and maybe in a design that the current space shuttle fleet could not give us.. Its age is clear, it looks more and more like an overzised DC-9 im my wiew - but NW have had the DC9-30 flying for more than 40 year now...

As a verry young kid I was watching the first landing of the Space Shuttle in 1982 (I was pre-school) and I was facined by the program, and was reading, and more than one time begget my family to stay up late, if a program of the space shuttle was been given on the TV.. Even tho I was "dead" next day;) And yes, I have the Star trek films, and series, so my imagattion is at least clear:P

As I havw writen longer up, I do belive the future would hold a space shuttle, not in the form as today, the technology have going far longer than the current fleet could posible make use of.. But a new space shuttle, with all the new technology who we have today, and who are using the newest form of building materiale, should at least be as cost effective as anything else NASA, or other space organiations could muster... Today the US sastronauts are trusting a technology who the russians have trimmed and trimmet to their best ability the last 40year or so, to send them up to space.. And even the russians have few thing up their slewe, they just need to have the right money and the ressourses to build it. And it is known, that the russian are builing a new place to shoot up sivilian and miliary systems in the entiour of russia, and good know what they have up their slewe there:. I doubt they have trown away the blue prints for Buran yet. And as the Space Shuttle is winding down, and would end up in a museum in the end, maybe a NG type of Buran, would enter the sky for the first time.. A far more advanced and modern type, who could give the russians some great leverage against the rest, when it came to exploring the near space that is...

It is sad, that money alone could deside if a program is great or not.. I know NASA have spendt a lot of money, on programs, that have flunked greatly, but I also know that NASA have build a lot of programs, who the neyers have sayd would end up as disasters, but who in the end have ended up as great sucess... Like the Apollo program, who the Neyers was telling was a waste of money and time - the only way to get on the tup, was to blow the shit out of the russians... We know the history, and we also know that the Apollo program in all, was an sucess

Today we have the same thing,, A lot of neyers who is scredding NASA for it smoney, and demanding a lot more, for less money.. And now is not the americans alone longer in space, Both China and India wil up in space, and even tho both India and China have a lot to discover before they could manage to get it right, they are on track for the most part, asnd if US dosen't want to bite the dust, US have to get their act togheter, so they are at least on par with the rest...

- And I belive, that the only way to do that, is to end at least a couple of wars they are making all over the world at the moment, get US out of Iraq, and more than posible out of Afghanistan also.. Close some bases, and trow out the private contractors for deals with the US armed forces.. Then they could posible have enough to have enough money to both give americans a better future, and a decent space exploration, where US wil use their technological adwance againt the rest of the crowd.. Face it, the US do have a lot of know how about space exploration, and it know to make te most adcanced space programs there is.. I would say it wil be a sad day, when the last space shuttle is landing for good, and we collectively have to trust a technology that is more than 40 year old...

That is NOT what space exploration is about, to use a type of technology who was fancy in the 1960s.. To go space exploration, we, as humans have to use the most advanced, and maybe strech the posibility a little, to explore out here.. And a space Shuttle is NOT dead end, but it have to be modernized, and also made by other type of metals than the Space Shuttle have been made of.. The new materials we have today, would revolonize the whole space program, specially in a Space Shuttle NG type.. lighter, stronger, with better engines, and a new generation of computers and other gadgets would give a pace shuttle an egde over the old types.. But of course, if humans are to travel to he moon, and then to Mars and beyound they need some better, and more advanced than the space shuttle NG.. And the current Space shuttle was never intended to do anything else, than they have been doing the last 30 year either.. Out of orbit was never in the cards.. FOr that, we need some better, some more advanced programs than the space shuttle program..

Diclotican
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Sorry, dude, but the Space Shuttle is a lousy design
The Space Shuttle is fundamentally flawed. The concept was based on a flawed premise, the idea that a liquid fuel and oxygen engine could be made to lift a heavy payload in a single stage with a heavy payload while also carrying a large passenger load. This flaw was eventually compensated by attaching solid fuel boosters to the contraption, and thus the shuttle was born with a basic flaw built in. Whether it was ahead of its time or not, it's not important, it was ahead of its time with the wrong design concept. And they stuck to it all these years, wasting a huge amount of money while trying to sustain the bs design.

And there's no space exploration going on with the Shuttle nor the Space Station. They are just circus. Crap they put in space to sustain a program that goes nowhere.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Braulio
Braulio

The design of the Space Shuttle was not fudeamental Flawed, the do had a few design flaws, like the use of tills, to make the re-entry cooler, and of course the use of serten metall allous did their share to make the space shuttle less able than it was.. But in all, the space program, like in the space shuttle program was not flawed as such, but to point out the engine problemas as you point out, it was from the get go known to most peopole, who worked at the program, that the liquid fuel and oxygen engine could not lift the space shuttle near the hight the wanted for it.. The solid fuel boosters was not added to the space shuttle as an afterthough, but rather as the design was made more an more sure, the know how, was made posible that they needed the solid boosters.. And the Solid Fuel Boosters did the trick if I might have to say so...

