Grayson apologizes to Anti-Defamation League

[Tx4obama]

Source: Politico

Rep. Alan Grayson has sent a letter of apology to the Anti-Defamation League after describing the health care situation as a “holocaust in America” on the House floor Wednesday.

(snip)

Grayson spokesman Todd Jurkowski confirmed the contents of the letter, .... (snip)

“In no way did I mean to minimize the Holocaust,” wrote Grayson. “I regret the choice of words, and I will not repeat it.”

But Grayson is making no apology to Republicans, who said they were offended when he said on the House floor Tuesday that the GOP’s health care plan amounts to “die quickly.” .... (snip)


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/27860.html

[Hepburn]

1. I am not getting this....

...Grayson is a Jew ~~ and what he said in no manner IMO was defamatory.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Abe Foxman is a rightwing shill

There was a holocaust in the Americas that makes the Nazi Holocaust look tame by comparison. Entire races were exterminated!

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[mule_train]

24. carefull there, or you might end up apologising to

the American F--K society

for using their word

[patrice]

62. Thank you.

[mitchum]

22. +1

[Behind the Aegis]

52. And, Abe Foxman is a Holocaust survivor.

"There was a holocaust in the Americas that makes the Nazi Holocaust look tame by comparison. Entire races were exterminated!"

That isn't even descent hyperbole, except to extremists.

[Exultant Democracy]

74. Not really hyperbole in as far as it is true. The genocide in the Americas was exponentialy

greater then the genocide in Germany. Based on the archeological and historical data we have the number of deaths could have easily topped 100 million. 100 million does in fact make 6 million look tame.

[cali]

79. first of all, the genocide of Native Americans in the U.S. took place

over a couple of centuries, so comparing that the the Nazi Holocaust which took place over approximately 5 years, doesn't really work. It's just not an apt comparison. Furthermore, when you engage in such a game, you diminish victims of genocide from every genocide. It's pretty disgusting.

[w4rma]

90. Half a million a year is quite a lot. I'll bet some years it escalated pretty high, too.

And populations were lower, then. So, as a percentage of the total Native American population it is really high.

[bvar22]

101. The American Holocaust....

...didn't really get revved up until after the Civil War when the Armies of the North turned their full military might to Ethnically Cleansing the West.

Minimizing the American Holocaust diminishes the victims of all Holocausts.

[IndianaGreen]

86. And Abe Foxman is agitating for a war against Iran, as he did against Iraq

His children were not the ones that ended up going to war.

[David__77]

113. Comparison is unhelpful.

I think that comparing the genocide of different peoples is pretty unhelpful in general, and that is the problem. I would also agree that it is unhelpful to use the terms "genocide" or especially "Holocaust" in a way that can in any way to considered flippant.

[cali]

78. you are wrong. just as the Nazi Holocaust doesn't make the Cambodian

genocide look tame or any other genocide look tame. Your comment is disgusting- predictable but disgusting. And they reveal you for exactly what you are.

[IndianaGreen]

87. If the Nazis had succeeded in doing what the Conquistadors did in the Americas

the only memories we would have today that there was ever a Jewish people would be the ruins of buildings.

[cali]

96. first of all, I obviously wasn't referencing SA, though

it's fine if you bring that in. My point is that no genocide actually makes another genocide look better. I think it's both sad and sick that you can't grasp that. very sick.

[IndianaGreen]

98. Exterminating an entire race is a holocaust by any definition of the word

Entire races were exterminated and civilizations erased during the American Holocaust. This is why so many of us oppose the Columbus Day celebrations. It is sad that many of you are ignorant of the history of this continent.

While the "Shoah" exclusively refers to the murder of millions of Jews by the Nazis and their collaborators, the word holocaust is far more inclusive and it is not restricted to what happen to the Jews during WWII, a war in which millions were killed on account of their race, religion, and sexual orientation.

[cali]

99. please see the post you're referencing for my response.

I'm not remotely ignorant of the history, pumpkin. I'm quite aware of the genocide of NAs in this country and oppose Columbus Day myself.

of course holocaust is a word that can be used other than in reference to the Nazi Holocaust. Never said it shouldn't be. I explained why I don't think the word holocaust is appropriately applied to the victims of our healthcare system but you want to use it, go for it. Just don't be surprised if it's ineffective rhetoric that veers into a distraction.