But as a point. The liquid hydrogen-ozcygen engines, who the space shuttle was using, are even today one of the best way to propel a orbital thing into orbit.. Most rockets today, use either solid rocked fuel - or the same type of fuel that the current Space Shuttle are using, So, if the engines are so flawes, why the hell are most rockets using the same design... Even China are using luqid or solid fuel to propel their rockets..

One thing is sure, the Space Shuttle as we know it, have not been a sheap shuttle, compared to, like a Apollo NG, the Space Shuttle is like driving a Roll Royce, and then a Cobolt... That be the Apollo NG is an Cobolt, and the Rolls Royce the Space Shuttle.. But to say that the Space Shuttle have never been another thing than a expensive toy for the astronauts is utter bulshit, who most educated persons, who have followed the shuttle program - or who had at least managed to read some about the program would reqonize as a fact.. A lot of our tecnology, like our comuputers, who I belive you are using on a daily basis, have it base in programs like the Apollo program, and the Space Shuttle program.. They had to miniatyrize every component who was to be build into the program, even tho the zise of the technology in the 1970s, was bigger than in our current computers.. My watch have more power to tell me what the time is, than the Apollo computer did in the 1960s... But still it looks like you admire the Apollo program, but could not say a good word about the Space Shuttle program, who have been used to give us a far better undestanding about the cosmos, most of the most advanced star gazers have been shoot up, by the "flawed design": And in the case of the Hubble the Space Shuttle have been instrumental in made it posible for Hubble to function at all.. Withouth the wisit of the Space Shuttle, at least 4 times as I reqon it at hte moment, Hubble would not have leasted at long as i have been, and not given us the amazing pictures about the wonders, who are waiting for us out there....

The International Space Station are a new one, and have maybe yet to prove itself as "worth the while". But it is not a waste of money and time, as ISS, wil give humans a greater understanding how to live and surive out there in space.. And when the humans is ready, to leave earth it would be from places like ISS, or places like it.. And it have also given the world a posibility to work togheter, specially after the cold war, when the new word was to be discovered, ISS have been instrumental in making the russians, the americans, and the rest of the world able to build, and maintain human pressence in space... Even tho ISS have been far slower build than expected, mostly becouse of overun economy vice, I would not say the ISS, have been a waste of money.. And just to point out it, many other nations, than Russia and US have spendt money on ISS, and would gladly give more to the program.. ISS is up there, and would be the little grip mankind have in the space at current.. If we just get better along, and stop most of the total un-nessesary wars down here, the exploration, by humans, both in near spacve and beyound would be more easy, and go forward faster than today... Its over 40 year since Neil Armstrong first came to the Moon.. And no man have been on the Moon since Apollo 17...

IF, and I would say when, a Space Shuttle NG is build, all the flaws, all the wrong design would be fixed and a new, more advanced, and maybe also better Space Shuttle would emerge from the design labs. the least 30 or so year, have given designers and enegiers a far better understanding about the stress a space shuttle liftoff really is. And they also have a whole new generation of metals, and composite to play with, to get it right.. The space Shuttle is an old design, using the best metals they could muster in the 1970s.. With the new, light, but strong metals and composite able to us today, a new design, not just the body, but also to the engine would be more than able.. Just the last couple of year, new engines - one, who in design was russian made, and had been stored in an hangar for more than 30 year) have given the un-manned space program a new life, becouse the engines is far better suited to get rockets out in space

The future is Space, and the future is MANNED SPACE exploration.. Not by maning some drones to let us se what is in our nearest areas of the space, but to discover what is out there for real, we need manned space exploration.. The space Shuttle, - and now the ISS, is just our firstt, tiny little baby steps into the oceans that is space.. Hopefully in a 100 years time, our relatives would talke about us, in some kindness, becouse we was so primitive in our exploration of space.. Maybe your grand,grand children would have residence in a moon colony, or better, at Mars, where thy would disoover things, that we could just be dreaming off...

Diclotican
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Braulio Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. So what have the space shuttle and station achieved?
So, in more than 30 years, what have the space shuttle and station achieved that could not have been achieved using much cheaper systems? Nothing. The manned program is a huge waste of resources, and it is based on flawed designs and concepts. I don't agree the future is manned exploration, because we don't have the money to pay for it. It can be done a lot cheaper using robots.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Braulio
Braulio

As I have pointed out - the use of Computers, and all technology that is used today, have their ancestory, directly wired into the Space Program as a whole, and also spesific to the Space Shuttle program.. Today we wery often use GPS, to get directions to where we want to go - my bet is that you are using GPS fairy often, specially when you are in areas you dosen't know to wel.. Withouth the space shuttle most of the satelites, who are in orbit today, specially when it came to information, like GPS, would not have been out there, if it was not for the Space Shuttle.. Most of our modern technology have in one way or another direct link to manned and un-manned space programs..