And no duh that the Nazi Holocaust applies to millions beyond the Jewish victims. Glad you informed yourself of that.

You don't get it. You need help.

[CTyankee]

3. Hepburn, this is a very sensitive subject for many Jews. I think they should be respected.

What we gentiles think is not as important, IMO. Now that I have 3 Jewish granddaughters I feel differently about using the "holocaust" lightly, if at all.

[Hepburn]

13. Hint....

...I come from a Jewish background.

[shcrane71]

26. I don't think using holocaust to describe 122 deaths a day is using the term "lightly"

Health Care reform is a moral discussion about human welfare, dignity, and rights.

[Hepburn]

34. The way I have seen it is that it is the destruction of a class...

...for financial profit. Seems to me the word fits.

[CTyankee]

38. Then, what do you think is the basis for some Jewish thinking that "holocaust" should be

for the Jews? I didn't say "the Jews alone" because I have talked to many Jews who do not feel that it IS the Jews alone. But there is a residual feeling about this and we should deal with it.

I think you are right in what you said about the "destruction of a class" but it was also the attempt to RID the world of its Jewry. Now that is pretty mind boggling! Hitler wanted to rid the entire WORLD of Jews! The PLANET!

Think of that! This is what the world had to face in WW2. We rose to the occasion. I'm not sure that, based on what I've heard today here on DU, we would do the same today! That is a total shame on us at DU!

[Hepburn]

40. I cannot speak for all Jews and would never try to...

....as someone with a Jewish background and gypsy blood ~~ some forget Hitler went after gypsies, too ~~ I can only say that I am not the least bit offended by Grayson's use of the term and I find it appropriate.

Others may feel differently ~~ that is their choice ~~ and I speak for myself alone.

As to WWII, the U.S. did not come into the war until after Pearl Harbor ~~ FDR requested Congress declare war on Dec 8, 1941. We did engage in the lend-lease program, but other than that, IMO we we not that involved in the the war in Europe. When the war went to the Pacific ~~ that was a different story after we were attacked.

[CTyankee]

57. I think there are Jews who feel that the world is against them whatever they do.

I do not understand this antipathy, except that perhaps there is an envy of their superiority in many areas. They excel in academia and beat out a lot of other kids in getting into the Ivy League schools. They are highly successful in law, show business, advertising, and many other areas of expertise.

So I feel there is a resentment among lots of people that Jews do so well in our society, given their low numbers in our population. And there is a residual blame for the Jews for everything from the death of Jesus to today's economic situation ("the Jews on Wall Street"). So much of this is familiar! We read about it in our history books about WW2 with the Nazis. So why is this antipathy against Jews so rampant today, especially among LIBERALS?

I don't get it. Many, many liberals in the turn of the last century were Jews. We owe a great deal of our history as liberals to Jews.

Let's all examine our thinking on how we REALLY feel about Jews in our society...

[shcrane71]

109. I don't follow how the use of the word, holocaust, means that a

person has antisemitic leanings. It seems insane to me, that when we're actually trying to get something done about health care, that Liberals are attacking the one person standing up for us to the Republicans over semantics.

Do we really want health care reform? Or would we rather correct Grayson for using the term holocaust to describe the death of tens of thousands of Americans A YEAR by systematically denying them health care.

[CTyankee]

110. My point really is that use of the word holocaust raises hackles and then the argument

turns into one about the word. I just think Grayson could have used another term, equally descriptive but not one that distracted us, just as it is doing now on this and other threads.

Imagine, if he had used another powerful word to describe the suffering and dying of thousands of people every year because of lack of health care, we would all be joining together and advancing our cause: that of accessible, affordable health care for all.

[izquierdista]

111. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Personally, I consider people who like to categorize genocides like the Armenian, Rwandan, Native American, Cambodian, Jewish, and others and put them in order to be so anally retentive that they have cut off the blood flow to the head shoved up their ass.

To be liberal means to value ALL people, ALL races, ALL religions, ALL national origins, ALL sexual orientations, and ALL other differences that demagogues use to divide humanity. Maybe it's progress that only 122 people a day die from lack of insurance, and it's less heinous than gassing 1200 a day, but it's still heinous.

I think you should all shut up, get over it, and work for universal single-payer.

[The Green Manalishi]

76. The Republican Christo-Fascists would be quite happy

doing Gods work and seeing to the death of everyone who doesn't share their world-view. From the moron fans of the 'Left Behind' series to the 'patriots' who don't give a shit about millions of dead Iraqis, the Curtis Le May worshippers of mass death and the Good Christians who would be glad to wipe every pagan, Wiccan, Muslim and unbeliever off the face of the earth- or at least wank-off to the idea of it happening.
There are assloads of pubbies who would revel in the death of every one not Born Again.

The Shoah was unique in the planning, resources and ideology of a major industrialized nation being directed at eliminating the Jews; no matter how devastating the destruction of the aboriginal Americans was, it was a by-product of the imperialist expansion. But I think there are plenty of evil bastards around today, many in this country and until recently in charge of much of it, who are capable of, and would gladly execute, programs just as nefarious.

[CTyankee]

83. Why aren't we using highly descriptive words instead?

We could be telling people's stories about the cruelty, suffering, agonizing, destructive, callous, when we describe what characterizes our health care system now. We would be discussing ways to fix it, not arguing about one word. That is probably the best argument to NOT use the term "holocaust" in this whole discussion.

[tavalon]

63. What he said was "this holocaust"

not The Holocaust. The word predates what happened in Germany.

[IndianaGreen]

89. When the Holocaust is used to whip war fever against Iran, as it was on lead up to Iraq war

When the Holocaust is used to whip war fever against Iran, as it was on lead up to Iraq war or when the Holocaust is exploited by successive Israeli governments to keep their country in a permanent state of war and Occupation of Arab lands, it dimishes the Holocaust itself.

Sep 26, 2009 22:30

Channel 2: Livni criticizes Netanyahu for invoking Holocaust at UN

By GIL HOFFMAN

Kadima leader Tzipi Livni became the first Israeli politician to criticize Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's landmark speech to the United Nations in an interview she gave on Saturday afternoon to Channel 2.

Livni said that Netanyahu made a mistake when he invoked the horrors of the Holocaust in his criticism of Holocaust-denying Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

She said the comparison could harm Israel's diplomatic efforts and make Israelis question their security.

"We have to be careful not to encourage the world to think that Israel was established because of the Holocaust," Livni said. "When Obama said so in Egypt, there was a justified uproar. It is wrong to compare any event in history to the Holocaust, because it minimizes the most horrible historic event that happened to the Jewish people. It also makes Israeli citizens feel less secure. The Jews of Israel in 2009 are not the Jews of Europe in 1939, and I've said this to Netanyahu."

Jerusalem Post

[Arctic Dave]

4. He's cutting the wingnuts off at the pass.

Now they even be able to use antisemitism against him. Even though hecis a Jew.

[Hepburn]

14. Now that does make some sense. n/t

[alllyingwhores]

28. No...he's giving them ammunition to say "LOOK, HE'S APOLOGIZING FOR WHAT HE SAID, EVEN HE KNOW'S...

...HE WAS WRONG!!" Kinda of a stupid move...

[Tx4obama]

41. You're wrong...

The Republicans want Grayson to apologize for saying 'the republicans want you to DIE QUICKY'
Grayson has NOT apologized for that.
He has NOT apologized to any of the Republicans for anything.
The only thing he has done is send a letter to the Anti-defamation League regarding his use of the word 'holocaust'.

[iamjoy]

95. Apologizing Was Smart

It was smart of Congressman Grayson to apologize to the ADF for his use of the term "holocaust." Right or wrong, the term holocaust is associated with the deliberate genocide and attempted complete anhilation of the Jewish people. We don't need any more careless and rhetorical Nazi analogies.

I think I get what my congressman was trying to say when he used the word "holocaust." I think it was a poor choice of words, but I believe he his motivation was good and he feels strongly about the issue.

Still, I'm glad Congressman Grayson apologized for this. I think it takes away ammunition. See, if he hadn't apologized, he would of been accused of invoking the hackneyed and offensive Nazi analogy to make his point. Even many moderates would have bought into it. But he has made a very pointed apology. By apologizing for the "holocaust" comment he shows decency and humility. He demonstrates the courage to admit he was wrong. Furthermore, this apology underscores his strength in standing by the "die quickly" comment.