The Manned Space Program are maybe a program where they have to spend a lot of money, but it is worth it. And we have allways the money, it is just HOW we spend the money that is importand.. And US today is spending trillions, and trillions on hopeless stupid wars in Iraq, and Afghanistand, and hare keeping dictatorships in power, by many other trillions every year, and is also spending billions on miliary hardware no other nations want, or have the ressourses to build anyway.. Just on MILITARY SPENDING United States of America is using 20 times more, than the next 20 nations on the list.. If US had spending 1 or 2 times the rest of the 20 on the list over msot money spend on military hardwere, you would still be the ONLY superpower in the world for many decades to come.. And then you would more than posible have the money able to have a manned space program - a Space Shuttle NG. And more than posible also a public option when it came to a national Health care..

Manned space progam is the future. A robotic army of drones could not do the same work, as an human can. Yes it is expensive, but worth in the end.. And as I have pointed out, if US was to use more ressourses on space exploration, instead of wasting the same money on wars, and hardware you dosen't need, or that would never be used anyway..

Even tho a drone program, who could explore the solar system far cheaper than a manned space program can do.. Even the most adnvanced drone today are not near the same abilites as a human are able of... Even the very smart drones, who are on mars, and who have given us amasing new knowlegde about the planet and what the geological history is.. They are "stupid" compared to the knowlegde, and the ability that a human can do.. And even with more AI, who would give the drones more autonomus than the current ones, would not give the same abilites as an human can do, on a regular bassi... If we, for some reason would deisde that we dosen't want to spend the money nessesary to get an manned space exploration underway, then we could just stop look at the stars all togheter, and go extint next time a rock fall from the sky and blow up half the planet... It would be stupid of us, to not explore, and to travel first inside our own solar system, but also to go where no man have goon before, to parafrase Star Trek..

Diclotican
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well that's Russian technology in a nutshell.
I'm glad no one was killed. Because every time one of their major weapon systems or anything space related fails, there's usually a death or more involved.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yeah, it is not like we have lost a space shuttle ever
Edited on Fri Jul-02-10 12:38 PM by liberation

Oh, wait...
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CLANG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Well, thank God we only lost one!
Oh, wait...
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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. The Russians
built and maintained a space station before we tried it. Its great being proud of American technology but we did lose two space shuttles and their crews so maybe we best keep our stones in our pocket before we start chucking them at Russia.
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liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. And if it weren't for soyuz...
Edited on Fri Jul-02-10 12:41 PM by liberation
... there would be no supplies in the space station, nor an economically feasible manner to lift and replace crews on a periodic basis.

But let's make fun of them!
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. +1
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. not just their's, but all massive technology on that scale.
actually, the Russians have a stable, reliable, and very heavy lift rocket system, which is more than we can say, once the shuttle is grounded.
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Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Crowman1979
Crowman1979

To be honest - Russian Techonoly are not more flawed than a western counterparts.. The technology is soud- at least to a point.. And this type of space veisle is not excactly high teck.. But everything that is beeing shoot up in space, could be damaged in some way.. And my best guess is that the guidance system was damaged in some way before the docing prossedyre... That could happend even if a western counterpart have been used... Many times have not a western space veichele failed missrable?

Diclotican
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. More info: Unmanned capsule flies past space station

Unmanned capsule flies past space station
Progress 38 spacecraft is packed with nearly 2.5 tons of supplies
MSNBC

An unmanned service module carrying supplies to the International Space Station flew past the station today as astronauts were preparing for it to dock.

A telemetry lock between the Russian-made Progress module and the space station was lost and the module flew past at a safe distance. NASA said the crew was never in danger and that the supplies are not critical amd will not affect station operations.

NASA said that it is considering whether or not to attempt another docking today or wait until tomorrow.

Known in Russia as Progress M-06M, the new Progress 38 spacecraft is packed with nearly 2.5 tons of fresh food, clothes, equipment and other supplies for the space station's six-person crew.

Packed aboard the spacecraft are 1,918 pounds of propellant for the station, 110 pounds of oxygen, 220 pounds of water and 2,667 pounds of dry cargo including spare parts, science equipment and other supplies.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38060650/ns/technology_and_science-space/
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. '...the supplies are not critical...'
So they spent all that money and all those resources to send a capsule loaded with supplies that are not critical? WTF?
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Not critical as in ISS is not going to fall out of the sky tomorrow.
Not critical as in the crew will not soon be sucking on vacuum. (thin stuff BTW. bugger all sustenance in it)

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Not critical "yet"...like getting gas isn't critical when you have 1/2 tank
don't know why this concept is such a mystery.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. It was filled with toilet paper
:argh:
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. I hope it didn't contain their entire
supply of toilet paper.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Up shit creek without a jetpack!


PB
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Are you a fellow fan of Dark Star?
It's your turn to feed the alien.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-02-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. I thought it was great.
I think I only saw it once, eons ago.
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