[Lorien]

67. i don't either. "Holocaust" is a term for the reckless destruction of life

there hasn't been just one. Cambodia, Rwanda, and many other Nations throughout history have experienced holocausts. Parts of our environment are going through one right now. The term may be a bit of hyperbole...or not. Many thousands of deaths are caused by insurance company greed every year. That's pretty reckless imho.

[roguevalley]

73. put to sleep an argument. good strategy

[msongs]

5. its a perfectly usable word for many circumstances - Jews do not own it nt

[CTyankee]

7. They may not own it, but they sure have a good claim.

Don't you think?

[Robb]

47. +1. nt

[Politicub]

108. Then it should be OK for grayson to invoke the word n/t

[Old Vet]

8. Theres a few graves ................

In Cambodia,And vietnam that equate to extermination. On such a scale I don't think most could comprehend.

[Tx4obama]

6. holocaust vs. Holocaust

Grayson used the lower case 'holocaust' in his floor speech (the speech text was released to the media)
The word can be used in more than one way.
But I think it was good, even though unnecessary, for Grayson to have sent the letter. This will head off any further criticism from the Jewish community. Just my opinion.

[Newsjock]

9. Thank goodness he didn't call anything 'niggardly'

Then we'd have to go through that whole thing again, too.

[kestrel91316]

10. I agree. The word can either be capitalized or not. What happened to the Jews

under Hitler was "The Holocaust". Doesn't prohibit the term "holocaust" from being applied elsewhere.

[Nancy Waterman]

11. And where are the complaints about

the outrageous, over-the-top comparison's of Obama to Hitler, his picture with a Hitler mustache, etc., etc.
These are becoming common place and are shockingly offensive. The silence is deafening.

[Cass]

17. Good point. And the use of the word holocaust by anti-choicers is another example. nt

[varelse]

39. Ironic how the outrage is so... confined to this one use of the word

isn't it?

[CTyankee]

48. Yep. I hear that too. It's like "if the Jews want it, well, something's wrong."

I am NOT impressed.

[CLANG]

12. That's what I couldn't figure

Nuclear holocaust? Did the republicans not say those very words leading up to the war in Iraq?

[Hepburn]

15. Excellent point. n/t

[Ian David]

43. Problem is, it wasn't printed- it was spoken.

Also, he's Jewish himself.

Dave Chapelle and Carlos Mencia would give him license to use whatever Jewish-themed language he chose- for whatever their opinions are worth.

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

16. Please, just when...

... did anyone obtain a copyright, trademark, or actual or implied ownership of the term "holocaust" ?

Need we be reminded that in addition to the vile, evil, and beyond comprehension of over six million who were Jewish, there were a similar number of gays and gypsies that were likewise victims of this most disgusting period of human history?

Moreover, if we are, indeed, compelled to do "the numbers game," then it can well be respectfully suggested that the 45 thousand annual deaths times the twenty years of recent time that this country has suffered the abuse of the contemporary insurance industry equals just under a million needless and senseless death secondary solely to the avarice and greed of one of the most contemptible industries in modern American society and their Republican (and at time, Democratic) enablers.

Hence, I think a "million" well qualifies for holocaust designation.

I love this guy. Earlier this week I sent an Email to his office and a contribution to his re-election campaign. He appeared to be the only Democrat on the current radar with balls. Too bad that he just lost one of them to "political correctness" and expediency.

[boppers]

18. Seventeen million, under the broadest use of "The Holocaust"

I'm one of the long term wikipedia editors who work on that particular article, and the numbers and usage conversation comes up quite often. Different groups feel that minimizing, or even comparing, events results in inaccurate equivocation.

Oh, and welcome to DU!

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

69. Thanks for the welcome and kudos...

... for your work on Wikipedia. I applaud and respect that collective and use it often.

[edc]

19. Fuck 'em

The Anti- Defamation League is to mass extermination of human beings what the NRA is to gun control. They're just another right wing, anti-democratic, corporatist front group that sucks up to Israeli nationalism. These sorry neo-fascist fuckers do not own the word holocaust merely because they happen to be Jews. The question should be how any self respecting Jew could support these murdering bullshiters or how any gentile anywhere could be intimidated by them.

[Old Vet]

25. Yup, My point exactly edc.....................

Cambodias body count far exceeded the jews plight in WW2.

[rockymountaindem]

30. That isn't true

Two million Cambodians died during Khmer Rouge rule, a figure exceeded by Jewish deaths in the Holocaust by about a factor of three.

[timtom]

94. Not to mention

another 5,000,000 assorted Poles, Russians, Gypsies, homosexuals, and disabled people.

[martymar64]

97. And about an estimated 16-20 million Russians

They sacrificed more to defeat Hitler than any other country, including the US.

[Ian David]

44. ADL is Liberal. JDL is right-wing. n/t

[still_one]

51. Yes it is, and they have spoken up about civil rights of other groups also

I have heard this shit since I was a kid, oh why are the Jews so sensitive, and keep bringing up the holocaust? Maybe so it doesn't happen again

Their aren't that many Jews left in the world, but when a Congress person decides to to apologize for his use of the word it sure brings a firestorm that bother a lot of people, and that speaks volumes

[AlienGirl]

58. The ADL also is instrumental in campaigns to stop ongoing genocides

Plug: http://www.savedarfur.org/

Tucker

[Ian David]

60. Good point. The ADL believes "Never Again" applies to all people, not just to Jews.

But unfortunately, many people confuse The ADL with the JDL.

JDL is a bunch of schmucks.

[Ian David]

59. The ADL was relatively restrained in their criticism.

And Grayson was very precise in his apology.

I think Grayson and The ADL are on the same page.

[AlienGirl]

61. I agree: it seems to me like a formal enacting of proper etiquette

Both sides have the same goals, but it would have been in poor form for the ADL not to say something about it, and also in poor form for Grayson not to apologize. The best thing to do was what they did, which was demonstrate publicly how to act in each position in the situation.

Tucker

[JackRiddler]

72. If ADL is liberal, then the word truly means nothing.

[IndianaGreen]

92. Abe Foxman has sided with the elites in Latin America

There is nothing liberal about that!

[still_one]

49. The Anti-Defamation League is what the NRA is to gun control? I think you have things twisted

and who are you to suppose who is or isn't a self respecting Jew?

Let's we have about 12 - 15 million Jews total population because of WWII

You don't like it because Jews are a little bit sensitive on the subject, tough

and calling the Anti-Defamation League "neo-fascist f**kers", reflects how screwed up your thinking is

[Violet_Crumble]

77. Trying to claim the ADL is some benevolent liberal type group is what's really out there...

I mean, c'mon. Foxman denied the Armenian genocide for purely political reasons. They froth at the mouth with a rabid support of any and all military attacks by Israel on the Palestinians, and are decidedly slanted towards right-wing views and support of RW politicians. It's not the same sort of ADL as it used to be, and maybe if it quit the political shit and stuck to speaking out against bigotry, it'd have some respect from me...

Here's an article about Foxman that you might like to read http://www.jewcy.com/feature/2007-07-09/fire_foxman

Now, when it comes to whether the word 'holocaust' (note the lower case 'h' there) should be out of limits lest a flurry of outraged cries by folk who seem to think they're qualified to speak on behalf of all Jews (yr third sentence is remarkably along that vein), it's all a bit silly and showing just a bit of confusion between the word and the proper noun which is used to denote the murder of 12 million people, including 6 million Jews. I've seen the Armenian genocide referred to as a holocaust, firestorms a few years ago where I live were referred to (and having seen them firsthand, I totally agree with this) a holocaust, and what happened in Cambodia and Rwanda referred to as holocausts. But none of them are given the name 'Holocaust' (notice the uppercase 'H'), because that's the name for something specific that happened and it is wrong to use that to describe other things, and unless other things are called 'Holocaust' or imo even worse 'Shoah', then I can't see why anyone would be so overly sensitive to get all bent out of shape over a word that's not being used as a proper noun.It's when it's used to try to draw comparisons between some other event and the actual Holocaust that I have problems. I haven't read what that politician said about US healthcare but somehow I doubt he was trying to draw comparisons and that apologising to the ADL was motivated by political expediency...

[IndianaGreen]

93. One caveat, the ADL has done a very good job of combating anti-Semitism

One caveat, the ADL has done a very good job of combating anti-Semitism (which is very real and that is on the rise). Abe Foxman is another matter altogether. On several occasions, Foxman has used his position at ADL to push for a rightwing agenda and to defend corporate interests overseas.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[still_one]

53. finkelstein, a real POS, whose own parents were in Concentration Camps

Gee, lets see how many more threads can be created to try and minimize the holocaust

[and-justice-for-all]

27. I guess apartheid would have been more acceptable??

He said "A" and not "The" holocaust.

He should not have apologized.

[mule_train]

29. No, Israelies are kind of touchy about that word too, after Carter's book n/t

[still_one]

54. I wonder why this appology triggers these reactions from you? /nt

[Alcibiades]

65. Exactly!

I'm a little surprised no one's quoted the dictionary on this one:

hol⋅o⋅caust

–noun
1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
Origin:
1200–50; ME < LL holocaustum (Vulgate) < Gk holókauston (Septuagint), neut. of holókaustos burnt whole.

The Holocaust is the Holocaust; anything else is a holocaust. It's a noun, and a proper noun.

I'm sure Representative Grayson knows he used the word properly and that it does not call for an apology. It's also likely that Jews in his district know that he is himself a Jew and probably are not too bothered by his use of the word "holocaust." On the other hand, if you want to ask for sensitivity from others, it's good to show some yourself.

[and-justice-for-all]

106. correct..I agree with you..nt

[mule_train]

31. AIPAC had congress members scared to death

so it doesnt take much to get them to do a 'drop and grovel' drill for related issues

[still_one]

55. Gee, now you bring up AIPAC, which by the way ISN'T the anti-defamation league

either. You seem to be very sensitive yourself about this subject, and I wonder why?

[rockymountaindem]

66. These threads always bring out the usual suspects n/t

[TygrBright]

32. Thus proving that he is perfectly capable of apologizing...

...when he feels that something he said or did caused distress or harm to innocent parties, however inadvertently.

Using the term "holocaust" loosely in a public rhetorical forum IS offensive to millions of Jews, both in America and around the world. Whether he agrees with their claimed ownership of the term or not, he clearly did not intend to press that particular button for them. And so he apologizes.

Smart several ways:

He doesn't want to alienate whatever liberal Jewish constituents he has.

He wants to demonstrate that when he makes a mistake, he can acknowledge it and apologize for it, thereby emphasizing that his remarks about Republican members of Congress in connection with health care reform are not in any way wrong.

He wants to emphasize that he is not just a grandstanding demagogue who relies on shock and offensiveness to make his point.

This is one smart man.

appreciatively,
Bright

[cali]

80. nail meet hammer. well said, bright.

[Aragorn]

33. oh come on!

It appears to me that this apology is just a good old-fashioned smart-aleck remark by the good old-fashioned smart-aleck guy.

"Apologize? Well, I thought about it long and hard and the only thing I could think of that might have been offensive was..."

If this interpretation offends anyone - EXCUZZE MEEEE !

[Quantess]

35. IF an apology was warranted for anything he said, that is the only part.

I think it's sort of classy to apologize about using the word holocaust. But he better not apologize for anything else!

[Ian David]

46. Agreed on all points. n/t

[1776Forever]

36. To those that don't know Cong. Grayson is Jewish. I don't think he meant to hurt anyone!

It is just that is all "they" have to yell about.

Check it out here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grayson

[fascisthunter]

105. lol...thank you

I was wondering if anyone else here realized or knew this.

[ngant17]

37. a holocaust should not have an ethno-centric meaning

and under a completely normal situation, I wouldn't think an apology would be necessary. However, Grayson doesn't need to give the Rethugs more ammunition to attack him, so it would be politically expedient to retreat and cover his weak flank on this issue. The last thing I'd want to see is more of those looney rightwingers carrying Nazi banners and the "Obama is a fascist" crowd, cat-calls, bringing handguns and assault rifles to public events, etc. They want more gasoline to pour on their fires.

But the point was well-taken, and he certainly put it into a perspective which should wake us up concerning the on-going severity that has energized the health care debate.

[Ian David]

42. That's a minor point and a nice gesture on his part.

I don't think any Republican, however, has apologized for calling abortion a "holocaust" though.

[Blandocyte]

50. Apologize! Apologize!

What a bunch of crybabies we've become in the U.S. Sorry.

[JerseygirlCT]

56. Deftly done, I think. nt

[Vidar]

64. A perfectly appropriate apology--not the one I was afraid of.

[scarface2004]

68. he conceded it was not a great choice of words.

other than that grayson can keep pouring it on!!!!

[Fearless]

70. Have I ever mentioned how much I "dislike" the "politically correct"??

:banghead:

[AzNick]

71. "holocaust" vs "Holocaust"

With a big H it is the murder of not 6 million Jews, but 11 million people. Not only Jews (who were a majority) but also political opponents, homosexuals, handicapped people and war prisoners.

It does not belong to the Jewish people.

A holocaust with no capital "H" is a common noun which perfectly describes what is happening now and which Grayson brought up and he should not apologize.

[Ter]

75. A holocaust is just that, a holocaust

Since the dawn of time, there have been several holocausts. In fact, the worst one was the mass execution of some 30 million Chinese peasantry in the 12th century or so. I hate it that the only one that gets recognized is the one from the 30's and 40's. Why? It's almost like it's trademarked with a capital "H".

[cali]

81. Interesting. Why do you hate it? It doesn't minimize that other

terrible genocides have taken place. Your hate seems a trifle bizarre.

[Ter]

102. I hate it because all mass execution is bad

One should not get more attention than another because one group has more clout. All are tragedies of humanity.

[Klukie]

84. The recognition of the 1930's Holocaust is appropriate simply because it was the 1930's

and the fact that it took place in a European setting. The fact that such atrocities could take place in a supposedly more educated and enlightened society is exactly why this Holocaust demands its "Trademark". Sorry...you fail because you can't see the difference.

[Douglas Carpenter]

82. I think it is best to avoid using words that may unnecessarily cause offense

There are lots of words that might very well cause offense, that in and of themselves are likely to cause offense and serve little or no useful purpose in making ones point.

For example, some might think referring to African-Americans as "colored" is not pejorative in itself. In the somewhat distant past it was considered a perfectly acceptable way of referring to African-Americans and the word is still used in some parts of the world to describe people with mixed African ancestry. But in the United States the term is generally not appreciated by African-Americans. So therefore, it is only reasonable to stick to terms such as black or African-American and avoid using the word colored for the simple reason that it may very well cause offense and serve no useful purpose.

Another example is the term, Islamo-fascist to describe extremist, fundamentalist Muslims. Some might feel that the term, "Islamo-fascist" describes a particular type of extremist person of Islamic persuasion and is not intended as an attack on all Muslims. Nonetheless, most Muslims do find the phrase offensive - because it tends to be used by Westerners with an agenda that most Muslims find hostile and it can sound in Muslim ears as if one is calling Muslims in general fascist.

So, if the word, "holocaust" causes offense among many Jewish people who may feel that the word minimizes the true horror of THE Holocaust, it is simple enough - not to use it.

Other than that one criticism, I think Representative Alan Grayson has been doing a wonderful service of standing up and fighting back. I really did love his description of the Republicans in Congress as "a bunch of foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging Neanderthals". Who could possibly take offense at that?

[Mosby]

100. +1

[wordpix]

85. well, when thousands die each year b/c they can't afford health care,

the situation is not exactly comparable to the Nazi Holocaust but these people are still dead due to a ruthless, efficient regime aiming to get (and steal) great wealth and power as quickly as possible on the backs of others.

There IS a parallel.

[cali]

88. yeah, the way the number of fatal car accidents is a parallel.

In other words, it's tenuous. I don't particularly care one way or another if people want to call the victims of our current healthcare system victims of a holocaust. I don't think that's the accurate descriptor but hey, go for it. As for there being any meaningful parallel to the Nazi Holocaust, I don't think it's apparent here.

[IndianaGreen]

91. Rightwingers have shamelessly exploited the Holocaust for their own ends, and they never apologize

Abe Foxman is a rightwing shill, always pushing for a rightwing agenda even in Latin America. What Foxman does not want you to know is that rightwingers have shamelessly exploited the Holocaust in order to push their political agenda and silence their critics.

When the Holocaust is used to whip war fever against Iran, as it was on lead up to Iraq war, or when the Holocaust is exploited by successive Israeli governments to keep their country in a permanent state of war and Occupation of Arab lands, it diminishes the Holocaust itself.

Sep 26, 2009 22:30

Channel 2: Livni criticizes Netanyahu for invoking Holocaust at UN

By GIL HOFFMAN

Kadima leader Tzipi Livni became the first Israeli politician to criticize Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's landmark speech to the United Nations in an interview she gave on Saturday afternoon to Channel 2.

Livni said that Netanyahu made a mistake when he invoked the horrors of the Holocaust in his criticism of Holocaust-denying Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

She said the comparison could harm Israel's diplomatic efforts and make Israelis question their security.

"We have to be careful not to encourage the world to think that Israel was established because of the Holocaust," Livni said. "When Obama said so in Egypt, there was a justified uproar. It is wrong to compare any event in history to the Holocaust, because it minimizes the most horrible historic event that happened to the Jewish people. It also makes Israeli citizens feel less secure. The Jews of Israel in 2009 are not the Jews of Europe in 1939, and I've said this to Netanyahu."

Jerusalem Post

[dysfunctional press]

103. i'm glad that i waited before considering sending him money....

because there's a $25 fee to stop payment on a check.

[Liberation Angel]

104. What is a holocaust?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Etymology and use of the term

Main article: Names of the Holocaust

The term holocaust originally derived from the Greek word holókauston, meaning a " whole (holos) burnt (kaustos)" sacrificial offering to a god. Its Latin form (holocaustum) was first used with specific reference to a massacre of Jews by the chroniclers Roger of Howden and Richard of Devizes in the 1190s. For hundreds of years, the word holocaust was used in English to denote massive sacrifices and great slaughters or massacres. During World War II, the word was used to describe Nazi atrocities regardless of whether the victims were Jews or non-Jews. Since the 1960s, the term has come to be used by scholars and popular writers to refer exclusively to the genocide of Jews.

The biblical word Shoah (שוא? (also spelled Sho'ah and Shoa), meaning "calamity," became the standard Hebrew term for the Holocaust as early as the 1940s. Shoah is preferred by many Jews for a number of reasons, including the theologically offensive nature of the word holocaust, as a Greek pagan custom.

Historical usage of Holocaust, Shoah, and Final Solution

The word holocaust has been used since the 18th century to refer to the violent deaths of a large number of people. For example, Winston Churchill and other contemporaneous writers used it before World War II to describe the Armenian Genocide of World War I. Since the 1950s its use has increasingly been restricted, with its usage now mainly used as a proper noun to describe the Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany.

Holocaust was adopted as a translation of Shoah—a Hebrew word connoting catastrophe, calamity, disaster, and destruction—which was used in 1940 in Jerusalem in a booklet called Sho'at Yehudei Polin, and translated as The Holocaust of the Jews of Poland. Shoah had earlier been used in the context of the Nazis as a translation of catastrophe; for example, in 1934, Chaim Weizmann told the Zionist Action Committee that Hitler's rise to power was an "unvorhergesehene Katastrophe, etwa ein neuer Weltkrieg" ("an unforeseen catastrophe, perhaps even a new world war"); the Hebrew press translated Katastrophe as Shoah. In the spring of 1942, the Jerusalem historian BenZion Dinur (Dinaburg) used Shoah in a book published by the United Aid Committee for the Jews in Poland to describe the extermination of Europe's Jews, calling it a "catastrophe" that symbolized the unique situation of the Jewish people The word Shoah was chosen in Israel to describe the Holocaust, the term institutionalized by the Knesset on April 12, 1951, when it established Yom Ha-Shoah Ve Mered Ha-Getaot, the national day of remembrance. In the 1950s, Yad Vashem was routinely translating this into English as "the Disaster"; at that time, holocaust was often used to mean the conflagration of much of humanity in a nuclear war. Since then, Yad Vashem has changed its practice; the word Holocaust, usually now capitalized, has come to refer principally to the genocide of the European Jews.

[Politicub]

107. What has Abe Foxman said in support of a public option? Nothing?

At least he has a google news alert for holocaust and can jump all over the person who dares to utter the word. We're so much better off that he has said "naughty, naughty" to Grayson.

Glad good ol' Abe is looking out for the little guy

/sarcasm

[harvey007]

112. No one owns the word "holocaust"

Rep. Grayson did not have to apologize to anyone for anything he said.


p.s. if you see one of those "You Lie" bumperstickers on some jerkwad's car, just change the L to a D.

"You Die" is what the Republicans are saying to Americans who don't have health insurance.